On Mon, 27 Nov 2023 08:36:29 -0800 (PST), John Smiht <utube.jocjo@xoxy.net> wrote:>On Monday, November 27, 2023 at 9:56:43?AM UTC-6, John Larkin wrote: >> On Mon, 27 Nov 2023 16:03:10 +0200, Dimiter_Popoff <d...@tgi-sci.com> >> wrote: >> >On 11/27/2023 1:26, John Larkin wrote: >> >> On Sun, 26 Nov 2023 16:18:56 -0700, boB <b...@K7IQ.com> wrote: >> >> >> >>> On Mon, 20 Nov 2023 19:52:47 -0800, John Larkin <j...@997PotHill.com> >> >>> wrote: >> >>> >> >>>> >> >>>> There's an electronics assembly joint near us that's going out of >> >>>> business, so we poached three employees and a bunch of equipment. I've >> >>>> always wanted a high-res xray, and I got one and the guy to run it. >> >>>> >> >>>> https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/lfdot6a64pg05z2x1ejo1/h?rlkey=p8lmnoy9388d3v20qv5a8qgwf&dl=0 >> >>>> >> >>>> We also got a 3D AOI board inspection machine which makes equally cool >> >>>> images. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> CooL ! That just come in handy ! >> >>> >> >>> Would love one ! How big is the unit ? >> >>> >> >>> boB >> >> >> >> It's big. I posted some pix. >> >Thanks for the pics, looks really serious. >> > >> > > I can x-ray anything reasonable for >> > > people. No bombs or cows or anything. >> > > >> > >> >What about goats? >> >http://tgi-sci.com/tgi/fun/kozichki.htm >> > >> >:) >> What's inside a goat? Tin cans and barbed wire? >> >> Here in San Francisco, you wouldn't expect to see goats. But we have >> water reserviors on the tops of hills for gravity feed. And they get >> overgrown with grass and weeds. So once in a while the city hires >> herds of goats to eat the greenery. >> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkuNn8iXOwM > >So, it doesn't bother you to have goat crap in your water?The reservoirs have concrete lids, so are not exposed to evaporation or birds or goats. They are mostly there to provide water pressure for firefighting after earthquakes. Sometimes, at a street intersection, you see a manhole cover and a circle of bricks. That's a small reservoir. We only have a few open lakes left, like Mountain Lake and Laguna Honda. And there are only two live creeks left, Lobos Creek in the Presidio and Islais Creek in Glen Canyon, two blocks from us. Everything else got piped and paved over, sadly.
new x-ray machine
Started by ●November 20, 2023
Reply by ●November 27, 20232023-11-27
Reply by ●November 29, 20232023-11-29
On 25/11/2023 4:52 pm, Jan Panteltje wrote:> On a sunny day (Fri, 24 Nov 2023 23:04:50 +0200) it happened Dimiter_Popoff > <dp@tgi-sci.com> wrote in <ujr35j$2fd7a$1@dont-email.me>: > >> On 11/24/2023 19:22, Joe Gwinn wrote: >>> On Thu, 23 Nov 2023 15:50:43 -0800, John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> On Thu, 23 Nov 2023 23:32:35 +0200, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 11/23/2023 23:13, John Larkin wrote: >>>>>> On Thu, 23 Nov 2023 23:04:47 +0200, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 11/21/2023 5:52, John Larkin wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> There's an electronics assembly joint near us that's going out of >>>>>>>> business, so we poached three employees and a bunch of equipment. I've >>>>>>>> always wanted a high-res xray, and I got one and the guy to run it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/lfdot6a64pg05z2x1ejo1/h?rlkey=p8lmnoy9388d3v20qv5a8qgwf&dl=0 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We also got a 3D AOI board inspection machine which makes equally cool >>>>>>>> images. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Really cool. How long does it take it to scan things, say that PLCC 20 >>>>>>> part? Resolution looks impressive. >>>>>>> Can you post a photo of the entire thing? >>>>>> >>>>>> I didn't do it, but I think the images are immediate, real-time. I >>>>>> think they can make movies too. >>>>> >>>>> Now this is even more impressive. Are the images directly digitized? >>>>> I mean CAT scanner like? >>>> >>>> I don't know the technology. Maybe a fluorescent sceen and a camera? >>>> Or some exotic sensor technology? >>> >>> Yes. I remembered that it was a CsI screen and an area photo sensor, >>> but much has changed since I last thought about this, so I