On Mon, 7 Nov 2022 11:30:14 +0100, "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:>On 2022-11-06 21:19, John Larkin wrote: >> On Sun, 6 Nov 2022 10:39:25 -0800 (PST), Lasse Langwadt Christensen >> <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote: >> >>> s�ndag den 6. november 2022 kl. 19.08.51 UTC+1 skrev John Larkin: >>>> On Sun, 6 Nov 2022 09:45:18 -0800 (PST), Lasse Langwadt Christensen >>>> <lang...@fonz.dk> wrote: >>>> >>>>> s�ndag den 6. november 2022 kl. 18.35.33 UTC+1 skrev John Larkin: >>>>>> Today's NYT describes a nasty fire in an apartment building in >>>>>> Manhattan, started by a bicycle battery. There have been 200 >>>>>> battery-ignited fires in Manhattan so far this year, with six deaths. >>>>>> Unless battery quality improves somehow, buildings will need fireproof >>>>>> vaults for parking bikes and scooters. >>>>> >>>>> do you leave your battery powered tools, laptop or cellphone outside just to be sure? >>>>> et.al. >>>> I don't have any battery powered tools. Mo has a little whipper thing >>>> to make her own foamy coffee, but it uses (a lot of) AA batteries. >>>> >>>> I haven't heard of fires from phones or laptops. >>> >>> then you haven't been listening, >> >> Don't be obnoxious. >> >> Apple, Samsung et.al. have all had cases with >>> battery fires, billion dollar recalls, lawsuit >> >> They don't make the news like the 200 building fires and six deaths in >> Manhattan this year from bikes and scooters. >> >> How many cell phone fires are there per year in the US? >> > >183, says google.That's minute compared to 200 building fires in Manhattan alone.> > > >Phones top list of fires among electronic devices, says Health ... >https://www.cbc.ca � news � canada � nova-scotia � hea... >Nov 16, 2021 � There were 183 fires reported across the country over the >past five years involving phones and their accessories. The second most >frequent cause ... > > ><https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/health-canada-phones-fires-2021-data-1.6249741>Over five years in Canada? A 9 volt battery gets pretty hot of you short it. I wonder if that can start a fire.
lithium fires
Started by ●November 6, 2022
Reply by ●November 7, 20222022-11-07
Reply by ●November 7, 20222022-11-07
On 2022-11-07 11:14, Ricky wrote:> On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 1:49:31 PM UTC-5, Jeroen Belleman wrote: >> On 2022-11-06 19:08, John Larkin wrote: >>> On Sun, 6 Nov 2022 09:45:18 -0800 (PST), Lasse Langwadt Christensen >>> <lang...@fonz.dk> wrote: >>> >>>> søndag den 6. november 2022 kl. 18.35.33 UTC+1 skrev John Larkin: >>>>> Today's NYT describes a nasty fire in an apartment building in >>>>> Manhattan, started by a bicycle battery. There have been 200 >>>>> battery-ignited fires in Manhattan so far this year, with six deaths. >>>>> Unless battery quality improves somehow, buildings will need fireproof >>>>> vaults for parking bikes and scooters. >>>> >>>> do you leave your battery powered tools, laptop or cellphone outside just to be sure? >>>> >>> >>> I don't have any battery powered tools. Mo has a little whipper thing >>> to make her own foamy coffee, but it uses (a lot of) AA batteries. >>> >>> I haven't heard of fires from phones or laptops. They use relatively >>> small, low peak power flat batteries so may be less of a fire hazard. >>> Better thermals and maybe different construction from vehicle >>> batteries. >>> >>> Kilograms (or tons) of densely packed batteries is a whole nother >>> story. Fires seem to be in vehicle batteries. >>> [...] >> >> We need some kind of flow battery, where the reagents are kept >> separated until needed. Cheap, efficient, powerful flow batteries >> are still elusive. > > That's a gasoline engine, no? >Well, yes, but that's on it's way to being outlawed. Jeroen Belleman
Reply by ●November 7, 20222022-11-07
