>[snip snip snip]
>Tonite's news report on tellie said the person
>plugged the wrong charger into the e-bike/e-scooter.
>(and parked it near the doorway, so the fire blocked them from
>safe normal exit!)
>
>I guess people have more than one "micro mobility device"
>and get confused about chargers.
>But I'm a bit surprised that these products
>use the exact same DC connector (but only a bit surprised).
>
>the other theory is that some folks are buying refurbished
>battery packs, and we don't know the quality of that
>refurbishment.
Most people here now travel by jetpack.
I have even seen a couple flying hand in hand.
They keep it on even when shopping!
Reply by Rich S●November 7, 20222022-11-07
On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 10:45:21 PM UTC, lang...@fonz.dk wrote:
> mandag den 7. november 2022 kl. 23.22.37 UTC+1 skrev Ricky:
> > On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 6:06:31 PM UTC-4, Joe Gwinn wrote:
> > > On Mon, 07 Nov 2022 12:45:28 -0800, John Larkin
> > > <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:
[snip snip snip]
Tonite's news report on tellie said the person
plugged the wrong charger into the e-bike/e-scooter.
(and parked it near the doorway, so the fire blocked them from
safe normal exit!)
I guess people have more than one "micro mobility device"
and get confused about chargers.
But I'm a bit surprised that these products
use the exact same DC connector (but only a bit surprised).
the other theory is that some folks are buying refurbished
battery packs, and we don't know the quality of that
refurbishment.
Reply by Lasse Langwadt Christensen●November 7, 20222022-11-07
mandag den 7. november 2022 kl. 23.22.37 UTC+1 skrev Ricky:
> On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 6:06:31 PM UTC-4, Joe Gwinn wrote:
> > On Mon, 07 Nov 2022 12:45:28 -0800, John Larkin
> > <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:
> >
> > >On Mon, 7 Nov 2022 14:37:56 -0500, bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote:
> > >
> > >>On 11/7/2022 11:00 AM, John Larkin wrote:
> > >>> On Mon, 7 Nov 2022 09:53:38 -0500, bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> On 11/6/2022 12:35 PM, John Larkin wrote:
> > >>>>> Today's NYT describes a nasty fire in an apartment building in
> > >>>>> Manhattan, started by a bicycle battery. There have been 200
> > >>>>> battery-ignited fires in Manhattan so far this year, with six deaths.
> > >>>>> Unless battery quality improves somehow, buildings will need fireproof
> > >>>>> vaults for parking bikes and scooters.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> I see lots of electric scooters and bikes on the streets of San
> > >>>>> Francisco lately. Some have gigantic batteries. Those could become
> > >>>>> hazards as they age. Theft is common so people want to take their
> > >>>>> rides indoors.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> There is also a full-page ad trashing Tesla, claiming that Autopilot
> > >>>>> won't see a kid in the road.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Good thing Teslas can drive themselves, as their owners tend to not be
> > >>>> very good at doing it on their own
> > >>>
> > >>> Same with Volvo drivers.
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>I used to think of Volvos as an MD's car. But the Volvo used to be a
> > >>Saab if they were a doctor of psychiatry
> > >
> > >Saabs were great cars, between fires. Bad rivets on a fuse panel.
> > I wonder if Saab used Lucas electric stuff. Volvos did.
> >
> > All hail Lucas, the Prince of Darkness! Sound the Trumpets!
> > >I theorize that Volvo drivers are bad drivers, had a wreck, and now
> > >want something "safe". Or just like ugly cars.
> > Well, they are safe, to the degree that any car can be safe.
> >
> > Something like ten years ago, about 10:30AM on a clear dry day, I was
> > rear-ended on Route 128 (the inner ring road around Boston) while
> > slowing down and moving towards an exit ramp. I was hit by a fellow
> > coming off the corresponding in-ramp, acceleration to match speed with
> > a space in passing traffic, looking in the wrong direction. Full
> > speed impact - he never saw me. Nor did I see him, as he was in my
> > blind spot. I knew I;d been hit, because nothing else could have
> > caused that hard a shove.
> >
> > Both cars were totaled. But nobody was hurt. Neither windshield was
> > broken, front or back. But the most amazing thing was that I did not
> > have any whiplash - the Volvo seats were built to absorb the energy,
> > and it worked.
