Reply by Anthony William Sloman●December 23, 20232023-12-23
On Monday, December 18, 2023 at 3:11:22 AM UTC+11, John Larkin wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Dec 2023 09:08:42 -0000 (UTC), Phil Hobbs
> <pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote:
> >Chris Jones <lugn...@spam.yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> On 11/12/2023 6:45 am, Phil Hobbs wrote:
> >>> bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote:
> >>>> On 12/8/2023 8:20 PM, Lamont Cranston wrote:
> >>>>> On Friday, December 8, 2023 at 6:21:00?PM UTC-6, Cursitor Doom wrote:
> >>>>>> On Fri, 08 Dec 2023 15:04:22 -0800, john larkin <j...@650pot.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Fri, 08 Dec 2023 22:01:11 +0000, Cursitor Doom <c...@notformail.com>
> >>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On Fri, 08 Dec 2023 08:05:09 -0800, John Larkin <j...@997PotHill.com>
> >>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> https://cosmosmagazine.com/science/mathematics/ripple-effects-of-maths-crisis-spread-to-engineering/
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> (The aussies call it 'maths')
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Maxwell's equations. That's where a lot of people decide it's not the
> >>>>>>>> life for them!
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Of course, very few ee's ever use Maxwell's equations. I never have.
> >>>>>> [...]
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Yes, well, when I said Maxwell's equations I was kind of meaning the
> >>>>>> main four that Oliver Heaviside was able to reduce them to. Any decent
> >>>>>> RF engineer must surely be familiar with those if not the admittedly
> >>>>>> very abstruse Maxwell originals?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Interestingly Oliver Heavyside had something to say about engineers and math.
> >>>>> See page 7 section 8, 9...
> >>>>> Although page 5 section 5 is fun with all the name dropping. Maxwell, Poynting, Hertz,
> >>>>> Faraday and others.
> >>>>> https://macsphere.mcmaster.ca/bitstream/11375/14746/1/fulltext.pdf
> >>>>
> >>>> Heavyside didn't believe EM propagation was possible inside waveguides,
> >>>> he thought you absolutely needed a second conductor. So seems even he
> >>>> sometimes didn't believe what the math was saying.
> >>>
> >>> Heaviside’s dates are 1850–1925.
> >>>
> >>> The Alexanderson alternator, the first CW transmitter, was invented in
> >>> 1903. It ran at 200 kHz, iirc, using high speed and many many poles. Even
> >>> at that, it would have needed a 1-km-wide waveguide, so in H.’s era it
> >>> really wasn’t possible.
> >>
> >> J C Bose was experimenting with mm-waves in 1895 or so.
> >
> >Reference?
> >
> Around 1888 Hertz demonstrated reflection, refraction with a prism,
> and standing waves using a spark-gap microwave source. He could have
> made a waveguide but I guess it didn't occur to him.
>
> Waveguides date to about 1893.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waveguide#History
>
> We could have built lasers around 1900 if anyone had thought of it.
Do tell us how.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply by none●December 23, 20232023-12-23
In article <cn49ni1rdqfcvchon710r9u65qt29hroi6@4ax.com>,
John Larkin <xx@yy.com> wrote:
>On Sat, 9 Dec 2023 07:13:48 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs
><bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Friday, December 8, 2023 at 11:05:59?AM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:
>>> https://cosmosmagazine.com/science/mathematics/ripple-effects-of-maths-crisis-spread-to-engineering/
>>>
>>> (The aussies call it 'maths')
>>
>>This may come as a surprise to you, but engineers were NEVER good at math.
>
>I have a couple that are. But I have more crazy ideas - that become
>products - than they do. Is that a correlation somehow?
>
>>Hence all these charts, graphs, nomo's, table lookups, handbooks, standards, arithmeticization of transcendental math ( transforms) and whatever else it
>took to get them *numbers* in least time, if at all. Engineers used to be exceptionally good at arithmetic. They used to be ridiculously pathetic programmers
>totally lacking in analytical and organizational skills, and probably still are AFAIK. Then don't even let them near singularities. Heaviside's so-called
>analysis is mere symbolic arithmetic. Author of article is a case point, a complete idiot.
>
>Einstein almost invented a few things, like the laser, but didn't.
>That's curious.
>
>Calculators erased the need to be good at arithmetic. Slide rules
>didn't add or subtract or work to 9 places.
>
The US deficit in cents run to 100,000,000,000,000.00
That is 17 digits.
