On Sat, 21 Aug 2021 15:22:30 -0700 (PDT), "John Miles, KE5FX" <jmiles@gmail.com> wrote:>On Saturday, August 21, 2021 at 1:04:09 PM UTC-7, whit3rd wrote: >> Without particles, the charge might 'track' in any pipe materials it contacts rather >> than going with the flow. > >True, the petroleum people were apparently finding that corona from the >charged gas or liquid was causing pinhole leaks in the pipe. But will that >happen at timescales shorter than the service life of a rubber belt in a VdG? >Seems unlikely. > >> The alternative would be field-emission points in the liquid flow; >> that'd charge well, but not discharge (back to photoconductive assist >> for the charge removal). > >Imparting and removing the charge should be simple enough -- I'd just >envision some steel wool stuffed in the tubing at both ends, where the >charge/discharge combs would normally be. As the potential builds, the >back pressure seen by the circulation pump would rise, just like the motor >torque in a conventional static machine.Some filler, plastic beads or something, would let you make a pelletron.
Fun with accelerators
Started by ●August 16, 2021
Reply by ●August 23, 20212021-08-23
Reply by ●August 23, 20212021-08-23
On Monday, August 23, 2021 at 12:03:59 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:> Some filler, plastic beads or something, would let you make a > pelletron.Thinking about it, I'm not optimistic about using discrete particles to move the charge up the column. In a belt-driven machine, the motor torque increases noticeably as the top sphere charges up. Once a few electrons build up in the sphere, the ones coming up the belt get repelled. (Or vice-versa, I don't remember the polarity offhand.) So any particles in a liquid or gas stream are going to need a lot of pressure behind them, as Bill pointed out. Otherwise they will clog up the works, forcing the medium to flow around them. This probably remains true even as the size of the charged particles approaches that of the gas or liquid ions themselves. -- john, KE5FX
Reply by ●August 23, 20212021-08-23
On Mon, 23 Aug 2021 16:02:56 -0700 (PDT), "John Miles, KE5FX" <jmiles@gmail.com> wrote:>On Monday, August 23, 2021 at 12:03:59 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote: >> Some filler, plastic beads or something, would let you make a >> pelletron. > >Thinking about it, I'm not optimistic about using discrete particles to >move the charge up the column. In a belt-driven machine, the motor >torque increases noticeably as the top sphere charges up. Once a few >electrons build up in the sphere, the ones coming up the belt get repelled. >(Or vice-versa, I don't remember the polarity offhand.) > >So any particles in a liquid or gas stream are going to need a lot of >pressure behind them, as Bill pointed out. Otherwise they will clog up >the works, forcing the medium to flow around them. This probably >remains true even as the size of the charged particles approaches >that of the gas or liquid ions themselves. > >-- john, KE5FXJust guessing, I don't think it would be a big deal. It takes energy to charge the machine either way. Belts and pipes both have mechanical losses. Some sort of impeller pump wouldn't mind some small particles. Some sort of louver structure might do the charge transfer on either end. The other fun machine is a belt or a chain with caps, all in series. They get charged one at a time at the bottom. You can tape a lot of film or doorknob caps in series to a PVC pipe and charge them one at a time too, manually. 20 caps, 25 KV each, 500KV. Maybe make the caps with foil tape on the PVC somehow.
