On Fri, 29 May 2020 16:33:12 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:>On 5/29/2020 1:48 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >> On Fri, 29 May 2020 13:36:09 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote: >> >>> On 5/29/2020 1:30 PM, bitrex wrote: >>>> On 5/29/2020 11:59 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >>>>> On Fri, 29 May 2020 11:38:20 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On 5/29/2020 11:28 AM, bitrex wrote: >>>>>>> On 5/29/2020 1:09 AM, Bill Sloman wrote: >>>>>>>> On Friday, May 29, 2020 at 11:13:06 AM UTC+10, bitrex wrote: >>>>>>>>> On 5/28/2020 8:48 PM, Ricketty C wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 8:41:22 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> On 5/28/2020 12:24 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 28 May 2020 18:09:06 +0200, olaf <olaf@criseis.ruhr.de> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Ricketty C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bleech!� Every time I try to use LTspice it's like Lucy snagging >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> football away from Charlie Brown.� And just like Charlie, I keep >>>>>>>>>>>>>> coming back. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course, that is true. But LT-Spice is a tool written by an >>>>>>>>>>>>> enginer >>>>>>>>>>>>> for other enginers and we all have a personality like Lucy. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> There's a video interview with Mike, the inventor of LT Spice, >>>>>>>>>>>> where >>>>>>>>>>>> he says that the real value of a circuit simulator is to >>>>>>>>>>>> "cultivate >>>>>>>>>>>> your intuition." >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6TrbD7-IwU >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I think he is a bit wrong about some other points, but the >>>>>>>>>>>> instinct >>>>>>>>>>>> training thing is very real. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I have got people started using LT Spice in literally 5 minutes. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> If it was written by salesdruids it would look nice and cool >>>>>>>>>>>>> without >>>>>>>>>>>>> any good functionality. I this case you are the football on the >>>>>>>>>>>>> ground. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> It is an interesting question how it will change now with >>>>>>>>>>>>> Analog. Perhaps it is a good idea to save a working copy for >>>>>>>>>>>>> future >>>>>>>>>>>>> use.... >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I hope Analog doesn't wreck it. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Aside from a few niggles LTSpice is pretty much fine the way it >>>>>>>>>>> is. It >>>>>>>>>>> offer a lot of flexibility and it's fast. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Importing 3rd party models is a bit clunky but not egregiously >>>>>>>>>>> so. If >>>>>>>>>>> you have a PSpice model for anything you more or less have an >>>>>>>>>>> LTSpice >>>>>>>>>>> model. for a free product that's mostly aimed at Analog/LT's >>>>>>>>>>> products >>>>>>>>>>> that's pretty nice. They could have been dicks and locked out >>>>>>>>>>> everything >>>>>>>>>>> that's not a discrete or their own products thankfully they didn't >>>>>>>>>>> do that. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I'll try not to give them any ideas. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If they did that they would loose all popularity.� Who cares about >>>>>>>>>> yet another proprietary simulation tool?� I could see ADI saying >>>>>>>>>> they don't want to support it anymore.. no, not even that.� The fact >>>>>>>>>> that you can count on their models working with their simulator is >>>>>>>>>> an incentive to use their parts.� Even if it is a small incentive, >>>>>>>>>> it likely pays dividends since the cost of maintaining it is not >>>>>>>>>> large.� They also need something for internal use. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Yeah you'd think that but my impression of ADI is they are a top-down >>>>>>>>> stogy old-fashioned New England-type of technology company. >>>>>>>>> They're like >>>>>>>>> the IBM of chip-makers. They have their solids in the >>>>>>>>> aerospace/defense/medical sector. If that's not you and you're not >>>>>>>>> looking at quantities of a mil they aren't much interested. How >>>>>>>>> much do >>>>>>>>> they care if some simulation tool they inherited is "popular" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Not my impression - at least not back in the late 1980's. Cambridge >>>>>>>> Instruments wasn't a big customer. We made perhaps one to two hundred >>>>>>>> machines a year, but those machines did use quite a few relatively >>>>>>>> expensive Analog Device parts, so we got pretty good attention. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> When Barry Gilbert was being taken around the European customer base, >>>>>>>> we got to talk to him. They did concentrate on expensive high >>>>>>>> performance parts for niche markets, and supporting LTSpice would be >>>>>>>> part of the service that kept those customers on side. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Yeah, the same lead engineers who were designing the chips in 1989 are >>>>>>> still in the same positions running the show in 2020 is what a >>>>>>> number of >>>>>>> the GlassDoor reviews for the US-based operation say. No place for new >>>>>>> talent >>>>>> >>>>>> It's a reason I can think of why they're still in the Rte 128 >>>>>> "technology corridor" after the hardware tech and computer sector died >>>>>> here ages ago and didn't pack up for Silicon Valley. All the required >>>>>> people to do the main US-based design work live in the area and have had >>>>>> a house down the street since 1975. There's not a large pool of talent >>>>>> to draw from for senior engineers in this area and you don't need to. >>>>> >>>>> Maybe you can buy a house when you grow up. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> I can afford a house I just don't want one in Massachusetts! >>>> >>>> I think it's somewhat odd that their world HQ is still in the same place >>>> when so many of the other chip-makers and hardware companies that were >>>> in the area left ages ago and was speculating on the reason. >>>> >>>> Their mortgage is paid off and they don't need to attract much younger >>>> talent to that location it's not a particularly young-talent-attractive >>>> area. It's next to a Chevrolet dealership (which is larger than the HQ) >>>> and the closest "fine dining" is a burger king. It sure ain't Cupertino >>> >>> Granted a number of those other companies are long out of business now, >>> humility can sometimes imply longevity. I'm not sure humility is the >>> reason though. >> >> ADI makes some good stuff, like analog multipliers and DDS chips and >> synthesizers. Some good DACs too. But they are sloppy and sometimes >> bizarre about the digital parts of mixed-signal stuff. > >I tried some of their 2 amp isolated gate drivers and ended up being >disappointed with them. Moisture-sensitive parts and aren't very rugged >and not that fast. > >These Silicon Labs parts seem better in just about all respects except >for secondary supply voltage rating and creepage/isolation voltage, for >half the price: > ><https://www.silabs.com/documents/public/data-sheets/Si827x.pdf> > >Their low-voltage CMOS op amps aren't much to write home about either TI >has better stuff for less money like the the OPA4322 a 1.8V 20MHz RRIO >quad for 2 bucks in 100s, AD doesn't have anything like that AFAIK > >>> >>> Raytheon is still around but its presence is much reduced since the >>> 1980s; they used to have a huge lab with radar domes and antenna of >>> unclear purpose all over the roof down the street then, it's now a Stop >>> & Shop >> >> Raytheon is a giant defense contractor, now merged with >> UTC/Pratt/Collins. >> >> >>Our default choice for analog stuff is TI. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc Science teaches us to doubt. Claude Bernard
LTspice is a difficult tool to make useful
Started by ●May 28, 2020
Reply by ●May 29, 20202020-05-29
Reply by ●May 29, 20202020-05-29