Regular calculators are no good for the US deficit.
You can order an abacus from Ali express with 17 digits,
but most are 13 digits.
Groetjes Albert
--
Don't praise the day before the evening. One swallow doesn't make spring.
You must not say "hey" before you have crossed the bridge. Don't sell the
hide of the bear until you shot it. Better one bird in the hand than ten in
the air. First gain is a cat spinning. - the Wise from Antrim -
Reply by John Larkin●December 17, 20232023-12-17
On Sun, 17 Dec 2023 10:37:33 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
<jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
>On 12/17/23 07:11, Chris Jones wrote:
>> On 11/12/2023 6:45 am, Phil Hobbs wrote:
>>> bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
>>>> On 12/8/2023 8:20 PM, Lamont Cranston wrote:
>>>>> On Friday, December 8, 2023 at 6:21:00?PM UTC-6, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>>>>> On Fri, 08 Dec 2023 15:04:22 -0800, john larkin <j...@650pot.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, 08 Dec 2023 22:01:11 +0000, Cursitor Doom
>>>>>>> <c...@notformail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Fri, 08 Dec 2023 08:05:09 -0800, John Larkin
>>>>>>>> <j...@997PotHill.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://cosmosmagazine.com/science/mathematics/ripple-effects-of-maths-crisis-spread-to-engineering/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> (The aussies call it 'maths')
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Maxwell's equations. That's where a lot of people decide it's not
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> life for them!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Of course, very few ee's ever use Maxwell's equations. I never have.
>>>>>> [...]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, well, when I said Maxwell's equations I was kind of meaning the
>>>>>> main four that Oliver Heaviside was able to reduce them to. Any decent
>>>>>> RF engineer must surely be familiar with those if not the admittedly
>>>>>> very abstruse Maxwell originals?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Interestingly Oliver Heavyside had something to say about engineers
>>>>> and math.
>>>>> See page 7 section 8, 9...
>>>>> Although page 5 section 5 is fun with all the name dropping.
>>>>> Maxwell, Poynting, Hertz,
>>>>> Faraday and others.
>>>>> https://macsphere.mcmaster.ca/bitstream/11375/14746/1/fulltext.pdf
>>>>> Mikek
>>>>
>>>> Heavyside didn't believe EM propagation was possible inside waveguides,
>>>> he thought you absolutely needed a second conductor. So seems even he
>>>> sometimes didn't believe what the math was saying.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Heaviside�s dates are 1850�1925.
>>>
>>> The Alexanderson alternator, the first CW transmitter, was invented in
>>> 1903. It ran at 200 kHz, iirc, using high speed and many many poles.
>>> Even
>>> at that, it would have needed a 1-km-wide waveguide, so in H.�s era it
>>> really wasn�t possible.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> Phil Hobbs
>>>
>>
>> J C Bose was experimenting with mm-waves in 1895 or so.
>>
>
>That was pretty amazing work for the time. Remember, no vacuum
>tubes or transistors. I was wondering how he generated and detected
>his microwaves. The generator was a spherical resonator with spark
>gaps on diametrically opposed sides, driven by an induction coil.
>The contraption resonated at 60GHz or so.
>
>The detector was a box with two metal sides and springs in between,
>probably having some non-linear conductance because of oxidation of
>its parts. With that, he was able to demonstrate wave guides, horn
>antennas, polarization, refraction, diffraction and reflection of
>his waves.
>
>An amazing genius.
>
>Jeroen Belleman
Hertz used spark gaps as his receiver.
Reply by John Larkin●December 17, 20232023-12-17
On Sun, 17 Dec 2023 09:08:42 -0000 (UTC), Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
>Chris Jones <lugnut808@spam.yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On 11/12/2023 6:45 am, Phil Hobbs wrote:
>>> bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
>>>> On 12/8/2023 8:20 PM, Lamont Cranston wrote:
>>>>> On Friday, December 8, 2023 at 6:21:00?PM UTC-6, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>>>>> On Fri, 08 Dec 2023 15:04:22 -0800, john larkin <j...@650pot.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, 08 Dec 2023 22:01:11 +0000, Cursitor Doom <c...@notformail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Fri, 08 Dec 2023 08:05:09 -0800, John Larkin <j...@997PotHill.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://cosmosmagazine.com/science/mathematics/ripple-effects-of-maths-crisis-spread-to-engineering/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> (The aussies call it 'maths')
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Maxwell's equations. That's where a lot of people decide it's not the
>>>>>>>> life for them!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Of course, very few ee's ever use Maxwell's equations. I never have.