On Sun, 6 Nov 2022 13:57:37 -0800, John Robertson <jrr@flippers.com> wrote:>On 2022/11/06 9:35 a.m., John Larkin wrote: >> Today's NYT describes a nasty fire in an apartment building in >>... >> There is also a full-page ad trashing Tesla, claiming that Autopilot >> won't see a kid in the road. >> > >Autopilot has trouble with motorcycles too. A number of riders have been >run down... > >https://www.oregonlive.com/business/2022/08/2-teslas-have-run-into-killed-motorcyclists-does-autopilot-not-see-them.html > >https://www.rideapart.com/news/420777/tesla-autopilot-pedestrian-death-lawsuit/ > >https://newatlas.com/tesla-autopilot-fema/46045/ > >Bad enough dealing with idiot drivers and bad road surfaces, now we have >to avoid Teslas! > >Sheesh! > >I've been riding pretty much year round since around 1972... > >John :-#(#If you don't treat cars as mindless automata, while riding a bike (motored or otherwise), you're bound to be surprised. I've had vehicles cross two lanes of empty road with no apparent aim except to force me onto the verge. Watch out for black pick-ups and crew cabs, particularly. They seem to think its a rodeo. RL
Reply by ●November 7, 20222022-11-07
On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 10:08:51 AM UTC-8, John Larkin wrote:> On Sun, 6 Nov 2022 09:45:18 -0800 (PST), Lasse Langwadt Christensen > <lang...@fonz.dk> wrote: > > >søndag den 6. november 2022 kl. 18.35.33 UTC+1 skrev John Larkin: > >> Today's NYT describes a nasty fire in an apartment building in > >> Manhattan, started by a bicycle battery. There have been 200 > >> battery-ignited fires in Manhattan so far this year, with six deaths. > >> Unless battery quality improves somehow, buildings will need fireproof > >> vaults for parking bikes and scooters. > > > >do you leave your battery powered tools, laptop or cellphone outside just to be sure? > > > I don't have any battery powered tools. Mo has a little whipper thing > to make her own foamy coffee, but it uses (a lot of) AA batteries. > > I haven't heard of fires from phones or laptops. They use relatively > small, low peak power flat batteries so may be less of a fire hazard. > Better thermals and maybe different construction from vehicle > batteries. > > Kilograms (or tons) of densely packed batteries is a whole nother > story. Fires seem to be in vehicle batteries. > > There aren't many cheap Chinese laptops or phones being sold here; > Apple and Dell and Samsung can't take risks with bad batteries. But > there are lots of cheap Chinese bikes and scooters.It's the same Panasonic 1865/2170/4860 cells as in the laptops. I stick with 1865s because of the larger surface area vs. energy density for cooling. My primary battery is pouch cells, but it's around 50% capacity and not able to catch fire. I am planning on replacing them with 1865 as well. An EV is like running 1000 laptops.
Reply by ●November 7, 20222022-11-07
On 11/6/2022 12:35 PM, John Larkin wrote:> Today's NYT describes a nasty fire in an apartment building in > Manhattan, started by a bicycle battery. There have been 200 > battery-ignited fires in Manhattan so far this year, with six deaths. > Unless battery quality improves somehow, buildings will need fireproof > vaults for parking bikes and scooters. > > I see lots of electric scooters and bikes on the streets of San > Francisco lately. Some have gigantic batteries. Those could become > hazards as they age. Theft is common so people want to take their > rides indoors. > > There is also a full-page ad trashing Tesla, claiming that Autopilot > won't see a kid in the road. >Good thing Teslas can drive themselves, as their owners tend to not be very good at doing it on their own
Reply by ●November 7, 20222022-11-07
On Mon, 7 Nov 2022 09:53:38 -0500, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:>On 11/6/2022 12:35 PM, John Larkin wrote: >> Today's NYT describes a nasty fire in an apartment building in >> Manhattan, started by a bicycle battery. There have been 200 >> battery-ignited fires in Manhattan so far this year, with six deaths. >> Unless battery quality improves somehow, buildings will need fireproof >> vaults for parking bikes and scooters. >> >> I see lots of electric scooters and bikes on the streets of San >> Francisco lately. Some have gigantic batteries. Those could become >> hazards as they age. Theft is common so people want to take their >> rides indoors. >> >> There is also a full-page ad trashing Tesla, claiming that Autopilot >> won't see a kid in the road. >> > >Good thing Teslas can drive themselves, as their owners tend to not be >very good at doing it on their ownSame with Volvo drivers.