"Helmut Sennewald" wrote in message news:hjaiojFe60iU1@mid.individual.net...>>Mike Engelhardt (author of LTspice) created a special model OTA with good >behavior due to convergence. It has been used in many opamp models of >LTspice. This OTA-model is not available in normal SPICE as an intrinic >model. That's why models from other companies often use IF() and TABLE() >models.Yeah...its a disaster waiting to happen. Many model makers just don't think about the convergence properties of the models. Spice has a pretty good function capability that lets one write continuous models to do pretty much everything. Using an if() else() construct in an analog model is bizarre to say the least. -- Kevin Aylward http://www.anasoft.co.uk - SuperSpice http://www.kevinaylward.co.uk/ee/index.html
Reply by ●May 29, 20202020-05-29
On 5/28/2020 11:30 PM, Ricketty C wrote:> On Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 9:32:28 PM UTC-4, John Doe wrote: >> olaf wrote: >> >>> Ricketty C wrote: >>> >>>> Bleech! Every time I try to use LTspice it's like Lucy snagging >>>> the football away from Charlie Brown. And just like Charlie, I >>>> keep coming back. >>> >>> Of course, that is true. But LT-Spice is a tool written by an >>> enginer for other enginers and we all have a personality like >>> Lucy. >>> >>> If it was written by salesdruids it would look nice and cool >>> without any good functionality. I this case you are the football >>> on the ground. >> >> Why didn't Charlie just kick Lucy? >> The next time... "I promise I won't kick you this time, Lucy..." > > Now that wouldn't be Charlie Brown, would it? > > I think you didn't get Charles Schulz. >Right, Charles Schulz and Charlie Brown-author-insertion too much resembled psychologically normal humans for John Doe to understand, possibly why the comic was popular. John Doe would write Charlie Brown like a Bond villain; murder all his enemies, take over Peanuts-ville, collar all the white females and make them his slaves. Y'know, family-friendly stuff.
Reply by ●May 29, 20202020-05-29
On 5/28/2020 12:09 PM, olaf wrote:> Ricketty C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote: > > >Bleech! Every time I try to use LTspice it's like Lucy snagging the > >football away from Charlie Brown. And just like Charlie, I keep > >coming back. > > Of course, that is true. But LT-Spice is a tool written by an enginer > for other enginers and we all have a personality like Lucy."Charlie Brown frequently tries to tell Lucy that her crazy theories are false, and when he finally succeeds, Lucy would make an insensitive remark about the way he looks. Charlie Brown's stomach hurts when Lucy tries to teach her theories to Linus. Charlie Brown often visits Lucy's psychiatric booth for help, but always gets useless advice (such as "Snap out of it." or "The insecurities people have can lead to colds and other illnesses")."> If it was written by salesdruids it would look nice and cool without > any good functionality. I this case you are the football on the ground. > > It is an interesting question how it will change now with > Analog. Perhaps it is a good idea to save a working copy for future > use.... > > Olaf > >
Reply by ●May 30, 20202020-05-30
On Saturday, May 30, 2020 at 3:28:52 AM UTC+10, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:> On Fri, 29 May 2020 18:32:32 +0200, olaf <olaf@criseis.ruhr.de> wrote: > > >jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: > > > > >It's easier and faster to order parts from Digikey or Mouser or > > >Amazon. And they don't want your life story. > > > >You don't have WURTH in the US with there gummi bears and free refill > >for gummi bears and part boxes? > > > >Oh..and they made an interesting video for LT-Spice and EMC: > > > >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-WXTROc3lE > > Wurth is awful. A couple of their guys called on me and persuaded me > to *buy* their horrible book about inductors. I read some and threw it > away.Too many long words and not enough pictures? Most books about inductors are pretty horrible. E C Snelling on "Soft Ferrites" was a total disaster. https://www.amazon.com.au/Soft-Ferrites-Applications-C-Snelling/dp/0592027902/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=E+C+Snelling+soft+ferrites&qid=1590805960&s=books&sr=1-1 He seems to have worked for Mullard, which got taken over by Philips and now seems to be Ferroxcube. Their application notes and data sheets were just as horrible. The information was in there somewhere, but it was remarkably difficult to extract it. Siemens wrote a much better set of application note for their