On a sunny day (Sat, 16 Sep 2023 08:04:49 -0700) it happened John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in <crgbgilsv8kptrpigj9h5pnotddsq6liha@4ax.com>:>On Sat, 16 Sep 2023 04:29:00 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen ><langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote: > >>l�rdag den 16. september 2023 kl. 13.19.58 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin: >>> On Sat, 16 Sep 2023 11:51:56 +0100, Martin Brown >>> <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote: >>> >>> >On 15/09/2023 16:39, Don Y wrote: >>> >> On 9/15/2023 3:21 AM, Martin Brown wrote: >>> >>> We must surely have a lot more rain than in the US and yet our phone >>> >>> lines generally do hold up for ADSL unless it gets very very wet (as >>> >>> in flooding). Being on the wrong side of the beck doesn't help. >>> >> >>> >> Are your lines fed from above (e.g., flying off telephone poles)? >>> >> Or, do they travel below grade, surfacing just before entering the >>> >> subscriber's premises? >>> > >>> >Modern build is usually the latter but where I am the cables travel >>> >underground from the exchange to the village and then up onto poles >>> >inside the village. We are a bit unusual in that our lines are archaic >>> >"Exchange Only" lines with no cabinet between us and the exchange. >>> > >>> >Electricity also comes in overhead on the same set of poles which makes >>> >it difficult for the telco - they have to bring in a cherry picker to >>> >work on their signal level cables at height because of the live wires! >>> >> >>> >> Water frequently infiltrates our buried cables (including the 100+ pair >>> >> that runs the length of the street, below grade). So, a (rare!) rain >>> >> can leave you with a noisey line that resolves itself BEFORE the lineman >>> >> can get around to actually checking the line, in person. >>> > >>> >That is pretty much the situation here except that it is a lot wetter >>> >and the groundwater is mildly alkaline and so corrosive. In addition >>> >tree branches can strip the insulation off the overhead cable runs which >>> >makes it very noisy and can break conductors. >>> > >>> >> Connections to the premises wiring are done above ground in a >>> >> "telephone network interface" box: the utility's feed is >>> >> terminated in a pair (typically) of RJ11 jacks. The premises >>> >> wiring presents as one or more RJ11 plugs. So, a subscriber can >>> >> "unplug" their wiring from the network to allow the utility >>> >> to check THEIR wiring without the subscriber's impacting the test. >>> > >>> >That is how modern installs are done with a so called master socket so >>> >you can isolate the house wiring and plug into the test socket. You are >>> >supposed to do this before reporting a fault. My master POTS socket is >>> >"conveniently" located at the far end of the loft where the old copper >>> >cable enters the house. The new fibre install comes from a different >>> >pole and has a splice box at ground level with a fibre up to my office. >>> > >>> >Prehistoric ones were little more than a 4 way terminal block with a >>> >Bakelite soap bar shaped cover over the top. >>> > >>> >>> They connector housings do fail from time to time but they seem to >>> >>> last 5 or 10 years before they fail badly again. I'm not sure how they >>> >>> protect wet wires from corrosion though. There are places near me with >>> >>> hybrid copper meets aluminium phone wiring which partially rectifies >>> >>> ADSL. So bad that some don't even get 256kbps. Peer to peer microwave >>> >>> has been claiming these dead zones for some time - farmers need it. >>> >> >>> >> Our problem is with the hundreds of feet of 100(?) pair cable >>> >> that feeds the neighborhood from the main junction box at the entrance to >>> >> the subdivision. Lots of places for a partial short or line imbalance >>> >> to present. >>> > >>> >It is almost invariably the wet corroded joints that cause trouble or >>> >rodents chewing off the insulation. Ours are incredibly fragile now and >>> >any disturbance from working on a fault tends to break something else. >>> > >>> >It got so bad at one point that they had to ship in additional POTS >>> >engineers from outside the county to get on top of pending repairs. >>> > >>> >I haven't been able to find a picture of our underground configuration >>> >(it is quite rare now) but this one of a normal passive BT cabinet isn't >>> >too dissimilar if you image no supporting structure and the whole lot of >>> >multicoloured knitting stuffed randomly into a double width manhole. >>> > >>> >https://www.reddit.com/r/cablegore/comments/333ek9/inside_a_bt_telephone_cabinet/ >>> > >>> >>> There may be a slight difference in texture which is what seems to >>> >>> guide their choice of exactly what to nibble. We solved our problems >>> >>> on radio telescope cable runs by flooding the ducts with dry nitrogen. >>> >> >>> >> Various "burrowing creatures" are more of a problem with the >>> >> AC mains (which are also below grade). Part of the service >>> >> procedure for each of the ground-mounted transformers is to >>> >> fill the exposed earth *inside* the enclosure with mortar >>> >> and wet it to form a bit of a crust to discourage the critters >>> >> from gaining entry to the high voltage wiring (fried critters!). >>> >> >>> >> Packrats tend to enjoy feasting on the wire in automobiles, >>> >> accessing that from the underside. >>> > >>> >Apparently pine martens are keen on BMW brake hose and wiring insulation >>> >(and they are now moving into my area of the UK). >>> > >>> >https://www.englishforum.ch/daily-life/261913-pine-martens-brake-pipes.html >>> > >>> >> >>> I collect pictures of disgusting wiring. >>> >>> https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/rdbz4ayuw0w60ch1f4dot/h?rlkey=k14c22nkj1leclay7itlpk28z&dl=0 >> >>looks like artwork made by craftsmen compared to the stuff you see from India > >San Francico has stunning views that are usually ruined by hideous >wiring. It's being undergrounded, which should be mostly done in a >couple of hundred years.SF likely will not exist in a couple of years... I was just reading that California is going to sue five big oil and gas companies for heating up earth: ExxonMobil,BP, Chevron, ConocoPhillips and Shell. They should be grateful to those companies that made California liveable and the industry and jobs they created, The complete insane climate idiots that infected politics using CO2 witch hunts means the end of civilization.
