Today's NYT describes a nasty fire in an apartment building in Manhattan, started by a bicycle battery. There have been 200 battery-ignited fires in Manhattan so far this year, with six deaths. Unless battery quality improves somehow, buildings will need fireproof vaults for parking bikes and scooters. I see lots of electric scooters and bikes on the streets of San Francisco lately. Some have gigantic batteries. Those could become hazards as they age. Theft is common so people want to take their rides indoors. There is also a full-page ad trashing Tesla, claiming that Autopilot won't see a kid in the road.
lithium fires
Started by ●November 6, 2022
Reply by ●November 6, 20222022-11-06
søndag den 6. november 2022 kl. 18.35.33 UTC+1 skrev John Larkin:> Today's NYT describes a nasty fire in an apartment building in > Manhattan, started by a bicycle battery. There have been 200 > battery-ignited fires in Manhattan so far this year, with six deaths. > Unless battery quality improves somehow, buildings will need fireproof > vaults for parking bikes and scooters.do you leave your battery powered tools, laptop or cellphone outside just to be sure?
Reply by ●November 6, 20222022-11-06
On Sun, 6 Nov 2022 09:45:18 -0800 (PST), Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:>s�ndag den 6. november 2022 kl. 18.35.33 UTC+1 skrev John Larkin: >> Today's NYT describes a nasty fire in an apartment building in >> Manhattan, started by a bicycle battery. There have been 200 >> battery-ignited fires in Manhattan so far this year, with six deaths. >> Unless battery quality improves somehow, buildings will need fireproof >> vaults for parking bikes and scooters. > >do you leave your battery powered tools, laptop or cellphone outside just to be sure? >I don't have any battery powered tools. Mo has a little whipper thing to make her own foamy coffee, but it uses (a lot of) AA batteries. I haven't heard of fires from phones or laptops. They use relatively small, low peak power flat batteries so may be less of a fire hazard. Better thermals and maybe different construction from vehicle batteries. Kilograms (or tons) of densely packed batteries is a whole nother story. Fires seem to be in vehicle batteries. There aren't many cheap Chinese laptops or phones being sold here; Apple and Dell and Samsung can't take risks with bad batteries. But there are lots of cheap Chinese bikes and scooters.
Reply by ●November 6, 20222022-11-06
søndag den 6. november 2022 kl. 19.08.51 UTC+1 skrev John Larkin:> On Sun, 6 Nov 2022 09:45:18 -0800 (PST), Lasse Langwadt Christensen > <lang...@fonz.dk> wrote: > > >søndag den 6. november 2022 kl. 18.35.33 UTC+1 skrev John Larkin: > >> Today's NYT describes a nasty fire in an apartment building in > >> Manhattan, started by a bicycle battery. There have been 200 > >> battery-ignited fires in Manhattan so far this year, with six deaths. > >> Unless battery quality improves somehow, buildings will need fireproof > >> vaults for parking bikes and scooters. > > > >do you leave your battery powered tools, laptop or cellphone outside just to be sure? > >et.al. > I don't have any battery powered tools. Mo has a little whipper thing > to make her own foamy coffee, but it uses (a lot of) AA batteries. > > I haven't heard of fires from phones or laptops.then you haven't been listening, Apple, Samsung et.al. have all had cases with battery fires, billion dollar recalls, lawsuit
Reply by ●November 6, 20222022-11-06
On 2022-11-06 18:45, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:> søndag den 6. november 2022 kl. 18.35.33 UTC+1 skrev John Larkin: >> Today's NYT describes a nasty fire in an apartment building in >> Manhattan, started by a bicycle battery. There have been 200 >> battery-ignited fires in Manhattan so far this year, with six deaths. >> Unless battery quality improves somehow, buildings will need fireproof >> vaults for parking bikes and scooters. > > do you leave your battery powered tools, laptop or cellphone outside just to be sure?I don't, but I frequently wonder if I should. Jeroen Belleman
Reply by ●November 6, 20222022-11-06
