On Fri, 22 Dec 2023 11:10:08 -0000 (UTC), Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> wrote:>On 2023-12-21, JM wrote: >> On Thu, 21 Dec 2023 15:24:34 -0000 (UTC), Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> >> wrote: >> >>>I've never used ltspice / circuit simulators before; though based on >>>seeing posts to the group from various people seems it's something I >>>might find useful (noting, of course, this is a hobby rather than >>>something I get paid for). >>> >>>Looked it up, and seems ltspice is a windows/mac application, whereas >>>the native equivalent on linux would be ngspice. To avoid starting with >>>one and switching because it's "bad" later on; has anyone used >>>ngspice and found it a decent alternative to ltspice? >> >> Use Spectrum Software's Micro-Cap (latest version is 12.2.05) instead >> of either of the above. Although popular, unless you want to simulate >> Linear Technology's controller IC's, I cannot see any reason why >> anyone with any sense would use it. > >Seems this one's abandoned now? Which I guess isn't necessarily a >problem, unless the "download" links at archive.org don't work... > >Thanks for the alternative suggestion too!Certainly LT Spice has killed a lot of other simulation software, and companies. I wonder if Raspberry Pi is doing something similar.
Spice Simulators - ngspice v. ltspice ?
Started by ●December 21, 2023
Reply by ●December 22, 20232023-12-22
Reply by ●December 22, 20232023-12-22
On 2023-12-22, John Larkin wrote:> On Fri, 22 Dec 2023 11:10:08 -0000 (UTC), Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> > wrote: >>On 2023-12-21, JM wrote: >>> [..] >>> Use Spectrum Software's Micro-Cap (latest version is 12.2.05) instead >>> of either of the above. Although popular, unless you want to simulate >>> Linear Technology's controller IC's, I cannot see any reason why >>> anyone with any sense would use it. >> >>Seems this one's abandoned now? Which I guess isn't necessarily a >>problem, unless the "download" links at archive.org don't work... >> >>Thanks for the alternative suggestion too! > > Certainly LT Spice has killed a lot of other simulation software, and > companies.I mean, "Micro-Cap" was only killed off in the last year or two from what Wikipedia says (otherwise having lasted 40 years). It almost seems that the company was rather small and the owner(s) just closed up shop.> > I wonder if Raspberry Pi is doing something similar. >In what sense? I mean, there are a few handfuls of single-board PC makers out there now all chasing the "XYZPi" name since "Raspberry Pi" got big. -- |_|O|_| |_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert |O|O|O| PGP: DDAB 23FB 19FA 7D85 1CC1 E067 6D65 70E5 4CE7 2860
Reply by ●December 22, 20232023-12-22
On Fri, 22 Dec 2023 06:44:26 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:>On a sunny day (Thu, 21 Dec 2023 15:24:34 -0000 (UTC)) it happened Dan Purgert ><dan@djph.net> wrote in <slrnuo8m8s.clb.dan@djph.net>: > >>I've never used ltspice / circuit simulators before; though based on >>seeing posts to the group from various people seems it's something I >>might find useful (noting, of course, this is a hobby rather than >>something I get paid for). >> >>Looked it up, and seems ltspice is a windows/mac application, whereas >>the native equivalent on linux would be ngspice. To avoid starting with >>one and switching because it's "bad" later on; has anyone used >>ngspice and found it a decent alternative to ltspice? > >I have LTsice running in Linux in 'wine' windows simulator on some old PC. >Not that I use it much.. >I have used it to draw filter curves, that is useful, >avoids lots of maaz or what was it matzs? anyways.... >Yesterday I designed a 3rd order LC filter by just guessing and tweaking in LT Spice. It's actual funtion is to generate a clean CMOS-logic 1 ns time delay, for a guy who wants a ns of timing margin. I can guess and tweak higher order filters. 5th order is my record, but that's tough. You can diverge, get lost in space.
