On Monday, 20 June 2022 at 11:59:23 UTC+2, DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:> John Dope <alway...@message.header> wrote in news:t8p0hs$q7d$2@dont- > email.me: > > Yes, you can call the whole thing a "battery", or a "cluster of > > cells/batteries" but in fact it's made up of a bunch of INDIVIDUAL > > batteries. > Individual CELLS. There is no such thing as an individual battery. > The two terms are mutually exclusive. > > Bwuhahahahahhahahha!John Doe’s profile photo John Doe unread, 05:16 (7 hours ago) to Off topic troll... -- John Doe <alway...@message.header> wrote:> Path: not-for-mail > From: John Doe <alway...@message.header> > Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design > Subject: OT: Do electric cars let you monitor INDIVIDUAL battery temperature? > Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2022 03:09:31 -0000 (UTC) > Organization: A noiseless patient Spider > Lines: 12 > Message-ID: <t8oodb$jl3$1...@dont-email.me> > Injection-Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2022 03:09:31 -0000 (UTC) > Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="1fd94f1ab3319182823e9a7cc17b0810"; logging-data="20131"; mail-complaints-to="ab...@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/kW6t4HSU9uYD1yxWt3KMwZFSvwBfvTWg=" > User-Agent: Xnews/2006.08.05 > Cancel-Lock: sha1:3dRubR1cmnjuh8xhiSBpq8pxOno= > X-Received-Bytes: 1353
OT: Do electric cars let you monitor INDIVIDUAL battery temperature?
Started by ●June 20, 2022
Reply by ●June 20, 20222022-06-20
Reply by ●June 20, 20222022-06-20
On Monday, 20 June 2022 at 11:59:23 UTC+2, DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:> John Dope <alway...@message.header> wrote in news:t8p0hs$q7d$2@dont- > email.me: > > Yes, you can call the whole thing a "battery", or a "cluster of > > cells/batteries" but in fact it's made up of a bunch of INDIVIDUAL > > batteries. > Individual CELLS. There is no such thing as an individual battery. > The two terms are mutually exclusive. > > Bwuhahahahahhahahha!Edward Hernandez’s profile photo Edward Hernandez 05:19 (7 hours ago) to Troll Doe stated the following in message-id <svsh05$lbh$5...@dont-email.me> (http://al.howardknight.net/?ID=164904625100) posted Fri, 4 Mar 2022 08:01:09 -0000 (UTC):> Compared to other regulars, Bozo contributes practically nothing > except insults to this group.Yet, since Wed, 5 Jan 2022 04:10:38 -0000 (UTC) Troll Doe's post ratio to USENET (**) has been 62.0% of its posts contributing "nothing except insults" to USENET. ** Since Wed, 5 Jan 2022 04:10:38 -0000 (UTC) Troll Doe has posted at least 1989 articles to USENET. Of which 173 have been pure insults and 1060 have been Troll Doe "troll format" postings. The John Dope troll stated the following in message-id <sdhn7c$pkp$4...@dont-email.me>:> The troll doesn't even know how to format a USENET post...And the John Dope troll stated the following in message-id <sg3kr7$qt5$1...@dont-email.me>:> The reason Bozo cannot figure out how to get Google to keep from > breaking its lines in inappropriate places is because Bozo is > CLUELESS...And yet, the clueless John Dope troll has itself posted yet another incorrectly formatted USENET posting on Mon, 20 Jun 2022 03:16:50 GMT in message-id <CERrK.357724$%OV1.2...@usenetxs.com>. UMVFlEvR8r
Reply by ●June 20, 20222022-06-20
On 6/20/2022 5:52 AM, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:> John Doe <always.look@message.header> wrote in > news:t8oodb$jl3$1@dont-email.me: > >> Seems to me that is an important question, no matter what alleged >> device protection there is. >> >> I would want to know what the highest INDIVIDUAL battery >> temperature is. I would want an alarm when any battery reaches X >> degrees. >> >> Doesn't matter how many batteries there are. The more batteries, >> the more important for the driver to know what's going on. >> >> I suppose they do not keep track of individual battery >> temperature, but maybe they should. I would want that. Too many >> batteries to keep track of? Then too risky. >> > > They are called cells. A group of cells is called a battery. > > It was always that way. Even a nine volt battery is a group of > small cells. Individual cells like C cell or D cell or AA or AAA > cell got called "battery" by idiots in the '60s and beyond until > Webster finally "adopted" battery as meaning any DC power source. > Another place where America's folks got the dumbed down version and > now they are all that way. > > But in this case... These are individual cells arrayed together to > form a battery. And individual cells can be and likey are > temperature monitored but likely would not "let you monitor" it. It > is internal. Part of the charge/discharge "watchdog" circuitry.On the Chevy Volt you can monitor the voltage of every individual cell with any OB2 app, don't know about individual cell temperature or whether that's even relevant information for the ECU, maybe not. Individual cell temperature is surely monitored internal to the battery by the battery controller and if something's seriously amiss it'll flag the ECU and report some cryptic battery-related fault code to the user
