On Fri, 29 May 2020 15:44:25 +0100, Michael Kellett <mk@mkesc.co.uk> wrote:>On 29/05/2020 12:38, Chris Jones wrote: >snip > >> They had/have ADICE for internal use (this is public knowledge as >> googling will confirm). It is far, far better than the publically >> available version of LTSpice, and I cannot imagine that the former LT >> did not also have something better for internal use, though perhaps this >> was just paid-for Spectre licences. >> >> Now if you could just convince them to make ADICE available to the >> public... > >At his lectures Mike Engelhardt said that LT used LTSpice internally - I >have no reason to doubt him. > >MKHe talks as if it's designed for IC simulation. There's probably a version and models better for that than the public version. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc Science teaches us to doubt. Claude Bernard
LTspice is a difficult tool to make useful
Started by ●May 28, 2020
Reply by ●May 29, 20202020-05-29
Reply by ●May 29, 20202020-05-29
On 5/29/2020 11:38 AM, bitrex wrote:> On 5/29/2020 11:28 AM, bitrex wrote: >> On 5/29/2020 1:09 AM, Bill Sloman wrote: >>> On Friday, May 29, 2020 at 11:13:06 AM UTC+10, bitrex wrote: >>>> On 5/28/2020 8:48 PM, Ricketty C wrote: >>>>> On Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 8:41:22 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote: >>>>>> On 5/28/2020 12:24 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >>>>>>> On Thu, 28 May 2020 18:09:06 +0200, olaf <olaf@criseis.ruhr.de> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Ricketty C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Bleech! Every time I try to use LTspice it's like Lucy >>>>>>>>> snagging the >>>>>>>>> football away from Charlie Brown. And just like Charlie, I keep >>>>>>>>> coming back. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Of course, that is true. But LT-Spice is a tool written by an >>>>>>>> enginer >>>>>>>> for other enginers and we all have a personality like Lucy. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There's a video interview with Mike, the inventor of LT Spice, where >>>>>>> he says that the real value of a circuit simulator is to "cultivate >>>>>>> your intuition." >>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6TrbD7-IwU >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I think he is a bit wrong about some other points, but the instinct >>>>>>> training thing is very real. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I have got people started using LT Spice in literally 5 minutes. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If it was written by salesdruids it would look nice and cool >>>>>>>> without >>>>>>>> any good functionality. I this case you are the football on the >>>>>>>> ground. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It is an interesting question how it will change now with >>>>>>>> Analog. Perhaps it is a good idea to save a working copy for future >>>>>>>> use.... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I hope Analog doesn't wreck it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Aside from a few niggles LTSpice is pretty much fine the way it >>>>>> is. It >>>>>> offer a lot of flexibility and it's fast. >>>>>> >>>>>> Importing 3rd party models is a bit clunky but not egregiously so. If >>>>>> you have a PSpice model for anything you more or less have an LTSpice >>>>>> model. for a free product that's mostly aimed at Analog/LT's products >>>>>> that's pretty nice. They could have been dicks and locked out >>>>>> everything >>>>>> that's not a discrete or their own products thankfully they didn't >>>>>> do that. >>>>>> >>>>>> I'll try not to give them any ideas. >>>>> >>>>> If they did that they would loose all popularity. Who cares about >>>>> yet another proprietary simulation tool? I could see ADI saying >>>>> they don't want to support it anymore.. no, not even that. The >>>>> fact that you can count on their models working with their >>>>> simulator is an incentive to use their parts. Even if it is a >>>>> small incentive, it likely pays dividends since the cost of >>>>> maintaining it is not large. They also need something for internal >>>>> use. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Yeah you'd think that but my impression of ADI is they are a top-down >>>> stogy old-fashioned New England-type of technology company. They're >>>> like >>>> the IBM of chip-makers. They have their solids in the >>>> aerospace/defense/medical sector. If that's not you and you're not >>>> looking at quantities of a mil they aren't much interested. How much do >>>> they care if some simulation tool they inherited is "popular" >>> >>> Not my impression - at least not back in the late 1980's. Cambridge >>> Instruments wasn't a big customer. We made perhaps one to two hundred >>> machines a year, but those machines did use quite a few relatively >>> expensive Analog Device parts, so we got pretty good attention. >>> >>> When Barry Gilbert was being taken around the European customer base, >>> we got to talk to him. They did concentrate on expensive high >>> performance parts for niche markets, and supporting LTSpice would be >>> part of the service that kept those customers on side. >>> >> >> Yeah, the same lead engineers who were designing the chips in 1989 are >> still in the same positions running the show in 2020 is what a number >> of the GlassDoor reviews for the US-based operation say. No place for >> new talent > > It's a reason I can think of why they're still in the Rte 128 > "technology corridor" after the hardware tech and computer sector died > here ages ago and didn't pack up for Silicon Valley. All the required > people to do the main US-based design work live in the area and have had > a house down the street since 1975. There's not a large pool of talent > to draw from for senior engineers in this area and you don't need to.Looks like they just opened a Santa Clara office as of 2 years ago: <https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/01/31/analog-devices-signs-big-santa-clara-lease-will-relocate-930-employees/>
Reply by ●May 29, 20202020-05-29
On Fri, 29 May 2020 11:07:48 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:>On 5/29/2020 1:09 AM, Bill Sloman wrote: >> On Friday, May 29, 2020 at 11:13:06 AM UTC+10, bitrex wrote: >>> On 5/28/2020 8:48 PM, Ricketty C wrote: >>>> On Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 8:41:22 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote: >>>>> On 5/28/2020 12:24 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >>>>>> On Thu, 28 May 2020 18:09:06 +0200, olaf <olaf@criseis.ruhr.de> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Ricketty C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Bleech! Every time I try to use LTspice it's like Lucy snagging the >>>>>>>> football away from Charlie Brown. And just like Charlie, I keep >>>>>>>> coming back. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Of course, that is true. But LT-Spice is a tool written by an enginer >>>>>>> for other enginers and we all have a personality like Lucy. >>>>>> >>>>>> There's a video interview with Mike, the inventor of LT Spice, where >>>>>> he says that the real value of a circuit simulator is to "cultivate >>>>>> your intuition." >>>>>> >>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6TrbD7-IwU >>>>>> >>>>>> I think he is a bit wrong about some other points, but the instinct >>>>>> training thing is very real. >>>>>> >>>>>> I have got people started using LT Spice in literally 5 minutes. >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If it was written by salesdruids it would look nice and cool without >>>>>>> any good functionality. I this case you are the football on the ground. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It is an interesting question how it will change now with >>>>>>> Analog. Perhaps it is a good idea to save a working copy for future >>>>>>> use.... >>>>>> >>>>>> I hope Analog doesn't wreck it. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Aside from a few niggles LTSpice is pretty much fine the way it is. It >>>>> offer a lot of flexibility and it's fast. >>>>> >>>>> Importing 3rd party models is a bit clunky but not egregiously so. If >>>>> you have a PSpice model for anything you more or less have an LTSpice >>>>> model. for a free product that's mostly aimed at Analog/LT's products >>>>> that's pretty nice. They could have been dicks and locked out everything >>>>> that's not a discrete or their own products thankfully they didn't do that. >>>>> >>>>> I'll try not to give them any ideas. >>>> >>>> If they did that they would loose all popularity. Who cares about yet another proprietary simulation tool? I could see ADI saying they don't want to support it anymore.. no, not even that. The fact that you can count on their models working with their simulator is an incentive to use their parts. Even if it is a small incentive, it likely pays dividends since the cost of maintaining it is not large. They also need something for internal use. >>>> >>> >>> Yeah you'd think that but my impression of ADI is they are a top-down >>> stogy old-fashioned New England-type of technology company. They're like >>> the IBM of chip-makers. They have their solids in the >>> aerospace/defense/medical sector. If that's not you and you're not >>> looking at quantities of a mil they aren't much interested. How much do >>> they care if some simulation tool they inherited is "popular" >> >> Not my impression - at