On Wed, 13 Apr 2022 20:52:41 +0100, RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> wrote:> Today the electric cars are the quickest on the road. > The classic petrol muscle cars are vying for the silver medal. > > Was it obvious to the designers, from day one, > that this would be the case? Is it simply a power/weight calculation? > > I'm congenitally leery of simple explanations -It's only fast while there's enough Lithium and electricity to go around. These are both running very low.
Tesla is fast
Started by ●April 13, 2022
Reply by ●April 15, 20222022-04-15
Reply by ●April 15, 20222022-04-15
On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 3:00:53 AM UTC-4, Clifford Heath wrote:> On 15/4/22 11:57 am, Ricky wrote: > > On Thursday, April 14, 2022 at 7:48:23 PM UTC-4, Clifford Heath wrote: > >> On 15/4/22 9:19 am, Ricky wrote: > >>> On Thursday, April 14, 2022 at 6:42:19 PM UTC-4, Clifford Heath wrote: > >>>> On 15/4/22 2:28 am, Ed Lee wrote: > >>>>> On Thursday, April 14, 2022 at 8:46:32 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote: > >>>>>> On Wednesday, April 13, 2022 at 6:44:19 PM UTC-4, lang...@fonz.dk wrote: > >>>>>>> torsdag den 14. april 2022 kl. 00.38.16 UTC+2 skrev Ed Lee: > >>>>>>>> On Wednesday, April 13, 2022 at 2:52:18 PM UTC-7, lang...@fonz.dk wrote: > >>>>>>>>> onsdag den 13. april 2022 kl. 23.02.08 UTC+2 skrev Ed Lee: > >>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, April 13, 2022 at 12:52:45 PM UTC-7, RichD wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>> Today the electric cars are the quickest on the road. > >>>>>>>>>>> The classic petrol muscle cars are vying for the silver medal. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Was it obvious to the designers, from day one, > >>>>>>>>>>> that this would be the case? Is it simply a power/weight calculation? > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> I'm congenitally leery of simple explanations - > >>>>>>>>>> For one thing, it's easier to install and control multiple motors. For maximum performance, you can put one (or more) motor per wheel, which is hard to do with ICE. > >>>>>>>>> And electric motors can usually handle quite a lot of extra power short term > >>>>>>>> I am thinking in terms of trucking. Perhaps 18 motors for 18 wheelers. Smaller distributed motors might work better for heavy cargo. > >>>>>>> trucks are not fast, and most of the cargo is going to be batteries ... > >>>>>> More FUD. Usually you post real information. What bee is up your bonnet about BEV trucks? > >>>>> > >>>>> Biggest problem is to maintain the current truck/driver model, where they are driving 8 to 10 hours of the same truck. In that case, we might need upward of 10,000 pounds of batteries. However, there are always shorter hauls where they can decouple the drivers with trucks/trailers, or go with hybrid diesel/EV. > >>>> Read the link I sent. Standard prime movers are being retrofitted (in > >>>> under a week!) with electric drive motors and quick-swap batteries. The > >>>> trucks aren't limited by the geometry or aesthetics of a passenger car, > >>>> so standardised interchangable batteries are easily achievable. > >>>> > >>>> The batteries are rented, so the owner just pays for the > >>>> power+depreciation. Battery exchange/charging stations are being > >>>> installed every few 100km along major highways. > >>> > >>> I'm interested, but not enough to read through the fluff. Can you provide the pertinent facts? Are they talking about rechargeable batteries or primary cells, like aluminum-air? > >>> > >> Rechargable. Currently Lithium, but the module form factor is designed > >> to adapt to likely new chemistries. The important point is the drive > >> motor and battery fits into the existing motor cavity and fuel tank > >> locations, so there is no structural modification required. > >> > >> The conversion cost is equivalent to rebuilding or replacing the diesel, > >> and the operating cost per kilometre a little over half, and service > >> costs also significantly reduced. > >> > >> <https://www.januselectric.com.au/#:~:text=Interchangeable%20Parts> > > > > I suppose a battery swap might be more useful for a truck than for cars. But there are issues with scheduling. When a truck has a delivery, that delivery has a schedule. You arrive by the time of your dock appointment or you lose it. I would expect battery swaps to be the same way. So an appointment is made in advance and what do we do to make sure we arrive in time for appointments? We arrive early. The whole point of the battery swap is to reduce wasted