On 25/09/2020 07:49, rhor...@gmail.com wrote:> > No, those are all LED drivers. There are a number of inexpensive > fade-up solutions for low voltage DC LED strips. I need a solution > for 120VAC bulbs.One slightly expensive solution is to swap the existing bulbs for smart ones and control them with an app. Then you can program the on-off time constants if you choose the right system. Otherwise you basically want a soft start LED compatible trailing edge dimmer that has a time constant of 5s before it allows full mains cycles through. Your problem may well be that individual lamps do not present *enough* load to any of the commercial dimmers to work reliably. A friend has burnt out several 240v trailing edge LED dimmers in a configuration that ought to work if the manufacturers were honest. The dimmer manufacturers have agreed to replace the failing duds free of charge which I take to be an admission of guilt. -- Regards, Martin Brown
Slow fade-in circuit
Started by ●September 23, 2020
Reply by ●September 25, 20202020-09-25
Reply by ●September 25, 20202020-09-25
On 9/25/2020 1:49 AM, rhor...@gmail.com wrote:> On Thursday, September 24, 2020 at 7:24:18 AM UTC-5, amdx wrote: >> These show some promise, the size seems good, it has the 0 to 10 volt >> control. I have now idea what the impedance of >> >> the 0 to 10 volt control is, so not sure how easy it would be to control >> with an RC. Price is right. >> >> Not sure how it reacts to applying AC with the control held at zero. >> >> Might need a big resistor or see if these can be modified for 12V operation >> >>> https://www.1000bulbs.com/category/25-36-volt-hardwire-constant-current-led-drivers/ >> 12v-36v unit >>> https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/209386/HAT-10032.html >> Here's a 12V unit, but it's a little longer, 4.25" x 1.5". >> >>> https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/100980/LEDF-ACA12V12H10M.html >> Mikek >> >> >> -- >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus > No, those are all LED drivers. There are a number of inexpensive fade-up solutions for low voltage DC LED strips. I need a solution for 120VAC bulbs.You said, "I want a simple circuit compatible with 110 volt dimmable LED lights" "but none for 110VAC dimmable LED lights." Now your discussing 120VAC bulbs. What type lights are you driving. Mikek
Reply by ●September 25, 20202020-09-25
On Friday, September 25, 2020 at 3:22:38 AM UTC-4, rhor...@gmail.com wrote:> On Thursday, September 24, 2020 at 10:35:28 AM UTC-5, Ricketty C wrote: > > > A 120 VAC circuit does not require any special clearances. That would be for isolating high voltage and low voltage circuits. This entire design can be treated as a high voltage circuit. > > Correct. A dimmer capable of handling up to 1000 watts can easily fit in a case smaller than a brownie. > > > It has to go in the housing of the fan so it isn't stuck someplace even more crowded like the wall switch box. > > Well, in this case, it is more a matter of needing to go inline between the switch lead and the light lead, both of which are in the bell housing. > > >That said, if a commercial product would do the job, but not fit in a match box (as if that were remotely likely) it would be very reasonable to add a box next to the fan mounting box which could then house a commercial circuit more easily. > > > That's possible, but not bery convenient. It's not the main issue, however. > > > > But it does seem reasonable to simply add a wall dimmer switch in place of the toggle switch. > > > Not when there is no toggle switch. The fan and light are entirely controlled wirelessly by the module in the bell housing. There is no switch box, at all. > > > >But maybe the lights are being brought up automatically by the "theater" system rather than manually switched on. > > > Actually, they are being brought up by a Google Home Mini. > > > >The automatic effect would be nice though. > > > Manual fading would not be practical, really.If you have a remotely controlled switch actuated by a smart device, why can't you just replace the smart switch with a smart dimmer and have the smart controller manage the dimming? Are you saying you can't find those at all? Is the switch an integral part of the fan? -- Rick C. ++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging ++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Reply by ●September 25, 20202020-09-25
On Friday, September 25, 2020 at 12:14:48 PM UTC-4, Ricketty C wrote:> On Friday, September 25, 2020 at 3:22:38 AM UTC-4, rhor...@gmail.com wrote: > > On Thursday, September 24, 2020 at 10:35:28 AM UTC-5, Ricketty C wrote: > > > > > A 120 VAC circuit does not require any special clearances. That would be for isolating high voltage and low voltage circuits. This entire design can be treated as a high voltage circuit. > > > > Correct. A dimmer capable of handling up to 1000 watts can easily fit in a case smaller than a brownie. > > > > > It has to go in the housing of the fan so it isn't stuck someplace even more crowded like the wall switch box. > > > > Well, in this case, it is more a matter of needing to go inline between the switch lead and the light lead, both of which are in the bell housing. > > > > >That said, if a commercial product would do the job, but not fit in a match box (as if that were remotely likely) it would be very reasonable to add a box next to the fan mounting box which could then house a commercial circuit more easily. > > > > > > That's possible, but not bery convenient. It's not the main issue, however. > > > > > > > But it does seem reasonable to simply add a wall dimmer switch