least not back in the late 1980's. Cambridge Instruments wasn't a big customer. We made perhaps one to two hundred machines a year, but those machines did use quite a few relatively expensive Analog Device parts, so we got pretty good attention. >> >> When Barry Gilbert was being taken around the European customer base, we got to talk to him. They did concentrate on expensive high performance parts for niche markets, and supporting LTSpice would be part of the service that kept those customers on side. >> > >I ordered several samples from them of some chips a while back, for a $5 >billion company their sample policy is pretty stingy, two of any part >and max four parts per request per month or somesuch unless you're a >somebody. > >They didn't have any stock in the US. and the samples never showed up. >/shrugIt's easier and faster to order parts from Digikey or Mouser or Amazon. And they don't want your life story. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc Science teaches us to doubt. Claude Bernard
Reply by ●May 29, 20202020-05-29
On Fri, 29 May 2020 11:38:20 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:>On 5/29/2020 11:28 AM, bitrex wrote: >> On 5/29/2020 1:09 AM, Bill Sloman wrote: >>> On Friday, May 29, 2020 at 11:13:06 AM UTC+10, bitrex wrote: >>>> On 5/28/2020 8:48 PM, Ricketty C wrote: >>>>> On Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 8:41:22 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote: >>>>>> On 5/28/2020 12:24 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >>>>>>> On Thu, 28 May 2020 18:09:06 +0200, olaf <olaf@criseis.ruhr.de> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Ricketty C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Bleech!� Every time I try to use LTspice it's like Lucy snagging >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> football away from Charlie Brown.� And just like Charlie, I keep >>>>>>>>> coming back. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Of course, that is true. But LT-Spice is a tool written by an >>>>>>>> enginer >>>>>>>> for other enginers and we all have a personality like Lucy. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There's a video interview with Mike, the inventor of LT Spice, where >>>>>>> he says that the real value of a circuit simulator is to "cultivate >>>>>>> your intuition." >>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6TrbD7-IwU >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I think he is a bit wrong about some other points, but the instinct >>>>>>> training thing is very real. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I have got people started using LT Spice in literally 5 minutes. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If it was written by salesdruids it would look nice and cool without >>>>>>>> any good functionality. I this case you are the football on the >>>>>>>> ground. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It is an interesting question how it will change now with >>>>>>>> Analog. Perhaps it is a good idea to save a working copy for future >>>>>>>> use.... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I hope Analog doesn't wreck it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Aside from a few niggles LTSpice is pretty much fine the way it is. It >>>>>> offer a lot of flexibility and it's fast. >>>>>> >>>>>> Importing 3rd party models is a bit clunky but not egregiously so. If >>>>>> you have a PSpice model for anything you more or less have an LTSpice >>>>>> model. for a free product that's mostly aimed at Analog/LT's products >>>>>> that's pretty nice. They could have been dicks and locked out >>>>>> everything >>>>>> that's not a discrete or their own products thankfully they didn't >>>>>> do that. >>>>>> >>>>>> I'll try not to give them any ideas. >>>>> >>>>> If they did that they would loose all popularity.� Who cares about >>>>> yet another proprietary simulation tool?� I could see ADI saying >>>>> they don't want to support it anymore.. no, not even that.� The fact >>>>> that you can count on their models working with their simulator is >>>>> an incentive to use their parts.� Even if it is a small incentive, >>>>> it likely pays dividends since the cost of maintaining it is not >>>>> large.� They also need something for internal use. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Yeah you'd think that but my impression of ADI is they are a top-down >>>> stogy old-fashioned New England-type of technology company. They're like >>>> the IBM of chip-makers. They have their solids in the >>>> aerospace/defense/medical sector. If that's not you and you're not >>>> looking at quantities of a mil they aren't much interested. How much do >>>> they care if some simulation tool they inherited is "popular" >>> >>> Not my impression - at least not back in the late 1980's. Cambridge >>> Instruments wasn't a big customer. We made perhaps one to two hundred >>> machines a year, but those machines did use quite a few relatively >>> expensive Analog Device parts, so we got pretty good attention. >>> >>> When Barry Gilbert was being taken around the European customer base, >>> we got to talk to him. They did concentrate on expensive high >>> performance parts for niche markets, and supporting LTSpice would be >>> part of the service that kept those customers on side. >>> >> >> Yeah, the same lead engineers who were designing the chips in 1989 are >> still in the same positions running the show in 2020 is what a number of >> the GlassDoor reviews for the US-based operation say. No place for new >> talent > >It's a reason I can think of why they're still in the Rte 128 >"technology corridor" after the hardware tech and computer sector died >here ages ago and didn't pack up for Silicon Valley. All the required >people to do the main US-based design work live in the area and have had >a house down the street since 1975. There's not a large pool of talent >to draw from for senior engineers in this area and you don't need to.Maybe you can buy a house when you grow up. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc Science teaches us to doubt. Claude Bernard
Reply by ●May 29, 20202020-05-29
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >It's easier and faster to order parts from Digikey or Mouser or >Amazon. And they don't want your life story. You don't have WURTH in the US with there gummi bears and free refill for gummi bears and part boxes? Oh..and they made an interesting video for LT-Spice and EMC: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-WXTROc3lE Olaf
Reply by ●May 29, 20202020-05-29
On Fri, 29 May 2020 18:32:32 +0200, olaf <olaf@criseis.ruhr.de> wrote:>jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: > > >It's easier and faster to order parts from Digikey or Mouser or > >Amazon. And they don't want your life story. > >You don't have WURTH in the US with there gummi bears and free refill >for gummi bears and part boxes? > >Oh..and they made an interesting video for LT-Spice and EMC: > >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-WXTROc3lE > >Olaf > >Wurth is awful. A couple of their guys called on me and persuaded me to *buy* their horrible book about inductors. I read some and threw it away. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc Science teaches us to doubt. Claude Bernard
Reply by ●May 29, 20202020-05-29
On 5/29/2020 11:59 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:> On Fri, 29 May 2020 11:38:20 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote: > >> On 5/29/2020 11:28 AM, bitrex wrote: >>> On 5/29/2020 1:09 AM, Bill Sloman wrote: >>>> On Friday, May 29, 2020 at 11:13:06 AM UTC+10, bitrex wrote: >>>>> On 5/28/2020 8:48 PM, Ricketty C wrote: >>>>>> On Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 8:41:22 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote: >>>>>>> On 5/28/2020 12:24 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >>>>>>>> On Thu, 28 May 2020 18:09:06 +0200, olaf <olaf@criseis.ruhr.de> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Ricketty C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Bleech! Every time I try to use LTspice it's like Lucy snagging >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> football away from Charlie Brown. And just like Charlie, I keep >>>>>>>>>> coming back. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Of course, that is true. But LT-Spice is a tool written by an >>>>>>>>> enginer >>>>>>>>> for other enginers and we all have a personality like Lucy. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> There's a video interview with Mike, the inventor of LT Spice, where >>>>>>>> he says that the real value of a circuit simulator is to "cultivate >>>>>>>> your intuition." >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6TrbD7-IwU >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I think he is a bit wrong about some other points, but the instinct >>>>>>>> training thing is very real. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I have got people started using LT Spice in literally 5 minutes. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If it was written by salesdruids it would look nice and cool without >>>>>>>>> any good functionality. I this case you are the football on the >>>>>>>>> ground. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> It is an interesting question how it will change now with >>>>>>>>> Analog. Perhaps it is a good idea to save a working copy for future >>>>>>>>> use.... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I hope Analog doesn't wreck it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Aside from a few niggles LTSpice is pretty much fine the way it is. It >>>>>>> offer a lot of flexibility and it's fast. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Importing 3rd party models is a bit clunky but not egregiously so. If >>>>>>> you have a PSpice model for anything you more or less have an LTSpice >>>>>>> model. for a free product that's mostly aimed at Analog/LT's products >>>>>>> that's pretty nice. They could have been dicks and locked out >>>>>>> everything >>>>>>> that's not a discrete or their own products thankfully they didn't >>>>>>> do that. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'll try not to give them any ideas. >>>>>> >>>>>> If they did that they would loose all popularity. Who cares about >>>>>> yet another proprietary simulation tool? I could see ADI saying >>>>>> they don't want to support it anymore.. no, not even that. The fact >>>>>> that you can count on their models working with their simulator is >>>>>> an incentive to use their parts. Even if it is a small incentive, >>>>>> it likely pays dividends since the cost of maintaining it is not >>>>>> large. They also need something for internal use. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Yeah you'd think that but my impression of ADI is they are a top-down >>>>> stogy old-fashioned New England-type of technology company. They're like >>>>> the IBM of chip-makers. They have their solids in the >>>>> aerospace/defense/medical sector. If that's not you and you're not >>>>> looking at quantities of a mil they aren't much interested. How much do >>>>> they care if some simulation tool they inherited is "popular" >>>> >>>> Not my impression - at least not back in the late 1980's. Cambridge >>>> Instruments wasn't a big customer. We made perhaps one to two hundred >>>> machines a year, but those machines did use quite a few relatively >>>> expensive Analog Device parts, so we got pretty good attention. >>>> >>>> When Barry Gilbert was being taken around the European customer base, >>>> we got to talk to him. They did concentrate on expensive high >>>> performance parts for niche markets, and supporting LTSpice would be >>>> part of the service that kept those customers on side. >>>> >>> >>> Yeah, the same lead engineers who were designing the chips in 1989 are >>> still in the same positions running the show in 2020 is what a number of >>> the GlassDoor reviews for the US-based operation say. No place for new >>> talent >> >> It's a reason I can think of why they're still in the Rte 128 >> "technology corridor" after the hardware tech and computer sector died >> here ages ago and didn't pack up for Silicon Valley. All the required >> people to do the main US-based design work live in the area and have had >> a house down the street since 1975. There's not a large pool of talent >> to draw from for senior engineers in this area and you don't need to. > > Maybe you can buy a house when you grow up. > > >I can afford a house I just don't want one in Massachusetts! I think it's somewhat odd that their world HQ is still in the same place when so many of the other chip-makers and hardware companies that were in the area left ages ago and was speculating on the reason. Their mortgage is paid off and they don't need to attract much younger talent to that location it's not a particularly young-talent-attractive area. It's next to a Chevrolet dealership (which is larger than the HQ) and the closest "fine dining" is a burger king. It sure ain't Cupertino
Reply by ●May 29, 20202020-05-29
On 5/29/2020 1:30 PM, bitrex wrote:> On 5/29/2020 11:59 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >> On Fri, 29 May 2020 11:38:20 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote: >> >>> On 5/29/2020 11:28 AM, bitrex wrote: >>>> On 5/29/2020 1:09 AM, Bill Sloman wrote: >>>>> On Friday, May 29, 2020 at 11:13:06 AM UTC+10, bitrex wrote: >>>>>> On 5/28/2020 8:48 PM, Ricketty C wrote: >>>>>>> On Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 8:41:22 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote: >>>>>>>> On 5/28/2020 12:24 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >>>>>>>>> On Thu, 28 May 2020 18:09:06 +0200, olaf <olaf@criseis.ruhr.de> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Ricketty C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Bleech! Every time I try to use LTspice it's like Lucy snagging >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> football away from Charlie Brown. And just like Charlie, I keep >>>>>>>>>>> coming back. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Of course, that is true. But LT-Spice is a tool written by an >>>>>>>>>> enginer >>>>>>>>>> for other enginers and we all have a personality like Lucy. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> There's a video interview with Mike, the inventor of LT Spice, >>>>>>>>> where >>>>>>>>> he says that the real value of a circuit simulator is to >>>>>>>>> "cultivate >>>>>>>>> your intuition." >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6TrbD7-IwU >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I think he is a bit wrong about some other points, but the >>>>>>>>> instinct >>>>>>>>> training thing is very real. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I have got people started using LT Spice in literally 5 minutes. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If it was written by salesdruids it would look nice and cool >>>>>>>>>> without >>>>>>>>>> any good functionality. I this case you are the football on the >>>>>>>>>> ground. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> It is an interesting question how it will change now with >>>>>>>>>> Analog. Perhaps it is a good idea to save a working copy for >>>>>>>>>> future >>>>>>>>>> use.... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I hope Analog doesn't wreck it. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Aside from a few niggles LTSpice is pretty much fine the way it >>>>>>>> is. It >>>>>>>> offer a lot of flexibility and it's fast. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Importing 3rd party models is a bit clunky but not egregiously >>>>>>>> so. If >>>>>>>> you have a PSpice model for anything you more or less have an >>>>>>>> LTSpice >>>>>>>> model. for a free product that's mostly aimed at Analog/LT's >>>>>>>> products >>>>>>>> that's pretty nice. They could have been dicks and locked out >>>>>>>> everything >>>>>>>> that's not a discrete or their own products thankfully they didn't >>>>>>>> do that. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'll try not to give them any ideas. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If they did that they would loose all popularity. Who cares about >>>>>>> yet another proprietary simulation tool? I could see ADI saying >>>>>>> they don't want to support it anymore.. no, not even that. The fact >>>>>>> that you can count on their models working with their simulator is >>>>>>> an incentive to use their parts. Even if it is a small incentive, >>>>>>> it likely pays dividends since the cost of maintaining it is not >>>>>>> large. They also need something for internal use. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Yeah you'd think that but my impression of ADI is they are a top-down >>>>>> stogy old-fashioned New England-type of technology company. >>>>>> They're like >>>>>> the IBM of chip-makers. They have their solids in the >>>>>> aerospace/defense/medical sector. If that's not you and you're not >>>>>> looking at quantities of a mil they aren't much interested. How >>>>>> much do >>>>>> they care if some simulation tool they inherited is "popular" >>>>> >>>>> Not my impression - at least not back in the late 1980's. Cambridge >>>>> Instruments wasn't a big customer. We made perhaps one to two hundred >>>>> machines a year, but those machines did use quite a few relatively >>>>> expensive Analog Device parts, so we got pretty good attention. >>>>> >>>>> When Barry Gilbert was being taken around the European customer base, >>>>> we got to talk to him. They did concentrate on expensive high >>>>> performance parts for niche markets, and supporting LTSpice would be >>>>> part of the service that kept those customers on side. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Yeah, the same lead engineers who were designing the chips in 1989 are >>>> still in the same positions running the show in 2020 is what a >>>> number of >>>> the GlassDoor reviews for the US-based operation say. No place for new >>>> talent >>> >>> It's a reason I can think of why they're still in the Rte 128 >>> "technology corridor" after the hardware tech and computer sector died >>> here ages ago and didn't pack up for Silicon Valley. All the required >>> people to do the main US-based design work live in the area and have had >>> a house down the street since 1975. There's not a large pool of talent >>> to draw from for senior engineers in this area and you don't need to. >> >> Maybe you can buy a house when you grow up. >> >> >> > > I can afford a house I just don't want one in Massachusetts! > > I think it's somewhat odd that their world HQ is still in the same place > when so many of the other chip-makers and hardware companies that were > in the area left ages ago and was speculating on the reason. > > Their mortgage is paid off and they don't need to attract much younger > talent to that location it's not a particularly young-talent-attractive > area. It's next to a Chevrolet dealership (which is larger than the HQ) > and the closest "fine dining" is a burger king. It sure ain't CupertinoGranted a number of those other companies are long out of business now, humility can sometimes imply longevity. I'm not sure humility is the reason though. Raytheon is still around but its presence is much reduced since the 1980s; they used to have a huge lab with radar domes and antenna of unclear purpose all over the roof down the street then, it's now a Stop & Shop