time charging. So how does it help to have to arrive 15 to 30 minutes early to make sure of meeting the appointment, vs. simply spending 45 minutes to charge? > > > > It's hard to imagine a battery swap for trucks that is so rapid that no appointment is needed. But maybe that's just the limit of my imagination. > It's not that hard to read the damn FAQs, is it?This is one of those web sites I find very hard to read because instead of making the site legible, they chose to use stylish, like grey fonts with thin strokes. Sorry, they clearly are not looking for business or investment from me. I think I was in second grade when I was taught to not read every word individually, but to scan the paragraph looking at the shapes of words. My vision is no longer good enough to be able to do that for these obscured web sites. So rather than read every word, one at a time, I read none of them and visit web sites that aren't designed to torture their viewers. That's why I am not interested in reading the *damn* FAQ.> The answer is 3 minutes (which took me about 3 seconds to find): > > <https://www.januselectric.com.au/#:~:text=How%20does> > > "The Janus Electric software manages the time availability of charged > batteries."The three minutes is the time to actually change the battery. How long does it take to drive to the facility, get in line and handle the payment? I don't see any of that mentioned in the FAQ. It's not three minutes to swap the battery in any real sense, just like it's not 5 minutes to fill your gas tank at a service station.> > Comparing to fueling up or charging, the battery swap is going to require trained personnel and something that may be a bit on the fancy side to swap out the battery. I don't know if that will be a significant factor in the cost of the service or not. > > > > The main issue will likely be the company itself. You are limited to working with one outfit, serving how large an area? They can even fold. > For an e-power enthusiast, you're very full of reasons why it won't > work. Yet you bleat so loudly when people act the same way about Tesla's.Analogies are only useful when they are useful analogies. What I say about BEVs has nothing to do with this company. I didn't even know e-power was a thing. If you think my points are of no value, then explain that to me. Or you can just whine that I'm being "unfair". I didn't say it would not work. In fact, I start off saying it might be more useful for trucks than cars. It would have an even better chance of working if it used a primary battery with a much longer range. But mostly, there needs to be some competition on the battery replacement side. -- Rick C. ---+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging ---+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Reply by ●April 15, 20222022-04-15
On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 8:31:03 AM UTC-4, Jasen Betts wrote:> On 2022-04-15, Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Thursday, April 14, 2022 at 7:48:23 PM UTC-4, Clifford Heath wrote: > >> On 15/4/22 9:19 am, Ricky wrote: > >> > On Thursday, April 14, 2022 at 6:42:19 PM UTC-4, Clifford Heath wrote: > >> >> On 15/4/22 2:28 am, Ed Lee wrote: > >> >>> On Thursday, April 14, 2022 at 8:46:32 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote: > >> >>>> On Wednesday, April 13, 2022 at 6:44:19 PM UTC-4, lang...@fonz.dk wrote: > >> >>>>> torsdag den 14. april 2022 kl. 00.38.16 UTC+2 skrev Ed Lee: > >> >>>>>> On Wednesday, April 13, 2022 at 2:52:18 PM UTC-7, lang...@fonz.dk wrote: > >> >>>>>>> onsdag den 13. april 2022 kl. 23.02.08 UTC+2 skrev Ed Lee: > >> >>>>>>>> On Wednesday, April 13, 2022 at 12:52:45 PM UTC-7, RichD wrote: > >> >>>>>>>>> Today the electric cars are the quickest on the road. > >> >>>>>>>>> The classic petrol muscle cars are vying for the silver medal. > >> >>>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>> Was it obvious to the designers, from day one, > >> >>>>>>>>> that this would be the case? Is it simply a power/weight calculation? > >> >>>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>> I'm congenitally leery of simple explanations - > >> >>>>>>>> For one thing, it's easier to install and control multiple motors. For maximum performance, you can put one (or more) motor per wheel, which is hard to do with ICE. > >> >>>>>>> And electric motors can usually handle quite a lot of extra power short term > >> >>>>>> I am thinking in terms of trucking. Perhaps 18 motors for 18 wheelers. Smaller distributed motors might work better for heavy cargo. > >> >>>>> trucks are not fast, and