did some >>> digging. >>> >>> >>>> Dentists are using video imagers and not film any more. I wonder how >>>> that sensor works. >>> >>> From Dentron, a Dental X-Ray Sensor manufacturer: "The Dentron Direct >>> USB sensor offers rounded corners, smooth edges, and two sizes (size >>> #1 for children | size #2 for adults) to optimize patient comfort >>> while receiving a dental X-Ray. The thin, tough, and durable >>> polyamide housing is less than 1/4" and features a CMOS imaging sensor >>> chip, CSI Scintillator, electronic circuits, shielding foils, and >>> polyurethane cable and shock absorbers." >> >> Thanks for doing the research. So it looks like they have some >> scintillating foil screen and a "normal" photosensor, not bad at all. > > 4k is a lot of dollars > there is plenty on the web for creating your own xrays, for example: > https://hackaday.com/2015/12/31/portable-diy-radiography/ > looks like my PMT supply will work! > In the old tube days the HV parallel regulator tubes in color TVs also emitted xrays > an PD500 tube is all you need: > http://www.kronjaeger.com/hv-old/xray/tech/PD500/ > I still have some scintillator screen, plenty of cameras. > Maybe one day > I know about one guy at work who got xray burns working on a color TV with the protection screen around the HV tube removed. > After that firebrigade came and tested all color monitors in the studios for radiation. >If you wish to re-purpose a valve/tube that was not intended as an x-ray tube, instead of a PD500 etc. it is better to use a 6BC-1 because it produces a focussed electron beam that makes a small spot on the anode - though it cannot handle very high voltage and also the anode melts easily unless extremely low beam current is used (which is sensible anyway): See: https://danyk.cz/rtg2_en.html See also the text on: https://web.archive.org/web/20101124095650/http://fineartradiography.com/hobbies/x-ray/6vs1.html I believe this fellow was selling these tubes along with fluorescent screens and image intensifiers, until he received a visit from the authorities and the website was disappeared
Reply by ●November 29, 20232023-11-29
On Thu, 30 Nov 2023 00:07:52 +1100, Chris Jones <lugnut808@spam.yahoo.com> wrote:>On 25/11/2023 4:52 pm, Jan Panteltje wrote: >> On a sunny day (Fri, 24 Nov 2023 23:04:50 +0200) it happened Dimiter_Popoff >> <dp@tgi-sci.com> wrote in <ujr35j$2fd7a$1@dont-email.me>: >> >>> On 11/24/2023 19:22, Joe Gwinn wrote: >>>> On Thu, 23 Nov 2023 15:50:43 -0800, John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Thu, 23 Nov 2023 23:32:35 +0200, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On 11/23/2023 23:13, John Larkin wrote: >>>>>>> On Thu, 23 Nov 2023 23:04:47 +0200, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 11/21/2023 5:52, John Larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> There's an electronics assembly joint near us that's going out of >>>>>>>>> business, so we poached three employees and a bunch of equipment. I've >>>>>>>>> always wanted a high-res xray, and I got one and the guy to run it. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/lfdot6a64pg05z2x1ejo1/h?rlkey=p8lmnoy9388d3v20qv5a8qgwf&dl=0 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> We also got a 3D AOI board inspection machine which makes equally cool >>>>>>>>> images. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Really cool. How long does it take it to scan things, say that PLCC 20 >>>>>>>> part? Resolution looks impressive. >>>>>>>> Can you post a photo of the entire thing? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I didn't do it, but I think the images are immediate, real-time. I >>>>>>> think they can make movies too. >>>>>> >>>>>> Now this is even more impressive. Are the images directly digitized? >>>>>> I mean CAT scanner like? >>>>> >>>>> I don't know the technology. Maybe a fluorescent sceen and a camera? >>>>> Or some exotic sensor technology? >>>> >>>> Yes. I remembered that it was a CsI screen and an area photo sensor, >>>> but much has changed since I last thought about this, so I did some >>>> digging. >>>> >>>> >>>>> Dentists are using video imagers and not film any more. I wonder how >>>>> that sensor works. >>>> >>>> From Dentron, a Dental