Reply by ●December 22, 20232023-12-22
On Fri, 22 Dec 2023 15:07:48 -0000 (UTC), Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> wrote:>On 2023-12-22, John Larkin wrote: >> On Fri, 22 Dec 2023 11:10:08 -0000 (UTC), Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> >> wrote: >>>On 2023-12-21, JM wrote: >>>> [..] >>>> Use Spectrum Software's Micro-Cap (latest version is 12.2.05) instead >>>> of either of the above. Although popular, unless you want to simulate >>>> Linear Technology's controller IC's, I cannot see any reason why >>>> anyone with any sense would use it. >>> >>>Seems this one's abandoned now? Which I guess isn't necessarily a >>>problem, unless the "download" links at archive.org don't work... >>> >>>Thanks for the alternative suggestion too! >> >> Certainly LT Spice has killed a lot of other simulation software, and >> companies. > >I mean, "Micro-Cap" was only killed off in the last year or two from >what Wikipedia says (otherwise having lasted 40 years). It almost seems >that the company was rather small and the owner(s) just closed up shop. > >> >> I wonder if Raspberry Pi is doing something similar. >> > >In what sense? I mean, there are a few handfuls of single-board PC >makers out there now all chasing the "XYZPi" name since "Raspberry Pi" >got big.A dual-core CPU chip for 60 cents, RP2040, with 20 years of guaranteed supply, and a $70 dev+debug system is hard to compete with. A generation of kids will design around Pi chips.
Reply by ●December 22, 20232023-12-22
fredag den 22. december 2023 kl. 17.05.34 UTC+1 skrev John Larkin:> On Fri, 22 Dec 2023 15:07:48 -0000 (UTC), Dan Purgert <d...@djph.net> > wrote: > > >On 2023-12-22, John Larkin wrote: > >> On Fri, 22 Dec 2023 11:10:08 -0000 (UTC), Dan Purgert <d...@djph.net> > >> wrote: > >>>On 2023-12-21, JM wrote: > >>>> [..] > >>>> Use Spectrum Software's Micro-Cap (latest version is 12.2.05) instead > >>>> of either of the above. Although popular, unless you want to simulate > >>>> Linear Technology's controller IC's, I cannot see any reason why > >>>> anyone with any sense would use it. > >>> > >>>Seems this one's abandoned now? Which I guess isn't necessarily a > >>>problem, unless the "download" links at archive.org don't work... > >>> > >>>Thanks for the alternative suggestion too! > >> > >> Certainly LT Spice has killed a lot of other simulation software, and > >> companies. > > > >I mean, "Micro-Cap" was only killed off in the last year or two from > >what Wikipedia says (otherwise having lasted 40 years). It almost seems > >that the company was rather small and the owner(s) just closed up shop. > > > >> > >> I wonder if Raspberry Pi is doing something similar. > >> > > > >In what sense? I mean, there are a few handfuls of single-board PC > >makers out there now all chasing the "XYZPi" name since "Raspberry Pi" > >got big. > A dual-core CPU chip for 60 cents, RP2040, with 20 years of guaranteed > supply, and a $70 dev+debug system is hard to compete with. A > generation of kids will design around Pi chips.ARM chips..