in place of the toggle switch. > > > > > > Not when there is no toggle switch. The fan and light are entirely controlled wirelessly by the module in the bell housing. There is no switch box, at all. > > > > > > >But maybe the lights are being brought up automatically by the "theater" system rather than manually switched on. > > > > > > Actually, they are being brought up by a Google Home Mini. > > > > > > >The automatic effect would be nice though. > > > > > > Manual fading would not be practical, really. > > If you have a remotely controlled switch actuated by a smart device, why can't you just replace the smart switch with a smart dimmer and have the smart controller manage the dimming? Are you saying you can't find those at all? Is the switch an integral part of the fan?Here is one rated for 400 watts LED/CFL/Incandescent, 2x2x4 inches. "Works With Alexa, Google, INSTEON" https://www.homedepot.com/p/Insteon-In-LineLinc-400-Watt-Remote-Control-In-Line-Dimmer-Switch-Dual-Band-White-2475DA1/204380654 Here is a larger one at 300 watts, 4x4x2 inches. "Works With Alexa, Google, INSTEON" https://www.homedepot.com/p/Insteon-300-Watt-DIN-Rail-Dimmer-White-2452-222/204380623 If these are too large for your fan housing you can simply install another box next to the one for the fan. -- Rick C. --- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging --- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Reply by ●September 25, 20202020-09-25
On Tue, 22 Sep 2020 21:08:07 -0700 (PDT), "rhor...@gmail.com" <rhorerles@gmail.com> wrote:>I need a simple circuit design for a slow fade-in AC dimmer. In a dark theater, suddenly turning on the lights is a somewhat unpleasant experience. I want a simple circuit compatible with 110 volt dimmable LED lights that will slowly ramp the light output over a period of about 5 seconds or so. I have found a number of simple designs that would work for 12VDC LEDs, but none for 110VAC dimmable LED lights.Given that this is an electronic design forum, we should design something. I could start. Maybe some others can suggest circuits. How much power are the LED lights, in total? A triac dimmer typically won't see a low enough impedance when dimming some LEDs. I have one string of LED spots, with one incandescent left to make the dimmer work.
Reply by ●September 25, 20202020-09-25
On Friday, September 25, 2020 at 1:36:55 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:> On Tue, 22 Sep 2020 21:08:07 -0700 (PDT), "rhor...@gmail.com" > <rhorerles@gmail.com> wrote: > > >I need a simple circuit design for a slow fade-in AC dimmer. In a dark theater, suddenly turning on the lights is a somewhat unpleasant experience. I want a simple circuit compatible with 110 volt dimmable LED lights that will slowly ramp the light output over a period of about 5 seconds or so. I have found a number of simple designs that would work for 12VDC LEDs, but none for 110VAC dimmable LED lights. > > Given that this is an electronic design forum, we should design > something. I could start. Maybe some others can suggest circuits. > > How much power are the LED lights, in total? > > A triac dimmer typically won't see a low enough impedance when dimming > some LEDs. I have one string of LED spots, with one incandescent left > to make the dimmer work.I would design using modules. I already posted a link to two. Done and dusted! Since when is Larkin actually concerned about discussing electronic design other than when he intends to use it as a put down for someone? That is a truly nasty individual. It's no wonder that Larkin is not respected by many here. On a personal level he is the sort of person the world would be better off without. But he has a highly specialized skill in a corner of electronics design that still has some minimal demand, so the world pays him to do that. -- Rick C. --+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging --+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Reply by ●September 25, 20202020-09-25
On 9/25/2020 1:44 PM, Ricketty C wrote:> On Friday, September 25, 2020 at 1:36:55 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote: >> On Tue, 22 Sep 2020 21:08:07 -0700 (PDT), "rhor...@gmail.com" >> <rhorerles@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> I need a simple circuit design for a slow fade-in AC dimmer. In a dark theater, suddenly turning on the lights is a somewhat unpleasant experience. I want a simple circuit compatible with 110 volt dimmable LED lights that will slowly ramp the light output over a period of about 5 seconds or so. I have found a number of simple designs that would work for 12VDC LEDs, but none for 110VAC dimmable LED lights. >> >> Given that this is an electronic design forum, we should design >> something. I could start. Maybe some others can suggest circuits. >> >> How much power are the LED lights, in total? >> >> A triac dimmer typically won't see a low enough impedance when dimming >> some LEDs. I have one string of LED spots, with one incandescent left >> to make the dimmer work. > > I would design using modules. I already posted a link to two. Done and dusted! > > Since when is Larkin actually concerned about discussing electronic design other than when he intends to use it as a put down for someone? That is a truly nasty individual. > > It's no wonder that Larkin is not respected by many here. On a personal level he is the sort of person the world would be better off without. But he has a highly specialized skill in a corner of electronics design that still has some minimal demand, so the world pays him to do that. >How many is many? Have you taken a census?