>>>>>> [...]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, well, when I said Maxwell's equations I was kind of meaning the
>>>>>> main four that Oliver Heaviside was able to reduce them to. Any decent
>>>>>> RF engineer must surely be familiar with those if not the admittedly
>>>>>> very abstruse Maxwell originals?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Interestingly Oliver Heavyside had something to say about engineers and math.
>>>>> See page 7 section 8, 9...
>>>>> Although page 5 section 5 is fun with all the name dropping. Maxwell, Poynting, Hertz,
>>>>> Faraday and others.
>>>>> https://macsphere.mcmaster.ca/bitstream/11375/14746/1/fulltext.pdf
>>>>> Mikek
>>>>
>>>> Heavyside didn't believe EM propagation was possible inside waveguides,
>>>> he thought you absolutely needed a second conductor. So seems even he
>>>> sometimes didn't believe what the math was saying.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Heaviside�s dates are 1850�1925.
>>>
>>> The Alexanderson alternator, the first CW transmitter, was invented in
>>> 1903. It ran at 200 kHz, iirc, using high speed and many many poles. Even
>>> at that, it would have needed a 1-km-wide waveguide, so in H.�s era it
>>> really wasn�t possible.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> Phil Hobbs
>>>
>>
>> J C Bose was experimenting with mm-waves in 1895 or so.
>>
>>
>
>Reference?
>
>Cheers
>
>Phil Hobbs
Around 1888 Hertz demonstrated reflection, refraction with a prism,
and standing waves using a spark-gap microwave source. He could have
made a waveguide but I guess it didn't occur to him.
Waveguides date to about 1893.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waveguide#History
We could have built lasers around 1900 if anyone had thought of it.
Reply by Chris Jones●December 17, 20232023-12-17
On 17/12/2023 8:08 pm, Phil Hobbs wrote:
> Chris Jones <lugnut808@spam.yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On 11/12/2023 6:45 am, Phil Hobbs wrote:
>>> bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
>>>> On 12/8/2023 8:20 PM, Lamont Cranston wrote:
>>>>> On Friday, December 8, 2023 at 6:21:00 PM UTC-6, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>>>>> On Fri, 08 Dec 2023 15:04:22 -0800, john larkin <j...@650pot.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, 08 Dec 2023 22:01:11 +0000, Cursitor Doom <c...@notformail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Fri, 08 Dec 2023 08:05:09 -0800, John Larkin <j...@997PotHill.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://cosmosmagazine.com/science/mathematics/ripple-effects-of-maths-crisis-spread-to-engineering/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> (The aussies call it 'maths')
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Maxwell's equations. That's where a lot of people decide it's not the
>>>>>>>> life for them!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Of course, very few ee's ever use Maxwell's equations. I never have.
>>>>>> [...]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, well, when I said Maxwell's equations I was kind of meaning the
>>>>>> main four that Oliver Heaviside was able to reduce them to. Any decent
>>>>>> RF engineer must surely be familiar with those if not the admittedly
>>>>>> very abstruse Maxwell originals?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Interestingly Oliver Heavyside had something to say about engineers and math.
>>>>> See page 7 section 8, 9...
>>>>> Although page 5 section 5 is fun with all the name dropping. Maxwell, Poynting, Hertz,
>>>>> Faraday and others.
>>>>> https://macsphere.mcmaster.ca/bitstream/11375/14746/1/fulltext.pdf
>>>>> Mikek
>>>>
>>>> Heavyside didn't believe EM propagation was possible inside waveguides,
>>>> he thought you absolutely needed a second conductor. So seems even he
>>>> sometimes didn't believe what the math was saying.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Heaviside’s dates are 1850–1925.
>>>
>>> The Alexanderson alternator, the first CW transmitter, was invented in
>>> 1903. It ran at 200 kHz, iirc, using high speed and many many poles. Even
>>> at that, it would have needed a 1-km-wide waveguide, so in H.’s era it
>>> really wasn’t possible.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> Phil Hobbs
>>>
>>
>> J C Bose was experimenting with mm-waves in 1895 or so.
>>
>>
>
> Reference?