most of the cargo is going to be batteries ... > >> >>>> More FUD. Usually you post real information. What bee is up your bonnet about BEV trucks? > >> >>> > >> >>> Biggest problem is to maintain the current truck/driver model, where they are driving 8 to 10 hours of the same truck. In that case, we might need upward of 10,000 pounds of batteries. However, there are always shorter hauls where they can decouple the drivers with trucks/trailers, or go with hybrid diesel/EV. > >> >> Read the link I sent. Standard prime movers are being retrofitted (in > >> >> under a week!) with electric drive motors and quick-swap batteries. The > >> >> trucks aren't limited by the geometry or aesthetics of a passenger car, > >> >> so standardised interchangable batteries are easily achievable. > >> >> > >> >> The batteries are rented, so the owner just pays for the > >> >> power+depreciation. Battery exchange/charging stations are being > >> >> installed every few 100km along major highways. > >> > > >> > I'm interested, but not enough to read through the fluff. Can you provide the pertinent facts? Are they talking about rechargeable batteries or primary cells, like aluminum-air? > >> > > >> Rechargable. Currently Lithium, but the module form factor is designed > >> to adapt to likely new chemistries. The important point is the drive > >> motor and battery fits into the existing motor cavity and fuel tank > >> locations, so there is no structural modification required. > >> > >> The conversion cost is equivalent to rebuilding or replacing the diesel, > >> and the operating cost per kilometre a little over half, and service > >> costs also significantly reduced. > >> > >> <https://www.januselectric.com.au/#:~:text=Interchangeable%20Parts> > > > > I suppose a battery swap might be more useful for a truck than for cars. But there are issues with scheduling. When a truck has a delivery, that delivery has a schedule. You arrive by the time of your dock appointment or you lose it. I would expect battery swaps to be the same way. So an appointment is made in advance and what do we do to make sure we arrive in time for appointments? We arrive early. The whole point of the battery swap is to reduce wasted time charging. So how does it help to have to arrive 15 to 30 minutes early to make sure of meeting the appointment, vs. simply spending 45 minutes to charge? > > > > It's hard to imagine a battery swap for trucks that is so rapid that > > no appointment is needed. But maybe that's just the limit of my > > imagination. > I can't see it being significantly slower than swapping trailers. > > drive into position, unplug the cables, release the clamps, whistle > for a fork-lift, crane, or whatever. > > The main issue will likely be the company itself. You are limited > > to working with one outfit, serving how large an area? They can even > > fold. > yeah, it's a risk if you're stuck with a single provider.Too many engineers, too few who think. So a random truck drives in and the battery is replaced with no payment, no nothing? Even swapping a trailer means you have to park one trailer, uncouple, jack up the stands, then pull away, align with the other trailer, ect. Other than the first few, this won't be done by someone with a fork lift. Fork lift operators break things too often. Maybe they will find a way to optimize this, but I don't see how a 10 or 15 minute battery swap is going to be that much more useful than plugging in to charge while going inside to crap and eat. This invention satisfies a need that doesn't exist in the case of truckers. Truckers have to stop to eat. They are not machines. There is already time enough to charge in a trucker's schedule. If you use a smaller battery to improve payload capacity, you stop twice for 15 minutes each, you still have to stop for 30 minutes for the driver! So maybe someone should stop looking at the engineering minutia and explain the use case in detail? I'm not seeing it. -- Rick C. --+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging --+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Reply by ●April 15, 20222022-04-15