Reply by ●September 25, 20202020-09-25
On 9/25/2020 1:44 PM, Ricketty C wrote:> On Friday, September 25, 2020 at 1:36:55 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote: >> On Tue, 22 Sep 2020 21:08:07 -0700 (PDT), "rhor...@gmail.com" >> <rhorerles@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> I need a simple circuit design for a slow fade-in AC dimmer. In a dark theater, suddenly turning on the lights is a somewhat unpleasant experience. I want a simple circuit compatible with 110 volt dimmable LED lights that will slowly ramp the light output over a period of about 5 seconds or so. I have found a number of simple designs that would work for 12VDC LEDs, but none for 110VAC dimmable LED lights. >> >> Given that this is an electronic design forum, we should design >> something. I could start. Maybe some others can suggest circuits. >> >> How much power are the LED lights, in total? >> >> A triac dimmer typically won't see a low enough impedance when dimming >> some LEDs. I have one string of LED spots, with one incandescent left >> to make the dimmer work. > > I would design using modules. I already posted a link to two. Done and dusted! > > Since when is Larkin actually concerned about discussing electronic design other than when he intends to use it as a put down for someone? That is a truly nasty individual. > > It's no wonder that Larkin is not respected by many here. On a personal level he is the sort of person the world would be better off without. But he has a highly specialized skill in a corner of electronics design that still has some minimal demand, so the world pays him to do that. >You are a good contributor to the group, Ricketty, except when you're not. There are not that many people here that dislike Larkin. He, too, is a good contributor. He does not post the kind of diatribe as you have done. You do much better at describing projects than you do at this kind of attack. Please take my post as constructive criticism.
Reply by ●September 25, 20202020-09-25
On Friday, September 25, 2020 at 3:42:21 AM UTC-5, piglet wrote:> On 23/09/2020 5:08 am, rhor...@gmail.com wrote: > > I need a simple circuit design for a slow fade-in AC dimmer. In a dark theater, suddenly turning on the lights is a somewhat unpleasant experience. I want a simple circuit compatible with 110 volt dimmable LED lights that will slowly ramp the light output over a period of about 5 seconds or so. I have found a number of simple designs that would work for 12VDC LEDs, but none for 110VAC dimmable LED lights. > > > If a conventional triac based domestic dimmer will drive your lights > then you could try adapting it a bit like this: > > <https://www.dropbox.com/s/8ll9n5wjnzl21wh/dimmer_fade_up.pdf?dl=0>I thought of something like this, but the power dissipation seemed high. Thinking about it a bit more, maybe not so much.> It works like this: The diac/triac firing phase angle is > determined by the time it takes for the voltage across CT to reach the > diac trigger voltage, typically 20-30V. By robbing RT current from > charging CT the add-on circuit can extend the firing delay without > having to change RT. Finally because the voltage across CT is limited to > 30V or so then the add-on parts can all be jelly bean low power devices.You're right about that. I wasn't thinking straight. The highest power dissipation is across RT, and that will only be for the few seconds when the light is at minimum power. If performance using a leading edge dimmer is good enough, this may be a viable solution.> In more detail: D1-D4 can be 1N4148/914 etc.I would just use an SMD Full Wave Bridge. I have lots of them.> Q1-Q4 can be 2N3904/BC847I can get FMMT38C darlington transistors for under $0.10 to take care of Q3-Q4. That's actually a tiny bit less expensive than 3904s, but more importantly it is a single SOT23 package.> Be interested to know if it actually works!Let me take a look...
Reply by ●September 25, 20202020-09-25
On 2020-09-25 16:47, John S wrote:> On 9/25/2020 1:44 PM, Ricketty C wrote: >> On Friday, September 25, 2020 at 1:36:55 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote: >>> On Tue, 22 Sep 2020 21:08:07 -0700 (PDT), "rhor...@gmail.com" >>> <rhorerles@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> I need a simple circuit design for a slow fade-in AC dimmer. In a >>>> dark theater, suddenly turning on the lights is a somewhat >>>> unpleasant experience. I want a simple circuit compatible with 110 >>>> volt dimmable LED lights that will slowly ramp the light output over >>>> a period of about 5 seconds or so. I have found a number of simple >>>> designs that would work for 12VDC LEDs, but none for 110VAC dimmable >>>> LED lights. >>> >>> Given that this is an electronic design forum, we should design >>> something. I could start. Maybe some others can suggest circuits. >>> >>> How much power are the LED lights, in total? >>> >>> A triac dimmer typically won't see a low enough impedance when dimming >>> some LEDs. I have one string of LED spots, with one incandescent left >>> to make the dimmer work. >> >> I would design using modules. I already posted a link to two. Done >> and dusted! >> >> Since when is Larkin actually concerned about discussing electronic >> design other than when he intends to use it as a put down for >> someone? That is a truly nasty individual. >> >> It's no wonder that Larkin is not respected by many here. On a >> personal level he is the sort of person the world would be better off >> without. But he has a highly specialized skill in a corner of >> electronics design that still has some minimal demand, so the world >> pays him to do that. >> > > How many is many? Have you taken a census?"Not many" translates as "None of the cool kids _I_ hang out with", as used in middle school playgrounds the world over. ;) Cheers Phil Hobbs -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 http://electrooptical.net http://hobbs-eo.com