speed test
Started by ●September 12, 2023
Reply by ●September 17, 20232023-09-17
Reply by ●September 17, 20232023-09-17
On Saturday, September 16, 2023 at 10:05:07 PM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:> On a sunny day (Sat, 16 Sep 2023 08:04:49 -0700) it happened John Larkin > <jjla...@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in > <crgbgilsv8kptrpig...@4ax.com>: > >On Sat, 16 Sep 2023 04:29:00 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen > ><lang...@fonz.dk> wrote: > > > >>lørdag den 16. september 2023 kl. 13.19.58 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin: > >>> On Sat, 16 Sep 2023 11:51:56 +0100, Martin Brown > >>> <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote: > >>> > >>> >On 15/09/2023 16:39, Don Y wrote: > >>> >> On 9/15/2023 3:21 AM, Martin Brown wrote: > >>> >>> We must surely have a lot more rain than in the US and yet our phone > >>> >>> lines generally do hold up for ADSL unless it gets very very wet (as > >>> >>> in flooding). Being on the wrong side of the beck doesn't help. > >>> >> > >>> >> Are your lines fed from above (e.g., flying off telephone poles)? > >>> >> Or, do they travel below grade, surfacing just before entering the > >>> >> subscriber's premises? > >>> > > >>> >Modern build is usually the latter but where I am the cables travel > >>> >underground from the exchange to the village and then up onto poles > >>> >inside the village. We are a bit unusual in that our lines are archaic > >>> >"Exchange Only" lines with no cabinet between us and the exchange. > >>> > > >>> >Electricity also comes in overhead on the same set of poles which makes > >>> >it difficult for the telco - they have to bring in a cherry picker to > >>> >work on their signal level cables at height because of the live wires! > >>> >> > >>> >> Water frequently infiltrates our buried cables (including the 100+ pair > >>> >> that runs the length of the street, below grade). So, a (rare!) rain > >>> >> can leave you with a noisey line that resolves itself BEFORE the lineman > >>> >> can get around to actually checking the line, in person. > >>> > > >>> >That is pretty much the situation here except that it is a lot wetter > >>> >and the groundwater is mildly alkaline and so corrosive. In addition > >>> >tree branches can strip the insulation off the overhead cable runs which > >>> >makes it very noisy and can break conductors. > >>> > > >>> >> Connections to the premises wiring are done above ground in a > >>> >> "telephone network interface" box: the utility's feed is > >>> >> terminated in a pair (typically) of RJ11 jacks. The premises > >>> >> wiring presents as one or more RJ11 plugs. So, a subscriber can > >>> >> "unplug" their wiring from the network to allow the utility > >>> >> to check THEIR wiring without the subscriber's impacting the test. > >>> > > >>> >That is how modern installs are done with a so called master socket so > >>> >you can isolate the house wiring and plug into the test socket. You are > >>> >supposed to do this before reporting a fault. My master POTS socket is > >>> >"conveniently" located at the far end of the loft where the old copper > >>> >cable enters the house. The new fibre install comes from a different > >>> >pole and has a splice box at ground level with a fibre up to my office. > >>> > > >>> >Prehistoric ones were little more than a 4 way terminal block with a > >>> >Bakelite soap bar shaped cover over the top. > >>> > > >>> >>> They connector housings do fail from time to time but they seem to > >>> >>> last 5 or 10 years before they fail badly again. I'm not sure how they > >>> >>> protect wet wires from corrosion though. There are places near me with > >>> >>> hybrid copper meets aluminium phone wiring which partially rectifies > >>> >>> ADSL. So bad that some don't even get 256kbps. Peer to peer microwave > >>> >>> has been claiming these dead zones for some time - farmers need it. > >>> >> > >>> >> Our problem is with the hundreds of feet of 100(?) pair cable > >>> >> that feeds the neighborhood from the main junction box at the entrance to > >>> >> the subdivision. Lots of places for a partial short or line imbalance > >>> >> to present. > >>> > > >>> >It is almost invariably the wet corroded joints that cause trouble or > >>> >rodents chewing off the insulation. Ours are incredibly fragile now and > >>> >any disturbance from working on a fault tends to break something else. > >>> > > >>> >It got so bad at one point that they had to ship in additional POTS > >>> >engineers from outside the county to get on top of pending repairs. > >>> > > >>> >I haven't been able to find a picture of our underground configuration > >>> >(it is quite rare now) but this one of a normal passive BT cabinet isn't > >>> >too dissimilar if you image no supporting structure and the whole lot of > >>> >multicoloured knitting stuffed randomly into a double width manhole. > >>> > > >>> >https://www.reddit.com/r/cablegore/comments/333ek9/inside_a_bt_telephone_cabinet/ > >>> > > >>> >>> There may be a slight difference in texture which is what seems to > >>> >>> guide their choice of exactly what to nibble. We solved our problems > >>> >>> on radio telescope cable runs by flooding the ducts with dry nitrogen. > >>> >> > >>> >> Various "burrowing creatures" are more of a problem with the > >>> >> AC mains (which are also below grade). Part of the service > >>> >> procedure for each of the ground-mounted transformers is to > >>> >> fill the exposed earth *inside* the enclosure with mortar > >>> >> and wet it to form a bit of a crust to discourage the critters > >>> >> from gaining entry to the high voltage wiring (fried critters!). > >>> >> > >>> >> Packrats tend to enjoy feasting on the wire in automobiles, > >>> >> accessing that from the underside. > >>> > > >>> >Apparently pine martens are keen on BMW brake hose and wiring insulation > >>> >(and they are now moving into my area of the UK). > >>> > > >>> >https://www.englishforum.ch/daily-life/261913-pine-martens-brake-pipes.html > >>> > > >>> >> > >>> I collect pictures of disgusting wiring. > >>> > >>> https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/rdbz4ayuw0w60ch1f4dot/h?rlkey=k14c22nkj1leclay7itlpk28z&dl=0 > >> > >>looks like artwork made by craftsmen compared to the stuff you see from India > > > >San Francico has stunning views that are usually ruined by hideous > >wiring. It's being undergrounded, which should be mostly done in a > >couple of hundred years. > SF likely will not exist in a couple of years... > I was just reading that California is going to sue five big oil and gas companies for heating up earth: > ExxonMobil,BP, Chevron, ConocoPhillips and Shell. > > They should be grateful to those companies ...Gratitude for products, but not for byproducts. The purpose of suing is to get a court to consider the issue of those byproducts having a large-scale pollution cost, that SHOULD be accounted for in economic decisions, and paid for by the customers of 'big oil and gas companies'. If those bit companies add the cost of pollution to their products' costs, the suits will have satisfied California, and reward the oil-and-gas folk a bit of repayment for their collection of the new tax... The money losers, will be Jan Panteltje and associates. We're all his associates on this forum, of course.