On 2022-11-06 19:08, John Larkin wrote:> On Sun, 6 Nov 2022 09:45:18 -0800 (PST), Lasse Langwadt Christensen > <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote: > >> s�ndag den 6. november 2022 kl. 18.35.33 UTC+1 skrev John Larkin: >>> Today's NYT describes a nasty fire in an apartment building in >>> Manhattan, started by a bicycle battery. There have been 200 >>> battery-ignited fires in Manhattan so far this year, with six deaths. >>> Unless battery quality improves somehow, buildings will need fireproof >>> vaults for parking bikes and scooters. >> >> do you leave your battery powered tools, laptop or cellphone outside just to be sure? >> > > I don't have any battery powered tools. Mo has a little whipper thing > to make her own foamy coffee, but it uses (a lot of) AA batteries. > > I haven't heard of fires from phones or laptops. They use relatively > small, low peak power flat batteries so may be less of a fire hazard. > Better thermals and maybe different construction from vehicle > batteries. > > Kilograms (or tons) of densely packed batteries is a whole nother > story. Fires seem to be in vehicle batteries. > [...]We need some kind of flow battery, where the reagents are kept separated until needed. Cheap, efficient, powerful flow batteries are still elusive. Jeroen Belleman
Reply by ●November 6, 20222022-11-06
On Sun, 6 Nov 2022 10:39:25 -0800 (PST), Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:>s�ndag den 6. november 2022 kl. 19.08.51 UTC+1 skrev John Larkin: >> On Sun, 6 Nov 2022 09:45:18 -0800 (PST), Lasse Langwadt Christensen >> <lang...@fonz.dk> wrote: >> >> >s�ndag den 6. november 2022 kl. 18.35.33 UTC+1 skrev John Larkin: >> >> Today's NYT describes a nasty fire in an apartment building in >> >> Manhattan, started by a bicycle battery. There have been 200 >> >> battery-ignited fires in Manhattan so far this year, with six deaths. >> >> Unless battery quality improves somehow, buildings will need fireproof >> >> vaults for parking bikes and scooters. >> > >> >do you leave your battery powered tools, laptop or cellphone outside just to be sure? >> >et.al. >> I don't have any battery powered tools. Mo has a little whipper thing >> to make her own foamy coffee, but it uses (a lot of) AA batteries. >> >> I haven't heard of fires from phones or laptops. > >then you haven't been listening,Don't be obnoxious. Apple, Samsung et.al. have all had cases with>battery fires, billion dollar recalls, lawsuitThey don't make the news like the 200 building fires and six deaths in Manhattan this year from bikes and scooters. How many cell phone fires are there per year in the US?
Reply by ●November 6, 20222022-11-06
On Sun, 06 Nov 2022 19:49:24 +0100, Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:>On 2022-11-06 19:08, John Larkin wrote: >> On Sun, 6 Nov 2022 09:45:18 -0800 (PST), Lasse Langwadt Christensen >> <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote: >> >>> s�ndag den 6. november 2022 kl. 18.35.33 UTC+1 skrev John Larkin: >>>> Today's NYT describes a nasty fire in an apartment building in >>>> Manhattan, started by a bicycle battery. There have been 200 >>>> battery-ignited fires in Manhattan so far this year, with six deaths. >>>> Unless battery quality improves somehow, buildings will need fireproof >>>> vaults for parking bikes and scooters. >>> >>> do you leave your battery powered tools, laptop or cellphone outside just to be sure? >>> >> >> I don't have any battery powered tools. Mo has a little whipper thing >> to make her own foamy coffee, but it uses (a lot of) AA batteries. >> >> I haven't heard of fires from phones or laptops. They use relatively >> small, low peak power flat batteries so may be less of a fire hazard. >> Better thermals and maybe different construction from vehicle >> batteries. >> >> Kilograms (or tons) of densely packed batteries is a whole nother >> story. Fires seem to be in vehicle batteries. >> [...] > >We need some kind of flow battery, where the reagents are kept >separated until needed. Cheap, efficient, powerful flow batteries >are still elusive. > >Jeroen Belleman > >The best battery would use air as one of the reactants.