On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 12:19:37 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:> On Wed, 13 Apr 2022 20:52:41 +0100, RichD <r_dela...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > Today the electric cars are the quickest on the road. > > The classic petrol muscle cars are vying for the silver medal. > > > > Was it obvious to the designers, from day one, > > that this would be the case? Is it simply a power/weight calculation? > > > > I'm congenitally leery of simple explanations - > It's only fast while there's enough Lithium and electricity to go around. These are both running very low.It's going to be terrible when we use up all the electricity and have to do without. I don't know why no one is working on an electricity substitute. Maybe we can use fiber optics and channel light around to supply energy. There's always light, well, at least in the daytime. -- Rick C. --++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging --++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Reply by ●April 15, 20222022-04-15
On Fri, 15 Apr 2022 17:45:33 +0100, Ricky <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:> On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 12:19:37 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote: >> On Wed, 13 Apr 2022 20:52:41 +0100, RichD <r_dela...@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >> > Today the electric cars are the quickest on the road. >> > The classic petrol muscle cars are vying for the silver medal. >> > >> > Was it obvious to the designers, from day one, >> > that this would be the case? Is it simply a power/weight calculation? >> > >> > I'm congenitally leery of simple explanations - >> It's only fast while there's enough Lithium and electricity to go around. These are both running very low. > > It's going to be terrible when we use up all the electricity and have to do without. I don't know why no one is working on an electricity substitute. Maybe we can use fiber optics and channel light around to supply energy. There's always light, well, at least in the daytime.We need to start recycling electrons. As for light, why not a fiber optic cable from the other side of the world?
Reply by ●April 15, 20222022-04-15
"Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote in news:op.1koec5avmvhs6z@ryzen.lan:> We need to start recycling electrons. >They do not deplete, you stupid fuck.
Reply by ●April 15, 20222022-04-15
On 16/4/22 2:25 am, Ricky wrote:> On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 3:00:53 AM UTC-4, Clifford Heath wrote: >> On 15/4/22 11:57 am, Ricky wrote: >>> On Thursday, April 14, 2022 at 7:48:23 PM UTC-4, Clifford Heath wrote: >>>> On 15/4/22 9:19 am, Ricky wrote: >>>>> On Thursday, April 14, 2022 at 6:42:19 PM UTC-4, Clifford Heath wrote: >>>>>> On 15/4/22 2:28 am, Ed Lee wrote: >>>>>>> On Thursday, April 14, 2022 at 8:46:32 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote: >>>>>>>> On Wednesday, April 13, 2022 at 6:44:19 PM UTC-4, lang...@fonz.dk wrote: >>>>>>>>> torsdag den 14. april 2022 kl. 00.38.16 UTC+2 skrev Ed Lee: >>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, April 13, 2022 at 2:52:18 PM UTC-7, lang...@fonz.dk wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> onsdag den 13. april 2022 kl. 23.02.08 UTC+2 skrev Ed Lee: >>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, April 13, 2022 at 12:52:45 PM UTC-7, RichD wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Today the electric cars are the quickest on the road. >>>>>>>>>>>>> The classic petrol muscle cars are vying for the silver medal. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Was it obvious to the designers, from day one, >>>>>>>>>>>>> that this would be the case? Is it simply a power/weight calculation? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm congenitally leery of simple explanations - >>>>>>>>>>>> For one thing, it's easier to install and control multiple motors. For maximum performance, you can put one (or more) motor per wheel, which is hard to do with ICE. >>>>>>>>>>> And electric motors can usually handle quite a lot of extra power short term >>>>>>>>>> I am thinking in terms of trucking. Perhaps 18 motors for 18 wheelers. Smaller distributed motors might work better for heavy cargo. >>>>>>>>> trucks are not fast, and most of the cargo is going to be batteries ... >>>>>>>> More FUD. Usually you post real information. What bee is up your bonnet about BEV trucks? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Biggest problem is to maintain the current truck/driver model, where they are driving 8 to 10 hours of the same truck. In that case, we might need upward of 10,000 pounds of batteries. However, there are always shorter hauls where they can decouple the drivers with trucks/trailers, or go with hybrid diesel/EV. >>>>>> Read the link I sent. Standard prime movers are being retrofitted (in >>>>>> under a week!) with electric drive motors and quick-swap batteries. The >>>>>> trucks aren't limited by the geometry or aesthetics of a passenger car, >>>>>> so standardised interchangable batteries are easily achievable. >>>>>> >>>>>> The batteries are rented, so the owner just pays for the >>>>>> power+depreciation. Battery exchange/charging stations are being >>>>>> installed every few 100km along major highways. >>>>> >>>>> I'm interested, but not enough to read through the fluff. Can you provide the pertinent facts? Are they talking about rechargeable batteries or primary cells, like aluminum-air? >>>>> >>>> Rechargable. Currently Lithium, but the module form factor is designed >>>> to adapt to likely new chemistries. The important point is the drive >>>> motor and battery fits into the existing motor cavity and fuel tank >>>> locations, so there is no structural modification required. >>>> >>>> The conversion cost is equivalent to rebuilding or replacing the diesel, >>>> and the operating cost per kilometre a little over half, and service >>>> costs also significantly reduced. >>>> >>>> <https://www.januselectric.com.au/#:~:text=Interchangeable%20Parts> >>> >>> I suppose a battery swap might be more useful for a truck than for cars. But there are issues with scheduling. When a truck has a delivery, that delivery has a schedule. You arrive by the time of your dock appointment or you lose it. I would expect battery swaps to be the same way. So an appointment is made in advance and what do we do to make sure we arrive in time for appointments? We arrive early. The whole point of the battery swap is to reduce wasted time charging. So how does it help to have to arrive 15 to 30 minutes early to make sure of meeting the appointment, vs. simply spending 45 minutes to charge? >>> >>> It's hard to imagine a battery swap for trucks that is so rapid that no appointment is needed. But maybe that's just the limit of my imagination. >> It's not that hard to read the damn FAQs, is it? > > This is one of those web sites I find very hard to read because instead of making the site legible, they chose to use stylish, like grey fonts with thin strokes. Sorry, they clearly are not looking for business or investment from me. > > I think I was in second grade when I was taught to not read every word individually, but to scan the paragraph looking at the shapes of words. My vision is no longer good enough to be able to do that for these obscured web sites. So rather than read every word, one at a time, I read none of them and visit web sites that aren't designed to torture their viewers. > > That's why I am not interested in reading the *damn* FAQ.And this is why I have you shaded, and rarely read your posts. You have no time to think, no time to read, but plenty of time to dribble your brains out in a post that you expect *others* to read and take seriously.>> For an e-power enthusiast, you're very full of reasons why it won't >> work. Yet you bleat so loudly when people act the same way about Tesla's. > > Analogies are only useful when they are useful analogies. What I say about BEVs has nothing to do with this company. I didn't even know e-power was a thing. > > If you think my points are of no value, then explain that to me.> So maybe someone should stop looking at the engineering minutia and explain the use casePut in more time reading and thinking instead of just writing, and you might have something worth saying. There is *one* route where this system is being trialled - Sydney-Brisbane. It's Australia's most heavily-trucked route - hundreds of trucks a day drive this nine-hour route, so there's no issue with needing to sleep en route, and food is already catered by existing service centres. This one route represents a perfectly adequate reason for some prime movers to be converted, specialised for that route only. There is plenty of roadside real estate where these battery stations can easily be built with multiple bays, and directly on the wide road reservation. We have these rest stops already built every ten or twenty kilometres - most have no more structures than a composting toilet. But if there's power nearby (and there often is) then a charge/exchange station can be built there. The point is that trucks just pull into a side track beside the highway, there's no diversion. > So maybe someone should stop looking at the engineering minutia and explain the use case Maybe you should pull you head out of your arse and read *what has already been written* instead of writing reams more nonsense out of your own fetid imagination? CH
Reply by ●April 15, 20222022-04-15