Reply by ●September 17, 20232023-09-17
On a sunny day (Sat, 16 Sep 2023 22:38:41 -0700 (PDT)) it happened whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote in <08d599b3-ab2b-4526-958a-e65cc96a540bn@googlegroups.com>:>On Saturday, September 16, 2023 at 10:05:07 PM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje= > wrote: >> On a sunny day (Sat, 16 Sep 2023 08:04:49 -0700) it happened John Larkin= > >> <jjla...@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in >> <crgbgilsv8kptrpig...@4ax.com>: >> >On Sat, 16 Sep 2023 04:29:00 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen >> ><lang...@fonz.dk> wrote: >> > >> >>lørdag den 16. september 2023 kl. 13.19.58 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin= >: >> >>> On Sat, 16 Sep 2023 11:51:56 +0100, Martin Brown >> >>> <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> >On 15/09/2023 16:39, Don Y wrote: >> >>> >> On 9/15/2023 3:21 AM, Martin Brown wrote: >> >>> >>> We must surely have a lot more rain than in the US and yet our ph= >one >> >>> >>> lines generally do hold up for ADSL unless it gets very very wet = >(as >> >>> >>> in flooding). Being on the wrong side of the beck doesn't help.= > >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Are your lines fed from above (e.g., flying off telephone poles)?= > >> >>> >> Or, do they travel below grade, surfacing just before entering the= > >> >>> >> subscriber's premises? >> >>> > >> >>> >Modern build is usually the latter but where I am the cables travel= > >> >>> >underground from the exchange to the village and then up onto poles= > >> >>> >inside the village. We are a bit unusual in that our lines are archa= >ic >> >>> >"Exchange Only" lines with no cabinet between us and the exchange.= > >> >>> > >> >>> >Electricity also comes in overhead on the same set of poles which ma= >kes >> >>> >it difficult for the telco - they have to bring in a cherry picker t= >o >> >>> >work on their signal level cables at height because of the live wire= >s! >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Water frequently infiltrates our buried cables (including the 100+= > pair >> >>> >> that runs the length of the street, below grade). So, a (rare!) ra= >in >> >>> >> can leave you with a noisey line that resolves itself BEFORE the l= >ineman >> >>> >> can get around to actually checking the line, in person. >> >>> > >> >>> >That is pretty much the situation here except that it is a lot wette= >r >> >>> >and the groundwater is mildly alkaline and so corrosive. In addition= > >> >>> >tree branches can strip the insulation off the overhead cable runs w= >hich >> >>> >makes it very noisy and can break conductors. >> >>> > >> >>> >> Connections to the premises wiring are done above ground in a >> >>> >> "telephone network interface" box: the utility's feed is >> >>> >> terminated in a pair (typically) of RJ11 jacks. The premises >> >>> >> wiring presents as one or more RJ11 plugs. So, a subscriber can >> >>> >> "unplug" their wiring from the network to allow the utility >> >>> >> to check THEIR wiring without the subscriber's impacting the test.= > >> >>> > >> >>> >That is how modern installs are done with a so called master socket = >so >> >>> >you can isolate the house wiring and plug into the test socket. You = >are >> >>> >supposed to do this before reporting a fault. My master POTS socket = >is >> >>> >"conveniently" located at the far end of the loft where the old copp= >er >> >>> >cable enters the house. The new fibre install comes from a different= > >> >>> >pole and has a splice box at ground level with a fibre up to my offi= >ce. >> >>> > >> >>> >Prehistoric ones were little more than a 4 way terminal block with a= > >> >>> >Bakelite soap bar shaped cover over the top. >> >>> > >> >>> >>> They connector housings do fail from time to time but they seem t= >o >> >>> >>> last 5 or 10 years before they fail badly again. I'm not sure how= > they >> >>> >>> protect wet wires from corrosion though. There are places near me= > with >> >>> >>> hybrid copper meets aluminium phone wiring which partially rectif= >ies >> >>> >>> ADSL. So bad that some don't even get 256kbps. Peer to peer micro= >wave >> >>> >>> has been claiming these dead zones for some time - farmers need i= >t. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Our problem is with the hundreds of feet of 100(?) pair cable >> >>> >> that feeds the neighborhood from the main junction box at the entr= >ance to >> >>> >> the subdivision. Lots of places for a partial short or line imbala= >nce >> >>> >> to present. >> >>> > >> >>> >It is almost invariably the wet corroded joints that cause trouble o= >r >> >>> >rodents chewing off the insulation. Ours are incredibly fragile now = >and >> >>> >any disturbance from working on a fault tends to break something els= >e. >> >>> > >> >>> >It got so bad at one point that they had to ship in additional POTS= > >> >>> >engineers from outside the county to get on top of pending repairs.= > >> >>> > >> >>> >I haven't been able to find a picture of our underground configurati= >on >> >>> >(it is quite rare now) but this one of a normal passive BT cabinet i= >sn't >> >>> >too dissimilar if you image no supporting structure and the whole lo= >t of >> >>> >multicoloured knitting stuffed randomly into a double width manhole.= > >> >>> > >> >>> >https://www.reddit.com/r/cablegore/comments/333ek9/inside_a_bt_telep= >hone_cabinet/ >> >>> > >> >>> >>> There may be a slight difference in texture which is what seems t= >o >> >>> >>> guide their choice of exactly what to nibble. We solved our probl= >ems >> >>> >>> on radio telescope cable runs by flooding the ducts with dry nitr= >ogen. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Various "burrowing creatures" are more of a problem with the >> >>> >> AC mains (which are also below grade). Part of the service >> >>> >> procedure for each of the ground-mounted transformers is to >> >>> >> fill the exposed earth *inside* the enclosure with mortar >> >>> >> and wet it to form a bit of a crust to discourage the critters >> >>> >> from gaining entry to the high voltage wiring (fried critters!).= > >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Packrats tend to enjoy feasting on the wire in automobiles, >> >>> >> accessing that from the underside. >> >>> > >> >>> >Apparently pine martens are keen on BMW brake hose and wiring insula= >tion >> >>> >(and they are now moving into my area of the UK). >> >>> > >> >>> >https://www.englishforum.ch/daily-life/261913-pine-martens-brake-pip= >es.html >> >>> > >> >>> >> >> >>> I collect pictures of disgusting wiring. >> >>> >> >>> https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/rdbz4ayuw0w60ch1f4dot/h?rlkey=k14c22= >nkj1leclay7itlpk28z&dl=0 >> >> >> >>looks like artwork made by craftsmen compared to the stuff you see from= > India >> > >> >San Francico has stunning views that are usually ruined by hideous >> >wiring. It's being undergrounded, which should be mostly done in a >> >couple of hundred years. >> SF likely will not exist in a couple of years... >> I was just reading that California is going to sue five big oil and gas companies for heating up earth: >> ExxonMobil,BP, Chevron, ConocoPhillips and Shell. >> >> They should be grateful to those companies ... > >Gratitude for products, but not for byproducts. The purpose of suing is to get a court to >consider the issue of those byproducts having a large-scale pollution cost, that SHOULD >be accounted for in economic decisions, and paid for by the customers of >'big oil and gas companies'. If those bit companies add the cost of >pollution to their products' costs, the suits will have satisfied California, >and reward the oil-and-gas folk a bit of repayment for their collection of the new tax... > >The money losers, will be Jan Panteltje and associates. We're all his associates on >this forum, of course.Well, from the POV from reality, let's just all those companies as from now stop supplying California with oil, gas and ALL byproducts from oil, such as plastic, energy, everything. The lynching of those political insane CO2 clowns would be a hit on TV if they still HAD the electricity to watch it, or even the components to make those. No cars, no equipment to work the land, no food, no heating, no aircos NOTHING. There are too many lawyers in the US anyways, pestering people, they even have a go at presidents, like the great leader Trump who stopped the war in Afghanistan. The real war criminals like Bush for example still run free. Telling Saddam to attack Saudi Arabia and then making war on Saddam and selling weapons to Saudi Arabia all that for profit. No word of the environmental impact of the wars US makes!!!! And now the fuck you 'merricans think you can pollute EUROPE WITH YOUR GODDAMED DEPLETED AMMO? Time for that silly empire of ever lower IQ war mongers to perish. amen As to speed and cables, all power lines apart from HV lines are underground here. And I have a Huawei 4G USB stick here plugged into a Raspberry Pi 4 for internet and am posting this with the Usenet reader I wrote myself. That USB stick works just as well and id automatically detected in my laptop running Ubuntu when I am elsewhere. Teefee comes via satellite, all free to air, and EVERYTHING will work if there is no power as I have solar cells and a 250 Ah battery backup with a 2000 W converter to 230 V 50 Hz. What a joke you 'merricans have become.
