On Jun 23, 9:44=A0am, Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-I...@On-My- Web-Site.com> wrote:> On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 08:50:40 -0700 (PDT), linnix > > > > > > > > > > <m...@linnix.info-for.us> wrote: > >On Jun 23, 8:13=A0am, Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-I...@On-My=-> >Web-Site.com> wrote: > >> On Wed, 22 Jun 2011 20:16:03 -0700 (PDT), linnix > > >> <m...@linnix.info-for.us> wrote: > >> >On Jun 22, 7:33=A0pm, Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-I...@On=-My-> >> >Web-Site.com> wrote: > >> >> On Wed, 22 Jun 2011 18:46:07 -0700 (PDT), linnix > > >> >> <m...@linnix.info-for.us> wrote: > >> >> >On Jun 22, 3:52 pm, ehsjr <eh...@nospamverizon.net> wrote: > >> >> >> linnix wrote: > > >> >> >> <snip> > > >> >> >> > Yes, i am trying to understand where is that magical voltage s=pike> >> >> >> > coming from. > > >> >> >> L*dI/dT where I is whatever current was flowing into the battery > >> >> >> when it was disconnected. > > >> >> >> Ed > > >> >> >The load voltage dropped from 12V to 9V, so current was flowing ou=t of> >> >> >the battery when connected. > > >> >I am just saying your guess (in) is as good as mine (out). > > >> >> I'm beginning to seriously question your abilities as an electrical > >> >> engineer :-( > > >> >> Do you work for Larkin ?:-) > > >> >i guess you guys are not really interested in real discussions. =A0Lo=ok,> >> >the alternator was (and still is) running very weak in idle. =A0It mi=ght> >> >be defective or there might be other issues. =A0The output voltage co=uld> >> >run above the battery, but most likely below it. =A0There are enough > >> >resistive load to clamp down the voltage as well. =A0Yes, there could=be> >> >damage to something, but so could static. > > >> >This is not something by design, =A0I am just trying to track down th=e> >> >problem. > > >> You keep ignoring the fact that an alternator is a current-controlled > >> current source. =A0 > > >> You keep hanging your hat on voltage and are not understanding how > >> this works. =A0 > > >> What is the voltage at engine idle, alternator connected to battery, > >> no accessories on? > > >12.4V with headlight. =A0Headlight is on all the time. =A0Did not try it > >without. > > >> (Though you may have already killed your regulator by running without > >> battery.) > > >Brand new purchased and installed. =A0Measured before disconnecting > > (1) Check the cells of the battery with a hydrometer. =A0You may have a > shorted cell.It's fine when the battery was moved to the Corolla. 14.2V at idle and 12.7V charged. This one year old battery and the six years old battery both work fine when moved to the Corolla.> > (2) Where does the voltage go to when you rev up the engine?14.2V. They tested the alternator at the shop, found no problem. But i cannot return it. They also suggested that the alternator is under powered for the car. Of course, they did not mention that when i ordered it. My 2000 model has a 80A alternator. 2002 model has 100A alternator. All i am asking here is for confirmation of under powered alternator, before spending $200 to $300 for a 150A or $500 to $600 for a 250A alternator.