Reply by ●June 20, 20222022-06-20
On Monday, June 20, 2022 at 5:09:38 AM UTC+2, John Doe wrote:> Seems to me that is an important question, no matter what alleged device > protection there is. > > I would want to know what the highest INDIVIDUAL battery temperature is. I > would want an alarm when any battery reaches X degrees. > > Doesn't matter how many batteries there are. The more batteries, the more > important for the driver to know what's going on.A battery is a battery of cells. The cell is a component with two different electrodes at each end, and a battery of cells is built up out of an arbitrary number of individual cells connected in parallel and in series. It's very helpful to know the temperature of the cell in the middle of the battery - it's mostly going to be the hottest cell in the assembly. If there is variation between individual cells you may get hotspots elsewhere, and four more sensor arranged as tetrahedron around the centre can let you pick this up.> I suppose they do not keep track of individual battery temperature, but maybe > they should. I would want that. Too many batteries to keep track of? Then too > risky.The temperature if an individual cell is determined both by the heat being generated in that cell and the heat being generated in adjacent cells. The temperature of the central cell is determined by the thermal gradient from the central cell out to cells on the periphery of the battery, who have to dissipate the heat they generate, and the heat generated by all the cells in the layers below them. Monitoring the temperature of individual cells would probably be an overkill, but monitoring the half-way points on the thermal gradients could well make sense. Flyguy has already posted idiotic misconceptions about this sort of stuff. I've suggested that you aren't quite a stupid as he is, but it's arguing precedence between a flea and louse. -- Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply by ●June 20, 20222022-06-20
On Mon, 20 Jun 2022 09:12:59 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:>On 6/20/2022 5:52 AM, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote: >> John Doe <always.look@message.header> wrote in >> news:t8oodb$jl3$1@dont-email.me: >> >>> Seems to me that is an important question, no matter what alleged >>> device protection there is. >>> >>> I would want to know what the highest INDIVIDUAL battery >>> temperature is. I would want an alarm when any battery reaches X >>> degrees. >>> >>> Doesn't matter how many batteries there are. The more batteries, >>> the more important for the driver to know what's going on. >>> >>> I suppose they do not keep track of individual battery >>> temperature, but maybe they should. I would want that. Too many >>> batteries to keep track of? Then too risky. >>> >> >> They are called cells. A group of cells is called a battery. >> >> It was always that way. Even a nine volt battery is a group of >> small cells. Individual cells like C cell or D cell or AA or AAA >> cell got called "battery" by idiots in the '60s and beyond until >> Webster finally "adopted" battery as meaning any DC power source. >> Another place where America's folks got the dumbed down version and >> now they are all that way. >> >> But in this case... These are individual cells arrayed together to >> form a battery. And individual cells can be and likey are >> temperature monitored but likely would not "let you monitor" it. It >> is internal. Part of the charge/discharge "watchdog" circuitry. > >On the Chevy Volt you can monitor the voltage of every individual cell >with any OB2 app, don't know about individual cell temperature or >whether that's even relevant information for the ECU, maybe not. > >Individual cell temperature is surely monitored internal to the battery >by the battery controller and if something's seriously amiss it'll flag >the ECU and report some cryptic battery-related fault code to the userA Tesla has 3k to over 6k cells, depending on model. I doubt they have thousands of temp sensors. -- Anybody can count to one. - Robert Widlar
Reply by ●June 20, 20222022-06-20
On Sunday, June 19, 2022 at 8:09:38 PM UTC-7, John Doe wrote:> Seems to me that is an important question, no matter what alleged device > protection there is. > > I would want to know what the highest INDIVIDUAL battery temperature is. I > would want an alarm when any battery reaches X degrees. > > Doesn't matter how many batteries there are. The more batteries, the more > important for the driver to know what's going on. > > I suppose they do not keep track of individual battery temperature, but maybe > they should. I would want that. Too many batteries to keep track of? Then too > risky.There are four temperature sensors for the Leaf. The highest temperature tends to be at the back seat stack. The danger zone is 120C.