Reply by ●September 17, 20232023-09-17
On 16/09/2023 12:19, John Larkin wrote:> On Sat, 16 Sep 2023 11:51:56 +0100, Martin Brown > <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote: >>> I haven't been able to find a picture of our underground configuration >> (it is quite rare now) but this one of a normal passive BT cabinet isn't >> too dissimilar if you image no supporting structure and the whole lot of >> multicoloured knitting stuffed randomly into a double width manhole. >> >> https://www.reddit.com/r/cablegore/comments/333ek9/inside_a_bt_telephone_cabinet/That example is a textbook layout neat one. Ours looks like that one after you have put a fork into it and and turned it over a few times!> I collect pictures of disgusting wiring. > > https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/rdbz4ayuw0w60ch1f4dot/h?rlkey=k14c22nkj1leclay7itlpk28z&dl=0It seems to me a miracle that telecoms stuff actually works! -- Martin Brown
Reply by ●September 17, 20232023-09-17
On 16/09/2023 16:24, Don Y wrote:> On 9/16/2023 3:51 AM, Martin Brown wrote: >> On 15/09/2023 16:39, Don Y wrote: >>> On 9/15/2023 3:21 AM, Martin Brown wrote: >>>> We must surely have a lot more rain than in the US and yet our phone >>>> lines generally do hold up for ADSL unless it gets very very wet (as >>>> in flooding). Being on the wrong side of the beck doesn't help. >>> >>> Are your lines fed from above (e.g., flying off telephone poles)? >>> Or, do they travel below grade, surfacing just before entering the >>> subscriber's premises? >> >> Modern build is usually the latter but where I am the cables travel >> underground from the exchange to the village and then up onto poles >> inside the village. We > > .. *to* the village? Are there so few subscribers there that the CO > isn't located *in* the village? ("village" has different connotations, > depending on where it is used, here; some villages are the size of towns; > some towns the size of villages)UK "village" has some ambiguity too. Modern ones can be legally up to 5k which means there are a lot of new builds with populations 4,999. Mine is a former medieval village in the old sense (arguably now a hamlet) with about 250 people in ~5 square miles. Mostly in a linear development along the main street apart from the farms. It was a fair bit 2-3x bigger before the black death struck it...> Most COs (in the places I've lived) have lines coming into a > room in the basement, then up to a "wiring room" where all of > the pairs are laid out (on punchdown blocks?).Is a CO what we would call a cabinet? Where the main trunk line back to the exchange is terminated and the local consumer circuits start? If so that is what is unusual about our provision - there is no cabinet the lines go all the way back to the exchange. That is unusual here...> When/if they ever surface, I've never directly observed. And, nowadays, > you don't know if they haven't run fiber out to a remote concentrator...That in the UK would be FTTC (VDSL fibre to the cabinet) with copper circuits to the consumers. Putting these onto Digital Voice VOIP makes them incredibly useless since even if the consumer end has a UPS the powered cabinet needed for FTTC does not have any back supply. That service is Digital in Name Only or "DINO" it combines all the worst characteristics of VOIP (fails without power) without eliminating the pesky final mile of ageing copper that carries the VDSL signals. POTS generally continues to work even when DSL is down (except if there is a fine break small enough for RF to jump the gap capacitively). Most importantly it still works when the mains has failed (and for a decent length of time too - exchanges have largish battery backup systems).>> are a bit unusual in that our lines are archaic "Exchange Only" lines >> with no cabinet between us and the exchange. > > So, any line repair/reconfiguration is done AT the CO?There is no CO the lines run right back to the exchange. That is the meaning of an exchange only line. They are a nightmare for VDSL operation because of the crosstalk they induce inside the exchange. The standard fix is that they install a new powered FTTC cabinet nearby and run anyone nearby taking the VDSL service to that.> > There's a large (20 sq ft) wiring cabinet at the entrance to our > subdivisions that terminates all of the pairs from the CO *to* > the pairs feeding the subscribers. There is ALWAYS a telco > service vehicle parked nearby "fixing" something (I'm guessing > 200 homes in the subdivision?)That is about the size of our entire local exchange including its battery room. My fibre service doesn't go to that exchange at all but to a much larger exchange ~12 miles away in the county town.> >> Electricity also comes in overhead on the same set of poles which >> makes it difficult for the telco - they have to bring in a cherry >> picker to work on their signal level cables at height because of the >> live wires! > > Hmmm... the places I've lived with overhead wiring have usually > had the high tension wires at the top of the poles (imagine a T) > with cable and phone down much lower -- like halfway. They transit > to the home over separate paths so even if you had to access the > cable at the house, there would be sufficient clearance from the > mains feed.The convention in the UK is horizontal mounted wires implies medium high tension 33kV or thereabouts and vertical mounted wires are consumer 240v distribution. I reckon the lowest now uninsulated hot cable is only about 2' above the telecoms line. Poles are also marked "do not climb" for other reasons of age and decrepitude.>>> Water frequently infiltrates our buried cables (including the 100+ pair >>> that runs the length of the street, below grade). So, a (rare!) rain >>> can leave you with a noisey line that resolves itself BEFORE the lineman >>> can get around to actually checking the line, in person. >> >> That is pretty much the situation here except that it is a lot wetter >> and the groundwater is mildly alkaline and so corrosive. > > Ours is classified as "slightly to very strong alkaline" with a pervasive > layer of calcium carbonate some 6-12 inches below the surface. The soil > temperature is relatively high (70-80F) tracking our average air > temperature (~75F)It is a lot colder than that here so penetrating ground frosts also play a part in prizing wet crimp joints apart.> The advent of cell phone technology took a lot of pressure off of > POTS; folks could just discard their pairs, making them available > for the next house up or down the street.That is happening here too. In fact apart from going with BT you automatically lose your landline number if you take full fibre internet. The naming convention is pretty silly too - they first sold FTTC as "fibre" so they now have to call true fibre services "full fibre".>> You are supposed to do this before reporting a fault. > > Yes, and because a RJ11 *jack* is presented, you can > carry a station set out to the TNI and connect to the > network directly to convince yourself that the > problem lies with the provider (or in the home).UK has its own peculiar BT connector - not RJ11 although adapters are available (thought nothing like as peculiar as Belgacom's connectors).> Here, the crimp connections would happen on punchdown (66/110) blocks. > The pedestal wiring is less disciplined; I have no idea how they > keep track of which pairs they split off of the main cable at > each pedestal! (and wonder if there is ANY documentation of this??)I have wondered about that too. They do seem to know which line pair is which without having to put a trace signal on most of the time. -- Martin Brown