>
> Cheers
>
> Phil Hobbs
>
Reply by Jeroen Belleman●December 17, 20232023-12-17
On 12/17/23 10:08, Phil Hobbs wrote:
> Chris Jones <lugnut808@spam.yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On 11/12/2023 6:45 am, Phil Hobbs wrote:
>>> bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
>>>> On 12/8/2023 8:20 PM, Lamont Cranston wrote:
>>>>> On Friday, December 8, 2023 at 6:21:00 PM UTC-6, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>>>>> On Fri, 08 Dec 2023 15:04:22 -0800, john larkin <j...@650pot.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, 08 Dec 2023 22:01:11 +0000, Cursitor Doom <c...@notformail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Fri, 08 Dec 2023 08:05:09 -0800, John Larkin <j...@997PotHill.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://cosmosmagazine.com/science/mathematics/ripple-effects-of-maths-crisis-spread-to-engineering/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> (The aussies call it 'maths')
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Maxwell's equations. That's where a lot of people decide it's not the
>>>>>>>> life for them!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Of course, very few ee's ever use Maxwell's equations. I never have.
>>>>>> [...]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, well, when I said Maxwell's equations I was kind of meaning the
>>>>>> main four that Oliver Heaviside was able to reduce them to. Any decent
>>>>>> RF engineer must surely be familiar with those if not the admittedly
>>>>>> very abstruse Maxwell originals?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Interestingly Oliver Heavyside had something to say about engineers and math.
>>>>> See page 7 section 8, 9...
>>>>> Although page 5 section 5 is fun with all the name dropping. Maxwell, Poynting, Hertz,
>>>>> Faraday and others.
>>>>> https://macsphere.mcmaster.ca/bitstream/11375/14746/1/fulltext.pdf
>>>>> Mikek
>>>>
>>>> Heavyside didn't believe EM propagation was possible inside waveguides,
>>>> he thought you absolutely needed a second conductor. So seems even he
>>>> sometimes didn't believe what the math was saying.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Heaviside’s dates are 1850–1925.
>>>
>>> The Alexanderson alternator, the first CW transmitter, was invented in
>>> 1903. It ran at 200 kHz, iirc, using high speed and many many poles. Even
>>> at that, it would have needed a 1-km-wide waveguide, so in H.’s era it
>>> really wasn’t possible.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> Phil Hobbs
>>>
>>
>> J C Bose was experimenting with mm-waves in 1895 or so.
>>
>>
>
> Reference?
>
> Cheers
>
> Phil Hobbs
J. C. Bose, "On the Determination of the Wavelength of Electric
Radiation by a Diffraction Grating," Proc. Roy. Soc., v. 60, 1897, pp.
167-78.
Jeroen Belleman
Reply by Chris Jones●December 17, 20232023-12-17
On 17/12/2023 8:08 pm, Phil Hobbs wrote:
> Chris Jones <lugnut808@spam.yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On 11/12/2023 6:45 am, Phil Hobbs wrote:
>>> bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
>>>> On 12/8/2023 8:20 PM, Lamont Cranston wrote:
>>>>> On Friday, December 8, 2023 at 6:21:00 PM UTC-6, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>>>>> On Fri, 08 Dec 2023 15:04:22 -0800, john larkin <j...@650pot.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, 08 Dec 2023 22:01:11 +0000, Cursitor Doom <c...@notformail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Fri, 08 Dec 2023 08:05:09 -0800, John Larkin <j...@997PotHill.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://cosmosmagazine.com/science/mathematics/ripple-effects-of-maths-crisis-spread-to-engineering/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> (The aussies call it 'maths')
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Maxwell's equations. That's where a lot of people decide it's not the
>>>>>>>> life for them!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Of course, very few ee's ever use Maxwell's equations. I never have.
>>>>>> [...]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, well, when I said Maxwell's equations I was kind of meaning the
>>>>>> main four that Oliver Heaviside was able to reduce them to. Any decent
>>>>>> RF engineer must surely be familiar with those if not the admittedly
>>>>>> very abstruse Maxwell originals?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Interestingly Oliver Heavyside had something to say about engineers and math.
>>>>> See page 7 section 8, 9...
>>>>> Although page 5 section 5 is fun with all the name dropping. Maxwell, Poynting, Hertz,
>>>>> Faraday and others.
>>>>> https://macsphere.mcmaster.ca/bitstream/11375/14746/1/fulltext.pdf
>>>>> Mikek
>>>>
>>>> Heavyside didn't believe EM propagation was possible inside waveguides,
>>>> he thought you absolutely needed a second conductor. So seems even he
>>>> sometimes didn't believe what the math was saying.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Heaviside’s dates are 1850–1925.