Reply by ●December 22, 20232023-12-22
John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com> wrote:> On Fri, 22 Dec 2023 06:44:26 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> > wrote: > >> On a sunny day (Thu, 21 Dec 2023 15:24:34 -0000 (UTC)) it happened Dan Purgert >> <dan@djph.net> wrote in <slrnuo8m8s.clb.dan@djph.net>: >> >>> I've never used ltspice / circuit simulators before; though based on >>> seeing posts to the group from various people seems it's something I >>> might find useful (noting, of course, this is a hobby rather than >>> something I get paid for). >>> >>> Looked it up, and seems ltspice is a windows/mac application, whereas >>> the native equivalent on linux would be ngspice. To avoid starting with >>> one and switching because it's "bad" later on; has anyone used >>> ngspice and found it a decent alternative to ltspice? >> >> I have LTsice running in Linux in 'wine' windows simulator on some old PC. >> Not that I use it much.. >> I have used it to draw filter curves, that is useful, >> avoids lots of maaz or what was it matzs? anyways.... >> > > Yesterday I designed a 3rd order LC filter by just guessing and > tweaking in LT Spice. It's actual funtion is to generate a clean > CMOS-logic 1 ns time delay, for a guy who wants a ns of timing margin. > > I can guess and tweak higher order filters. 5th order is my record, > but that's tough. You can diverge, get lost in space. > >It’s much easier if you parameterize each section in terms of f_0 and Q, rather than L and C directly. That’s what makes dip meters so useful for hacking together filter protos. Cheers Phil Hobbs -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Reply by ●December 22, 20232023-12-22
On 2023-12-22, John Larkin wrote:> On Fri, 22 Dec 2023 15:07:48 -0000 (UTC), Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> > wrote: > >>On 2023-12-22, John Larkin wrote: >>> On Fri, 22 Dec 2023 11:10:08 -0000 (UTC), Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> >>> wrote: >>>>On 2023-12-21, JM wrote: >>>>> [..] >>>>> Use Spectrum Software's Micro-Cap (latest version is 12.2.05) instead >>>>> of either of the above. Although popular, unless you want to simulate >>>>> Linear Technology's controller IC's, I cannot see any reason why >>>>> anyone with any sense would use it. >>>> >>>>Seems this one's abandoned now? Which I guess isn't necessarily a >>>>problem, unless the "download" links at archive.org don't work... >>>> >>>>Thanks for the alternative suggestion too! >>> >>> Certainly LT Spice has killed a lot of other simulation software, and >>> companies. >> >>I mean, "Micro-Cap" was only killed off in the last year or two from >>what Wikipedia says (otherwise having lasted 40 years). It almost seems >>that the company was rather small and the owner(s) just closed up shop. >> >>> >>> I wonder if Raspberry Pi is doing something similar. >>> >> >>In what sense? I mean, there are a few handfuls of single-board PC >>makers out there now all chasing the "XYZPi" name since "Raspberry Pi" >>got big. > > A dual-core CPU chip for 60 cents, RP2040, with 20 years of guaranteed > supply, and a $70 dev+debug system is hard to compete with. A > generation of kids will design around Pi chips.Oh, you were talking about "Raspberry Pi" the company, not the product(s) they offer... makes a lot more sense now :) -- |_|O|_| |_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert |O|O|O| PGP: DDAB 23FB 19FA 7D85 1CC1 E067 6D65 70E5 4CE7 2860
Reply by ●December 22, 20232023-12-22
On Fri, 22 Dec 2023 17:31:19 -0000 (UTC), Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:>John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com> wrote: >> On Fri, 22 Dec 2023 06:44:26 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >> wrote: >> >>> On a sunny day (Thu, 21 Dec 2023 15:24:34 -0000 (UTC)) it happened Dan Purgert >>> <dan@djph.net> wrote in <slrnuo8m8s.clb.dan@djph.net>: >>> >>>> I've never used ltspice / circuit simulators before; though based on >>>> seeing posts to the group from various people seems it's something I >>>> might find useful (noting, of course, this is a hobby rather than >>>> something I get paid for). >>>> >>>> Looked it up, and seems ltspice is a windows/mac application, whereas >>>> the native equivalent on linux would be ngspice. To avoid starting with >>>> one and switching because it's "bad" later on; has anyone used >>>> ngspice and found it a decent alternative to ltspice? >>> >>> I have LTsice running in Linux in 'wine' windows simulator on some old PC. >>> Not that I use it much.. >>> I have used it to draw filter curves, that is useful, >>> avoids lots of maaz or what was it matzs? anyways.... >>> >> >> Yesterday I designed a 3rd order LC filter by just guessing and >> tweaking in LT Spice. It's actual funtion is to generate a clean >> CMOS-logic 1 ns time delay, for a guy who wants a ns of timing margin. >> >> I can guess and tweak higher order filters. 5th order is my record, >> but that's tough. You can diverge, get lost in space. >> >> > >It�s much easier if you parameterize each section in terms of f_0 and Q, >rather than L and C directly. That�s what makes dip meters so useful for >hacking together filter protos. > >Cheers > >Phil HobbsFor active filters, the sections don't interact. LCs are different. I have to use standard part values, ideally ones that we have in stock. And I don't have to conform to anyone's mathematical ideal, Butterworth or Cauer or anything, I just want it to work in my box.