Reply by ●September 17, 20232023-09-17
On Sun, 17 Sep 2023 05:04:57 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:>On a sunny day (Sat, 16 Sep 2023 08:04:49 -0700) it happened John Larkin ><jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in ><crgbgilsv8kptrpigj9h5pnotddsq6liha@4ax.com>: > >>On Sat, 16 Sep 2023 04:29:00 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen >><langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote: >> >>>l�rdag den 16. september 2023 kl. 13.19.58 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin: >>>> On Sat, 16 Sep 2023 11:51:56 +0100, Martin Brown >>>> <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote: >>>> >>>> >On 15/09/2023 16:39, Don Y wrote: >>>> >> On 9/15/2023 3:21 AM, Martin Brown wrote: >>>> >>> We must surely have a lot more rain than in the US and yet our phone >>>> >>> lines generally do hold up for ADSL unless it gets very very wet (as >>>> >>> in flooding). Being on the wrong side of the beck doesn't help. >>>> >> >>>> >> Are your lines fed from above (e.g., flying off telephone poles)? >>>> >> Or, do they travel below grade, surfacing just before entering the >>>> >> subscriber's premises? >>>> > >>>> >Modern build is usually the latter but where I am the cables travel >>>> >underground from the exchange to the village and then up onto poles >>>> >inside the village. We are a bit unusual in that our lines are archaic >>>> >"Exchange Only" lines with no cabinet between us and the exchange. >>>> > >>>> >Electricity also comes in overhead on the same set of poles which makes >>>> >it difficult for the telco - they have to bring in a cherry picker to >>>> >work on their signal level cables at height because of the live wires! >>>> >> >>>> >> Water frequently infiltrates our buried cables (including the 100+ pair >>>> >> that runs the length of the street, below grade). So, a (rare!) rain >>>> >> can leave you with a noisey line that resolves itself BEFORE the lineman >>>> >> can get around to actually checking the line, in person. >>>> > >>>> >That is pretty much the situation here except that it is a lot wetter >>>> >and the groundwater is mildly alkaline and so corrosive. In addition >>>> >tree branches can strip the insulation off the overhead cable runs which >>>> >makes it very noisy and can break conductors. >>>> > >>>> >> Connections to the premises wiring are done above ground in a >>>> >> "telephone network interface" box: the utility's feed is >>>> >> terminated in a pair (typically) of RJ11 jacks. The premises >>>> >> wiring presents as one or more RJ11 plugs. So, a subscriber can >>>> >> "unplug" their wiring from the network to allow the utility >>>> >> to check THEIR wiring without the subscriber's impacting the test. >>>> > >>>> >That is how modern installs are done with a so called master socket so >>>> >you can isolate the house wiring and plug into the test socket. You are >>>> >supposed to do this before reporting a fault. My master POTS socket is >>>> >"conveniently" located at the far end of the loft where the old copper >>>> >cable enters the house. The new fibre install comes from a different >>>> >pole and has a splice box at ground level with a fibre up to my office. >>>> > >>>> >Prehistoric ones were little more than a 4 way terminal block with a >>>> >Bakelite soap bar shaped cover over the top. >>>> > >>>> >>> They connector housings do fail from time to time but they seem to >>>> >>> last 5 or 10 years before they fail badly again. I'm not sure how they >>>> >>> protect wet wires from corrosion though. There are places near me with >>>> >>> hybrid copper meets aluminium phone wiring which partially rectifies >>>> >>> ADSL. So bad that some don't even get 256kbps. Peer to peer microwave >>>> >>> has been claiming these dead zones for some time - farmers need it. >>>> >> >>>> >> Our problem is with the hundreds of feet of 100(?) pair cable >>>> >> that feeds the neighborhood from the main junction box at the entrance to >>>> >> the subdivision. Lots of places for a partial short or line imbalance >>>> >> to present. >>>> > >>>> >It is almost invariably the wet corroded joints that cause trouble or >>>> >rodents chewing off the insulation. Ours are incredibly fragile now and >>>> >any disturbance from working on a fault tends to break something else. >>>> > >>>> >It got so bad at one point that they had to ship in additional POTS >>>> >engineers from outside the county to get on top of pending repairs. >>>> > >>>> >I haven't been able to find a picture of our underground configuration >>>> >(it is quite rare now) but this one of a normal passive BT cabinet isn't >>>> >too dissimilar if you image no supporting structure and the whole lot of >>>> >multicoloured knitting stuffed randomly into a double width manhole. >>>> > >>>> >https://www.reddit.com/r/cablegore/comments/333ek9/inside_a_bt_telephone_cabinet/ >>>> > >>>> >>> There may be a slight difference in texture which is what seems to >>>> >>> guide their choice of exactly what to nibble. We solved our problems >>>> >>> on radio telescope cable runs by flooding the ducts with dry nitrogen. >>>> >> >>>> >> Various "burrowing creatures" are more of a problem with the >>>> >> AC mains (which are also below grade). Part of the service >>>> >> procedure for each of the ground-mounted transformers is to >>>> >> fill the exposed earth *inside* the enclosure with mortar >>>> >> and wet it to form a bit of a crust to discourage the critters >>>> >> from gaining entry to the high voltage wiring (fried critters!). >>>> >> >>>> >> Packrats tend to enjoy feasting on the wire in automobiles, >>>> >> accessing that from the underside. >>>> > >>>> >Apparently pine martens are keen on BMW brake hose and wiring insulation >>>> >(and they are now moving into my area of the UK). >>>> > >>>> >https://www.englishforum.ch/daily-life/261913-pine-martens-brake-pipes.html >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> I collect pictures of disgusting wiring. >>>> >>>> https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/rdbz4ayuw0w60ch1f4dot/h?rlkey=k14c22nkj1leclay7itlpk28z&dl=0 >>> >>>looks like artwork made by craftsmen compared to the stuff you see from India >> >>San Francico has stunning views that are usually ruined by hideous >>wiring. It's being undergrounded, which should be mostly done in a >>couple of hundred years. > > >SF likely will not exist in a couple of years... >I was just reading that California is going to sue five big oil and gas companies for heating up earth: > ExxonMobil,BP, Chevron, ConocoPhillips and Shell. > >They should be grateful to those companies that made California liveable and the industry and jobs they created, >The complete insane climate idiots that infected politics using CO2 witch hunts means the end of civilization.Electing greenie morons will change, as people sit hungry in the cold and dark in their dead Teslas. SF will exist for a long time. Lots of people will always want to live here.