Reply by ●August 23, 20212021-08-23
On Mon, 23 Aug 2021 12:03:48 -0700, John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:>On Sat, 21 Aug 2021 15:22:30 -0700 (PDT), "John Miles, KE5FX" ><jmiles@gmail.com> wrote: > >>On Saturday, August 21, 2021 at 1:04:09 PM UTC-7, whit3rd wrote: >>> Without particles, the charge might 'track' in any pipe materials it contacts rather >>> than going with the flow. >> >>True, the petroleum people were apparently finding that corona from the >>charged gas or liquid was causing pinhole leaks in the pipe. But will that >>happen at timescales shorter than the service life of a rubber belt in a VdG? >>Seems unlikely. >> >>> The alternative would be field-emission points in the liquid flow; >>> that'd charge well, but not discharge (back to photoconductive assist >>> for the charge removal). >> >>Imparting and removing the charge should be simple enough -- I'd just >>envision some steel wool stuffed in the tubing at both ends, where the >>charge/discharge combs would normally be. As the potential builds, the >>back pressure seen by the circulation pump would rise, just like the motor >>torque in a conventional static machine. > >Some filler, plastic beads or something, would let you make a >pelletron.Isn't that a bunch of Spandex-clad jerks on bicycles? -- Best regards, Spehro Pefhany
Reply by ●August 24, 20212021-08-24
On 2021-08-24, Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:> On Mon, 23 Aug 2021 12:03:48 -0700, John Larkin ><jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote: > >>On Sat, 21 Aug 2021 15:22:30 -0700 (PDT), "John Miles, KE5FX" >><jmiles@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>>On Saturday, August 21, 2021 at 1:04:09 PM UTC-7, whit3rd wrote: >>>> Without particles, the charge might 'track' in any pipe materials it contacts rather >>>> than going with the flow. >>> >>>True, the petroleum people were apparently finding that corona from the >>>charged gas or liquid was causing pinhole leaks in the pipe. But will that >>>happen at timescales shorter than the service life of a rubber belt in a VdG? >>>Seems unlikely. >>> >>>> The alternative would be field-emission points in the liquid flow; >>>> that'd charge well, but not discharge (back to photoconductive assist >>>> for the charge removal). >>> >>>Imparting and removing the charge should be simple enough -- I'd just >>>envision some steel wool stuffed in the tubing at both ends, where the >>>charge/discharge combs would normally be. As the potential builds, the >>>back pressure seen by the circulation pump would rise, just like the motor >>>torque in a conventional static machine. >> >>Some filler, plastic beads or something, would let you make a >>pelletron. > > Isn't that a bunch of Spandex-clad jerks on bicycles?LOL! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peloton https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelletron -- Jasen.
Reply by ●August 24, 20212021-08-24
Jasen Betts <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote in news:sg29bm$5aa$1@gonzo.revmaps.no-ip.org:> On 2021-08-24, Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> > wrote: >> On Mon, 23 Aug 2021 12:03:48 -0700, John Larkin >><jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote: >> >>>On Sat, 21 Aug 2021 15:22:30 -0700 (PDT), "John Miles, KE5FX" >>><jmiles@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>>On Saturday, August 21, 2021 at 1:04:09 PM UTC-7, whit3rd wrote: >>>>> Without particles, the charge might 'track' in any pipe >>>>> materials it contacts rather than going with the flow. >>>> >>>>True, the petroleum people were apparently finding that corona >>>>from the charged gas or liquid was causing pinhole leaks in the >>>>pipe. But will that happen at timescales shorter than the >>>>service life of a rubber belt in a VdG? Seems unlikely. >>>> >>>>> The alternative would be field-emission points in the liquid >>>>> flow; that'd charge well, but not discharge (back to >>>>> photoconductive assist for the charge removal). >>>> >>>>Imparting and removing the charge should be simple enough -- I'd >>>>just envision some steel wool stuffed in the tubing at both >>>>ends, where the charge/discharge combs would normally be. As >>>>the potential builds, the back pressure seen by the circulation >>>>pump would rise, just like the motor torque in a conventional >>>>static machine. >>> >>>Some filler, plastic beads or something, would let you make a >>>pelletron. >> >> Isn't that a bunch of Spandex-clad jerks on bicycles? > > LOL! > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peloton > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelletron >Damn that is funny. Every now and then one of these dweeb injuneers says something that actually is funny.
Reply by ●August 24, 20212021-08-24
On Sat, 21 Aug 2021 11:52:17 +0100, Piglet wrote:> On 19/08/2021 16:30, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote: >> DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote in news:sfcrvt$1n00$1 >> @gioia.aioe.org: >> >>> These guys get to play with stored energy in a different way than we >>> did back when one would have a class mate toss you a charged up >>> capacitor for shits and giggles. >>> >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlzIUKyA1eQ >>> >>> >> I cannot believe that no one here shows any interest for this stuff. >> >> I especially like the remnant enrgy still sparking along inside for >> a >> while. >> > Thanks Decadent, that was interesting. > > pigletHmmm,,,the old CRT colour TVs were pretty good particle accelerators. How to get that shadow mask out of there?