>>>
>>> The Alexanderson alternator, the first CW transmitter, was invented in
>>> 1903. It ran at 200 kHz, iirc, using high speed and many many poles. Even
>>> at that, it would have needed a 1-km-wide waveguide, so in H.’s era it
>>> really wasn’t possible.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> Phil Hobbs
>>>
>>
>> J C Bose was experimenting with mm-waves in 1895 or so.
>>
>>
>
> Reference?
>
> Cheers
>
> Phil Hobbs
>
Reply by Jeroen Belleman●December 17, 20232023-12-17
On 12/17/23 07:11, Chris Jones wrote:
> On 11/12/2023 6:45 am, Phil Hobbs wrote:
>> bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
>>> On 12/8/2023 8:20 PM, Lamont Cranston wrote:
>>>> On Friday, December 8, 2023 at 6:21:00 PM UTC-6, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 08 Dec 2023 15:04:22 -0800, john larkin <j...@650pot.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, 08 Dec 2023 22:01:11 +0000, Cursitor Doom
>>>>>> <c...@notformail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, 08 Dec 2023 08:05:09 -0800, John Larkin
>>>>>>> <j...@997PotHill.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://cosmosmagazine.com/science/mathematics/ripple-effects-of-maths-crisis-spread-to-engineering/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (The aussies call it 'maths')
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Maxwell's equations. That's where a lot of people decide it's not
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> life for them!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Of course, very few ee's ever use Maxwell's equations. I never have.
>>>>> [...]
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, well, when I said Maxwell's equations I was kind of meaning the
>>>>> main four that Oliver Heaviside was able to reduce them to. Any decent
>>>>> RF engineer must surely be familiar with those if not the admittedly
>>>>> very abstruse Maxwell originals?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Interestingly Oliver Heavyside had something to say about engineers
>>>> and math.
>>>> See page 7 section 8, 9...
>>>> Although page 5 section 5 is fun with all the name dropping.
>>>> Maxwell, Poynting, Hertz,
>>>> Faraday and others.
>>>> https://macsphere.mcmaster.ca/bitstream/11375/14746/1/fulltext.pdf
>>>> Mikek
>>>
>>> Heavyside didn't believe EM propagation was possible inside waveguides,
>>> he thought you absolutely needed a second conductor. So seems even he
>>> sometimes didn't believe what the math was saying.
>>>
>>
>> Heaviside’s dates are 1850–1925.
>>
>> The Alexanderson alternator, the first CW transmitter, was invented in
>> 1903. It ran at 200 kHz, iirc, using high speed and many many poles.
>> Even
>> at that, it would have needed a 1-km-wide waveguide, so in H.’s era it
>> really wasn’t possible.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Phil Hobbs
>>
>
> J C Bose was experimenting with mm-waves in 1895 or so.
>
That was pretty amazing work for the time. Remember, no vacuum
tubes or transistors. I was wondering how he generated and detected
his microwaves. The generator was a spherical resonator with spark
gaps on diametrically opposed sides, driven by an induction coil.
The contraption resonated at 60GHz or so.
The detector was a box with two metal sides and springs in between,
probably having some non-linear conductance because of oxidation of
its parts. With that, he was able to demonstrate wave guides, horn
antennas, polarization, refraction, diffraction and reflection of
his waves.
An amazing genius.
Jeroen Belleman
Reply by Phil Hobbs●December 17, 20232023-12-17
Chris Jones <lugnut808@spam.yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 11/12/2023 6:45 am, Phil Hobbs wrote:
>> bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
>>> On 12/8/2023 8:20 PM, Lamont Cranston wrote:
>>>> On Friday, December 8, 2023 at 6:21:00 PM UTC-6, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 08 Dec 2023 15:04:22 -0800, john larkin <j...@650pot.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, 08 Dec 2023 22:01:11 +0000, Cursitor Doom <c...@notformail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, 08 Dec 2023 08:05:09 -0800, John Larkin <j...@997PotHill.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://cosmosmagazine.com/science/mathematics/ripple-effects-of-maths-crisis-spread-to-engineering/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (The aussies call it 'maths')
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Maxwell's equations. That's where a lot of people decide it's not the
>>>>>>> life for them!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Of course, very few ee's ever use Maxwell's equations. I never have.