Reply by ●September 17, 20232023-09-17
On Sun, 17 Sep 2023 10:32:32 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:>On a sunny day (Sat, 16 Sep 2023 22:38:41 -0700 (PDT)) it happened whit3rd ><whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote in ><08d599b3-ab2b-4526-958a-e65cc96a540bn@googlegroups.com>: > >>On Saturday, September 16, 2023 at 10:05:07 PM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje= >> wrote: >>> On a sunny day (Sat, 16 Sep 2023 08:04:49 -0700) it happened John Larkin= >> >>> <jjla...@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in >>> <crgbgilsv8kptrpig...@4ax.com>: >>> >On Sat, 16 Sep 2023 04:29:00 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen >>> ><lang...@fonz.dk> wrote: >>> > >>> >>lørdag den 16. september 2023 kl. 13.19.58 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin= >>: >>> >>> On Sat, 16 Sep 2023 11:51:56 +0100, Martin Brown >>> >>> <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >On 15/09/2023 16:39, Don Y wrote: >>> >>> >> On 9/15/2023 3:21 AM, Martin Brown wrote: >>> >>> >>> We must surely have a lot more rain than in the US and yet our ph= >>one >>> >>> >>> lines generally do hold up for ADSL unless it gets very very wet = >>(as >>> >>> >>> in flooding). Being on the wrong side of the beck doesn't help.= >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> Are your lines fed from above (e.g., flying off telephone poles)?= >> >>> >>> >> Or, do they travel below grade, surfacing just before entering the= >> >>> >>> >> subscriber's premises? >>> >>> > >>> >>> >Modern build is usually the latter but where I am the cables travel= >> >>> >>> >underground from the exchange to the village and then up onto poles= >> >>> >>> >inside the village. We are a bit unusual in that our lines are archa= >>ic >>> >>> >"Exchange Only" lines with no cabinet between us and the exchange.= >> >>> >>> > >>> >>> >Electricity also comes in overhead on the same set of poles which ma= >>kes >>> >>> >it difficult for the telco - they have to bring in a cherry picker t= >>o >>> >>> >work on their signal level cables at height because of the live wire= >>s! >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> Water frequently infiltrates our buried cables (including the 100+= >> pair >>> >>> >> that runs the length of the street, below grade). So, a (rare!) ra= >>in >>> >>> >> can leave you with a noisey line that resolves itself BEFORE the l= >>ineman >>> >>> >> can get around to actually checking the line, in person. >>> >>> > >>> >>> >That is pretty much the situation here except that it is a lot wette= >>r >>> >>> >and the groundwater is mildly alkaline and so corrosive. In addition= >> >>> >>> >tree branches can strip the insulation off the overhead cable runs w= >>hich >>> >>> >makes it very noisy and can break conductors. >>> >>> > >>> >>> >> Connections to the premises wiring are done above ground in a >>> >>> >> "telephone network interface" box: the utility's feed is >>> >>> >> terminated in a pair (typically) of RJ11 jacks. The premises >>> >>> >> wiring presents as one or more RJ11 plugs. So, a subscriber can >>> >>> >> "unplug" their wiring from the network to allow the utility >>> >>> >> to check THEIR wiring without the subscriber's impacting the test.= >> >>> >>> > >>> >>> >That is how modern installs are done with a so called master socket = >>so >>> >>> >you can isolate the house wiring and plug into the test socket. You = >>are >>> >>> >supposed to do this before reporting a fault. My master POTS socket = >>is >>> >>> >"conveniently" located at the far end of the loft where the old copp= >>er >>> >>> >cable enters the house. The new fibre install comes from a different= >> >>> >>> >pole and has a splice box at ground level with a fibre up to my offi= >>ce. >>> >>> > >>> >>> >Prehistoric ones were little more than a 4 way terminal block with a= >> >>> >>> >Bakelite soap bar shaped cover over the top. >>> >>> > >>> >>> >>> They connector housings do fail from time to time but they seem t= >>o >>> >>> >>> last 5 or 10 years before they fail badly again. I'm not sure how= >> they >>> >>> >>> protect wet wires from corrosion though. There are places near me= >> with >>> >>> >>> hybrid copper meets aluminium phone wiring which partially rectif= >>ies >>> >>> >>> ADSL. So bad that some don't even get 256kbps. Peer to peer micro= >>wave >>> >>> >>> has been claiming these dead zones for some time - farmers need i= >>t. >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> Our problem is with the hundreds of feet of 100(?) pair cable >>> >>> >> that feeds the neighborhood from the main junction box at the entr= >>ance to >>> >>> >> the subdivision. Lots of places for a partial short or line imbala= >>nce >>> >>> >> to present. >>> >>> > >>> >>> >It is almost invariably the wet corroded joints that cause trouble o= >>r >>> >>> >rodents chewing off the insulation. Ours are incredibly fragile now = >>and >>> >>> >any disturbance from working on a fault tends to break something els= >>e. >>> >>> > >>> >>> >It got so bad at one point that they had to ship in additional POTS= >> >>> >>> >engineers from outside the county to get on top of pending repairs.= >> >>> >>> > >>> >>> >I haven't been able to find a picture of our underground configurati= >>on >>> >>> >(it is quite rare now) but this one of a normal passive BT cabinet i= >>sn't >>> >>> >too dissimilar if you image no supporting structure and the whole lo= >>t of >>> >>> >multicoloured knitting stuffed randomly into a double width manhole.