ferrites. That operation got floated off as EPCOS and merged with the Japanese TDK. I first came across the transformer equation there - or perhaps I'd just done enough work on transformer design by then to be able to recognise it as useful. There's a tendency for bad application notes to propagate - Wurth is German so you'd expect them to be more Siemens-influenced - but it may just be that John Larkin is reacting to a book that does a good job of presenting the unpalatable truth - that inductors are particularly non-ideal electronic components - which John Larkin would prefer to ignore, in much the same way he ignores the bad news about the Covid-19 epidemic in the US and concetrates on the occasional random fluctuations that move in the direction he wants. -- Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply by ●May 30, 20202020-05-30
On Saturday, May 30, 2020 at 6:43:20 AM UTC+10, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:> On Fri, 29 May 2020 16:33:12 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote: > > >On 5/29/2020 1:48 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: > >> On Fri, 29 May 2020 13:36:09 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote: > >> > >>> On 5/29/2020 1:30 PM, bitrex wrote: > >>>> On 5/29/2020 11:59 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: > >>>>> On Fri, 29 May 2020 11:38:20 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> On 5/29/2020 11:28 AM, bitrex wrote: > >>>>>>> On 5/29/2020 1:09 AM, Bill Sloman wrote: > >>>>>>>> On Friday, May 29, 2020 at 11:13:06 AM UTC+10, bitrex wrote: > >>>>>>>>> On 5/28/2020 8:48 PM, Ricketty C wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 8:41:22 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>> On 5/28/2020 12:24 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 28 May 2020 18:09:06 +0200, olaf <olaf@criseis.ruhr.de> > >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Ricketty C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bleech! Every time I try to use LTspice it's like Lucy snagging > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> football away from Charlie Brown. And just like Charlie, I keep > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> coming back. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course, that is true. But LT-Spice is a tool written by an > >>>>>>>>>>>>> enginer > >>>>>>>>>>>>> for other enginers and we all have a personality like Lucy. > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> There's a video interview with Mike, the inventor of LT Spice, > >>>>>>>>>>>> where > >>>>>>>>>>>> he says that the real value of a circuit simulator is to > >>>>>>>>>>>> "cultivate > >>>>>>>>>>>> your intuition." > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6TrbD7-IwU > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> I think he is a bit wrong about some other points, but the > >>>>>>>>>>>> instinct > >>>>>>>>>>>> training thing is very real. > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> I have got people started using LT Spice in literally 5 minutes. > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> If it was written by salesdruids it would look nice and cool > >>>>>>>>>>>>> without > >>>>>>>>>>>>> any good functionality. I this case you are the football on the > >>>>>>>>>>>>> ground. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> It is an interesting question how it will change now with > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Analog. Perhaps it is a good idea to save a working copy for > >>>>>>>>>>>>> future > >>>>>>>>>>>>> use.... > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> I hope Analog doesn't wreck it. > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Aside from a few niggles LTSpice is pretty much fine the way it > >>>>>>>>>>> is. It > >>>>>>>>>>> offer a lot of flexibility and it's fast. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Importing 3rd party models is a bit clunky but not egregiously > >>>>>>>>>>> so. If > >>>>>>>>>>> you have a PSpice model for anything you more or less have an > >>>>>>>>>>> LTSpice > >>>>>>>>>>> model. for a free product that's mostly aimed at Analog/LT's > >>>>>>>>>>> products > >>>>>>>>>>> that's pretty nice. They could have been dicks and locked out > >>>>>>>>>>> everything > >>>>>>>>>>> that's not a discrete or their own products thankfully they didn't > >>>>>>>>>>> do that. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> I'll try not to give them any ideas. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> If they did that they would loose all popularity. Who cares about > >>>>>>>>>> yet another proprietary simulation tool? I could see ADI saying > >>>>>>>>>> they don't want to support it anymore.. no, not even that. The fact > >>>>>>>>>> that you can count on their models working with their simulator is > >>>>>>>>>> an incentive to use their parts. Even if it is a small incentive, > >>>>>>>>>> it likely pays dividends since the cost of maintaining it is not > >>>>>>>>>> large. They also need something for internal use. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Yeah you'd think that but my impression of ADI is they are a top-down > >>>>>>>>> stogy old-fashioned New England-type of technology company. > >>>>>>>>> They're like > >>>>>>>>> the IBM of chip-makers. They have their solids in the > >>>>>>>>> aerospace/defense/medical sector. If that's not you and you're not > >>>>>>>>> looking at quantities of a mil they aren't much interested. How > >>>>>>>>> much do > >>>>>>>>> they care if some simulation tool they inherited is "popular" > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Not my impression - at least not back in the late 1980's. Cambridge > >>>>>>>> Instruments wasn't a big customer. We made perhaps one to two hundred > >>>>>>>> machines a year, but those machines did use quite a few relatively > >>>>>>>> expensive Analog Device parts, so we got pretty good attention. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> When Barry Gilbert was being taken around the European customer base, > >>>>>>>> we got to talk to him. They did concentrate on expensive high > >>>>>>>> performance parts for niche markets, and supporting LTSpice would be > >>>>>>>> part of the service that kept those customers on side. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Yeah, the same lead engineers who were designing the chips in 1989 are > >>>>>>> still in the same positions running the show in 2020 is what a > >>>>>>> number of > >>>>>>> the GlassDoor reviews for the US-based operation say. No place for new > >>>>>>> talent > >>>>>> > >>>>>> It's a reason I can think of why they're still in the Rte 128 > >>>>>> "technology corridor" after the hardware tech and computer sector died > >>>>>> here ages ago and didn't pack up for Silicon Valley. All the required > >>>>>> people to do the main US-based design work live in the area and have had > >>>>>> a house down the street since 1975. There's not a large pool of talent > >>>>>> to draw from for senior engineers in this area and you don't need to. > >>>>> > >>>>> Maybe you can buy a house when you grow up. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> I can afford a house I just don't want one in Massachusetts! > >>>> > >>>> I think it's somewhat odd that their world HQ is still in the same place > >>>> when so many of the other chip-makers and hardware companies that were > >>>> in the area left ages ago and was speculating on the reason. > >>>> > >>>> Their mortgage is paid off and they don't need to attract much younger > >>>> talent to that location it's not a particularly young-talent-attractive > >>>> area. It's next to a Chevrolet dealership (which is larger than the HQ) > >>>> and the closest "fine dining" is a burger king. It sure ain't Cupertino > >>> > >>> Granted a number of those other companies are long out of business now, > >>> humility can sometimes imply longevity. I'm not sure humility is the > >>> reason though. > >> > >> ADI makes some good stuff, like analog multipliers and DDS chips and > >> synthesizers. Some good DACs too. But they are sloppy and sometimes > >> bizarre about the digital parts of mixed-signal stuff. > > > >I tried some of their 2 amp isolated gate drivers and ended up being > >disappointed with them. Moisture-sensitive parts and aren't very rugged > >and not that fast. > > > >These Silicon Labs parts seem better in just about all respects except > >for secondary supply voltage rating and creepage/isolation voltage, for > >half the price: > > > ><https://www.silabs.com/documents/public/data-sheets/Si827x.pdf> > > > >Their low-voltage CMOS op amps aren't much to write home about either TI > >has better stuff for less money like the the OPA4322 a 1.8V 20MHz RRIO > >quad for 2 bucks in 100s, AD doesn't have anything like that AFAIK > > > >>> > >>> Raytheon is still around but its presence is much reduced since the > >>> 1980s; they used to have a huge lab with radar domes and antenna of > >>> unclear purpose all over the roof down the street then, it's now a Stop > >>> & Shop > >> > >> Raytheon is a giant defense contractor, now merged with > >> UTC/Pratt/Collins. > > Our default choice for analog stuff is TI.I got put off them when I had to compared data sheets for second-source suppliers back around 1975 - The TI data sheets were consistently sloppier than the National Semiconductor , Motorola and RCA equivalents. And I'd previously ordered a TI part, and done the printed circuit layout to accommodate it, only to find out that there weren't any parts to buy. It isn't clear whether they ever even tried to make the part or had tried and couldn't get a decent yield. The data sheet had offered exactly what I'd wanted, but the part wasn't there. It's a long time ago, and I've run into bits of TI that were perfectly respectable since then, but they are aimed at the broad base of the market, rather than the higher-performance peaks which can afford to pay more for better-performing, more tightly specified parts. When you are designing to a tight specification (even if it is one you wrote) these things can matter. -- Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply by ●May 30, 20202020-05-30
On 5/29/2020 11:54 PM, Bill Sloman wrote:> On Saturday, May 30, 2020 at 3:28:52 AM UTC+10, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >> On Fri, 29 May 2020 18:32:32 +0200, olaf <olaf@criseis.ruhr.de> wrote: >> >>> jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >>> >>>> It's easier and faster to order parts from Digikey or Mouser or >>>> Amazon. And they don't want your life story. >>> >>> You don't have WURTH in the US with there gummi bears and free refill >>> for gummi bears and part boxes? >>> >>> Oh..and they made an interesting video for LT-Spice and EMC: >>> >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-WXTROc3lE >> >> Wurth is awful. A couple of their guys called on me and persuaded me >> to *buy* their horrible book about inductors. I read some and threw it >> away. > > Too many long words and not enough pictures? > > Most books about inductors are pretty horrible. E C Snelling on "Soft Ferrites" was a total disaster. > > https://www.amazon.com.au/Soft-Ferrites-Applications-C-Snelling/dp/0592027902/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=E+C+Snelling+soft+ferrites&qid=1590805960&s=books&sr=1-1 > > He seems to have worked for Mullard, which got taken over by Philips and now seems to be Ferroxcube. Their application notes and data sheets were just as horrible. The information was in there somewhere, but it was remarkably difficult to extract it. > > Siemens wrote a much better set of application note for their ferrites. That operation got floated off as EPCOS and merged with the Japanese TDK. > > I first came across the transformer equation there - or perhaps I'd just done enough work on transformer design by then to be able to recognise it as useful. > > There's a tendency for bad application notes to propagate - Wurth is German so you'd expect them to be more Siemens-influenced - but it may just be that John Larkin is reacting to a book that does a good job of presenting the unpalatable truth - that inductors are particularly non-ideal electronic components - which John Larkin would prefer to ignore, in much the same way he ignores the bad news about the Covid-19 epidemic in the US and concetrates on the occasional random fluctuations that move in the direction he wants. >There's a large Siemens facility down the street from the ADI headquarters. Been a lab there for ages, probably Bayer before it was Siemens. <https://walpole.wickedlocal.com/news/20171020/siemens-walpole-expansion-draws-protests> MY late father used to like to tell me they "tested test-tubes" there when I asked about it when I was a kid.
