On a sunny day (Sat, 9 Dec 2023 09:43:09 -0800 (PST)) it happened Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote in <8befbf42-2233-4ad3-9640-8443034b3caen@googlegroups.com>:>On Saturday, December 9, 2023 at 12:19:54 PM UTC-5, John Larkin wro= >te: >> On Sat, 9 Dec 2023 09:07:05 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs >> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >On Saturday, December 9, 2023 at 11:25:51?AM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:= > >> >> On Sat, 9 Dec 2023 07:13:48 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs >> >> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >On Friday, December 8, 2023 at 11:05:59?AM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:= > >> >> >> https://cosmosmagazine.com/science/mathematics/ripple-effects-of-ma= >ths-crisis-spread-to-engineering/ >> >> >> >> >> >> (The aussies call it 'maths') >> >> > >> >> >This may come as a surprise to you, but engineers were NEVER good at = >math. >> >> I have a couple that are. But I have more crazy ideas - that become >> >> products - than they do. Is that a correlation somehow? >> >> >Hence all these charts, graphs, nomo's, table lookups, handbooks, sta= >ndards, arithmeticization of transcendental math ( transforms) and whatever= > else it took to get them *numbers* in least time, if at all. Engineers use= >d to be exceptionally good at arithmetic. They used to be ridiculously path= >etic programmers totally lacking in analytical and organizational skills, a= >nd probably still are AFAIK. Then don't even let them near singularities. H= >eaviside's so-called analysis is mere symbolic arithmetic. Author of articl= >e is a case point, a complete idiot. >> >> Einstein almost invented a few things, like the laser, but didn't. >> >> That's curious. >> > >> >Actually he did, he collaborated on the design of a refrigerator, and it= > was patented. >> > >> >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einstein_refrigerator >> > >> "It has been suggested that most of the actual inventing was done by >> Szilárd". That aligns with my observation that professor types seldo= >m >> have original ideas. > >Whoever wrote that is a fool. Einstein was obviously providing high level g= >uidance on the project, and Szilard was tasked with working the details. Ei= >nstein was busy with more important things than to waste himself on minutia=His fridge was a disaster He failed to unite the forces of nature Aspect's experiment proved his thinking wrong. The E=M C^something was not his Same for that other thing he put his name on. He was made a hero because he suggested to the then US precedent eh precidend . . whatever to further devellop reactions leading to the nuculear bomb Jew's hero. Mass murderer (Hiroshima Nagasaki) Endlessly repeating bis babble stops advancement in fishsicks
ee's without math
Started by ●December 8, 2023
Reply by ●December 10, 20232023-12-10
Reply by ●December 10, 20232023-12-10
On Sunday, December 10, 2023 at 5:15:30 PM UTC+11, Jan Panteltje wrote:> On a sunny day (Sat, 9 Dec 2023 09:43:09 -0800 (PST)) it happened Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote in <8befbf42-2233-4ad3...@googlegroups.com>: > >On Saturday, December 9, 2023 at 12:19:54 PM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote: > >> On Sat, 9 Dec 2023 09:07:05 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >On Saturday, December 9, 2023 at 11:25:51?AM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:= > >> >> On Sat, 9 Dec 2023 07:13:48 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> >On Friday, December 8, 2023 at 11:05:59?AM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:=<snip>> >> "It has been suggested that most of the actual inventing was done by Szilárd". That aligns with my observation that professor types seldom have original ideas. > > > >Whoever wrote that is a fool. Einstein was obviously providing high level guidance on the project, and Szilard was tasked with working the details. Einstein was busy with more important things than to waste himself on minutia. > > His fridge was a disaster.It wasn't. It works fine in certain specialised applications. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einstein_refrigerator> He failed to unite the forces of natureSo has everybody else, so far. That doesn't devalue what he did do.> Aspect's experiment proved his thinking wrong.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspect%27s_experiment It resolved the Einstein–Podolsky–Rosen (EPR) paradox which isn't actually proving them wrong - merely answering the interesting question that they were asking/ In physics you get brownie points for asking the right question, adn that was definitely an excellent question.,> The E=M C^2 something was not his .He provided a more sensible and comprehensive justification for the equation than anybody else.> Same for that other thing he put his name on.Jan hasn't got a clue.> He was made a hero because he suggested to the then US president to further develop reactions leading to the nuclear bomb.