> >
> > My wife, seeing her husband walk away from such a crash, promptly
> > bought herself a Volvo. But she didn't like it all that much, because
> > it steered like a truck (which was always true), and had too large a
> > turning circle (which was a later development as the engine outgrew
> > the engine compartment, limiting how far the front wheels could turn).
> > (She got an Audi Q3.)
> I always liked the handling of Volvos. They were very well balanced. I could take a highway entrance ramp at increasing speed, right up to the point where all four wheels would start to drift. I've never had a car that did that. It was always the rear for rear wheel drive cars, or the front for front drive cars. The one extreme example of that was the a Corvair I owned for less than a year. It died like most Corvairs, going in reverse while in a forward gear. The autocross guys loved being able to get the rear of the car to go around the turn almost in front of the front wheels.
>
On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 6:06:31 PM UTC-4, Joe Gwinn wrote:
> On Mon, 07 Nov 2022 12:45:28 -0800, John Larkin
> <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:
>
> >On Mon, 7 Nov 2022 14:37:56 -0500, bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote:
> >
> >>On 11/7/2022 11:00 AM, John Larkin wrote:
> >>> On Mon, 7 Nov 2022 09:53:38 -0500, bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On 11/6/2022 12:35 PM, John Larkin wrote:
> >>>>> Today's NYT describes a nasty fire in an apartment building in
> >>>>> Manhattan, started by a bicycle battery. There have been 200
> >>>>> battery-ignited fires in Manhattan so far this year, with six deaths.
> >>>>> Unless battery quality improves somehow, buildings will need fireproof
> >>>>> vaults for parking bikes and scooters.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I see lots of electric scooters and bikes on the streets of San
> >>>>> Francisco lately. Some have gigantic batteries. Those could become
> >>>>> hazards as they age. Theft is common so people want to take their
> >>>>> rides indoors.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> There is also a full-page ad trashing Tesla, claiming that Autopilot
> >>>>> won't see a kid in the road.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Good thing Teslas can drive themselves, as their owners tend to not be
> >>>> very good at doing it on their own
> >>>
> >>> Same with Volvo drivers.
> >>>
> >>
> >>I used to think of Volvos as an MD's car. But the Volvo used to be a
> >>Saab if they were a doctor of psychiatry
> >
> >Saabs were great cars, between fires. Bad rivets on a fuse panel.
> I wonder if Saab used Lucas electric stuff. Volvos did.
>
> All hail Lucas, the Prince of Darkness! Sound the Trumpets!
> >I theorize that Volvo drivers are bad drivers, had a wreck, and now
> >want something "safe". Or just like ugly cars.
> Well, they are safe, to the degree that any car can be safe.
>
> Something like ten years ago, about 10:30AM on a clear dry day, I was
> rear-ended on Route 128 (the inner ring road around Boston) while
> slowing down and moving towards an exit ramp. I was hit by a fellow
> coming off the corresponding in-ramp, acceleration to match speed with
> a space in passing traffic, looking in the wrong direction. Full
> speed impact - he never saw me. Nor did I see him, as he was in my
> blind spot. I knew I;d been hit, because nothing else could have
> caused that hard a shove.
>
> Both cars were totaled. But nobody was hurt. Neither windshield was
> broken, front or back. But the most amazing thing was that I did not
> have any whiplash - the Volvo seats were built to absorb the energy,
> and it worked.
>
> My wife, seeing her husband walk away from such a crash, promptly
> bought herself a Volvo. But she didn't like it all that much, because
> it steered like a truck (which was always true), and had too large a
> turning circle (which was a later development as the engine outgrew
> the engine compartment, limiting how far the front wheels could turn).
> (She got an Audi Q3.)
I always liked the handling of Volvos. They were very well balanced. I could take a highway entrance ramp at increasing speed, right up to the point where all four wheels would start to drift. I've never had a car that did that. It was always the rear for rear wheel drive cars, or the front for front drive cars. The one extreme example of that was the a Corvair I owned for less than a year. It died like most Corvairs, going in reverse while in a forward gear. The autocross guys loved being able to get the rear of the car to go around the turn almost in front of the front wheels.
--
Rick C.