Alternator problem
Started by ●June 18, 2011
Reply by ●June 23, 20112011-06-23
Reply by ●June 23, 20112011-06-23
On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 12:12:32 -0700 (PDT), linnix <me@linnix.info-for.us> wrote: I've spent several minutes trying to decide whether to enter into this flame-encrusted thread but as a veteran of hundreds of alternator rebuilds, modifications and rewinds, maybe I can help.>They tested the alternator at the shop, found no problem. But i >cannot return it. They also suggested that the alternator is under >powered for the car. Of course, they did not mention that when i >ordered it. My 2000 model has a 80A alternator. 2002 model has 100A >alternator. > >All i am asking here is for confirmation of under powered alternator, >before spending $200 to $300 for a 150A or $500 to $600 for a 250A >alternator.It sounds like the alternator is too small but there are a couple of conditions that can give the same symptoms. Let's do some testing. First off, a question. Are you sure that your alternator contains a regulator? I ask that because many manufacturers, starting in about '96 went to direct field drive out of the PCM. Saves the cost of a regulator and associated wiring. If your car is so designed then changing alternators will have no effect if the PCM output is malfunctioning for any reason. Chrysler products are infamous for that. I can't count the number of external regulators I've adapted to Chrysler vehicles after something smoked the PCM output. OK, if you're sure that you have an internal regulator, the next thing to do is to measure the field drive at idle. You can usually reach through the back of the alternator with a DVM probe and find the hot brush. If the alternator is overloaded or if a diode is bad then the field will be driven to within a few millivolts of the available system voltage. If your system voltage is 10.6 volts at idle then the field voltage should be just a little less, say 10.5 volts. I use a standard Fluke DVM probe with heat-shrink over all but the very tip to make this measurement. If the field drive is NOT near the system voltage then the voltage regulator or the wiring that feeds it is bad. You can easily check the voltage supplied to the alternator from the switched 12 volts to determine which is the case. Let's assume that the field is being fully driven. Then the problem narrows down to either an undersized alternator or a bad diode. One bad diode turns the alternator into a single phase generator. It can usually generate enough output at high speeds but the idle and low speed output is greatly reduced. The quickest way to check for a bad diode is with a DC clamp-on ammeter. Clamp the alternator output lead. If the output is about half of the alternator's rated output then one or more diodes are bad. If the current is at the alternator's rated output then the alternator is too small. If you don't have a clamp meter then you can get a magnetic meter for a few dollars from the car parts store. This meter has a groove in the back that the wire lays in and works on the principle that the magnetic field generated by the current flow attracts a magnetic pointer. The measurement is pretty crude and the smallest scale division is typically 10 amps but it's good enough for this purpose. Another indication of a bad diode is low frequency ripple audible in the car's stereo system. This frequency will, of course, change with RPM. I should note here that modern alternators are not designed to continuously output their nominal rating. You can thank CAFE for that. Most replacement alternators come with a package insert (I know that Autozone and NAPA ones do) warning you to charge the battery before installing the new alternator. If you install the new alternator with a discharged battery, there is a very good chance of smoking a diode fairly quickly. There's a good chance that you inadvertently smoked the new alternator within a few minutes of installing it. That's why I'm taking you through this long troubleshooting process. Hope this helps. If you have any questions, feel free to ask. Might be a good idea to start a new thread, given how cluttered this one is with flaming and bickering. John http://www.neon-john.com
Reply by ●June 24, 20112011-06-24
On Jun 23, 5:08=A0pm, Neon John <n...@never.com> wrote:> On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 12:12:32 -0700 (PDT), linnix > > <m...