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einstein%E2%80%93Szilard_letter In fact it warned Roosevelt that Germany might try to develop a nuclear bomb - as indeed they did. That America responded by developing their own first is scarcely Einstein's fault.> Jew's hero.Not only Jews.> Mass murderer (Hiroshima Nagasaki).He wasn't asked whether the Americans ought to drop the bomb. Modern war is mass murder. It's hardly fair to blame Einstein for those two incidents when he couldn't have done anything to stop them. The Einstein Slizard letter would have got to Roosevelt even if Einstein hadn't added his signature.> Endlessly repeating bis babble stops advancement in physics.Einstein didn't babble, and made substantial contributions to physics. Jan Panteltje lacks the wit to understand any of them. -- Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply by ●December 10, 20232023-12-10
On Sunday, December 10, 2023 at 1:15:30 AM UTC-5, Jan Panteltje wrote:> On a sunny day (Sat, 9 Dec 2023 09:43:09 -0800 (PST)) it happened Fred Bloggs > <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote in > <8befbf42-2233-4ad3...@googlegroups.com>: > > >On Saturday, December 9, 2023 at 12:19:54 PM UTC-5, John Larkin wro= > >te: > >> On Sat, 9 Dec 2023 09:07:05 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs > >> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >On Saturday, December 9, 2023 at 11:25:51?AM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:= > > > >> >> On Sat, 9 Dec 2023 07:13:48 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs > >> >> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> >On Friday, December 8, 2023 at 11:05:59?AM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:= > > > >> >> >> https://cosmosmagazine.com/science/mathematics/ripple-effects-of-ma= > >ths-crisis-spread-to-engineering/ > >> >> >> > >> >> >> (The aussies call it 'maths') > >> >> > > >> >> >This may come as a surprise to you, but engineers were NEVER good at = > >math. > >> >> I have a couple that are. But I have more crazy ideas - that become > >> >> products - than they do. Is that a correlation somehow? > >> >> >Hence all these charts, graphs, nomo's, table lookups, handbooks, sta= > >ndards, arithmeticization of transcendental math ( transforms) and whatever= > > else it took to get them *numbers* in least time, if at all. Engineers use= > >d to be exceptionally good at arithmetic. They used to be ridiculously path= > >etic programmers totally lacking in analytical and organizational skills, a= > >nd probably still are AFAIK. Then don't even let them near singularities. H= > >eaviside's so-called analysis is mere symbolic arithmetic. Author of articl= > >e is a case point, a complete idiot. > >> >> Einstein almost invented a few things, like the laser, but didn't. > >> >> That's curious. > >> > > >> >Actually he did, he collaborated on the design of a refrigerator, and it= > > was patented. > >> > > >> >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einstein_refrigerator > >> > > >> "It has been suggested that most of the actual inventing was done by > >> Szilárd". That aligns with my observation that professor types seldo= > >m > >> have original ideas. > > > >Whoever wrote that is a fool. Einstein was obviously providing high level g= > >uidance on the project, and Szilard was tasked with working the details. Ei= > >nstein was busy with more important things than to waste himself on minutia= > > His fridge was a disasterIt was a decent refrigerator, but it wasn't competitive, in cost or efficiency of heat source, with the development of mechanical refrigeration (motor driven compressor) using only recently discovered "freon". Einstein's green refrigerator making a comeback https://phys.org/news/2008-09-einstein-green-refrigerator-comeback.html Sounds like the author of article is clueless of the technology. Then I checked the name, and it's a 'Lisa"- which I assume is a female- confirms my suspicion. The same cooling technology has been used in portable applications, like trailers and similar, for 100 years. Most of them use ammonia, and the heat source is a liquid petroleum fueled flame. NASA has developed a few cooling system using the same principle for space based applications, heat source is solar insolation.> He failed to unite the forces of nature > Aspect's experiment proved his thinking wrong. > The E=M C^something was not his > Same for that other thing he put his name on. > He was made a hero because he suggested to the then US precedent eh precidend . . whatever to further devellop reactions leading to the nuculear bomb > Jew's hero. > Mass murderer (Hiroshima Nagasaki) > Endlessly repeating bis babble stops advancement in fishsicksEinstein was well known as an uber anti-war pacifist, and mingled with a crowd considered to be political radicals by the U.S. government. He was therefore considered a security risk and denied access to classified material of any kind, before, during, and after the war. But they gave that huckster illiterate Tesla top billing for credibility.
