søndag den 6. november 2022 kl. 21.31.47 UTC+1 skrev John Walliker:> On Sunday, 6 November 2022 at 20:20:49 UTC, John Larkin wrote: > > On Sun, 06 Nov 2022 19:49:24 +0100, Jeroen Belleman > > <jer...@nospam.please> wrote: > > > > >On 2022-11-06 19:08, John Larkin wrote: > > >> On Sun, 6 Nov 2022 09:45:18 -0800 (PST), Lasse Langwadt Christensen > > >> <lang...@fonz.dk> wrote: > > >> > > >>> søndag den 6. november 2022 kl. 18.35.33 UTC+1 skrev John Larkin: > > >>>> Today's NYT describes a nasty fire in an apartment building in > > >>>> Manhattan, started by a bicycle battery. There have been 200 > > >>>> battery-ignited fires in Manhattan so far this year, with six deaths. > > >>>> Unless battery quality improves somehow, buildings will need fireproof > > >>>> vaults for parking bikes and scooters. > > >>> > > >>> do you leave your battery powered tools, laptop or cellphone outside just to be sure? > > >>> > > >> > > >> I don't have any battery powered tools. Mo has a little whipper thing > > >> to make her own foamy coffee, but it uses (a lot of) AA batteries. > > >> > > >> I haven't heard of fires from phones or laptops. They use relatively > > >> small, low peak power flat batteries so may be less of a fire hazard. > > >> Better thermals and maybe different construction from vehicle > > >> batteries. > > >> > > >> Kilograms (or tons) of densely packed batteries is a whole nother > > >> story. Fires seem to be in vehicle batteries. > > >> [...] > > > > > >We need some kind of flow battery, where the reagents are kept > > >separated until needed. Cheap, efficient, powerful flow batteries > > >are still elusive. > > > > > >Jeroen Belleman > > > > > > > > The best battery would use air as one of the reactants. > Zinc-air batteries do that. They have been used in hearing aids for many decades. > However, they have their own problems. Once the tab that keeps the air out has > been peeled off they tend to self-discharge fairly quickly. They are not generally > very good at coping with high peak loads either. > Johnvery clever automatic lubricator based on a zinc-air cell https://youtu.be/Be9RU3PU1bw the battery makes hydrogen pushing out the grease, how fast the grease is pushed out depends on the load on the battery
lithium fires
Started by ●November 6, 2022
Reply by ●November 6, 20222022-11-06
Reply by ●November 6, 20222022-11-06
On 2022/11/06 9:35 a.m., John Larkin wrote:> Today's NYT describes a nasty fire in an apartment building in >... > There is also a full-page ad trashing Tesla, claiming that Autopilot > won't see a kid in the road. >Autopilot has trouble with motorcycles too. A number of riders have been run down... https://www.oregonlive.com/business/2022/08/2-teslas-have-run-into-killed-motorcyclists-does-autopilot-not-see-them.html https://www.rideapart.com/news/420777/tesla-autopilot-pedestrian-death-lawsuit/ https://newatlas.com/tesla-autopilot-fema/46045/ Bad enough dealing with idiot drivers and bad road surfaces, now we have to avoid Teslas! Sheesh! I've been riding pretty much year round since around 1972... John :-#(#
Reply by ●November 6, 20222022-11-06
On 2022-11-06 21:20, John Larkin wrote:> On Sun, 06 Nov 2022 19:49:24 +0100, Jeroen Belleman > <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote: > >> On 2022-11-06 19:08, John Larkin wrote: >>> On Sun, 6 Nov 2022 09:45:18 -0800 (PST), Lasse Langwadt Christensen >>> <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote: >>> >>>> s�ndag den 6. november 2022 kl. 18.35.33 UTC+1 skrev John Larkin: >>>>> Today's NYT describes a nasty fire in an apartment building in >>>>> Manhattan, started by a bicycle battery. There have been 200 >>>>> battery-ignited fires in Manhattan so far this year, with six deaths. >>>>> Unless battery quality improves somehow, buildings will need fireproof >>>>> vaults for parking bikes and scooters. >>>> >>>> do you leave your battery powered tools, laptop or cellphone outside just to be sure? >>>> >>> >>> I don't have any battery powered tools. Mo has a little whipper thing >>> to make her own foamy coffee, but it uses (a lot of) AA batteries. >>> >>> I haven't heard of fires from phones or laptops. They use relatively >>> small, low peak power flat batteries so may be less of a fire hazard. >>> Better thermals and maybe different construction from vehicle >>> batteries. >>> >>> Kilograms (or tons) of densely packed batteries is a whole nother >>> story. Fires seem to be in vehicle batteries. >>> [...] >> >> We need some kind of flow battery, where the reagents are kept >> separated until needed. Cheap, efficient, powerful flow batteries >> are still elusive. >> >> Jeroen Belleman >> >> > > The best battery would use air as one of the reactants. >Yes, and some liquid as the other. Jeroen Belleman
Reply by ●November 7, 20222022-11-07