X-Ray Sensor manufacturer: "The Dentron Direct >>>> USB sensor offers rounded corners, smooth edges, and two sizes (size >>>> #1 for children | size #2 for adults) to optimize patient comfort >>>> while receiving a dental X-Ray. The thin, tough, and durable >>>> polyamide housing is less than 1/4" and features a CMOS imaging sensor >>>> chip, CSI Scintillator, electronic circuits, shielding foils, and >>>> polyurethane cable and shock absorbers." >>> >>> Thanks for doing the research. So it looks like they have some >>> scintillating foil screen and a "normal" photosensor, not bad at all. >> >> 4k is a lot of dollars >> there is plenty on the web for creating your own xrays, for example: >> https://hackaday.com/2015/12/31/portable-diy-radiography/ >> looks like my PMT supply will work! >> In the old tube days the HV parallel regulator tubes in color TVs also emitted xrays >> an PD500 tube is all you need: >> http://www.kronjaeger.com/hv-old/xray/tech/PD500/ >> I still have some scintillator screen, plenty of cameras. >> Maybe one day >> I know about one guy at work who got xray burns working on a color TV with the protection screen around the HV tube removed. >> After that firebrigade came and tested all color monitors in the studios for radiation. >> > >If you wish to re-purpose a valve/tube that was not intended as an x-ray >tube, instead of a PD500 etc. it is better to use a 6BC-1 because it >produces a focussed electron beam that makes a small spot on the anode - >though it cannot handle very high voltage and also the anode melts >easily unless extremely low beam current is used (which is sensible anyway): >See: >https://danyk.cz/rtg2_en.html > >See also the text on: >https://web.archive.org/web/20101124095650/http://fineartradiography.com/hobbies/x-ray/6vs1.html >I believe this fellow was selling these tubes along with fluorescent >screens and image intensifiers, until he received a visit from the >authorities and the website was disappearedYou can buy a dental Xray rig on bay for about $600.
Reply by ●November 29, 20232023-11-29
On a sunny day (Thu, 30 Nov 2023 00:07:52 +1100) it happened Chris Jones <lugnut808@spam.yahoo.com> wrote in <KIG9N.1189626$OPFb.500178@fx15.ams4>:>On 25/11/2023 4:52 pm, Jan Panteltje wrote: >> On a sunny day (Fri, 24 Nov 2023 23:04:50 +0200) it happened Dimiter_Popoff >> <dp@tgi-sci.com> wrote in <ujr35j$2fd7a$1@dont-email.me>: >> >>> On 11/24/2023 19:22, Joe Gwinn wrote: >>>> On Thu, 23 Nov 2023 15:50:43 -0800, John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Thu, 23 Nov 2023 23:32:35 +0200, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On 11/23/2023 23:13, John Larkin wrote: >>>>>>> On Thu, 23 Nov 2023 23:04:47 +0200, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 11/21/2023 5:52, John Larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> There's an electronics assembly joint near us that's going out of >>>>>>>>> business, so we poached three employees and a bunch of equipment. I've >>>>>>>>> always wanted a high-res xray, and I got one and the guy to run it. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/lfdot6a64pg05z2x1ejo1/h?rlkey=p8lmnoy9388d3v20qv5a8qgwf&dl=0 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> We also got a 3D AOI board inspection machine which makes equally cool >>>>>>>>> images. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Really cool. How long does it take it to scan things, say that PLCC 20 >>>>>>>> part? Resolution looks impressive. >>>>>>>> Can you post a photo of the entire thing? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I didn't do it, but I think the images are immediate, real-time. I >>>>>>> think they can make movies too. >>>>>> >>>>>> Now this is even more impressive. Are the images directly digitized? >>>>>> I mean CAT scanner like? >>>>> >>>>> I don't know the technology. Maybe a fluorescent sceen and a camera? >>>>> Or some exotic sensor technology? >>>> >>>> Yes. I remembered that it was a CsI screen and an area photo sensor, >>>> but much has changed since I last thought about this, so I did some >>>> digging. >>>> >>>> >>>>> Dentists are using video imagers and not film any more. I wonder how >>>>> that sensor works. >>>> >>>> From Dentron, a Dental