On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 12:49:52 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:> On Fri, 15 Apr 2022 17:45:33 +0100, Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 12:19:37 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote: > >> On Wed, 13 Apr 2022 20:52:41 +0100, RichD <r_dela...@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> > >> > Today the electric cars are the quickest on the road. > >> > The classic petrol muscle cars are vying for the silver medal. > >> > > >> > Was it obvious to the designers, from day one, > >> > that this would be the case? Is it simply a power/weight calculation? > >> > > >> > I'm congenitally leery of simple explanations - > >> It's only fast while there's enough Lithium and electricity to go around. These are both running very low. > > > > It's going to be terrible when we use up all the electricity and have to do without. I don't know why no one is working on an electricity substitute. Maybe we can use fiber optics and channel light around to supply energy. There's always light, well, at least in the daytime. > We need to start recycling electrons.I always recycle my electrons. I also use only recycled electrons. I support a cleaner sub-atomic world.> As for light, why not a fiber optic cable from the other side of the world?Sound good to me. I use fiber optics from my neighbor's security light. -- Rick C. -+-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging -+-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Reply by ●April 15, 20222022-04-15
On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 6:00:57 PM UTC-4, Clifford Heath wrote:> On 16/4/22 2:25 am, Ricky wrote: > > On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 3:00:53 AM UTC-4, Clifford Heath wrote: > >> On 15/4/22 11:57 am, Ricky wrote: > >>> On Thursday, April 14, 2022 at 7:48:23 PM UTC-4, Clifford Heath wrote: > >>>> On 15/4/22 9:19 am, Ricky wrote: > >>>>> On Thursday, April 14, 2022 at 6:42:19 PM UTC-4, Clifford Heath wrote: > >>>>>> On 15/4/22 2:28 am, Ed Lee wrote: > >>>>>>> On Thursday, April 14, 2022 at 8:46:32 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote: > >>>>>>>> On Wednesday, April 13, 2022 at 6:44:19 PM UTC-4, lang...@fonz.dk wrote: > >>>>>>>>> torsdag den 14. april 2022 kl. 00.38.16 UTC+2 skrev Ed Lee: > >>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, April 13, 2022 at 2:52:18 PM UTC-7, lang...@fonz.dk wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>> onsdag den 13. april 2022 kl. 23.02.08 UTC+2 skrev Ed Lee: > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, April 13, 2022 at 12:52:45 PM UTC-7, RichD wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Today the electric cars are the quickest on the road. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> The classic petrol muscle cars are vying for the silver medal. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Was it obvious to the designers, from day one, > >>>>>>>>>>>>> that this would be the case? Is it simply a power/weight calculation? > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm congenitally leery of simple explanations - > >>>>>>>>>>>> For one thing, it's easier to install and control multiple motors. For maximum performance, you can put one (or more) motor per wheel, which is hard to do with ICE. > >>>>>>>>>>> And electric motors can usually handle quite a lot of extra power short term > >>>>>>>>>> I am thinking in terms of trucking. Perhaps 18 motors for 18 wheelers. Smaller distributed motors might work better for heavy cargo. > >>>>>>>>> trucks are not fast, and most of the cargo is going to be batteries ... > >>>>>>>> More FUD. Usually you post real information. What bee is up your bonnet about BEV trucks? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Biggest problem is to maintain the current truck/driver model, where they are driving 8 to 10 hours of the same truck. In that case, we might need upward of 10,000 pounds of batteries. However, there are always shorter hauls where they can decouple the drivers with trucks/trailers, or go with hybrid diesel/EV. > >>>>>> Read the link I sent. Standard prime movers are being retrofitted (in > >>>>>> under a week!) with electric drive motors and quick-swap batteries. The > >>>>>> trucks aren't limited by the geometry or aesthetics of a passenger car, > >>>>>> so standardised interchangable batteries are easily achievable. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> The batteries are rented, so the owner just pays for the > >>>>>> power+depreciation. Battery exchange/charging stations are being > >>>>>> installed every few 100km along major highways. > >>>>> > >>>>> I'm interested, but not enough to read through the fluff. Can you provide the pertinent facts? Are they talking about rechargeable batteries or primary cells, like aluminum-air? > >>>>> > >>>> Rechargable. Currently Lithium, but the module form factor is designed > >>>> to adapt to likely new chemistries. The important point is the drive > >>>> motor and battery fits into the existing motor cavity and fuel tank > >>>> locations, so there is no structural modification required. > >>>> > >>>> The conversion cost is equivalent to rebuilding or replacing the diesel, > >>>> and the operating cost per kilometre a little over half, and service > >>>> costs also significantly reduced. > >>>> > >>>> <https://www.januselectric.com.au/#:~:text=Interchangeable%20Parts> > >>> > >>> I suppose a battery swap might be more useful for a truck than for cars. But there are issues with scheduling. When a truck has a delivery, that delivery has a schedule. You arrive by the time of your dock appointment or you lose it. I would expect battery swaps to be the same way. So an appointment is made in advance and what do we do to make sure we arrive in time for appointments? We arrive early. The whole point of the battery swap is to reduce wasted time charging. So how does it help to have to arrive 15 to 30 minutes early to make sure of meeting the appointment, vs. simply spending 45 minutes to charge? > >>> > >>> It's hard to imagine a battery swap for trucks that is so rapid that no appointment is needed. But maybe that's just the limit of my imagination. > >> It's not that hard to read the damn FAQs, is it? > > > > This is one of those web sites I find very hard to read because instead of making the site legible, they chose to use stylish, like grey fonts with thin strokes. Sorry, they clearly are not looking for business or investment from me. > > > > I think I was in second grade when I was taught to not read every word individually, but to scan the paragraph looking at the shapes of words. My vision is no longer good enough to be able to do that for these obscured web sites. So rather than read every word, one at a time, I read none of them and visit web sites that aren't designed to torture their viewers. > > > > That's why I am not interested in reading the *damn* FAQ. > And this is why I have you shaded, and rarely read your posts.I like the fact that my vision is not perfect is the reason why you don't read my posts. Interesting. So why do you keep participating in this conversation?> You have no time to think, no time to read, but plenty of time to > dribble your brains out in a post that you expect *others* to read and > take seriously.I have tons of time. I don't have the patience to deal with crap web sites or marketing drivel.> >> For an e-power enthusiast, you're very full of reasons why it won't > >> work. Yet you bleat so loudly when people act the same way about Tesla's. > > > > Analogies are only useful when they are useful analogies. What I say about BEVs has nothing to do with this company. I didn't even know e-power was a thing. > > > > If you think my points are of no value, then explain that to me. > > So maybe someone should stop looking at the engineering minutia and explain the use case > Put in more time reading and thinking instead of just writing, and you > might have something worth saying.Meanwhile, you choose to attack me personally rather than being involved in a discussion of the facts. I think we see where the shortcomings of thinking lie.> There is *one* route where this system is being trialled - > Sydney-Brisbane. It's Australia's most heavily-trucked route - hundreds > of trucks a day drive this nine-hour route, so there's no issue with > needing to sleep en route, and food is already catered by existing > service centres. This one route represents a perfectly adequate reason > for some prime movers to be converted, specialised for that route only. > > There is plenty of roadside real estate where these battery stations can > easily be built with multiple bays, and directly on the wide road > reservation. We have these rest stops already built every ten or twenty > kilometres - most have no more structures than a composting toilet. But > if there's power nearby (and there often is) then a charge/exchange > station can be built there. The point is that trucks just pull into a > side track beside the highway, there's no diversion.Of course there is some sort of diversion, something that wastes time to get the truck into the bay, make the financial arraignments. Get someone's attention to do the change. Or is