Reply by ●December 10, 20232023-12-10
On 12/9/2023 11:25 AM, John Larkin wrote: <snip>> Calculators erased the need to be good at arithmetic. Slide rules > didn't add or subtract or work to 9 places. >Or easily converted to impulse counters. :-) Ed
Reply by ●December 10, 20232023-12-10
On 12/9/2023 11:25 AM, John Larkin wrote:> On Sat, 9 Dec 2023 07:13:48 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs > <bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote: > >> On Friday, December 8, 2023 at 11:05:59?AM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote: >>> https://cosmosmagazine.com/science/mathematics/ripple-effects-of-maths-crisis-spread-to-engineering/ >>> >>> (The aussies call it 'maths') >> >> This may come as a surprise to you, but engineers were NEVER good at math. > > I have a couple that are. But I have more crazy ideas - that become > products - than they do. Is that a correlation somehow? > >> Hence all these charts, graphs, nomo's, table lookups, handbooks, standards, arithmeticization of transcendental math ( transforms) and whatever else it took to get them *numbers* in least time, if at all. Engineers used to be exceptionally good at arithmetic. They used to be ridiculously pathetic programmers totally lacking in analytical and organizational skills, and probably still are AFAIK. Then don't even let them near singularities. Heaviside's so-called analysis is mere symbolic arithmetic. Author of article is a case point, a complete idiot. > > Einstein almost invented a few things, like the laser, but didn't. > That's curious.Heinrich Hertz on his experiments with radio waves: "It's of no use whatsoever ... this is just an experiment that proves Maestro Maxwell was right—we just have these mysterious electromagnetic waves that we cannot see with the naked eye. But they are there." Asked about the applications of his discoveries, Hertz replied: "Nothing, I guess"> Calculators erased the need to be good at arithmetic. Slide rules > didn't add or subtract or work to 9 places. >
Reply by ●December 10, 20232023-12-10
On 12/8/2023 7:20 PM, Cursitor Doom wrote:> On Fri, 08 Dec 2023 15:04:22 -0800, john larkin <jl@650pot.com> wrote: > >> On Fri, 08 Dec 2023 22:01:11 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> On Fri, 08 Dec 2023 08:05:09 -0800, John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> https://cosmosmagazine.com/science/mathematics/ripple-effects-of-maths-crisis-spread-to-engineering/ >>>> >>>> (The aussies call it 'maths') >>> >>> Maxwell's equations. That's where a lot of people decide it's not the >>> life for them! >> >> Of course, very few ee's ever use Maxwell's equations. I never have. > > [...] > > Yes, well, when I said Maxwell's equations I was kind of meaning the > main four that Oliver Heaviside was able to reduce them to. Any decent > RF engineer must surely be familiar with those if not the admittedly > very abstruse Maxwell originals?Most everything you could say about Maxwell's equations in isolation take up a couple pages, it's Maxwell's equations and _boundary conditions_ that you can write a textbook about.