X-Ray Sensor manufacturer: "The Dentron Direct >>>> USB sensor offers rounded corners, smooth edges, and two sizes (size >>>> #1 for children | size #2 for adults) to optimize patient comfort >>>> while receiving a dental X-Ray. The thin, tough, and durable >>>> polyamide housing is less than 1/4" and features a CMOS imaging sensor >>>> chip, CSI Scintillator, electronic circuits, shielding foils, and >>>> polyurethane cable and shock absorbers." >>> >>> Thanks for doing the research. So it looks like they have some >>> scintillating foil screen and a "normal" photosensor, not bad at all. >> >> 4k is a lot of dollars >> there is plenty on the web for creating your own xrays, for example: >> https://hackaday.com/2015/12/31/portable-diy-radiography/ >> looks like my PMT supply will work! >> In the old tube days the HV parallel regulator tubes in color TVs also emitted xrays >> an PD500 tube is all you need: >> http://www.kronjaeger.com/hv-old/xray/tech/PD500/ >> I still have some scintillator screen, plenty of cameras. >> Maybe one day >> I know about one guy at work who got xray burns working on a color TV with the protection screen around the HV tube removed. >> After that firebrigade came and tested all color monitors in the studios for radiation. >> > >If you wish to re-purpose a valve/tube that was not intended as an x-ray >tube, instead of a PD500 etc. it is better to use a 6BC-1 because it >produces a focussed electron beam that makes a small spot on the anode - >though it cannot handle very high voltage and also the anode melts >easily unless extremely low beam current is used (which is sensible anyway): >See: >https://danyk.cz/rtg2_en.htmlThank you, very nice site, many pictures! I see that tube is available on ebay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/263765159128 Datasheets: http://lampes-et-tubes.info/vs/vs013.php?l=e>See also the text on: >https://web.archive.org/web/20101124095650/http://fineartradiography.com/hobbies/x-ray/6vs1.html >I believe this fellow was selling these tubes along with fluorescent >screens and image intensifiers, until he received a visit from the >authorities and the website was disappearedWell, everything is forbidden these days... Now I cannot even fly my drone as I am too close to a mil airport, and now they want you to have a license too for big drones. There is a danger that prohibiting kids from experimenting will create a braindead society. The radioactive stuff I have ? https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/pic/sc_pic/PMT_with_radium_in_bag_img_2482.jpg Very old picture (20 years or so ago), HV generator...: https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/pic/sc_pic/ and some :-) Experimenting is fun, and one learns a lot that way!
Reply by ●November 29, 20232023-11-29
On Wed, 29 Nov 2023 17:41:24 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:>On a sunny day (Thu, 30 Nov 2023 00:07:52 +1100) it happened Chris Jones ><lugnut808@spam.yahoo.com> wrote in <KIG9N.1189626$OPFb.500178@fx15.ams4>: > >>On 25/11/2023 4:52 pm, Jan Panteltje wrote: >>> On a sunny day (Fri, 24 Nov 2023 23:04:50 +0200) it happened Dimiter_Popoff >>> <dp@tgi-sci.com> wrote in <ujr35j$2fd7a$1@dont-email.me>: >>> >>>> On 11/24/2023 19:22, Joe Gwinn wrote: >>>>> On Thu, 23 Nov 2023 15:50:43 -0800, John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, 23 Nov 2023 23:32:35 +0200, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 11/23/2023 23:13, John Larkin wrote: >>>>>>>> On Thu, 23 Nov 2023 23:04:47 +0200, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 11/21/2023 5:52, John Larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> There's an electronics assembly joint near us that's going out of >>>>>>>>>> business, so we poached three employees and a bunch of equipment. I've >>>>>>>>>> always wanted a high-res xray, and I got one and the guy to run it. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/lfdot6a64pg05z2x1ejo1/h?rlkey=p8lmnoy9388d3v20qv5a8qgwf&dl=0 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> We also got a 3D AOI board inspection machine which makes equally cool >>>>>>>>>> images. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Really cool. How long does it take it to scan things, say that PLCC 20 >>>>>>>>> part? Resolution looks impressive. >>>>>>>>> Can you post a photo of the entire thing? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I didn't do it, but I think the images are immediate, real-time. I >>>>>>>> think they can make movies too. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Now this is even more impressive. Are the images directly digitized? >>>>>>> I mean CAT scanner like? >>>>>> >>>>>> I don't know the technology. Maybe a fluorescent sceen and a camera? >>>>>> Or some exotic sensor technology? >>>>> >>>>> Yes. I remembered that it was a CsI screen and an area photo sensor, >>>>> but much has changed since I last thought about this, so I did some >>>>> digging. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Dentists are using video imagers and not film any more. I wonder how >>>>>> that sensor works. >>>>> >>>>> From Dentron, a Dental X-Ray Sensor manufacturer: "The Dentron Direct >>>>> USB sensor offers rounded corners, smooth edges, and two sizes (size >>>>> #1 for children | size #2 for adults) to optimize patient comfort >>>>> while receiving a dental X-Ray. The thin, tough, and durable >>>>> polyamide housing is less than 1/4" and features a CMOS imaging sensor >>>>> chip, CSI Scintillator, electronic circuits, shielding foils, and >>>>> polyurethane cable and shock absorbers." >>>> >>>> Thanks for doing the research. So it looks like they have some >>>> scintillating foil screen and a "normal" photosensor, not bad at all. >>> >>> 4k is a lot of dollars >>> there is plenty on the web for creating your own xrays, for example: >>> https://hackaday.com/2015/12/31/portable-diy-radiography/ >>> looks like my PMT supply will work! >>> In the old tube days the HV parallel regulator tubes in color TVs also emitted xrays >>> an PD500 tube is all you need: >>> http://www.kronjaeger.com/hv-old/xray/tech/PD500/ >>> I still have some scintillator screen, plenty of cameras. >>> Maybe one day >>> I know about one guy at work who got xray burns working on a color TV with the protection screen around the HV tube removed. >>> After that firebrigade came and tested all color monitors in the studios for radiation. >>> >> >>If you wish to re-purpose a valve/tube that was not intended as an x-ray >>tube, instead of a PD500 etc. it is better to use a 6BC-1 because it >>produces a focussed electron beam that makes a small spot on the anode - >>though it cannot handle very high voltage and also the anode melts >>easily unless extremely low beam current is used (which is sensible anyway): >>See: >>https://danyk.cz/rtg2_en.html > >Thank you, very nice site, many pictures! >I see that tube is available on ebay: > https://www.ebay.com/itm/263765159128 >Datasheets: > http://lampes-et-tubes.info/vs/vs013.php?l=e > >>See also the text on: >>https://web.archive.org/web/20101124095650/http://fineartradiography.com/hobbies/x-ray/6vs1.html >>I believe this fellow was selling these tubes along with fluorescent >>screens and image intensifiers, until he received a visit from the >>authorities and the website was disappeared > >Well, everything is forbidden these days... >Now I cannot even fly my drone as I am too close to a mil airport, and now they want you to have a license too for big drones. > >There is a danger that prohibiting kids from experimenting will create a braindead society.I was just talking to a guy about that this morning. Kids are too protected and afraid of electricity and soldering irons and stuff. They huddle way up in the abstraction stack where it's safe.>The radioactive stuff I have ? > https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/pic/sc_pic/PMT_with_radium_in_bag_img_2482.jpg >Very old picture (20 years or so ago), HV generator...: > https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/pic/sc_pic/ >and some :-) > >Experimenting is fun, and one learns a lot that way!We were free-range brats and did all sorts of risky stuff. Gunpowder, neon sign transformers, old tube TV sets, dangerous stuff we could buy at any chemical supply house. Potassium nitrate. Iodine crystals. Nitrobenzene. In high school, we had radioactive sample things sort of like poker chips. I used to carry them in my pants pocket.