@linnix.info-for.us> wrote: > > I've spent several minutes trying to decide whether to enter into this > flame-encrusted thread but as a veteran of hundreds of alternator > rebuilds, modifications and rewinds, maybe I can help. =A0 > > >They tested the alternator at the shop, found no problem. =A0But i > >cannot return it. =A0They also suggested that the alternator is under > >powered for the car. =A0Of course, they did not mention that when i > >ordered it. =A0My 2000 model has a 80A alternator. =A02002 model has 100=A> >alternator. > > >All i am asking here is for confirmation of under powered alternator, > >before spending $200 to $300 for a 150A or $500 to $600 for a 250A > >alternator. > > It sounds like the alternator is too small but there are a couple of > conditions that can give the same symptoms. =A0Let's do some testing. > > First off, a question. =A0Are you sure that your alternator contains a > regulator? =A0I ask that because many manufacturers, starting in about > '96 went to direct field drive out of the PCM. =A0Saves the cost of a > regulator and associated wiring. > > If your car is so designed then changing alternators will have no > effect if the PCM output is malfunctioning for any reason. =A0Chrysler > products are infamous for that. =A0I can't count the number of external > regulators I've adapted to Chrysler vehicles after something smoked > the PCM output. > > OK, if you're sure that you have an internal regulator, the next thing > to do is to measure the field drive at idle. =A0You can usually reach > through the back of the alternator with a DVM probe and find the hot > brush. =A0If the alternator is overloaded or if a diode is bad then the > field will be driven to within a few millivolts of the available > system voltage. =A0If your system voltage is 10.6 volts at idle then the > field voltage should be just a little less, say 10.5 volts. =A0I use a > standard Fluke DVM probe with heat-shrink over all but the very tip to > make this measurement. > > If the field drive is NOT near the system voltage then the voltage > regulator or the wiring that feeds it is bad. =A0You can easily check > the voltage supplied to the alternator from the switched 12 volts to > determine which is the case. > > Let's assume that the field is being fully driven. =A0Then the problem > narrows down to either an undersized alternator or a bad diode. =A0One > bad diode turns the alternator into a single phase generator. =A0It can > usually generate enough output at high speeds but the idle and low > speed output is greatly reduced. > > The quickest way to check for a bad diode is with a DC clamp-on > ammeter. =A0Clamp the alternator output lead. =A0If the output is about > half of the alternator's rated output then one or more diodes are bad. > If the current is at the alternator's rated output then the alternator > is too small. > > If you don't have a clamp meter then you can get a magnetic meter for > a few dollars from the car parts store. =A0This meter has a groove in > the back that the wire lays in and works on the principle that the > magnetic field generated by the current flow attracts a magnetic > pointer. =A0The measurement is pretty crude and the smallest scale > division is typically 10 amps but it's good enough for this purpose. > > Another indication of a bad diode is low frequency ripple audible in > the car's stereo system. =A0This frequency will, of course, change with > RPM. > > I should note here that modern alternators are not designed to > continuously output their nominal rating. =A0You can thank CAFE for > that. =A0Most replacement alternators come with a package insert (I know > that Autozone and NAPA ones do) warning you to charge the battery > before installing the new alternator. =A0 > > If you install the new alternator with a discharged battery, there is > a very good chance of smoking a diode fairly quickly. =A0There's a good > chance that you inadvertently smoked the new alternator within a few > minutes of installing it. =A0That's why I'm taking =A0you through this > long troubleshooting process. > > Hope this helps. =A0If =A0you have any questions, feel free to ask. =A0Mi=ght> be a good idea to start a new thread, given how cluttered this one is > with flaming and bickering. > > Johnhttp://www.neon-john.comThank you for your very professional posting. I am sure many of the flamers are very knowledgeable as well, and they do not behave that way in person. I am also guilty of over-reacting, and often response without thinking. My wife's Lexus have had this electrical problem for years, but it's getting critical and she threatens to buy a new one if not fixed. Lexus has almost every imagineable electrical features, including electrical seat warmers and timed auto headlight (stay on while walking away from the car). All these are nice but potential battery killer. She often drive short distance at night as well. With the undersized alternator, the battery would be discharging when stopped (idle) in traffic. I have to plug in wall charger to just maintain the battery. Thinking if the old one was defective, I finally decided to get a new one. Actually, both behaves the same with very low voltage (12.4V) at idle, even when the battery was charged to 12.6V or 12.7V. With the battery charged to 12.6V and the new alternator installed. I still got 12.4V at idle. I did a quick check with the battery disconnected and started the flame war. I took the new alternator back to the shop for testing. They did not find anything wrong. So, now i have two good undersized alternators. Yes, the alternator has internal regulator and blocking diode. While searching for info, several people mentioned upsizing the alternator. I also notice that Toyota upsized the current from 80A to 100A in 2002 model of Lexus ES300. They certainly suspected problems internally, without admitting and risking a recall. I will probably get a 150A alternator just in case.