Reply by ●December 10, 20232023-12-10
On 12/8/2023 8:20 PM, Lamont Cranston wrote:> On Friday, December 8, 2023 at 6:21:00 PM UTC-6, Cursitor Doom wrote: >> On Fri, 08 Dec 2023 15:04:22 -0800, john larkin <j...@650pot.com> wrote: >> >>> On Fri, 08 Dec 2023 22:01:11 +0000, Cursitor Doom <c...@notformail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> On Fri, 08 Dec 2023 08:05:09 -0800, John Larkin <j...@997PotHill.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> https://cosmosmagazine.com/science/mathematics/ripple-effects-of-maths-crisis-spread-to-engineering/ >>>>> >>>>> (The aussies call it 'maths') >>>> >>>> Maxwell's equations. That's where a lot of people decide it's not the >>>> life for them! >>> >>> Of course, very few ee's ever use Maxwell's equations. I never have. >> [...] >> >> Yes, well, when I said Maxwell's equations I was kind of meaning the >> main four that Oliver Heaviside was able to reduce them to. Any decent >> RF engineer must surely be familiar with those if not the admittedly >> very abstruse Maxwell originals? > > > Interestingly Oliver Heavyside had something to say about engineers and math. > See page 7 section 8, 9... > Although page 5 section 5 is fun with all the name dropping. Maxwell, Poynting, Hertz, > Faraday and others. > https://macsphere.mcmaster.ca/bitstream/11375/14746/1/fulltext.pdf > MikekHeavyside didn't believe EM propagation was possible inside waveguides, he thought you absolutely needed a second conductor. So seems even he sometimes didn't believe what the math was saying.
Reply by ●December 10, 20232023-12-10
On 12/10/23 19:43, bitrex wrote:> On 12/9/2023 11:25 AM, John Larkin wrote: >> On Sat, 9 Dec 2023 07:13:48 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs >> <bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> On Friday, December 8, 2023 at 11:05:59?AM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote: >>>> https://cosmosmagazine.com/science/mathematics/ripple-effects-of-maths-crisis-spread-to-engineering/ >>>> >>>> (The aussies call it 'maths') >>> >>> This may come as a surprise to you, but engineers were NEVER good at >>> math. >> >> I have a couple that are. But I have more crazy ideas - that become >> products - than they do. Is that a correlation somehow? >> >>> Hence all these charts, graphs, nomo's, table lookups, handbooks, >>> standards, arithmeticization of transcendental math ( transforms) and >>> whatever else it took to get them *numbers* in least time, if at all. >>> Engineers used to be exceptionally good at arithmetic. They used to >>> be ridiculously pathetic programmers totally lacking in analytical >>> and organizational skills, and probably still are AFAIK. Then don't >>> even let them near singularities. Heaviside's so-called analysis is >>> mere symbolic arithmetic. Author of article is a case point, a >>> complete idiot. >> >> Einstein almost invented a few things, like the laser, but didn't. >> That's curious. > > Heinrich Hertz on his experiments with radio waves: > > "It's of no use whatsoever ... this is just an experiment that proves > Maestro Maxwell was right—we just have these mysterious electromagnetic > waves that we cannot see with the naked eye. But they are there." > > Asked about the applications of his discoveries, Hertz replied: > > "Nothing, I guess" >I often get asked that question about high-energy physics. "What good is the Higgs boson?" My answer is usually something along the lines of "Not much, yet. But would we have had electricity if there hadn't been idle gentlemen playing with glass rods and frog legs? We'll have to wait and see." There are currently some applications of accelerators for cancer treatment. Lately everyone wants his own synchrotron light source for things like materials research on very small scales and time spans. They're still a bit too expensive for extreme resolution lithography, but who knows? Jeroen Belleman
Reply by ●December 10, 20232023-12-10
bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:> On 12/8/2023 8:20 PM, Lamont Cranston wrote: >> On Friday, December 8, 2023 at 6:21:00 PM UTC-6, Cursitor Doom wrote: >>> On Fri, 08 Dec 2023 15:04:22 -0800, john larkin <j...@650pot.com> wrote: >>> >>>> On Fri, 08 Dec 2023 22:01:11 +0000, Cursitor Doom <c...@notformail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Fri, 08 Dec 2023 08:05:09 -0800, John Larkin <j...@997PotHill.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> https://cosmosmagazine.com/science/mathematics/ripple-effects-of-maths-crisis-spread-to-engineering/ >>>>>> >>>>>> (The aussies call it 'maths') >>>>> >>>>> Maxwell's equations. That's where a lot of people decide it's not the >>>>> life for them! >>>> >>>> Of course, very few ee's ever use Maxwell's equations. I never have. >>> [...] >>> >>> Yes, well, when I said Maxwell's equations I was kind of meaning the >>> main four that Oliver Heaviside was able to reduce them to. Any decent >>> RF engineer must surely be familiar with those if not the admittedly >>> very abstruse Maxwell originals? >> >> >> Interestingly Oliver Heavyside had something to say about engineers and math. >> See page 7 section 8, 9... >> Although page 5 section 5 is fun with all the name dropping. Maxwell, Poynting, Hertz, >> Faraday and others. >> https://macsphere.mcmaster.ca/bitstream/11375/14746/1/fulltext.pdf >> Mikek > > Heavyside didn't believe EM propagation was possible inside waveguides, > he thought you absolutely needed a second conductor. So seems even he > sometimes didn't believe what the math was saying. >Heaviside’s dates are 1850–1925. The Alexanderson alternator, the first CW transmitter, was invented in 1903. It ran at 200 kHz, iirc, using high speed and many many poles. Even at that, it would have needed a 1-km-wide waveguide, so in H.’s era it really wasn’t possible. Cheers Phil Hobbs -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Reply by ●December 10, 20232023-12-10
søndag den 10. december 2023 kl. 20.45.29 UTC+1 skrev Phil Hobbs:> bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote: > > On 12/8/2023 8:20 PM, Lamont Cranston wrote: > >> On Friday, December 8, 2023 at 6:21:00 PM UTC-6, Cursitor Doom wrote: > >>> On Fri, 08 Dec 2023 15:04:22 -0800, john larkin <j...@650pot.com> wrote: > >>> > >>>> On Fri, 08 Dec 2023 22:01:11 +0000, Cursitor Doom <c...@notformail.com> > >>>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> On Fri, 08 Dec 2023 08:05:09 -0800, John Larkin <j...@997PotHill.com> > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> https://cosmosmagazine.com/science/mathematics/ripple-effects-of-maths-crisis-spread-to-engineering/ > >>>>>> > >>>>>> (The aussies call it 'maths') > >>>>> > >>>>> Maxwell's equations. That's where a lot of people decide it's not the > >>>>> life for them! > >>>> > >>>> Of course, very few ee's ever use Maxwell's equations. I never have. > >>> [...] > >>> > >>> Yes, well, when I said Maxwell's equations I was kind of meaning the > >>> main four that Oliver Heaviside was able to reduce them to. Any decent > >>> RF engineer must surely be familiar with those if not the admittedly > >>> very abstruse Maxwell originals? > >> > >> > >> Interestingly Oliver Heavyside had something to say about engineers and math. > >> See page 7 section 8, 9... > >> Although page 5 section 5 is fun with all the name dropping. Maxwell, Poynting, Hertz, > >> Faraday and others. > >> https://macsphere.mcmaster.ca/bitstream/11375/14746/1/fulltext.pdf > >> Mikek > > > > Heavyside didn't believe EM propagation was possible inside waveguides, > > he thought you absolutely needed a second conductor. So seems even he > > sometimes didn't believe what the math was saying. > > > Heaviside’s dates are 1850–1925. > > The Alexanderson alternator, the first CW transmitter, was invented in > 1903.afaict 1904, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexanderson_alternator patented in 1903: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arc_converter