On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 3:11:06 PM UTC-8, Jeroen Belleman wrote:> On 2022-11-06 21:20, John Larkin wrote: > > On Sun, 06 Nov 2022 19:49:24 +0100, Jeroen Belleman > > <jer...@nospam.please> wrote: > > > >> On 2022-11-06 19:08, John Larkin wrote: > >>> On Sun, 6 Nov 2022 09:45:18 -0800 (PST), Lasse Langwadt Christensen > >>> <lang...@fonz.dk> wrote: > >>> > >>>> søndag den 6. november 2022 kl. 18.35.33 UTC+1 skrev John Larkin: > >>>>> Today's NYT describes a nasty fire in an apartment building in > >>>>> Manhattan, started by a bicycle battery. There have been 200 > >>>>> battery-ignited fires in Manhattan so far this year, with six deaths. > >>>>> Unless battery quality improves somehow, buildings will need fireproof > >>>>> vaults for parking bikes and scooters. > >>>> > >>>> do you leave your battery powered tools, laptop or cellphone outside just to be sure? > >>>> > >>> > >>> I don't have any battery powered tools. Mo has a little whipper thing > >>> to make her own foamy coffee, but it uses (a lot of) AA batteries. > >>> > >>> I haven't heard of fires from phones or laptops. They use relatively > >>> small, low peak power flat batteries so may be less of a fire hazard. > >>> Better thermals and maybe different construction from vehicle > >>> batteries. > >>> > >>> Kilograms (or tons) of densely packed batteries is a whole nother > >>> story. Fires seem to be in vehicle batteries. > >>> [...] > >> > >> We need some kind of flow battery, where the reagents are kept > >> separated until needed. Cheap, efficient, powerful flow batteries > >> are still elusive. > >> > >> Jeroen Belleman > >> > >> > > > > The best battery would use air as one of the reactants. > > > Yes, and some liquid as the other. > > Jeroen BellemanThe bottom line here is there is a vast variation in the quality of the lithium batteries being produced. I am sure that China can produce high-quality batteries IF they institute the proper rigorous quality control procedures. But many China producers are driven to produce the cheapest, lowest quality batteries possible. You see it in knock-off battery packs for hand tools; the cells inside have NO manufacturer markings whatsoever, and they don't produce the same energy levels. They are just CHEAP so the battery pack is cheaper than the name brand. I just checked a number of reviews today on this issue.
Reply by ●November 7, 20222022-11-07
On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 12:35:33 PM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:> Today's NYT describes a nasty fire in an apartment building in > Manhattan, started by a bicycle battery. There have been 200 > battery-ignited fires in Manhattan so far this year, with six deaths. > Unless battery quality improves somehow, buildings will need fireproof > vaults for parking bikes and scooters. > > I see lots of electric scooters and bikes on the streets of San > Francisco lately. Some have gigantic batteries. Those could become > hazards as they age. Theft is common so people want to take their > rides indoors. > > There is also a full-page ad trashing Tesla, claiming that Autopilot > won't see a kid in the road.Yeah, I believe that test had to do with a car in front of the Tesla suddenly moving out of the lane. So the test dummy child was struck by the Tesla which did not have time to react, just like a human. Of course, the goal is not to be like humans. That's a very low bar. So far, the Teslas have far surpassed humans in safety. But that's not a completely fair comparison, considering the way autopilot is used. -- Rick C. - Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging - Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Reply by ●November 7, 20222022-11-07
On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 1:49:31 PM UTC-5, Jeroen Belleman wrote:> On 2022-11-06 19:08, John Larkin wrote: > > On Sun, 6 Nov 2022 09:45:18 -0800 (PST), Lasse Langwadt Christensen > > <lang...@fonz.dk> wrote: > > > >> søndag den 6. november 2022 kl. 18.35.33 UTC+1 skrev John Larkin: > >>> Today's NYT describes a nasty fire in an apartment building in > >>> Manhattan, started by a bicycle battery. There have been 200 > >>> battery-ignited fires in Manhattan so far this year, with six deaths. > >>> Unless battery quality improves somehow, buildings will need fireproof > >>> vaults for parking bikes and scooters. > >> > >> do you leave your battery powered tools, laptop or cellphone outside just to be sure? > >> > > > > I don't have any battery powered tools. Mo has a little whipper thing > > to make her own foamy coffee, but it uses (a lot of) AA batteries. > > > > I haven't heard of fires from phones or laptops. They use relatively > > small, low peak power flat batteries so may be less of a fire hazard. > > Better thermals and maybe different construction from vehicle > > batteries. > > > > Kilograms (or tons) of densely packed batteries is a whole nother > > story. Fires seem to be in vehicle batteries. > > [...] > > We need some kind of flow battery, where the reagents are kept > separated until needed. Cheap, efficient, powerful flow batteries > are still elusive.That's a gasoline engine, no? -- Rick C. +- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging + Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Reply by ●November 7, 20222022-11-07