Reply by ●June 24, 20112011-06-24
Send your $200 to me and I'll send you some magic pixie dust to spread over your current alternator. Otherwise GET THE HELL OUT OF THIS GROUP and let us get on with some real problems, troll. Jim On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 12:12:32 -0700 (PDT), linnix <me@linnix.info-for.us> wrote:>On Jun 23, 9:44�am, Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-I...@On-My- >Web-Site.com> wrote: >> On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 08:50:40 -0700 (PDT), linnix >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> <m...@linnix.info-for.us> wrote: >> >On Jun 23, 8:13�am, Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-I...@On-My- >> >Web-Site.com> wrote: >> >> On Wed, 22 Jun 2011 20:16:03 -0700 (PDT), linnix >> >> >> <m...@linnix.info-for.us> wrote: >> >> >On Jun 22, 7:33�pm, Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-I...@On-My- >> >> >Web-Site.com> wrote: >> >> >> On Wed, 22 Jun 2011 18:46:07 -0700 (PDT), linnix >> >> >> >> <m...@linnix.info-for.us> wrote: >> >> >> >On Jun 22, 3:52 pm, ehsjr <eh...@nospamverizon.net> wrote: >> >> >> >> linnix wrote: >> >> >> >> >> <snip> >> >> >> >> >> > Yes, i am trying to understand where is that magical voltage spike >> >> >> >> > coming from. >> >> >> >> >> L*dI/dT where I is whatever current was flowing into the battery >> >> >> >> when it was disconnected. >> >> >> >> >> Ed >> >> >> >> >The load voltage dropped from 12V to 9V, so current was flowing out of >> >> >> >the battery when connected. >> >> >> >I am just saying your guess (in) is as good as mine (out). >> >> >> >> I'm beginning to seriously question your abilities as an electrical >> >> >> engineer :-( >> >> >> >> Do you work for Larkin ?:-) >> >> >> >i guess you guys are not really interested in real discussions. �Look, >> >> >the alternator was (and still is) running very weak in idle. �It might >> >> >be defective or there might be other issues. �The output voltage could >> >> >run above the battery, but most likely below it. �There are enough >> >> >resistive load to clamp down the voltage as well. �Yes, there could be >> >> >damage to something, but so could static. >> >> >> >This is not something by design, �I am just trying to track down the >> >> >problem. >> >> >> You keep ignoring the fact that an alternator is a current-controlled >> >> current source. � >> >> >> You keep hanging your hat on voltage and are not understanding how >> >> this works. � >> >> >> What is the voltage at engine idle, alternator connected to battery, >> >> no accessories on? >> >> >12.4V with headlight. �Headlight is on all the time. �Did not try it >> >without. >> >> >> (Though you may have already killed your regulator by running without >> >> battery.) >> >> >Brand new purchased and installed. �Measured before disconnecting >> >> (1) Check the cells of the battery with a hydrometer. �You may have a >> shorted cell. > >It's fine when the battery was moved to the Corolla. 14.2V at idle >and 12.7V charged. This one year old battery and the six years old >battery both work fine when moved to the Corolla. > >> >> (2) Where does the voltage go to when you rev up the engine? > >14.2V. > >They tested the alternator at the shop, found no problem. But i >cannot return it. They also suggested that the alternator is under >powered for the car. Of course, they did not mention that when i >ordered it. My 2000 model has a 80A alternator. 2002 model has 100A >alternator. > >All i am asking here is for confirmation of under powered alternator, >before spending $200 to $300 for a 150A or $500 to $600 for a 250A >alternator.