Reply by ●August 24, 20212021-08-24
On a sunny day (Tue, 24 Aug 2021 15:23:16 -0000 (UTC)) it happened Wond <lost@the.ether.net> wrote in <sg32t3$hb7$1@dont-email.me>:>On Sat, 21 Aug 2021 11:52:17 +0100, Piglet wrote: > >> On 19/08/2021 16:30, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote: >>> DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote in news:sfcrvt$1n00$1 >>> @gioia.aioe.org: >>> >>>> These guys get to play with stored energy in a different way than we >>>> did back when one would have a class mate toss you a charged up >>>> capacitor for shits and giggles. >>>> >>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlzIUKyA1eQ >>>> >>>> >>> I cannot believe that no one here shows any interest for this stuff. >>> >>> I especially like the remnant enrgy still sparking along inside for >>> a >>> while. >>> >> Thanks Decadent, that was interesting. >> >> piglet > > Hmmm,,,the old CRT colour TVs were pretty good particle accelerators. >How to get that shadow mask out of there?Get a BW one?
Reply by ●August 24, 20212021-08-24
Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote in news:sg36f4$kcl$1@dont-email.me:> On a sunny day (Tue, 24 Aug 2021 15:23:16 -0000 (UTC)) it happened > Wond <lost@the.ether.net> wrote in <sg32t3$hb7$1@dont-email.me>: > >>On Sat, 21 Aug 2021 11:52:17 +0100, Piglet wrote: >> >>> On 19/08/2021 16:30, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org >>> wrote: >>>> DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote in >>>> news:sfcrvt$1n00$1 @gioia.aioe.org: >>>> >>>>> These guys get to play with stored energy in a different way >>>>> than we did back when one would have a class mate toss you a >>>>> charged up capacitor for shits and giggles. >>>>> >>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlzIUKyA1eQ >>>>> >>>>> >>>> I cannot believe that no one here shows any interest for >>>> this stuff. >>>> >>>> I especially like the remnant enrgy still sparking along >>>> inside for a >>>> while. >>>> >>> Thanks Decadent, that was interesting. >>> >>> piglet >> >> Hmmm,,,the old CRT colour TVs were pretty good particle >> accelerators. >>How to get that shadow mask out of there? > > Get a BW one? >Microwave oven transformer and an HV rectifier?
Reply by ●August 25, 20212021-08-25
On a sunny day (Tue, 24 Aug 2021 22:50:02 -0000 (UTC)) it happened DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote in <sg3t2q$1jcn$3@gioia.aioe.org>:>Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote in >news:sg36f4$kcl$1@dont-email.me: > >> On a sunny day (Tue, 24 Aug 2021 15:23:16 -0000 (UTC)) it happened >> Wond <lost@the.ether.net> wrote in <sg32t3$hb7$1@dont-email.me>: >> >>>On Sat, 21 Aug 2021 11:52:17 +0100, Piglet wrote: >>> >>>> On 19/08/2021 16:30, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org >>>> wrote: >>>>> DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote in >>>>> news:sfcrvt$1n00$1 @gioia.aioe.org: >>>>> >>>>>> These guys get to play with stored energy in a different way >>>>>> than we did back when one would have a class mate toss you a >>>>>> charged up capacitor for shits and giggles. >>>>>> >>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlzIUKyA1eQ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> I cannot believe that no one here shows any interest for >>>>> this stuff. >>>>> >>>>> I especially like the remnant enrgy still sparking along >>>>> inside for a >>>>> while. >>>>> >>>> Thanks Decadent, that was interesting. >>>> >>>> piglet >>> >>> Hmmm,,,the old CRT colour TVs were pretty good particle >>> accelerators. >>>How to get that shadow mask out of there? >> >> Get a BW one? >> > >Microwave oven transformer and an HV rectifier?Would work, but I got a '300kV' ?? for a few $ from ebay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/153457447746?nma=true&si=lfYNtBcmBE4wrnHDC3jWd5Hy2N0%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557 It seems more like 30kV to me, but OK, for the money :-)