Reply by ●June 20, 20222022-06-20
On 6/20/2022 10:39 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:> On Mon, 20 Jun 2022 09:12:59 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote: > >> On 6/20/2022 5:52 AM, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote: >>> John Doe <always.look@message.header> wrote in >>> news:t8oodb$jl3$1@dont-email.me: >>> >>>> Seems to me that is an important question, no matter what alleged >>>> device protection there is. >>>> >>>> I would want to know what the highest INDIVIDUAL battery >>>> temperature is. I would want an alarm when any battery reaches X >>>> degrees. >>>> >>>> Doesn't matter how many batteries there are. The more batteries, >>>> the more important for the driver to know what's going on. >>>> >>>> I suppose they do not keep track of individual battery >>>> temperature, but maybe they should. I would want that. Too many >>>> batteries to keep track of? Then too risky. >>>> >>> >>> They are called cells. A group of cells is called a battery. >>> >>> It was always that way. Even a nine volt battery is a group of >>> small cells. Individual cells like C cell or D cell or AA or AAA >>> cell got called "battery" by idiots in the '60s and beyond until >>> Webster finally "adopted" battery as meaning any DC power source. >>> Another place where America's folks got the dumbed down version and >>> now they are all that way. >>> >>> But in this case... These are individual cells arrayed together to >>> form a battery. And individual cells can be and likey are >>> temperature monitored but likely would not "let you monitor" it. It >>> is internal. Part of the charge/discharge "watchdog" circuitry. >> >> On the Chevy Volt you can monitor the voltage of every individual cell >> with any OB2 app, don't know about individual cell temperature or >> whether that's even relevant information for the ECU, maybe not. >> >> Individual cell temperature is surely monitored internal to the battery >> by the battery controller and if something's seriously amiss it'll flag >> the ECU and report some cryptic battery-related fault code to the user > > A Tesla has 3k to over 6k cells, depending on model. I doubt they have > thousands of temp sensors. > >The Model S a least looks to use the BQ76PL536: <https://circuitdigest.com/article/tesla-model-s-battery-system-an-engineers-perspective> as a macrocell controller, looks like it can likely at least detect overtemp at the macrocell level and throw a fault as that feature seems built into the controller: <https://www.ti.com/product/BQ76PL536>> I believe there's also a number of temperature sensors for the coolant loop like 32 or 64 or something, coolant loop controller doesn't need to know cell temperature at the 3-6 cell level of granularity to work OK
Reply by ●June 20, 20222022-06-20
Ed Lee <edward.ming.lee@gmail.com> wrote:> John Doe wrote:>> Seems to me that is an important question, no matter what alleged >> device protection there is. >> >> I would want to know what the highest INDIVIDUAL battery temperature >> is. I would want an alarm when any battery reaches X degrees. >> >> Doesn't matter how many batteries there are. The more batteries, the >> more important for the driver to know what's going on. >> >> I suppose they do not keep track of individual battery temperature, but >> maybe they should. I would want that. Too many batteries to keep track >> of? Then too risky. > > There are four temperature sensors for the Leaf. The highest > temperature tends to be at the back seat stack. The danger zone is > 120C.The driver controlled car seat warmer must be one of the best inventions ever, leading to the funnest conversations.