= >> >>> >>> > >>> >>> >https://www.reddit.com/r/cablegore/comments/333ek9/inside_a_bt_telep= >>hone_cabinet/ >>> >>> > >>> >>> >>> There may be a slight difference in texture which is what seems t= >>o >>> >>> >>> guide their choice of exactly what to nibble. We solved our probl= >>ems >>> >>> >>> on radio telescope cable runs by flooding the ducts with dry nitr= >>ogen. >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> Various "burrowing creatures" are more of a problem with the >>> >>> >> AC mains (which are also below grade). Part of the service >>> >>> >> procedure for each of the ground-mounted transformers is to >>> >>> >> fill the exposed earth *inside* the enclosure with mortar >>> >>> >> and wet it to form a bit of a crust to discourage the critters >>> >>> >> from gaining entry to the high voltage wiring (fried critters!).= >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> Packrats tend to enjoy feasting on the wire in automobiles, >>> >>> >> accessing that from the underside. >>> >>> > >>> >>> >Apparently pine martens are keen on BMW brake hose and wiring insula= >>tion >>> >>> >(and they are now moving into my area of the UK). >>> >>> > >>> >>> >https://www.englishforum.ch/daily-life/261913-pine-martens-brake-pip= >>es.html >>> >>> > >>> >>> >> >>> >>> I collect pictures of disgusting wiring. >>> >>> >>> >>> https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/rdbz4ayuw0w60ch1f4dot/h?rlkey=k14c22= >>nkj1leclay7itlpk28z&dl=0 >>> >> >>> >>looks like artwork made by craftsmen compared to the stuff you see from= >> India >>> > >>> >San Francico has stunning views that are usually ruined by hideous >>> >wiring. It's being undergrounded, which should be mostly done in a >>> >couple of hundred years. >>> SF likely will not exist in a couple of years... >>> I was just reading that California is going to sue five big oil and gas companies for heating up earth: >>> ExxonMobil,BP, Chevron, ConocoPhillips and Shell. >>> >>> They should be grateful to those companies ... >> >>Gratitude for products, but not for byproducts. The purpose of suing is to get a court to >>consider the issue of those byproducts having a large-scale pollution cost, that SHOULD >>be accounted for in economic decisions, and paid for by the customers of >>'big oil and gas companies'. If those bit companies add the cost of >>pollution to their products' costs, the suits will have satisfied California, >>and reward the oil-and-gas folk a bit of repayment for their collection of the new tax... >> >>The money losers, will be Jan Panteltje and associates. We're all his associates on >>this forum, of course. > >Well, from the POV from reality, >let's just all those companies as from now stop supplying California >with oil, gas and ALL byproducts from oil, such as plastic, energy, >everything. >The lynching of those political insane CO2 clowns would be a hit on TV if >they still HAD the electricity to watch it, or even the components to make those. >No cars, no equipment to work the land, no food, no heating, no aircos >NOTHING. > >There are too many lawyers in the US anyways, pestering people, they even have a go at presidents, >like the great leader Trump who stopped the war in Afghanistan. >The real war criminals like Bush for example still run free. >Telling Saddam to attack Saudi Arabia and then making war on Saddam and selling weapons to Saudi Arabia all that for profit. >No word of the environmental impact of the wars US makes!!!! >And now the fuck you 'merricans think you can pollute EUROPE WITH YOUR GODDAMED DEPLETED AMMO? > >Time for that silly empire of ever lower IQ war mongers to perish. >amen > >As to speed and cables, all power lines apart from HV lines are underground here.It's hilly and rocky here. Digging is expensive. We use a microwave link for our internet at work because it would have cost about $100K to dig up the street and run fiber. All streets should have a utility tunnel. Too late here.>And I have a Huawei 4G USB stick here plugged into a Raspberry Pi 4 for internet and am posting this with the Usenet reader I wrote myself. >That USB stick works just as well and id automatically detected in my laptop running Ubuntu when I am elsewhere. >Teefee comes via satellite, all free to air, and EVERYTHING will work if there is no power as I have solar cells >and a 250 Ah battery backup with a 2000 W converter to 230 V 50 Hz. > >What a joke you 'merricans have become.Life is great here, if you turn off your phone and avoid reading the gloomy part of the news, which is about 90%. People are not trekking a couple thousand miles to get into Russia or Cuba or Somalia.
Reply by ●September 17, 20232023-09-17
On Sun, 17 Sep 2023 15:32:28 +0100, Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:>On 16/09/2023 12:19, John Larkin wrote: >> On Sat, 16 Sep 2023 11:51:56 +0100, Martin Brown >> <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote: >> > >>> I haven't been able to find a picture of our underground configuration >>> (it is quite rare now) but this one of a normal passive BT cabinet isn't >>> too dissimilar if you image no supporting structure and the whole lot of >>> multicoloured knitting stuffed randomly into a double width manhole. >>> >>> https://www.reddit.com/r/cablegore/comments/333ek9/inside_a_bt_telephone_cabinet/ > >That example is a textbook layout neat one. Ours looks like that one >after you have put a fork into it and and turned it over a few times! > >> I collect pictures of disgusting wiring. >> >> https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/rdbz4ayuw0w60ch1f4dot/h?rlkey=k14c22nkj1leclay7itlpk28z&dl=0 > >It seems to me a miracle that telecoms stuff actually works!Our utilities, including cable/internet, are actually quite reliable. I can't explain that. Our cable modem hangs up once in a while, but that's just the usual software bugs. A hard power cycle fixes that.