Reply by ●June 24, 20112011-06-24
On Wed, 22 Jun 2011 21:30:12 -0700 (PDT), linnix <me@linnix.info-for.us> wrote:>On Jun 22, 8:51=A0pm, josephkk <joseph_barr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: >> On Mon, 20 Jun 2011 14:43:19 -0700 (PDT), linnix =<m...@linnix.info-for.us>>> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >On Jun 20, 7:33=A0am, Jim Thompson =<To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-I...@On-My->> >Web-Site.com> wrote: >> >> On Sun, 19 Jun 2011 20:11:36 -0700 (PDT), linnix >> >> <snip> >> >> >I follow reasonable suggestions, like grounding the alternator =with>> >> >battery terminal, as the other poster said. =A0I just don't buy =the idea>> >> >of hundreds of volt surging into 20A to 30A of load. =A0When i >> >> >disconnected the battery, the head light dimmed, not brightened. ==A0So,>> >> >i am getting too little power, not too much. =A0Engineering is =about>> >> >trials and errors, and eliminating the unknowns, within reasons. ==A0I>> >> >don't claim to know everything about charging. >> >> >> You are rapidly proving you don't understand alternators. >> >> >So, you are saying the atlernator is dumping 400V * 30A or 12000W =into>> >the load? >> >> I tossed "ford load dump spec" at a search engine and found many >> fascinating things. >> >> Like: >> >> =EM_test_LD_200_datasheet.pdfhttp://www.emtest.com/products/overview_ld200= .php>> >> =And:http://www.electronicspoint.com/surviving-automotive-load-dump-t72383= ...> >Yes, absolutely, for normal alternator/regulator. But i have an >alternator that is generating voltage below the battery, and is slowly >draining and killing it.Hmm. And even at this point you do not consider that something else is abnormal? And still refuse to design an alternative regulator?
Reply by ●June 24, 20112011-06-24
On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 20:45:26 -0700, RST Engineering <jweir43@gmail.com> wrote:>Send your $200 to me and I'll send you some magic pixie dust to spread >over your current alternator. > >Otherwise GET THE HELL OUT OF THIS GROUP and let us get on with some >real problems, troll.Jeez, who peed in your Wheaties? Also, too, don't top post. -- Rich Webb Norfolk, VA
Reply by ●June 24, 20112011-06-24
linnix <me@linnix.info-for.us> wrote:>On Jun 23, 5:08=A0pm, Neon John <n...@never.com> wrote: >> On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 12:12:32 -0700 (PDT), linnix >> >> <m...@linnix.info-for.us> wrote: >> >> I've spent several minutes trying to decide whether to enter into this >> flame-encrusted thread but as a veteran of hundreds of alternator >> rebuilds, modifications and rewinds, maybe I can help. =A0 >> >> >They tested the alternator at the shop, found no problem. =A0But i >> >cannot return it. =A0They also suggested that the alternator is under >> >powered for the car. =A0Of course, they did not mention that when i >> >ordered it. =A0My 2000 model has a 80A alternator. =A02002 model has 100= >A >> >alternator. >> >> >> I should note here that modern alternators are not designed to >> continuously output their nominal rating. =A0You can thank CAFE for >> that. =A0Most replacement alternators come with a package insert (I know >> that Autozone and NAPA ones do) warning you to charge the battery >> before installing the new alternator. =A0Reminds me of the time I put a 2kW inverter in a car to power several computers. As a precaution I had the largest possible alternator and battery installed. In the first test run it started to smell a bit but that went away after a few km.>Thank you for your very professional posting. I am sure many of the >flamers are very knowledgeable as well, and they do not behave that >way in person. I am also guilty of over-reacting, and often response >without thinking. > >My wife's Lexus have had this electrical problem for years, but it's >getting critical and she threatens to buy a new one if not fixed. >Lexus has almost every imagineable electrical features, including >electrical seat warmers and timed auto headlight (stay on while >walking away from the car). All these are nice but potential battery >killer. She often drive short distance at night as well. With the >undersized alternator, the battery would be discharging when stopped >(idle) in traffic. I have to plug in wall charger to just maintain >the battery. > >Thinking if the old one was defective, I finally decided to get a new >one. Actually, both behaves the same with very low voltage (12.4V) at >idle, even when the battery was charged to 12.6V or 12.7V. With the >battery charged to 12.6V and the new alternator installed. I still >got 12.4V at idle. I did a quick check with the battery disconnected >and started the flame war.This still sounds to me like the field winding of the alternator is not driven properly. At idle you should have 13 to 14.5V depending on the car. Try to measure the current into the field winding first.