Reply by ●November 29, 20232023-11-29
On 11/29/23 12:22, john larkin wrote:> On Wed, 29 Nov 2023 17:41:24 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> > wrote: ><big snip>>>> See also the text on: >>> https://web.archive.org/web/20101124095650/http://fineartradiography.com/hobbies/x-ray/6vs1.html >>> I believe this fellow was selling these tubes along with fluorescent >>> screens and image intensifiers, until he received a visit from the >>> authorities and the website was disappeared >> >> Well, everything is forbidden these days... >> Now I cannot even fly my drone as I am too close to a mil airport, and now they want you to have a license too for big drones. >> >> There is a danger that prohibiting kids from experimenting will create a braindead society. > > I was just talking to a guy about that this morning. Kids are too > protected and afraid of electricity and soldering irons and stuff. > They huddle way up in the abstraction stack where it's safe. > >However, in the Socialist Republic of California they seem to be taught it is safe to walk out in street traffic without looking, because "pedestrians always have the right of way". Good grief.>> The radioactive stuff I have >>https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/pic/sc_pic/PMT_with_radium_in_bag_img_2482.jpg>> Very old picture (20 years or so ago), HV generator...: >> https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/pic/sc_pic/ >> and some :-) >> >> Experimenting is fun, and one learns a lot that way! > > We were free-range brats and did all sorts of risky stuff. Gunpowder, > neon sign transformers, old tube TV sets, dangerous stuff we could buy > at any chemical supply house. Potassium nitrate. Iodine crystals. > Nitrobenzene. > > In high school, we had radioactive sample things sort of like poker > chips. I used to carry them in my pants pocket. >
Reply by ●November 29, 20232023-11-29
On Wed, 29 Nov 2023 16:27:02 -0800, wmartin <wwm@wwmartin.net> wrote:>On 11/29/23 12:22, john larkin wrote: >> On Wed, 29 Nov 2023 17:41:24 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >> wrote: >> ><big snip> >>>> See also the text on: >>>> https://web.archive.org/web/20101124095650/http://fineartradiography.com/hobbies/x-ray/6vs1.html >>>> I believe this fellow was selling these tubes along with fluorescent >>>> screens and image intensifiers, until he received a visit from the >>>> authorities and the website was disappeared >>> >>> Well, everything is forbidden these days... >>> Now I cannot even fly my drone as I am too close to a mil airport, and now they want you to have a license too for big drones. >>> >>> There is a danger that prohibiting kids from experimenting will create a braindead society. >> >> I was just talking to a guy about that this morning. Kids are too >> protected and afraid of electricity and soldering irons and stuff. >> They huddle way up in the abstraction stack where it's safe. >> >> > > However, in the Socialist Republic of California they seem to be >taught it is safe to walk out in street traffic without looking, because >"pedestrians always have the right of way". Good grief.Only in crosswalks.
Reply by ●November 30, 20232023-11-30
On Thursday, November 30, 2023 at 2:54:43 PM UTC+11, John Larkin wrote:> On Wed, 29 Nov 2023 16:27:02 -0800, wmartin <w...@wwmartin.net> wrote: > > >On 11/29/23 12:22, john larkin wrote: > >> On Wed, 29 Nov 2023 17:41:24 GMT, Jan Panteltje <al...@comet.invalid> > >> wrote: > >> > ><big snip> > >>>> See also the text on: > >>>> https://web.archive.org/web/20101124095650/http://fineartradiography.com/hobbies/x-ray/6vs1.html > >>>> I believe this fellow was selling these tubes along with fluorescent > >>>> screens and image intensifiers, until he received a visit from the > >>>> authorities and the website was disappeared > >>> > >>> Well, everything is forbidden these days... > >>> Now I cannot even fly my drone as I am too close to a mil airport, and now they want you to have a license too for big drones. > >>> > >>> There is a danger that prohibiting kids from experimenting will create a braindead society. > >> > >> I was just talking to a guy about that this morning. Kids are too > >> protected and afraid of electricity and soldering irons and stuff. > >> They huddle way up in the abstraction stack where it's safe.John Larkin claims not to feel fear - which may just means that he lacks the imagination to realise that things can go wrong. He doesn't seem to be able to tell the difference between rational caution and irrational panic and seems to see lot more of the latter than the rest of us.> > However, in the Socialist Republic of California they seem to be taught it is safe to walk out in street traffic without looking, because "pedestrians always have the right of way". Good grief. > > Only in crosswalks.Or what we call pedestrian crossings in Australia. Not giving a pedestrian right-of-way on one of them can lead to a substantial fine, but kids are taught not rely on drivers seeing them and giving them right-of-way. Even the most attentive driver can get distracted. -- Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply by ●November 30, 20232023-11-30