Reply by ●September 17, 20232023-09-17
On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Sep 2023 07:58:15 -0700) it happened John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in <4p4egilh7pg6fufr6sadpeerkprckvn32s@4ax.com>:>On Sun, 17 Sep 2023 05:04:57 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >wrote: > >>On a sunny day (Sat, 16 Sep 2023 08:04:49 -0700) it happened John Larkin >><jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in >><crgbgilsv8kptrpigj9h5pnotddsq6liha@4ax.com>: >> >>>On Sat, 16 Sep 2023 04:29:00 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen >>><langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote: >>> >>>>l�rdag den 16. september 2023 kl. 13.19.58 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin: >>>>> On Sat, 16 Sep 2023 11:51:56 +0100, Martin Brown >>>>> <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >On 15/09/2023 16:39, Don Y wrote: >>>>> >> On 9/15/2023 3:21 AM, Martin Brown wrote: >>>>> >>> We must surely have a lot more rain than in the US and yet our phone >>>>> >>> lines generally do hold up for ADSL unless it gets very very wet (as >>>>> >>> in flooding). Being on the wrong side of the beck doesn't help. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Are your lines fed from above (e.g., flying off telephone poles)? >>>>> >> Or, do they travel below grade, surfacing just before entering the >>>>> >> subscriber's premises? >>>>> > >>>>> >Modern build is usually the latter but where I am the cables travel >>>>> >underground from the exchange to the village and then up onto poles >>>>> >inside the village. We are a bit unusual in that our lines are archaic >>>>> >"Exchange Only" lines with no cabinet between us and the exchange. >>>>> > >>>>> >Electricity also comes in overhead on the same set of poles which makes >>>>> >it difficult for the telco - they have to bring in a cherry picker to >>>>> >work on their signal level cables at height because of the live wires! >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Water frequently infiltrates our buried cables (including the 100+ pair >>>>> >> that runs the length of the street, below grade). So, a (rare!) rain >>>>> >> can leave you with a noisey line that resolves itself BEFORE the lineman >>>>> >> can get around to actually checking the line, in person. >>>>> > >>>>> >That is pretty much the situation here except that it is a lot wetter >>>>> >and the groundwater is mildly alkaline and so corrosive. In addition >>>>> >tree branches can strip the insulation off the overhead cable runs which >>>>> >makes it very noisy and can break conductors. >>>>> > >>>>> >> Connections to the premises wiring are done above ground in a >>>>> >> "telephone network interface" box: the utility's feed is >>>>> >> terminated in a pair (typically) of RJ11 jacks. The premises >>>>> >> wiring presents as one or more RJ11 plugs. So, a subscriber can >>>>> >> "unplug" their wiring from the network to allow the utility >>>>> >> to check THEIR wiring without the subscriber's impacting the test. >>>>> > >>>>> >That is how modern installs are done with a so called master socket so >>>>> >you can isolate the house wiring and plug into the test socket. You are >>>>> >supposed to do this before reporting a fault. My master POTS socket is >>>>> >"conveniently" located at the far end of the loft where the old copper >>>>> >cable enters the house. The new fibre install comes from a different >>>>> >pole and has a splice box at ground level with a fibre up to my office. >>>>> > >>>>> >Prehistoric ones were little more than a 4 way terminal block with a >>>>> >Bakelite soap bar shaped cover over the top. >>>>> > >>>>> >>> They connector housings do fail from time to time but they seem to >>>>> >>> last 5 or 10 years before they fail badly again. I'm not sure how they >>>>> >>> protect wet wires from corrosion though. There are places near me with >>>>> >>> hybrid copper meets aluminium phone wiring which partially rectifies >>>>> >>> ADSL. So bad that some don't even get 256kbps. Peer to peer microwave >>>>> >>> has been claiming these dead zones for some time - farmers need it. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Our problem is with the hundreds of feet of 100(?) pair cable >>>>> >> that feeds the neighborhood from the main junction box at the entrance to >>>>> >> the subdivision. Lots of places for a partial short or line imbalance >>>>> >> to present. >>>>> > >>>>> >It is almost invariably the wet corroded joints that cause trouble or >>>>> >rodents chewing off the insulation. Ours are incredibly fragile now and >>>>> >any disturbance from working on a fault tends to break something else. >>>>> > >>>>> >It got so bad at one point that they had to ship in additional POTS >>>>> >engineers from outside the county to get on top of pending repairs. >>>>> > >>>>> >I haven't been able to find a picture of our underground configuration >>>>> >(it is quite rare now) but this one of a normal passive BT cabinet isn't >>>>> >too dissimilar if you image no supporting structure and the whole lot of >>>>> >multicoloured knitting stuffed randomly into a double width manhole. >>>>> > >>>>> >https://www.reddit.com/r/cablegore/comments/333ek9/inside_a_bt_telephone_cabinet/ >>>>> > >>>>> >>> There may be a slight difference in texture which is what seems to >>>>> >>> guide their choice of exactly what to nibble. We solved our problems >>>>> >>> on radio telescope cable runs by flooding the ducts with dry nitrogen. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Various "burrowing creatures" are more of a problem with the >>>>> >> AC mains (which are also below grade). Part of the service >>>>> >> procedure for each of the ground-mounted transformers is to >>>>> >> fill the exposed earth *inside* the enclosure with mortar >>>>> >> and wet it to form a bit of a crust to discourage the critters >>>>> >> from gaining entry to the high voltage wiring (fried critters!). >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Packrats tend to enjoy feasting on the wire in automobiles, >>>>> >> accessing that from the underside. >>>>> > >>>>> >Apparently pine martens are keen on BMW brake hose and wiring insulation >>>>> >(and they are now moving into my area of the UK). >>>>> > >>>>> >https://www.englishforum.ch/daily-life/261913-pine-martens-brake-pipes.html >>>>> > >>>>> >> >>>>> I collect pictures of disgusting wiring. >>>>> >>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/rdbz4ayuw0w60ch1f4dot/h?rlkey=k14c22nkj1leclay7itlpk28z&dl=0 >>>> >>>>looks like artwork made by craftsmen compared to the stuff you see from India >>> >>>San Francico has stunning views that are usually ruined by hideous >>>wiring. It's being undergrounded, which should be mostly done in a >>>couple of hundred years. >> >> >>SF likely will not exist in a couple of years... >>I was just reading that California is going to sue five big oil and gas companies for heating up earth: >> ExxonMobil,BP, Chevron, ConocoPhillips and Shell. >> >>They should be grateful to those companies that made California liveable and the industry and jobs they created, >>The complete insane climate idiots that infected politics using CO2 witch hunts means the end of civilization. > >Electing greenie morons will change, as people sit hungry in the cold >and dark in their dead Teslas. > >SF will exist for a long time. Lots of people will always want to live >here.Sure Su[p]perman will come to the rescue when the Andreas fault is triggered?
Reply by ●September 17, 20232023-09-17
On Sun, 17 Sep 2023 15:37:50 +0100, Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:>On 16/09/2023 16:24, Don Y wrote: >> On 9/16/2023 3:51 AM, Martin Brown wrote: >>> On 15/09/2023 16:39, Don Y wrote: >>>> On 9/15/2023 3:21 AM, Martin Brown wrote: >>>>> We must surely have a lot more rain than in the US and yet our phone >>>>> lines generally do hold up for ADSL unless it gets very very wet (as >>>>> in flooding). Being on the wrong side of the beck doesn't help. >>>> >>>> Are your lines fed from above (e.g., flying off telephone poles)? >>>> Or, do they travel below grade, surfacing just before entering the >>>> subscriber's premises? >>> >>> Modern build is usually the latter but where I am the cables travel >>> underground from the exchange to the village and then up onto poles >>> inside the village. We >> >> .. *to* the village?� Are there so few subscribers there that the CO >> isn't located *in* the village?� ("village" has different connotations, >> depending on where it is used, here; some villages are the size of towns; >> some towns the size of villages)We live in Glen Park Village, roughly a square mile of houses and a canyon. The combination of hills and major streets/freeways chops SF up into distinct neighborhoods, which is cool. But that barely affects public services or utilities. It does affect the public water supply. A number of hilltop pumped reservoirs store our drinking water for some downhill region, so a distinct area can lose water. Fortunately, that's rare. Grass grows on top the reservoirs so once in a while the city rents goats.