Reply by ●November 6, 20222022-11-06
On Sunday, 6 November 2022 at 20:20:49 UTC, John Larkin wrote:> On Sun, 06 Nov 2022 19:49:24 +0100, Jeroen Belleman > <jer...@nospam.please> wrote: > > >On 2022-11-06 19:08, John Larkin wrote: > >> On Sun, 6 Nov 2022 09:45:18 -0800 (PST), Lasse Langwadt Christensen > >> <lang...@fonz.dk> wrote: > >> > >>> søndag den 6. november 2022 kl. 18.35.33 UTC+1 skrev John Larkin: > >>>> Today's NYT describes a nasty fire in an apartment building in > >>>> Manhattan, started by a bicycle battery. There have been 200 > >>>> battery-ignited fires in Manhattan so far this year, with six deaths. > >>>> Unless battery quality improves somehow, buildings will need fireproof > >>>> vaults for parking bikes and scooters. > >>> > >>> do you leave your battery powered tools, laptop or cellphone outside just to be sure? > >>> > >> > >> I don't have any battery powered tools. Mo has a little whipper thing > >> to make her own foamy coffee, but it uses (a lot of) AA batteries. > >> > >> I haven't heard of fires from phones or laptops. They use relatively > >> small, low peak power flat batteries so may be less of a fire hazard. > >> Better thermals and maybe different construction from vehicle > >> batteries. > >> > >> Kilograms (or tons) of densely packed batteries is a whole nother > >> story. Fires seem to be in vehicle batteries. > >> [...] > > > >We need some kind of flow battery, where the reagents are kept > >separated until needed. Cheap, efficient, powerful flow batteries > >are still elusive. > > > >Jeroen Belleman > > > > > The best battery would use air as one of the reactants.Zinc-air batteries do that. They have been used in hearing aids for many decades. However, they have their own problems. Once the tab that keeps the air out has been peeled off they tend to self-discharge fairly quickly. They are not generally very good at coping with high peak loads either. John
Reply by ●November 6, 20222022-11-06
søndag den 6. november 2022 kl. 21.19.27 UTC+1 skrev John Larkin:> On Sun, 6 Nov 2022 10:39:25 -0800 (PST), Lasse Langwadt Christensen > <lang...@fonz.dk> wrote: > > >søndag den 6. november 2022 kl. 19.08.51 UTC+1 skrev John Larkin: > >> On Sun, 6 Nov 2022 09:45:18 -0800 (PST), Lasse Langwadt Christensen > >> <lang...@fonz.dk> wrote: > >> > >> >søndag den 6. november 2022 kl. 18.35.33 UTC+1 skrev John Larkin: > >> >> Today's NYT describes a nasty fire in an apartment building in > >> >> Manhattan, started by a bicycle battery. There have been 200 > >> >> battery-ignited fires in Manhattan so far this year, with six deaths. > >> >> Unless battery quality improves somehow, buildings will need fireproof > >> >> vaults for parking bikes and scooters. > >> > > >> >do you leave your battery powered tools, laptop or cellphone outside just to be sure? > >> >et.al. > >> I don't have any battery powered tools. Mo has a little whipper thing > >> to make her own foamy coffee, but it uses (a lot of) AA batteries. > >> > >> I haven't heard of fires from phones or laptops. > > > >then you haven't been listening, > Don't be obnoxious. > Apple, Samsung et.al. have all had cases with > >battery fires, billion dollar recalls, lawsuit > They don't make the news like the 200 building fires and six deaths in > Manhattan this year from bikes and scooters. > > How many cell phone fires are there per year in the US?don't know, but https://www.thezebra.com/resources/research/house-fire-statistics/ ...An estimated 358,500 home fires occur every year. 50% of these fires start in the kitchen, 7% begin in the bedroom, and 6% are chimney fires, 4% of all residential home fires start in the living room, while 3% start from the laundry room... ..more than 26,000 house fires, caused by faulty wiring... ..On average, seven people die in a fire a day.. so while there is undoubtedly so very bad quality batteries out there it would have to be really bad to "compete" with other sources