>>>>> [...]
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, well, when I said Maxwell's equations I was kind of meaning the
>>>>> main four that Oliver Heaviside was able to reduce them to. Any decent
>>>>> RF engineer must surely be familiar with those if not the admittedly
>>>>> very abstruse Maxwell originals?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Interestingly Oliver Heavyside had something to say about engineers and math.
>>>> See page 7 section 8, 9...
>>>> Although page 5 section 5 is fun with all the name dropping. Maxwell, Poynting, Hertz,
>>>> Faraday and others.
>>>> https://macsphere.mcmaster.ca/bitstream/11375/14746/1/fulltext.pdf
>>>> Mikek
>>>
>>> Heavyside didn't believe EM propagation was possible inside waveguides,
>>> he thought you absolutely needed a second conductor. So seems even he
>>> sometimes didn't believe what the math was saying.
>>>
>>
>> Heaviside’s dates are 1850–1925.
>>
>> The Alexanderson alternator, the first CW transmitter, was invented in
>> 1903. It ran at 200 kHz, iirc, using high speed and many many poles. Even
>> at that, it would have needed a 1-km-wide waveguide, so in H.’s era it
>> really wasn’t possible.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Phil Hobbs
>>
>
> J C Bose was experimenting with mm-waves in 1895 or so.
>
>
Reference?
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC /
Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Reply by Bill Sloman●December 17, 20232023-12-17
On 11/12/2023 11:08 am, John Smiht wrote:
> On Saturday, December 9, 2023 at 10:42:36 PM UTC-6, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
>> On Sunday, December 10, 2023 at 4:19:54 AM UTC+11, John Larkin wrote:
>>> On Sat, 9 Dec 2023 09:07:05 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs
>>> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Saturday, December 9, 2023 at 11:25:51?AM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 9 Dec 2023 07:13:48 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs
>>>>> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Friday, December 8, 2023 at 11:05:59?AM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:
>>>>>>> https://cosmosmagazine.com/science/mathematics/ripple-effects-of-maths-crisis-spread-to-engineering/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (The aussies call it 'maths')
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This may come as a surprise to you, but engineers were NEVER good at math.
>>>>> I have a couple that are. But I have more crazy ideas - that become
>>>>> products - than they do. Is that a correlation somehow?
>>>>>> Hence all these charts, graphs, nomo's, table lookups, handbooks, standards, arithmeticization of transcendental math ( transforms) and whatever else it took to get them *numbers* in least time, if at all. Engineers used to be exceptionally good at arithmetic. They used to be ridiculously pathetic programmers totally lacking in analytical and organizational skills, and probably still are AFAIK. Then don't even let them near singularities. Heaviside's so-called analysis is mere symbolic arithmetic. Author of article is a case point, a complete idiot.
>>>>> Einstein almost invented a few things, like the laser, but didn't.
>>>>> That's curious.
>>>>
>>>> Actually he did, he collaborated on the design of a refrigerator, and it was patented.
>>>>
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einstein_refrigerator
>>>>
>>> "It has been suggested that most of the actual inventing was done by
>>> Szilárd". That aligns with my observation that professor types seldom
>>> have original ideas.
>>
>> John Larkin has his name on one patent taken out by a group he was collaborating with. probably because they felt the need to flatter him.
>>
>> I've got three patents, and my father and two of my friends have got roughly 25 each. John Larkin doesn't know much about original ideas. And he doesn't know much about professors either - Einstein wasn't a "professor type", he was a card -carrying genius.
>>
>>> I'd think that staring at equations would suggest possibilities, but it rarely does. The positron is an interesting case.
>>
>> Paul Dirac stared at a lot equations - most of which he had formulated, in order to explain what seemed to be happening. The prediction of the positron was an incidental results of that whole process, not of just staring at equations.
>
> Can't resist again, eh?
Why should I resist pointing out that John Larkin doesn't have a track
record when it comes to generating original ideas? His idea that he
knows enough to write off Einstein as a "professor type" makes it fairly
clear that he doesn't know much about them either.
> May the fleas of a thousand camels invade your armpits.
They'd have to make a long trip to get to Sydney.
https://nt.gov.au/environment/animals/feral-animals/feral-camel
Camels are pretty much confined to the Northern Territory. There are
about a million of them. If you find a thousand camels somewhere a bit
closer Sydney, a few of their fleas might make it to the edge of the
city, but Australians are fond of insecticides.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney