On Fri, 28 Oct 2022 04:56:20 GMT, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:>On a sunny day (Thu, 27 Oct 2022 09:33:12 -0700) it happened John Larkin ><jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in ><99cllhp645bv1v1qsk0hb2nccifpbecgvn@4ax.com>: > >>I am struggling for every square mm of board area. >> >>>OTOH BAD things must happen for those parts not to be around anymore >> >>Parts seem to be available more lately, especially direct from TI. >> >> >> >>> >>>That was to keep my drone airborne via a thin coax carrying high voltage >>>transformed back to 7V at the drone: >>> http://panteltje.com/pub/drone_power_small_core_test_IMG_6114.JPG >>> http://panteltje.com/pub/h501s_drone_remote_power_flight_test_1_IMG_6274.JPG >>> http://panteltje.com/pub/h501s_drone_remote_power_test_ground_control_1_IMG_6276.JPG >> >>I tested a 30 ga twisted pair of magnet wire. It failed at 1400 volts. >>Wire-wrap wire must be 10 KV-ish. You'd need a clever HV downconverter >>to use really light wire. >> >>How about a single wire to power a drone? > >How would that work?High frequency AC, working against the capacitance of the drone to the world. Some tuned circuit on each end.>Maybe optical fiber for a high power laser? Never tried that, do have some optical fiber here..Power over fiber is done, but it's expensive.>These coaxes I use have teflon based insulation and are really good for some hundreds of volts, >very light at that, >The idea was to make as little RF as possible (am using about 100 kHz), put a small antenna on the drone >and send the amplified received RF down the same coax (many MHz), or even use the whole coax >as shortwave antenna, balloon would work too of course, >just playing and investigating :-) > > >Tried Micro-coax? Really tiny stuff.
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Started by ●October 24, 2022
Reply by ●October 28, 20222022-10-28
Reply by ●October 28, 20222022-10-28
On a sunny day (Fri, 28 Oct 2022 04:38:54 -0700) it happened John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in <gifnlh12i7v6oscm5jqguafukd9abl6i8s@4ax.com>:>On Fri, 28 Oct 2022 04:56:20 GMT, Jan Panteltje ><pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote: > >>On a sunny day (Thu, 27 Oct 2022 09:33:12 -0700) it happened John Larkin >><jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in >><99cllhp645bv1v1qsk0hb2nccifpbecgvn@4ax.com>: >> >>>I am struggling for every square mm of board area. >>> >>>>OTOH BAD things must happen for those parts not to be around anymore >>> >>>Parts seem to be available more lately, especially direct from TI. >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>>That was to keep my drone airborne via a thin coax carrying high voltage >>>>transformed back to 7V at the drone: >>>> http://panteltje.com/pub/drone_power_small_core_test_IMG_6114.JPG >>>> http://panteltje.com/pub/h501s_drone_remote_power_flight_test_1_IMG_6274.JPG >>>> http://panteltje.com/pub/h501s_drone_remote_power_test_ground_control_1_IMG_6276.JPG >>> >>>I tested a 30 ga twisted pair of magnet wire. It failed at 1400 volts. >>>Wire-wrap wire must be 10 KV-ish. You'd need a clever HV downconverter >>>to use really light wire. >>> >>>How about a single wire to power a drone? >> >>How would that work? > >High frequency AC, working against the capacitance of the drone to the >world. Some tuned circuit on each end. > >>Maybe optical fiber for a high power laser? Never tried that, do have some optical fiber here.. > >Power over fiber is done, but it's expensive. > >>These coaxes I use have teflon based insulation and are really good for some hundreds of volts, >>very light at that, >>The idea was to make as little RF as possible (am using about 100 kHz), put a small antenna on the drone >>and send the amplified received RF down the same coax (many MHz), or even use the whole coax >>as shortwave antenna, balloon would work too of course, >>just playing and investigating :-) >> >> >> > >Tried Micro-coax? Really tiny stuff.Did not know about that, did some web searching now but on the Mouser link I see max 30V rms https://eu.mouser.com/new/alpha-wire/alphawire-micro-coaxial-cables/ was just a test, cannot even fly a drone where I live now area is close to mil airport, helies and F35 and F16 all the time Now soon with nukes, one coming right now ;-) (sound). (US wants to ugrade the nukes it has stationed in Europe including here I suppose) Such a small drone wants about 70 W for flying: http://panteltje.com/pub/hubsan_h501s_current_test_full_throttle_IMG_6290.JPG more than 10 A DC at 7 V or so. So using high voltage AC to get the current in the coax down, and transforming and rectifying back at the drone side: http://panteltje.com/pub/h501s_drone_remote_power_drone_side_IMG_6278.JPG The propeller air stream cools the rectifier diodes and the ringcore. It all works :-) Those are special diodes and special high quality elcos,
Reply by ●October 28, 20222022-10-28
On Fri, 28 Oct 2022 12:09:36 GMT, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:>On a sunny day (Fri, 28 Oct 2022 04:38:54 -0700) it happened John Larkin ><jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in ><gifnlh12i7v6oscm5jqguafukd9abl6i8s@4ax.com>: > >>On Fri, 28 Oct 2022 04:56:20 GMT, Jan Panteltje >><pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >>>On a sunny day (Thu, 27 Oct 2022 09:33:12 -0700) it happened John Larkin >>><jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in >>><99cllhp645bv1v1qsk0hb2nccifpbecgvn@4ax.com>: >>> >>>>I am struggling for every square mm of board area. >>>> >>>>>OTOH BAD things must happen for those parts not to be around anymore >>>> >>>>Parts seem to be available more lately, especially direct from TI. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>>That was to keep my drone airborne via a thin coax carrying high voltage >>>>>transformed back to 7V at the drone: >>>>> http://panteltje.com/pub/drone_power_small_core_test_IMG_6114.JPG >>>>> http://panteltje.com/pub/h501s_drone_remote_power_flight_test_1_IMG_6274.JPG >>>>> http://panteltje.com/pub/h501s_drone_remote_power_test_ground_control_1_IMG_6276.JPG >>>> >>>>I tested a 30 ga twisted pair of magnet wire. It failed at 1400 volts. >>>>Wire-wrap wire must be 10 KV-ish. You'd need a clever HV downconverter >>>>to use really light wire. >>>> >>>>How about a single wire to power a drone? >>> >>>How would that work? >> >>High frequency AC, working against the capacitance of the drone to the >>world. Some tuned circuit on each end. >> >>>Maybe optical fiber for a high power laser? Never tried that, do have some optical fiber here.. >> >>Power over fiber is done, but it's expensive. >> >>>These coaxes I use have teflon based insulation and are really good for some hundreds of volts, >>>very light at that, >>>The idea was to make as little RF as possible (am using about 100 kHz), put a small antenna on the drone >>>and send the amplified received RF down the same coax (many MHz), or even use the whole coax >>>as shortwave antenna, balloon would work too of course, >>>just playing and investigating :-) >>> >>> >>> >> >>Tried Micro-coax? Really tiny stuff. > >Did not know about that, did some web searching now >but on the Mouser link I see max 30V rms > https://eu.mouser.com/new/alpha-wire/alphawire-micro-coaxial-cables/ >That's silly. Nothing breaks down at 30 volts. I expect it's good for a few KV at least. When I was a kid I ran RG59 at 12KV. That's another story.>was just a test, cannot even fly a drone where I live now >area is close to mil airport, helies and F35 and F16 all the time >Now soon with nukes, one coming right now ;-) (sound). > (US wants to ugrade the nukes it has stationed in Europe including here I suppose) > >Such a small drone wants about 70 W for flying: > http://panteltje.com/pub/hubsan_h501s_current_test_full_throttle_IMG_6290.JPG > more than 10 A DC at 7 V or so. > >So using high voltage AC to get the current in the coax down, and transforming and rectifying >back at the drone side: > http://panteltje.com/pub/h501s_drone_remote_power_drone_side_IMG_6278.JPG > The propeller air stream cools the rectifier diodes and the ringcore. >It all works :-) > Those are special diodes and special high quality elcos,Send DC up to avoid rectifying and filtering. There is probably some cute little switcher chip to go from, say, 150 DC down to 7.
Reply by ●October 28, 20222022-10-28
On a sunny day (Fri, 28 Oct 2022 08:32:43 -0700) it happened John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in <m6tnlhdnfeofpbujravmshh037au26edhi@4ax.com>:>On Fri, 28 Oct 2022 12:09:36 GMT, Jan Panteltje ><pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote: > >>On a sunny day (Fri, 28 Oct 2022 04:38:54 -0700) it happened John Larkin >><jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in >><gifnlh12i7v6oscm5jqguafukd9abl6i8s@4ax.com>: >> >>>On Fri, 28 Oct 2022 04:56:20 GMT, Jan Panteltje >>><pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote: >>> >>>>On a sunny day (Thu, 27 Oct 2022 09:33:12 -0700) it happened John Larkin >>>><jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in >>>><99cllhp645bv1v1qsk0hb2nccifpbecgvn@4ax.com>: >>>> >>>>>I am struggling for every square mm of board area. >>>>> >>>>>>OTOH BAD things must happen for those parts not to be around anymore >>>>> >>>>>Parts seem to be available more lately, especially direct from TI. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>That was to keep my drone airborne via a thin coax carrying high voltage >>>>>>transformed back to 7V at the drone: >>>>>> http://panteltje.com/pub/drone_power_small_core_test_IMG_6114.JPG >>>>>> http://panteltje.com/pub/h501s_drone_remote_power_flight_test_1_IMG_6274.JPG >>>>>> http://panteltje.com/pub/h501s_drone_remote_power_test_ground_control_1_IMG_6276.JPG >>>>> >>>>>I tested a 30 ga twisted pair of magnet wire. It failed at 1400 volts. >>>>>Wire-wrap wire must be 10 KV-ish. You'd need a clever HV downconverter >>>>>to use really light wire. >>>>> >>>>>How about a single wire to power a drone? >>>> >>>>How would that work? >>> >>>High frequency AC, working against the capacitance of the drone to the >>>world. Some tuned circuit on each end. >>> >>>>Maybe optical fiber for a high power laser? Never tried that, do have some optical fiber here.. >>> >>>Power over fiber is done, but it's expensive. >>> >>>>These coaxes I use have teflon based insulation and are really good for some hundreds of volts, >>>>very light at that, >>>>The idea was to make as little RF as possible (am using about 100 kHz), put a small antenna on the drone >>>>and send the amplified received RF down the same coax (many MHz), or even use the whole coax >>>>as shortwave antenna, balloon would work too of course, >>>>just playing and investigating :-) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>>Tried Micro-coax? Really tiny stuff. >> >>Did not know about that, did some web searching now >>but on the Mouser link I see max 30V rms >> https://eu.mouser.com/new/alpha-wire/alphawire-micro-coaxial-cables/ >> > >That's silly. Nothing breaks down at 30 volts. I expect it's good for >a few KV at least. When I was a kid I ran RG59 at 12KV. That's another >story.TV HV?>>was just a test, cannot even fly a drone where I live now >>area is close to mil airport, helies and F35 and F16 all the time >>Now soon with nukes, one coming right now ;-) (sound). >> (US wants to ugrade the nukes it has stationed in Europe including here I suppose) >> >>Such a small drone wants about 70 W for flying: >> http://panteltje.com/pub/hubsan_h501s_current_test_full_throttle_IMG_6290.JPG >> more than 10 A DC at 7 V or so. >> >>So using high voltage AC to get the current in the coax down, and transforming and rectifying >>back at the drone side: >> http://panteltje.com/pub/h501s_drone_remote_power_drone_side_IMG_6278.JPG >> The propeller air stream cools the rectifier diodes and the ringcore. >>It all works :-) >> Those are special diodes and special high quality elcos, > > >Send DC up to avoid rectifying and filtering. There is probably some >cute little switcher chip to go from, say, 150 DC down to 7.Good idea, but it is 10 A, needs big inductor anyways. If you go higher in frequency maybe a smaller inductor but harmonics? drone communication is st at a few GHz>
Reply by ●October 28, 20222022-10-28
On Fri, 28 Oct 2022 04:38:54 -0700, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote:>On Fri, 28 Oct 2022 04:56:20 GMT, Jan Panteltje ><pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote: > >>On a sunny day (Thu, 27 Oct 2022 09:33:12 -0700) it happened John Larkin >><jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in >><99cllhp645bv1v1qsk0hb2nccifpbecgvn@4ax.com>: >> >>>I am struggling for every square mm of board area. >>> >>>>OTOH BAD things must happen for those parts not to be around anymore >>> >>>Parts seem to be available more lately, especially direct from TI. >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>>That was to keep my drone airborne via a thin coax carrying high voltage >>>>transformed back to 7V at the drone: >>>> http://panteltje.com/pub/drone_power_small_core_test_IMG_6114.JPG >>>> http://panteltje.com/pub/h501s_drone_remote_power_flight_test_1_IMG_6274.JPG >>>> http://panteltje.com/pub/h501s_drone_remote_power_test_ground_control_1_IMG_6276.JPG >>> >>>I tested a 30 ga twisted pair of magnet wire. It failed at 1400 volts. >>>Wire-wrap wire must be 10 KV-ish. You'd need a clever HV downconverter >>>to use really light wire. >>> >>>How about a single wire to power a drone? >> >>How would that work? > >High frequency AC, working against the capacitance of the drone to the >world. Some tuned circuit on each end. >There is a standard dodge, a wire with a thick dielectric jacket (like coax without the shield), carrying a GHz RF signal in guided-wave transport mode. The ends are a pair of horn antennas that launch and receive the RF energy. This has been used for data links in fielded military systems, but probably not at the power level needed to fly a drone. Joe Gwinn
Reply by ●October 28, 20222022-10-28
On Mon, 24 Oct 2022 13:16:20 -0700, John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:>We have some sims that run absurdly slow. What are your favorite >speedups? > >In LT spice, I have arbitrarily done > >.opt reltol=.002 > >.opt abstol=5n > >.opt trtol=5 > >but that's just guessing. It may work with my parts but mess up an >encrypted model that I have no visibility into. > >Sometimes one solver is unaccountably better than another.We gave up on believable simulation. https://www.dropbox.com/s/0gneise39m897mq/Z542A_TPS_Test.jpg?raw=1 My layout guy did the sch and 4-layer PCB in one day. He's good.