+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Reply by Joe Gwinn●November 7, 20222022-11-07
On Mon, 07 Nov 2022 12:45:28 -0800, John Larkin
<jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:
>On Mon, 7 Nov 2022 14:37:56 -0500, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
>
>>On 11/7/2022 11:00 AM, John Larkin wrote:
>>> On Mon, 7 Nov 2022 09:53:38 -0500, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 11/6/2022 12:35 PM, John Larkin wrote:
>>>>> Today's NYT describes a nasty fire in an apartment building in
>>>>> Manhattan, started by a bicycle battery. There have been 200
>>>>> battery-ignited fires in Manhattan so far this year, with six deaths.
>>>>> Unless battery quality improves somehow, buildings will need fireproof
>>>>> vaults for parking bikes and scooters.
>>>>>
>>>>> I see lots of electric scooters and bikes on the streets of San
>>>>> Francisco lately. Some have gigantic batteries. Those could become
>>>>> hazards as they age. Theft is common so people want to take their
>>>>> rides indoors.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is also a full-page ad trashing Tesla, claiming that Autopilot
>>>>> won't see a kid in the road.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Good thing Teslas can drive themselves, as their owners tend to not be
>>>> very good at doing it on their own
>>>
>>> Same with Volvo drivers.
>>>
>>
>>I used to think of Volvos as an MD's car. But the Volvo used to be a
>>Saab if they were a doctor of psychiatry
>
>Saabs were great cars, between fires. Bad rivets on a fuse panel.
I wonder if Saab used Lucas electric stuff. Volvos did.
All hail Lucas, the Prince of Darkness! Sound the Trumpets!
>I theorize that Volvo drivers are bad drivers, had a wreck, and now
>want something "safe". Or just like ugly cars.
Well, they are safe, to the degree that any car can be safe.
Something like ten years ago, about 10:30AM on a clear dry day, I was
rear-ended on Route 128 (the inner ring road around Boston) while
slowing down and moving towards an exit ramp. I was hit by a fellow
coming off the corresponding in-ramp, acceleration to match speed with
a space in passing traffic, looking in the wrong direction. Full
speed impact - he never saw me. Nor did I see him, as he was in my
blind spot. I knew I;d been hit, because nothing else could have
caused that hard a shove.
Both cars were totaled. But nobody was hurt. Neither windshield was
broken, front or back. But the most amazing thing was that I did not
have any whiplash - the Volvo seats were built to absorb the energy,
and it worked.
My wife, seeing her husband walk away from such a crash, promptly
bought herself a Volvo. But she didn't like it all that much, because
it steered like a truck (which was always true), and had too large a
turning circle (which was a later development as the engine outgrew
the engine compartment, limiting how far the front wheels could turn).
(She got an Audi Q3.)
Joe Gwinn
Reply by John Larkin●November 7, 20222022-11-07
On Mon, 7 Nov 2022 14:37:56 -0500, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
>On 11/7/2022 11:00 AM, John Larkin wrote:
>> On Mon, 7 Nov 2022 09:53:38 -0500, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 11/6/2022 12:35 PM, John Larkin wrote:
>>>> Today's NYT describes a nasty fire in an apartment building in
>>>> Manhattan, started by a bicycle battery. There have been 200
>>>> battery-ignited fires in Manhattan so far this year, with six deaths.
>>>> Unless battery quality improves somehow, buildings will need fireproof
>>>> vaults for parking bikes and scooters.
>>>>
>>>> I see lots of electric scooters and bikes on the streets of San
>>>> Francisco lately. Some have gigantic batteries. Those could become
>>>> hazards as they age. Theft is common so people want to take their
>>>> rides indoors.
>>>>
>>>> There is also a full-page ad trashing Tesla, claiming that Autopilot
>>>> won't see a kid in the road.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Good thing Teslas can drive themselves, as their owners tend to not be
>>> very good at doing it on their own
>>
>> Same with Volvo drivers.
>>
>
>I used to think of Volvos as an MD's car. But the Volvo used to be a
>Saab if they were a doctor of psychiatry
Saabs were great cars, between fires. Bad rivets on a fuse panel.
I theorize that Volvo drivers are bad drivers, had a wreck, and now
want something "safe". Or just like ugly cars.
Reply by bitrex●November 7, 20222022-11-07
On 11/7/2022 11:00 AM, John Larkin wrote:
> On Mon, 7 Nov 2022 09:53:38 -0500, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
>
>> On 11/6/2022 12:35 PM, John Larkin wrote:
>>> Today's NYT describes a nasty fire in an apartment building in
>>> Manhattan, started by a bicycle battery. There have been 200
>>> battery-ignited fires in Manhattan so far this year, with six deaths.