On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 3:19:27 PM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:> On Sun, 6 Nov 2022 10:39:25 -0800 (PST), Lasse Langwadt Christensen > <lang...@fonz.dk> wrote: > > >søndag den 6. november 2022 kl. 19.08.51 UTC+1 skrev John Larkin: > >> On Sun, 6 Nov 2022 09:45:18 -0800 (PST), Lasse Langwadt Christensen > >> <lang...@fonz.dk> wrote: > >> > >> >søndag den 6. november 2022 kl. 18.35.33 UTC+1 skrev John Larkin: > >> >> Today's NYT describes a nasty fire in an apartment building in > >> >> Manhattan, started by a bicycle battery. There have been 200 > >> >> battery-ignited fires in Manhattan so far this year, with six deaths. > >> >> Unless battery quality improves somehow, buildings will need fireproof > >> >> vaults for parking bikes and scooters. > >> > > >> >do you leave your battery powered tools, laptop or cellphone outside just to be sure? > >> >et.al. > >> I don't have any battery powered tools. Mo has a little whipper thing > >> to make her own foamy coffee, but it uses (a lot of) AA batteries. > >> > >> I haven't heard of fires from phones or laptops. > > > >then you haven't been listening, > Don't be obnoxious.Lol! No one's being obnoxious. He's just pointing out that you clearly don't read much general news. These reports are wide spread when they happen. In other terms, "Big News!"> Apple, Samsung et.al. have all had cases with > >battery fires, billion dollar recalls, lawsuit > They don't make the news like the 200 building fires and six deaths in > Manhattan this year from bikes and scooters.They make it into a few newspapers and magazines that people read. https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=wall+street+journal+phone+battery+fires> How many cell phone fires are there per year in the US?https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=How+many+cell+phone+fires+are+there+per+year+in+the+US I can't say your question is obnoxious, but it is lazy. You could have typed it into Google rather than your newsreader. -- Rick C. -- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging -- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Reply by ●November 7, 20222022-11-07
On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 4:57:45 PM UTC-5, John Robertson wrote:> On 2022/11/06 9:35 a.m., John Larkin wrote: > > Today's NYT describes a nasty fire in an apartment building in > >... > > There is also a full-page ad trashing Tesla, claiming that Autopilot > > won't see a kid in the road. > > > Autopilot has trouble with motorcycles too. A number of riders have been > run down... > > https://www.oregonlive.com/business/2022/08/2-teslas-have-run-into-killed-motorcyclists-does-autopilot-not-see-them.html > > https://www.rideapart.com/news/420777/tesla-autopilot-pedestrian-death-lawsuit/"The driver of the Model X had his hands on the steering wheel, but was also dozing off behind it." Sounds like the problem is, as typical, the loose nut behind the wheel.> https://newatlas.com/tesla-autopilot-fema/46045/ > > Bad enough dealing with idiot drivers and bad road surfaces, now we have > to avoid Teslas! > > Sheesh! > > I've been riding pretty much year round since around 1972...The Teslas are actually safer than humans statistically speaking. How safe do cars need to be? Maybe you should take a look at the cars that aren't Teslas? I used to ride a bike, until I was rear ended in DC. He wasn't driving a Tesla. -- Rick C. -+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging -+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Reply by ●November 7, 20222022-11-07
On 2022-11-06 21:19, John Larkin wrote:> On Sun, 6 Nov 2022 10:39:25 -0800 (PST), Lasse Langwadt Christensen > <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote: > >> søndag den 6. november 2022 kl. 19.08.51 UTC+1 skrev John Larkin: >>> On Sun, 6 Nov 2022 09:45:18 -0800 (PST), Lasse Langwadt Christensen >>> <lang...@fonz.dk> wrote: >>> >>>> søndag den 6. november 2022 kl. 18.35.33 UTC+1 skrev John Larkin: >>>>> Today's NYT describes a nasty fire in an apartment building in >>>>> Manhattan, started by a bicycle battery. There have been 200 >>>>> battery-ignited fires in Manhattan so far this year, with six deaths. >>>>> Unless battery quality improves somehow, buildings will need fireproof >>>>> vaults for parking bikes and scooters. >>>> >>>> do you leave your battery powered tools, laptop or cellphone outside just to be sure? >>>> et.al. >>> I don't have any battery powered tools. Mo has a little whipper thing >>> to make her own foamy coffee, but it uses (a lot of) AA batteries. >>> >>> I haven't heard of fires from phones or laptops. >> >> then you haven't been listening, > > Don't be obnoxious. > > Apple, Samsung et.al. have all had cases with >> battery fires, billion dollar recalls, lawsuit > > They don't make the news like the 200 building fires and six deaths in > Manhattan this year from bikes and scooters. > > How many cell phone fires are there per year in the US? >183, says google. Phones top list of fires among electronic devices, says Health ... https://www.cbc.ca › news › canada › nova-scotia › hea... Nov 16, 2021 — There were 183 fires reported across the country over the past five years involving phones and their accessories. The second most frequent cause ... <https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/health-canada-phones-fires-2021-data-1.6249741> -- Cheers, Carlos.
Reply by ●November 7, 20222022-11-07