it fully automatic like a vending machine? But why you don't address the fact that this is solving a problem that doesn't exist? As I've already shown, a single stop to charge can be concurrent with the mandatory rest period (in the US anyway, not sure what laws are like down under). Someone commented that in the EU there are more/longer rest stops required. So there is already time for charging and no need for swapping batteries. Charging can be accommodated at existing truck stops with the addition of the chargers. It won't require extra land or zoning issues. It's an easy adaptation and can even be blended with the parking spots every truck stop provides. I don't know how large the battery swap buildings would be, but there has to be space for the inventory as well as means to charge them.> > So maybe someone should stop looking at the engineering minutia and > explain the use case > Maybe you should pull you head out of your arse and read *what has > already been written* instead of writing reams more nonsense out of your > own fetid imagination?I'm having a conversation *here*. You've posted a link to a web site I've already explained I'm not going to struggle to read. If you have something useful to say, please say it. But stop being a horses ass about the simple fact that you are in a conversation you don't like. That has got to be the epitome of idiocy, to be in a conversation you hate, and rail about it constantly, rather than just shutting the fuck up! -- Rick C. -+-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging -+-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Reply by ●April 16, 20222022-04-16
On 16/4/22 9:17 am, Ricky wrote:> On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 6:00:57 PM UTC-4, Clifford Heath wrote: >>> That's why I am not interested in reading the *damn* FAQ. >> And this is why I have you shaded, and rarely read your posts. > > I like the fact that my vision is not perfect is the reason why you don't read my posts.You seem perfectly able to read. If you have vision defects, enable the accessibility features of your browser so you don't get low-contrast text.> So why do you keep participating in this conversation?Because people who matter to me seemed inexplicably to be paying attention to you. I have no idea why, because you've still said nothing to deserve it. If you want respect, you need to show some respect first. When you write, you do it in the expectation that we will read. You expect us to spend the time to read your dribble, yet you are too lazy to do any reading yourself, so as to have something useful to say. That is the epitome of disrespect, and it characterises almost *all* of your posts in this forum. I skip them, because they're almost always content-free.>> You have no time to think, no time to read, but plenty of time to >> dribble your brains out in a post that you expect *others* to read and >> take seriously > Meanwhile, you choose to attack me personally rather than being involved in a discussion of the facts.Facts are good. I like facts. Unfortunately you choose not to seek or offer any.> But why you don't address the fact that this is solving a problem that doesn't exist?Why do you care? It should be obvious that the truck owners, and the system's other investors, have done their due diligence and found that it is in fact a very real solution to a very real problem. This can significantly reduce the cost of transport on Australia's heaviest route, while providing a positive ROI for everyone involved, from the first year. And you think that's not solving any problem, because allow no facts to penetrate your thick skull?> So there is already time for charging and no need for swapping batteries.This method reduces the barrier for entry presented by the high cost of the batteries. The truck owners get their ROI more quickly than the system's investors, who own the batteries. The conversion itself costs no more than an conventional engine swap/rebuild.>> Maybe you should pull you head out of your arse and read *what has >> already been written* instead of writing reams more nonsense out of your >> own fetid imagination? > > I'm having a conversation *here*.No you're not. In a conversation, people pay attention to the other side, and consider their response. You just dribble out whatever nonsense gets triggered by your false understanding of things. I keep hoping against hope that one day you will reflect on what I've said (same on several occasions before, I might add), and will decide you no longer want to be such an incorrigible bore. Not to say boor. CH