Reply by ●June 20, 20222022-06-20
From Merriam-Webster... battery: a single cell that furnishes electric current "need to replace the flashlight's batteries" At least here in America... That's common, to call one battery in a group of batteries a "battery". When we replace the batteries in a device, no matter how many there are, we say we are replacing "batteries", not the "cells". At least here in America... If one wanted to monitor the temperature of each battery in a flashlight battery compartment, saying "I want to monitor INDIVIDUAL battery temperatures" is perfectly acceptable English. I'm not bashing the bashers for calling them "cells". Language is for communication and NOBODY misunderstands what I'm saying. No point in discussing anything with Bill "Bozo" Sloman, the Australian troll. Bozo is an incessant liar who cannot be reasoned with. Its fiction never ends. "the user has posted under the same name in other places, so not nym-shifting" (Bozo sucks at logic) "the Mueller investigation was about Trump only because Trump made it so" (Bozo being Bozo) "the concepts "male" and "female" are essentially social constructions" (Bozo is a textbook cannibal leftist) -- Anthony William Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:> X-Received: by 2002:a05:6000:993:b0:21b:8f16:5b3f with SMTP id by19-20020a056000099300b0021b8f165b3fmr5238305wrb.628.1655731799157; Mon, 20 Jun 2022 06:29:59 -0700 (PDT) > X-Received: by 2002:a25:cc4c:0:b0:668:a68a:b9fa with SMTP id l73-20020a25cc4c000000b00668a68ab9famr22668126ybf.396.1655731798660; Mon, 20 Jun 2022 06:29:58 -0700 (PDT) > Path: eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!news.uzoreto.com!feeder1.cambriumusenet.nl!feed.tweak.nl!209.85.128.88.MISMATCH!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail > Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design > Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2022 06:29:58 -0700 (PDT) > In-Reply-To: <t8oodb$jl3$1@dont-email.me> > Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=192.87.79.65; posting-account=SJ46pgoAAABuUDuHc5uDiXN30ATE-zi- > NNTP-Posting-Host: 192.87.79.65 > References: <t8oodb$jl3$1@dont-email.me> > User-Agent: G2/1.0 > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Message-ID: <04c6a3a9-d5c6-41c3-af6a-044f138b6838n@googlegroups.com> > Subject: Re: OT: Do electric cars let you monitor INDIVIDUAL battery temperature? > From: Anthony William Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> > Injection-Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2022 13:29:59 +0000 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > Xref: reader02.eternal-september.org sci.electronics.design:672131 > > On Monday, June 20, 2022 at 5:09:38 AM UTC+2, John Doe wrote: >> Seems to me that is an important question, no matter what alleged device >> protection there is. >> >> I would want to know what the highest INDIVIDUAL battery temperature is. I >> would want an alarm when any battery reaches X degrees. >> >> Doesn't matter how many batteries there are. The more batteries, the more >> important for the driver to know what's going on. > > A battery is a battery of cells. The cell is a component with two different electrodes at each end, and a battery of cells is built up out of an arbitrary number of individual cells connected in parallel and in series. > > It's very helpful to know the temperature of the cell in the middle of the battery - it's mostly going to be the hottest cell in the assembly. > If there is variation between individual cells you may get hotspots elsewhere, and four more sensor arranged as tetrahedron around the centre can let you pick this up. > >> I suppose they do not keep track of individual battery temperature, but maybe >> they should. I would want that. Too many batteries to keep track of? Then too >> risky. > > The temperature if an individual cell is determined both by the heat being generated in that cell and the heat being generated in adjacent cells. > The temperature of the central cell is determined by the thermal gradient from the central cell out to cells on the periphery of the battery, who have to dissipate the heat they generate, and the heat generated by all the cells in the layers below them. > > Monitoring the temperature of individual cells would probably be an overkill, but monitoring the half-way points on the thermal gradients could well make sense. > > Flyguy has already posted idiotic misconceptions about this sort of stuff. I've suggested that you aren't quite a stupid as he is, but it's arguing precedence between a flea and louse. > > -- > Bill Sloman, Sydney > >
Reply by ●June 20, 20222022-06-20
Troll Doe stated the following in message-id <svsh05$lbh$5@dont-email.me> (http://al.howardknight.net/?ID=164904625100) posted Fri, 4 Mar 2022 08:01:09 -0000 (UTC):> Compared to other regulars, Bozo contributes practically nothing > except insults to this group.Yet, since Wed, 5 Jan 2022 04:10:38 -0000 (UTC) Troll Doe's post ratio to USENET (**) has been 62.0% of its posts contributing "nothing except insults" to USENET. ** Since Wed, 5 Jan 2022 04:10:38 -0000 (UTC) Troll Doe has posted at least 2008 articles to USENET. Of which 173 have been pure insults and 1071 have been Troll Doe "troll format" postings. The John Dope troll stated the following in message-id <sdhn7c$pkp$4@dont-email.me>:> The troll doesn't even know how to format a USENET post...And the John Dope troll stated the following in message-id <sg3kr7$qt5$1@dont-email.me>:> The reason Bozo cannot figure out how to get Google to keep from > breaking its lines in inappropriate places is because Bozo is > CLUELESS...And yet, the clueless John Dope troll has itself posted yet another incorrectly formatted USENET posting on Mon, 20 Jun 2022 23:27:17 -0000 (UTC) in message-id <t8qvok$u6p$8@dont-email.me>. This posting is a public service announcement for any google groups readers who happen by to point out that John Doe does not even follow the rules it uses to troll other posters. tg4qUkyWSp+y