In article <KIG9N.1189626$OPFb.500178@fx15.ams4>, Chris Jones <lugnut808@spam.yahoo.com> wrote:>On 25/11/2023 4:52 pm, Jan Panteltje wrote: >> On a sunny day (Fri, 24 Nov 2023 23:04:50 +0200) it happened Dimiter_Popoff >> <dp@tgi-sci.com> wrote in <ujr35j$2fd7a$1@dont-email.me>: >> >>> On 11/24/2023 19:22, Joe Gwinn wrote: >>>> On Thu, 23 Nov 2023 15:50:43 -0800, John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Thu, 23 Nov 2023 23:32:35 +0200, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On 11/23/2023 23:13, John Larkin wrote: >>>>>>> On Thu, 23 Nov 2023 23:04:47 +0200, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 11/21/2023 5:52, John Larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> There's an electronics assembly joint near us that's going out of >>>>>>>>> business, so we poached three employees and a bunch of equipment. I've >>>>>>>>> always wanted a high-res xray, and I got one and the guy to run it. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/lfdot6a64pg05z2x1ejo1/h?rlkey=p8lmnoy9388d3v20qv5a8qgwf&dl=0 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> We also got a 3D AOI board inspection machine which makes equally cool >>>>>>>>> images. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Really cool. How long does it take it to scan things, say that PLCC 20 >>>>>>>> part? Resolution looks impressive. >>>>>>>> Can you post a photo of the entire thing? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I didn't do it, but I think the images are immediate, real-time. I >>>>>>> think they can make movies too. >>>>>> >>>>>> Now this is even more impressive. Are the images directly digitized? >>>>>> I mean CAT scanner like? >>>>> >>>>> I don't know the technology. Maybe a fluorescent sceen and a camera? >>>>> Or some exotic sensor technology? >>>> >>>> Yes. I remembered that it was a CsI screen and an area photo sensor, >>>> but much has changed since I last thought about this, so I did some >>>> digging. >>>> >>>> >>>>> Dentists are using video imagers and not film any more. I wonder how >>>>> that sensor works. >>>> >>>> From Dentron, a Dental X-Ray Sensor manufacturer: "The Dentron Direct >>>> USB sensor offers rounded corners, smooth edges, and two sizes (size >>>> #1 for children | size #2 for adults) to optimize patient comfort >>>> while receiving a dental X-Ray. The thin, tough, and durable >>>> polyamide housing is less than 1/4" and features a CMOS imaging sensor >>>> chip, CSI Scintillator, electronic circuits, shielding foils, and >>>> polyurethane cable and shock absorbers." >>> >>> Thanks for doing the research. So it looks like they have some >>> scintillating foil screen and a "normal" photosensor, not bad at all. >> >> 4k is a lot of dollars >> there is plenty on the web for creating your own xrays, for example: >> https://hackaday.com/2015/12/31/portable-diy-radiography/ >> looks like my PMT supply will work! >> In the old tube days the HV parallel regulator tubes in color TVs also emitted xrays >> an PD500 tube is all you need: >> http://www.kronjaeger.com/hv-old/xray/tech/PD500/ >> I still have some scintillator screen, plenty of cameras. >> Maybe one day >> I know about one guy at work who got xray burns working on a color TV with the protection screen around the HV tube removed. >> After that firebrigade came and tested all color monitors in the studios for radiation. >> > >If you wish to re-purpose a valve/tube that was not intended as an x-ray >tube, instead of a PD500 etc. it is better to use a 6BC-1 because it >produces a focussed electron beam that makes a small spot on the anode - >though it cannot handle very high voltage and also the anode melts >easily unless extremely low beam current is used (which is sensible anyway): >See: >https://danyk.cz/rtg2_en.html > >See also the text on: >https://web.archive.org/web/20101124095650/http://fineartradiography.com/hobbies/x-ray/6vs1.html >I believe this fellow was selling these tubes along with fluorescent >screens and image intensifiers, until he received a visit from the >authorities and the website was disappearedReal X-ray generating tubes use a rotation Wolfram target. I came upon this in the 80's with Philips Tomoscan machines. They could regulate the voltage to generate X-rays of different color. We were in the process of convincing the bean counters that this potentially could be a great diagnostic tool, then all contractors were sacked. Groetjes Albert -- Don't praise the day before the evening. One swallow doesn't make spring. You must not say "hey" before you have crossed the bridge. Don't sell the hide of the bear until you shot it. Better one bird in the hand than ten in the air. First gain is a cat spinning. - the Wise from Antrim -
Reply by ●November 30, 20232023-11-30