Reply by ●May 30, 20202020-05-30
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >Kind of strange thing for an inductor company to do. They are not an inductor company. I think they make now almost everything. (switches, many capacitor types, resitor, contacts, DCDC modules) >There are tons of LT Spice manuals and tutorials online. The built-in >HELP isn't very good. There is something you can't understand. Wurth makes many things in local language. .-) There FAEs are a little bit different compared to other company. And I thing there boss/owner is very traditional. Olaf
Reply by ●May 30, 20202020-05-30
On 30/05/20 05:11, Bill Sloman wrote:> And I'd previously ordered a TI part, and done the printed circuit layout to > accommodate it, only to find out that there weren't any parts to buy. It > isn't clear whether they ever even tried to make the part or had tried and > couldn't get a decent yield. The data sheet had offered exactly what I'd > wanted, but the part wasn't there.Now I understand the source of Maxim's business practices :)
Reply by ●May 30, 20202020-05-30
On 5/30/2020 12:11 AM, Bill Sloman wrote:> On Saturday, May 30, 2020 at 6:43:20 AM UTC+10, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >> On Fri, 29 May 2020 16:33:12 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote: >> >>> On 5/29/2020 1:48 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >>>> On Fri, 29 May 2020 13:36:09 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 5/29/2020 1:30 PM, bitrex wrote: >>>>>> On 5/29/2020 11:59 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >>>>>>> On Fri, 29 May 2020 11:38:20 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 5/29/2020 11:28 AM, bitrex wrote: >>>>>>>>> On 5/29/2020 1:09 AM, Bill Sloman wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On Friday, May 29, 2020 at 11:13:06 AM UTC+10, bitrex wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> On 5/28/2020 8:48 PM, Ricketty C wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 8:41:22 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/28/2020 12:24 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 28 May 2020 18:09:06 +0200, olaf <olaf@criseis.ruhr.de> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ricketty C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bleech! Every time I try to use LTspice it's like Lucy snagging >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> football away from Charlie Brown. And just like Charlie, I keep >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> coming back. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course, that is true. But LT-Spice is a tool written by an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enginer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for other enginers and we all have a personality like Lucy. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> There's a video interview with Mike, the inventor of LT Spice, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> where >>>>>>>>>>>>>> he says that the real value of a circuit simulator is to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> "cultivate >>>>>>>>>>>>>> your intuition." >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6TrbD7-IwU >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think he is a bit wrong about some other points, but the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> instinct >>>>>>>>>>>>>> training thing is very real. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have got people started using LT Spice in literally 5 minutes. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If it was written by salesdruids it would look nice and cool >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> without >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any good functionality. I this case you are the football on the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ground. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is an interesting question how it will change now with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Analog. Perhaps it is a good idea to save a working copy for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> future >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> use.... >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I hope Analog doesn't wreck it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Aside from a few niggles LTSpice is pretty much fine the way it >>>>>>>>>>>>> is. It >>>>>>>>>>>>> offer a lot of flexibility and it's fast. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Importing 3rd party models is a bit clunky but not egregiously >>>>>>>>>>>>> so. If >>>>>>>>>>>>> you have a PSpice model for anything you more or less have an >>>>>>>>>>>>> LTSpice >>>>>>>>>>>>> model. for a free product that's mostly aimed at Analog/LT's >>>>>>>>>>>>> products >>>>>>>>>>>>> that's pretty nice. They could have been dicks and locked out >>>>>>>>>>>>> everything >>>>>>>>>>>>> that's not a discrete or their own products thankfully they didn't >>>>>>>>>>>>> do that. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'll try not to give them any ideas. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> If they did that they would loose all popularity. Who cares about >>>>>>>>>>>> yet another proprietary simulation tool? I could see ADI saying >>>>>>>>>>>> they don't want to support it anymore.. no, not even that. The fact >>>>>>>>>>>> that you can count on their models working with their simulator is >>>>>>>>>>>> an incentive to use their parts. Even if it is a small incentive, >>>>>>>>>>>> it likely pays dividends since the cost of maintaining it is not >>>>>>>>>>>> large. They also need something for internal use. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Yeah you'd think that but my impression of ADI is they are a top-down >>>>>>>>>>> stogy old-fashioned New England-type of technology company. >>>>>>>>>>> They're like >>>>>>>>>>> the IBM of chip-makers. They have their solids in the >>>>>>>>>>> aerospace/defense/medical sector. If that's not you and you're not >>>>>>>>>>> looking at quantities of a mil they aren't much interested. How >>>>>>>>>>> much do >>>>>>>>>>> they care if some simulation tool they inherited is "popular" >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Not my impression - at least not back in the late 1980's. Cambridge >>>>>>>>>> Instruments wasn't a big customer. We made perhaps one to two hundred >>>>>>>>>> machines a year, but those machines did use quite a few relatively >>>>>>>>>> expensive Analog Device parts, so we got pretty good attention. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> When Barry Gilbert was being taken around the European customer base, >>>>>>>>>> we got to talk to him. They did concentrate on expensive high >>>>>>>>>> performance parts for niche markets, and supporting LTSpice would be >>>>>>>>>> part of the service that kept those customers on side. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Yeah, the same lead engineers who were designing the chips in 1989 are >>>>>>>>> still in the same positions running the show in 2020 is what a >>>>>>>>> number of >>>>>>>>> the GlassDoor reviews for the US-based operation say. No place for new >>>>>>>>> talent >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It's a reason I can think of why they're still in the Rte 128 >>>>>>>> "technology corridor" after the hardware tech and computer sector died >>>>>>>> here ages ago and didn't pack up for Silicon Valley. All the required >>>>>>>> people to do the main US-based design work live in the area and have had >>>>>>>> a house down the street since 1975. There's not a large pool of talent >>>>>>>> to draw from for senior engineers in this area and you don't need to. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Maybe you can buy a house when you grow up. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I can afford a house I just don't want one in Massachusetts! >>>>>> >>>>>> I think it's somewhat odd that their world HQ is still in the same place >>>>>> when so many of the other chip-makers and hardware companies that were >>>>>> in the area left ages ago and was speculating on the reason. >>>>>> >>>>>> Their mortgage is paid off and they don't need to attract much younger >>>>>> talent to that location it's not a particularly young-talent-attractive >>>>>> area. It's next to a Chevrolet dealership (which is larger than the HQ) >>>>>> and the closest "fine dining" is a burger king. It sure ain't Cupertino >>>>> >>>>> Granted a number of those other companies are long out of business now, >>>>> humility can sometimes imply longevity. I'm not sure humility is the >>>>> reason though. >>>> >>>> ADI makes some good stuff, like analog multipliers and DDS chips and >>>> synthesizers. Some good DACs too. But they are sloppy and sometimes >>>> bizarre about the digital parts of mixed-signal stuff. >>> >>> I tried some of their 2 amp isolated gate drivers and ended up being >>> disappointed with them. Moisture-sensitive parts and aren't very rugged >>> and not that fast. >>> >>> These Silicon Labs parts seem better in just about all respects except >>> for secondary supply voltage rating and creepage/isolation voltage, for >>> half the price: >>> >>> <https://www.silabs.com/documents/public/data-sheets/Si827x.pdf> >>> >>> Their low-voltage CMOS op amps aren't much to write home about either TI >>> has better stuff for less money like the the OPA4322 a 1.8V 20MHz RRIO >>> quad for 2 bucks in 100s, AD doesn't have anything like that AFAIK >>> >>>>> >>>>> Raytheon is still around but its presence is much reduced since the >>>>> 1980s; they used to have a huge lab with radar domes and antenna of >>>>> unclear purpose all over the roof down the street then, it's now a Stop >>>>> & Shop >>>> >>>> Raytheon is a giant defense contractor, now merged with >>>> UTC/Pratt/Collins. >> >> Our default choice for analog stuff is TI. > > I got put off them when I had to compared data sheets for second-source suppliers back around 1975 - The TI data sheets were consistently sloppier than the National Semiconductor , Motorola and RCA equivalents. > > And I'd previously ordered a TI part, and done the printed circuit layout to accommodate it, only to find out that there weren't any parts to buy. It isn't clear whether they ever even tried to make the part or had tried and couldn't get a decent yield. The data sheet had offered exactly what I'd wanted, but the part wasn't there. > > It's a long time ago, and I've run into bits of TI that were perfectly respectable since then, but they are aimed at the broad base of the market, rather than the higher-performance peaks which can afford to pay more for better-performing, more tightly specified parts. > > When you are designing to a tight specification (even if it is one you wrote) these things can matter. >Here's an artists impression of the Linear Technology acquisition process: <https://youtu.be/tKnWlIRhft8?t=6>