>I took the new alternator back to the shop for testing. They did not >find anything wrong. So, now i have two good undersized alternators. >Yes, the alternator has internal regulator and blocking diode. While >searching for info, several people mentioned upsizing the alternator. >I also notice that Toyota upsized the current from 80A to 100A in 2002 >model of Lexus ES300. They certainly suspected problems internally, >without admitting and risking a recall. I will probably get a 150A >alternator just in case.You could also install the smaller pulley just to make sure. -- Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply indicates you are not using the right tools... nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.) --------------------------------------------------------------
Reply by ●June 24, 20112011-06-24
On Fri, 24 Jun 2011 15:22:25 GMT, nico@puntnl.niks (Nico Coesel) wrote:>linnix <me@linnix.info-for.us> wrote: > >>On Jun 23, 5:08=A0pm, Neon John <n...@never.com> wrote: >>> On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 12:12:32 -0700 (PDT), linnix >>> >>> <m...@linnix.info-for.us> wrote: >>> >>> I've spent several minutes trying to decide whether to enter into this >>> flame-encrusted thread but as a veteran of hundreds of alternator >>> rebuilds, modifications and rewinds, maybe I can help. =A0 >>> >>> >They tested the alternator at the shop, found no problem. =A0But i >>> >cannot return it. =A0They also suggested that the alternator is under >>> >powered for the car. =A0Of course, they did not mention that when i >>> >ordered it. =A0My 2000 model has a 80A alternator. =A02002 model has 100= >>A >>> >alternator. >>> >>> >>> I should note here that modern alternators are not designed to >>> continuously output their nominal rating. =A0You can thank CAFE for >>> that. =A0Most replacement alternators come with a package insert (I know >>> that Autozone and NAPA ones do) warning you to charge the battery >>> before installing the new alternator. =A0 > >Reminds me of the time I put a 2kW inverter in a car to power several >computers. As a precaution I had the largest possible alternator and >battery installed. In the first test run it started to smell a bit but >that went away after a few km. > >>Thank you for your very professional posting. I am sure many of the >>flamers are very knowledgeable as well, and they do not behave that >>way in person. I am also guilty of over-reacting, and often response >>without thinking. >> >>My wife's Lexus have had this electrical problem for years, but it's >>getting critical and she threatens to buy a new one if not fixed. >>Lexus has almost every imagineable electrical features, including >>electrical seat warmers and timed auto headlight (stay on while >>walking away from the car). All these are nice but potential battery >>killer. She often drive short distance at night as well. With the >>undersized alternator, the battery would be discharging when stopped >>(idle) in traffic. I have to plug in wall charger to just maintain >>the battery. >> >>Thinking if the old one was defective, I finally decided to get a new >>one. Actually, both behaves the same with very low voltage (12.4V) at >>idle, even when the battery was charged to 12.6V or 12.7V. With the >>battery charged to 12.6V and the new alternator installed. I still >>got 12.4V at idle. I did a quick check with the battery disconnected >>and started the flame war. > >This still sounds to me like the field winding of the alternator is >not driven properly. At idle you should have 13 to 14.5V depending on >the car. Try to measure the current into the field winding first. > >>I took the new alternator back to the shop for testing. They did not >>find anything wrong. So, now i have two good undersized alternators. >>Yes, the alternator has internal regulator and blocking diode. While >>searching for info, several people mentioned upsizing the alternator. >>I also notice that Toyota upsized the current from 80A to 100A in 2002 >>model of Lexus ES300. They certainly suspected problems internally, >>without admitting and risking a recall. I will probably get a 150A >>alternator just in case. > >You could also install the smaller pulley just to make sure.I tend to think dedicated regulator, thus whoever mentioned control via the ECU may be on to something. I'd download a wiring diagram for this dude and take a look at some waveforms. Personally, I'd just roll my own regulator... I've done that before ;-) ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Reply by ●June 24, 20112011-06-24