>>> Unless battery quality improves somehow, buildings will need fireproof
>>> vaults for parking bikes and scooters.
>>>
>>> I see lots of electric scooters and bikes on the streets of San
>>> Francisco lately. Some have gigantic batteries. Those could become
>>> hazards as they age. Theft is common so people want to take their
>>> rides indoors.
>>>
>>> There is also a full-page ad trashing Tesla, claiming that Autopilot
>>> won't see a kid in the road.
>>>
>>
>> Good thing Teslas can drive themselves, as their owners tend to not be
>> very good at doing it on their own
>
> Same with Volvo drivers.
>
I used to think of Volvos as an MD's car. But the Volvo used to be a
Saab if they were a doctor of psychiatry
Reply by John Larkin●November 7, 20222022-11-07
On Mon, 7 Nov 2022 09:53:38 -0500, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
>On 11/6/2022 12:35 PM, John Larkin wrote:
>> Today's NYT describes a nasty fire in an apartment building in
>> Manhattan, started by a bicycle battery. There have been 200
>> battery-ignited fires in Manhattan so far this year, with six deaths.
>> Unless battery quality improves somehow, buildings will need fireproof
>> vaults for parking bikes and scooters.
>>
>> I see lots of electric scooters and bikes on the streets of San
>> Francisco lately. Some have gigantic batteries. Those could become
>> hazards as they age. Theft is common so people want to take their
>> rides indoors.
>>
>> There is also a full-page ad trashing Tesla, claiming that Autopilot
>> won't see a kid in the road.
>>
>
>Good thing Teslas can drive themselves, as their owners tend to not be
>very good at doing it on their own
Same with Volvo drivers.
Reply by bitrex●November 7, 20222022-11-07
On 11/6/2022 12:35 PM, John Larkin wrote:
> Today's NYT describes a nasty fire in an apartment building in
> Manhattan, started by a bicycle battery. There have been 200
> battery-ignited fires in Manhattan so far this year, with six deaths.
> Unless battery quality improves somehow, buildings will need fireproof
> vaults for parking bikes and scooters.
>
> I see lots of electric scooters and bikes on the streets of San
> Francisco lately. Some have gigantic batteries. Those could become
> hazards as they age. Theft is common so people want to take their
> rides indoors.
>
> There is also a full-page ad trashing Tesla, claiming that Autopilot
> won't see a kid in the road.
>
Good thing Teslas can drive themselves, as their owners tend to not be
very good at doing it on their own
Reply by Ed Lee●November 7, 20222022-11-07
On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 10:08:51 AM UTC-8, John Larkin wrote:
> On Sun, 6 Nov 2022 09:45:18 -0800 (PST), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
> <lang...@fonz.dk> wrote:
>
> >søndag den 6. november 2022 kl. 18.35.33 UTC+1 skrev John Larkin:
> >> Today's NYT describes a nasty fire in an apartment building in
> >> Manhattan, started by a bicycle battery. There have been 200
> >> battery-ignited fires in Manhattan so far this year, with six deaths.
> >> Unless battery quality improves somehow, buildings will need fireproof
> >> vaults for parking bikes and scooters.
> >
> >do you leave your battery powered tools, laptop or cellphone outside just to be sure?
> >
> I don't have any battery powered tools. Mo has a little whipper thing
> to make her own foamy coffee, but it uses (a lot of) AA batteries.
>
> I haven't heard of fires from phones or laptops. They use relatively
> small, low peak power flat batteries so may be less of a fire hazard.
> Better thermals and maybe different construction from vehicle
> batteries.
>
> Kilograms (or tons) of densely packed batteries is a whole nother
> story. Fires seem to be in vehicle batteries.
>
> There aren't many cheap Chinese laptops or phones being sold here;
> Apple and Dell and Samsung can't take risks with bad batteries. But
> there are lots of cheap Chinese bikes and scooters.
It's the same Panasonic 1865/2170/4860 cells as in the laptops. I stick with 1865s because of the larger surface area vs. energy density for cooling. My primary battery is pouch cells, but it's around 50% capacity and not able to catch fire. I am planning on replacing them with 1865 as well.
An EV is like running 1000 laptops.