On Thursday, November 30, 2023 at 9:56:01 PM UTC+11, none albert wrote:> In article <KIG9N.1189626$OPFb....@fx15.ams4>, > Chris Jones <lugn...@spam.yahoo.com> wrote: > >On 25/11/2023 4:52 pm, Jan Panteltje wrote: > >> On a sunny day (Fri, 24 Nov 2023 23:04:50 +0200) it happened Dimiter_Popoff <d...@tgi-sci.com> wrote in <ujr35j$2fd7a$1...@dont-email.me>: > >>> On 11/24/2023 19:22, Joe Gwinn wrote: > >>>> On Thu, 23 Nov 2023 15:50:43 -0800, John Larkin <j...@997PotHill.com> wrote: > >>>>> On Thu, 23 Nov 2023 23:32:35 +0200, Dimiter_Popoff <d...@tgi-sci.com> wrote: > >>>>>> On 11/23/2023 23:13, John Larkin wrote: > >>>>>>> On Thu, 23 Nov 2023 23:04:47 +0200, Dimiter_Popoff <d...@tgi-sci.com> wrote: > >>>>>>>> On 11/21/2023 5:52, John Larkin wrote: > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> There's an electronics assembly joint near us that's going out of > >>>>>>>>> business, so we poached three employees and a bunch of equipment. I've > >>>>>>>>> always wanted a high-res xray, and I got one and the guy to run it. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/lfdot6a64pg05z2x1ejo1/h?rlkey=p8lmnoy9388d3v20qv5a8qgwf&dl=0 > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> We also got a 3D AOI board inspection machine which makes equally cool > >>>>>>>>> images. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Really cool. How long does it take it to scan things, say that PLCC 20 part? Resolution looks impressive. > >>>>>>>> Can you post a photo of the entire thing? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I didn't do it, but I think the images are immediate, real-time. I think they can make movies too. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Now this is even more impressive. Are the images directly digitized? I mean CAT scanner like? > >>>>> > >>>>> I don't know the technology. Maybe a fluorescent sceen and a camera? > >>>>> Or some exotic sensor technology? > >>>> > >>>> Yes. I remembered that it was a CsI screen and an area photo sensor, but much has changed since I last thought about this, so I did some digging. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> Dentists are using video imagers and not film any more. I wonder how that sensor works. > >>>> > >>>> From Dentron, a Dental X-Ray Sensor manufacturer: "The Dentron Direct USB sensor offers rounded corners, smooth edges, and two sizes (size #1 for children | size #2 for adults) to optimize patient comfort while receiving a dental X-Ray. The thin, tough, and durable polyamide housing is less than 1/4" and features a CMOS imaging sensor chip, CSI Scintillator, electronic circuits, shielding foils, and polyurethane cable and shock absorbers." > >>> > >>> Thanks for doing the research. So it looks like they have some scintillating foil screen and a "normal" photosensor, not bad at all. > >> > >> 4k is a lot of dollars there is plenty on the web for creating your own xrays, for example: > >> https://hackaday.com/2015/12/31/portable-diy-radiography/ > >> looks like my PMT supply will work! > >> In the old tube days the HV parallel regulator tubes in color TVs also emitted xrays > >> an PD500 tube is all you need: > >> http://www.kronjaeger.com/hv-old/xray/tech/PD500/ > >> I still have some scintillator screen, plenty of cameras. > >> Maybe one day > >> I know about one guy at work who got xray burns working on a color TV with the protection screen around the HV tube removed. > >> After that firebrigade came and tested all color monitors in the studios for radiation. > >> > > > >If you wish to re-purpose a valve/tube that was not intended as an x-ray tube, instead of a PD500 etc. it is better to use a 6BC-1 because it produces a focussed electron beam that makes a small spot on the anode - though it cannot handle very high voltage and also the anode melts easily unless extremely low beam current is used (which is sensible anyway): > >See: > >https://danyk.cz/rtg2_en.html > > > >See also the text on: > >https://web.archive.org/web/20101124095650/http://fineartradiography.com/hobbies/x-ray/6vs1.html > >I believe this fellow was selling these tubes along with fluorescent screens and image intensifiers, until he received a visit from the authorities and the website was disappeared. > > Real X-ray generating tubes use a rotation Wolfram target.Some do. Wolfram is Dutch/German. In english we say tungsten. If you want serious X-rays, use a synchrotron and a magnetic beam wiggler or unduator. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Undulator https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiggler_(synchrotron)> I came upon this in the 80's with Philips Tomoscan machines. They could regulate the voltage to generate X-rays of different color. We were in the process of convincing the bean counters that this potentially could be a great diagnostic tool, then all contractors were sacked.Perhaps because they realised that you didn't know as much as you needed to. -- Bill Sloman, Sydney -