Reply by ●November 7, 20222022-11-07
On 11/7/2022 11:00 AM, John Larkin wrote:> On Mon, 7 Nov 2022 09:53:38 -0500, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote: > >> On 11/6/2022 12:35 PM, John Larkin wrote: >>> Today's NYT describes a nasty fire in an apartment building in >>> Manhattan, started by a bicycle battery. There have been 200 >>> battery-ignited fires in Manhattan so far this year, with six deaths. >>> Unless battery quality improves somehow, buildings will need fireproof >>> vaults for parking bikes and scooters. >>> >>> I see lots of electric scooters and bikes on the streets of San >>> Francisco lately. Some have gigantic batteries. Those could become >>> hazards as they age. Theft is common so people want to take their >>> rides indoors. >>> >>> There is also a full-page ad trashing Tesla, claiming that Autopilot >>> won't see a kid in the road. >>> >> >> Good thing Teslas can drive themselves, as their owners tend to not be >> very good at doing it on their own > > Same with Volvo drivers. >I used to think of Volvos as an MD's car. But the Volvo used to be a Saab if they were a doctor of psychiatry
Reply by ●November 7, 20222022-11-07
On Mon, 7 Nov 2022 14:37:56 -0500, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:>On 11/7/2022 11:00 AM, John Larkin wrote: >> On Mon, 7 Nov 2022 09:53:38 -0500, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote: >> >>> On 11/6/2022 12:35 PM, John Larkin wrote: >>>> Today's NYT describes a nasty fire in an apartment building in >>>> Manhattan, started by a bicycle battery. There have been 200 >>>> battery-ignited fires in Manhattan so far this year, with six deaths. >>>> Unless battery quality improves somehow, buildings will need fireproof >>>> vaults for parking bikes and scooters. >>>> >>>> I see lots of electric scooters and bikes on the streets of San >>>> Francisco lately. Some have gigantic batteries. Those could become >>>> hazards as they age. Theft is common so people want to take their >>>> rides indoors. >>>> >>>> There is also a full-page ad trashing Tesla, claiming that Autopilot >>>> won't see a kid in the road. >>>> >>> >>> Good thing Teslas can drive themselves, as their owners tend to not be >>> very good at doing it on their own >> >> Same with Volvo drivers. >> > >I used to think of Volvos as an MD's car. But the Volvo used to be a >Saab if they were a doctor of psychiatrySaabs were great cars, between fires. Bad rivets on a fuse panel. I theorize that Volvo drivers are bad drivers, had a wreck, and now want something "safe". Or just like ugly cars.
Reply by ●November 7, 20222022-11-07
On Mon, 07 Nov 2022 12:45:28 -0800, John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:>On Mon, 7 Nov 2022 14:37:56 -0500, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote: > >>On 11/7/2022 11:00 AM, John Larkin wrote: >>> On Mon, 7 Nov 2022 09:53:38 -0500, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote: >>> >>>> On 11/6/2022 12:35 PM, John Larkin wrote: >>>>> Today's NYT describes a nasty fire in an apartment building in >>>>> Manhattan, started by a bicycle battery. There have been 200 >>>>> battery-ignited fires in Manhattan so far this year, with six deaths. >>>>> Unless battery quality improves somehow, buildings will need fireproof >>>>> vaults for parking bikes and scooters. >>>>> >>>>> I see lots of electric scooters and bikes on the streets of San >>>>> Francisco lately. Some have gigantic batteries. Those could become >>>>> hazards as they age. Theft is common so people want to take their >>>>> rides indoors. >>>>> >>>>> There is also a full-page ad trashing Tesla, claiming that Autopilot >>>>> won't see a kid in the road. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Good thing Teslas can drive themselves, as their owners tend to not be >>>> very good at doing it on their own >>> >>> Same with Volvo drivers. >>> >> >>I used to think of Volvos as an MD's car. But the Volvo used to be a >>Saab if they were a doctor of psychiatry > >Saabs were great cars, between fires. Bad rivets on a fuse panel.I wonder if Saab used Lucas electric stuff. Volvos did. All hail Lucas, the Prince of Darkness! Sound the Trumpets!