On Jun 24, 12:51=A0am, josephkk <joseph_barr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:> On Wed, 22 Jun 2011 21:30:12 -0700 (PDT), linnix <m...@linnix.info-for.us= > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > >On Jun 22, 8:51=A0pm, josephkk <joseph_barr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > >> On Mon, 20 Jun 2011 14:43:19 -0700 (PDT), linnix <m...@linnix.info-for=.us>> >> wrote: > > >> >On Jun 20, 7:33=A0am, Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-I...@On=-My-> >> >Web-Site.com> wrote: > >> >> On Sun, 19 Jun 2011 20:11:36 -0700 (PDT), linnix > > >> <snip> > >> >> >I follow reasonable suggestions, like grounding the alternator wit=h> >> >> >battery terminal, as the other poster said. =A0I just don't buy th=e idea> >> >> >of hundreds of volt surging into 20A to 30A of load. =A0When i > >> >> >disconnected the battery, the head light dimmed, not brightened. ==A0So,> >> >> >i am getting too little power, not too much. =A0Engineering is abo=ut> >> >> >trials and errors, and eliminating the unknowns, within reasons. ==A0I> >> >> >don't claim to know everything about charging. > > >> >> You are rapidly proving you don't understand alternators. > > >> >So, you are saying the atlernator is dumping 400V * 30A or 12000W int=o> >> >the load? > > >> I tossed "ford load dump spec" at a search engine and found many > >> fascinating things. > > >> Like: > > >> EM_test_LD_200_datasheet.pdfhttp://www.emtest.com/products/overview_ld=200.php> > >> And:http://www.electronicspoint.com/surviving-automotive-load-dump-t72=383...> > >Yes, absolutely, for normal alternator/regulator. =A0But i have an > >alternator that is generating voltage below the battery, and is slowly > >draining and killing it. > > Hmm. =A0And even at this point you do not consider that something else is > abnormal?Yes, it is possible. But upsizing the alternator seems to be the easiest solution.> And still refuse to design an alternative regulator?Yes, i would, to my own car. But "customer and boss" does not allow any alternation to the car.
Reply by ●June 24, 20112011-06-24
On Fri, 24 Jun 2011 09:52:17 -0700 (PDT), linnix <me@linnix.info-for.us> wrote:>On Jun 24, 12:51�am, josephkk <joseph_barr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: >> On Wed, 22 Jun 2011 21:30:12 -0700 (PDT), linnix <m...@linnix.info-for.us> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >On Jun 22, 8:51�pm, josephkk <joseph_barr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: >> >> On Mon, 20 Jun 2011 14:43:19 -0700 (PDT), linnix <m...@linnix.info-for.us> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >On Jun 20, 7:33�am, Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-I...@On-My- >> >> >Web-Site.com> wrote: >> >> >> On Sun, 19 Jun 2011 20:11:36 -0700 (PDT), linnix >> >> >> <snip> >> >> >> >I follow reasonable suggestions, like grounding the alternator with >> >> >> >battery terminal, as the other poster said. �I just don't buy the idea >> >> >> >of hundreds of volt surging into 20A to 30A of load. �When i >> >> >> >disconnected the battery, the head light dimmed, not brightened. �So, >> >> >> >i am getting too little power, not too much. �Engineering is about >> >> >> >trials and errors, and eliminating the unknowns, within reasons. �I >> >> >> >don't claim to know everything about charging. >> >> >> >> You are rapidly proving you don't understand alternators. >> >> >> >So, you are saying the atlernator is dumping 400V * 30A or 12000W into >> >> >the load? >> >> >> I tossed "ford load dump spec" at a search engine and found many >> >> fascinating things. >> >> >> Like: >> >> >> EM_test_LD_200_datasheet.pdfhttp://www.emtest.com/products/overview_ld200.php >> >> >> And:http://www.electronicspoint.com/surviving-automotive-load-dump-t72383... >> >> >Yes, absolutely, for normal alternator/regulator. �But i have an >> >alternator that is generating voltage below the battery, and is slowly >> >draining and killing it. >> >> Hmm. �And even at this point you do not consider that something else is >> abnormal? > >Yes, it is possible. But upsizing the alternator seems to be the >easiest solution. > >> And still refuse to design an alternative regulator? > >Yes, i would, to my own car. But "customer and boss" does not allow >any alternation to the car."Below the battery": Drain should _only_ be the field current... measure it already! ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