Reply by ●December 23, 20232023-12-23
On a sunny day (Fri, 22 Dec 2023 17:31:19 -0000 (UTC)) it happened Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote in <um4h57$1lcns$1@dont-email.me>:>John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com> wrote: >> On Fri, 22 Dec 2023 06:44:26 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >> wrote: >> >>> On a sunny day (Thu, 21 Dec 2023 15:24:34 -0000 (UTC)) it happened Dan Purgert >>> <dan@djph.net> wrote in <slrnuo8m8s.clb.dan@djph.net>: >>> >>>> I've never used ltspice / circuit simulators before; though based on >>>> seeing posts to the group from various people seems it's something I >>>> might find useful (noting, of course, this is a hobby rather than >>>> something I get paid for). >>>> >>>> Looked it up, and seems ltspice is a windows/mac application, whereas >>>> the native equivalent on linux would be ngspice. To avoid starting with >>>> one and switching because it's "bad" later on; has anyone used >>>> ngspice and found it a decent alternative to ltspice? >>> >>> I have LTsice running in Linux in 'wine' windows simulator on some old PC. >>> Not that I use it much.. >>> I have used it to draw filter curves, that is useful, >>> avoids lots of maaz or what was it matzs? anyways.... >>> >> >> Yesterday I designed a 3rd order LC filter by just guessing and >> tweaking in LT Spice. It's actual funtion is to generate a clean >> CMOS-logic 1 ns time delay, for a guy who wants a ns of timing margin. >> >> I can guess and tweak higher order filters. 5th order is my record, >> but that's tough. You can diverge, get lost in space. >> >> > >It’s much easier if you parameterize each section in terms of f_0 and Q, >rather than L and C directly. That’s what makes dip meters so useful for >hacking together filter protos.Yes B = f0 / Q is one of those quick things I use a lot.
Reply by ●December 23, 20232023-12-23
Dan Purgert wrote:> Jeroen Belleman wrote: >> Wanderer wrote: >>> The difficulty with the LTspice interface is that it uses "verb" mode >>> instead of "noun" mode. In other words, you need to select the action >>> and then the object, instead of the object and then the action. This >>> differs from how a lot of other programs work. Also LTspice doesn't >>> do schematics for PCB Layout, so you are concurrently using another >>> schematic layout program which is a pain. I had changed LTspice's >>> hotkeys to match Altium's to avoid hitting the wrong keys. >> >> Schematics for PCB layout have requirements so different from >> schematics for simulations that I don't even *want* to use the >> same tool for both. >> >> I have KiCad for one and LTspice for the other, both on a Linux >> machine. I never simulate complete designs; only sections that >> need closer attention. >> >> It appears KiCads's eeschema can be used as a schematic entry >> front-end for ngspice. I never yet bothered. > > I ran across that myself yesterday evening, but not going to touch it > until I have a better handle on what rabbit hole I'm falling into here > (although it does seem that one "must" use ngspice to work with KiCAD, > if I'm read and understood the brief overview properly).eeschema allows users to export netlists. ngspice is not a necessary adjunct as anything able to input a netlist will work. eeschema's export even enables enthusiastic LTSPice proselytes to remain on familiar turf in their own rabbit hole: <http://www.ecircuitcenter.com/RunSPICE.htm> Regardless, you seem to be a SPICE newbie. So LTSpice is probably your best bet. Because it offers the shallowest rabbit hole to master. Danke, -- Don, KB7RPU, https://www.qsl.net/kb7rpu There was a young lady named Bright Whose speed was far faster than light; She set out one day In a relative way And returned on the previous night.