>I theorize that Volvo drivers are bad drivers, had a wreck, and now >want something "safe". Or just like ugly cars.Well, they are safe, to the degree that any car can be safe. Something like ten years ago, about 10:30AM on a clear dry day, I was rear-ended on Route 128 (the inner ring road around Boston) while slowing down and moving towards an exit ramp. I was hit by a fellow coming off the corresponding in-ramp, acceleration to match speed with a space in passing traffic, looking in the wrong direction. Full speed impact - he never saw me. Nor did I see him, as he was in my blind spot. I knew I;d been hit, because nothing else could have caused that hard a shove. Both cars were totaled. But nobody was hurt. Neither windshield was broken, front or back. But the most amazing thing was that I did not have any whiplash - the Volvo seats were built to absorb the energy, and it worked. My wife, seeing her husband walk away from such a crash, promptly bought herself a Volvo. But she didn't like it all that much, because it steered like a truck (which was always true), and had too large a turning circle (which was a later development as the engine outgrew the engine compartment, limiting how far the front wheels could turn). (She got an Audi Q3.) Joe Gwinn
Reply by ●November 7, 20222022-11-07
On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 6:06:31 PM UTC-4, Joe Gwinn wrote:> On Mon, 07 Nov 2022 12:45:28 -0800, John Larkin > <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote: > > >On Mon, 7 Nov 2022 14:37:56 -0500, bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote: > > > >>On 11/7/2022 11:00 AM, John Larkin wrote: > >>> On Mon, 7 Nov 2022 09:53:38 -0500, bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote: > >>> > >>>> On 11/6/2022 12:35 PM, John Larkin wrote: > >>>>> Today's NYT describes a nasty fire in an apartment building in > >>>>> Manhattan, started by a bicycle battery. There have been 200 > >>>>> battery-ignited fires in Manhattan so far this year, with six deaths. > >>>>> Unless battery quality improves somehow, buildings will need fireproof > >>>>> vaults for parking bikes and scooters. > >>>>> > >>>>> I see lots of electric scooters and bikes on the streets of San > >>>>> Francisco lately. Some have gigantic batteries. Those could become > >>>>> hazards as they age. Theft is common so people want to take their > >>>>> rides indoors. > >>>>> > >>>>> There is also a full-page ad trashing Tesla, claiming that Autopilot > >>>>> won't see a kid in the road. > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> Good thing Teslas can drive themselves, as their owners tend to not be > >>>> very good at doing it on their own > >>> > >>> Same with Volvo drivers. > >>> > >> > >>I used to think of Volvos as an MD's car. But the Volvo used to be a > >>Saab if they were a doctor of psychiatry > > > >Saabs were great cars, between fires. Bad rivets on a fuse panel. > I wonder if Saab used Lucas electric stuff. Volvos did. > > All hail Lucas, the Prince of Darkness! Sound the Trumpets! > >I theorize that Volvo drivers are bad drivers, had a wreck, and now > >want something "safe". Or just like ugly cars. > Well, they are safe, to the degree that any car can be safe. > > Something like ten years ago, about 10:30AM on a clear dry day, I was > rear-ended on Route 128 (the inner ring road around Boston) while > slowing down and moving towards an exit ramp. I was hit by a fellow > coming off the corresponding in-ramp, acceleration to match speed with > a space in passing traffic, looking in the wrong direction. Full > speed impact - he never saw me. Nor did I see him, as he was in my > blind spot. I knew I;d been hit, because nothing else could have > caused that hard a shove. > > Both cars were totaled. But nobody was hurt. Neither windshield was > broken, front or back. But the most amazing thing was that I did not > have any whiplash - the Volvo seats were built to absorb the energy, > and it worked. > > My wife, seeing her husband walk away from such a crash, promptly > bought herself a Volvo. But she didn't like it all that much, because > it steered like a truck (which was always true), and had too large a > turning circle (which was a later development as the engine outgrew > the engine compartment, limiting how far the front wheels could turn). > (She got an Audi Q3.)I always liked the handling of Volvos. They were very well balanced. I could take a highway entrance ramp at increasing speed, right up to the point where all four wheels would start to drift. I've never had a car that did that. It was always the rear for rear wheel drive cars, or the front for front drive cars. The one extreme example of that was the a Corvair I owned for less than a year. It died like most Corvairs, going in reverse while in a forward gear. The autocross guys loved being able to get the rear of the car to go around the turn almost in front of the front wheels. -- Rick C. +- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging +- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