Reply by ●May 29, 20202020-05-29
On 5/29/2020 11:57 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:> On Fri, 29 May 2020 11:07:48 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote: > >> On 5/29/2020 1:09 AM, Bill Sloman wrote: >>> On Friday, May 29, 2020 at 11:13:06 AM UTC+10, bitrex wrote: >>>> On 5/28/2020 8:48 PM, Ricketty C wrote: >>>>> On Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 8:41:22 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote: >>>>>> On 5/28/2020 12:24 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >>>>>>> On Thu, 28 May 2020 18:09:06 +0200, olaf <olaf@criseis.ruhr.de> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Ricketty C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Bleech! Every time I try to use LTspice it's like Lucy snagging the >>>>>>>>> football away from Charlie Brown. And just like Charlie, I keep >>>>>>>>> coming back. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Of course, that is true. But LT-Spice is a tool written by an enginer >>>>>>>> for other enginers and we all have a personality like Lucy. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There's a video interview with Mike, the inventor of LT Spice, where >>>>>>> he says that the real value of a circuit simulator is to "cultivate >>>>>>> your intuition." >>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6TrbD7-IwU >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I think he is a bit wrong about some other points, but the instinct >>>>>>> training thing is very real. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I have got people started using LT Spice in literally 5 minutes. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If it was written by salesdruids it would look nice and cool without >>>>>>>> any good functionality. I this case you are the football on the ground. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It is an interesting question how it will change now with >>>>>>>> Analog. Perhaps it is a good idea to save a working copy for future >>>>>>>> use.... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I hope Analog doesn't wreck it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Aside from a few niggles LTSpice is pretty much fine the way it is. It >>>>>> offer a lot of flexibility and it's fast. >>>>>> >>>>>> Importing 3rd party models is a bit clunky but not egregiously so. If >>>>>> you have a PSpice model for anything you more or less have an LTSpice >>>>>> model. for a free product that's mostly aimed at Analog/LT's products >>>>>> that's pretty nice. They could have been dicks and locked out everything >>>>>> that's not a discrete or their own products thankfully they didn't do that. >>>>>> >>>>>> I'll try not to give them any ideas. >>>>> >>>>> If they did that they would loose all popularity. Who cares about yet another proprietary simulation tool? I could see ADI saying they don't want to support it anymore.. no, not even that. The fact that you can count on their models working with their simulator is an incentive to use their parts. Even if it is a small incentive, it likely pays dividends since the cost of maintaining it is not large. They also need something for internal use. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Yeah you'd think that but my impression of ADI is they are a top-down >>>> stogy old-fashioned New England-type of technology company. They're like >>>> the IBM of chip-makers. They have their solids in the >>>> aerospace/defense/medical sector. If that's not you and you're not >>>> looking at quantities of a mil they aren't much interested. How much do >>>> they care if some simulation tool they inherited is "popular" >>> >>> Not my impression - at least not back in the late 1980's. Cambridge Instruments wasn't a big customer. We made perhaps one to two hundred machines a year, but those machines did use quite a few relatively expensive Analog Device parts, so we got pretty good attention. >>> >>> When Barry Gilbert was being taken around the European customer base, we got to talk to him. They did concentrate on expensive high performance parts for niche markets, and supporting LTSpice would be part of the service that kept those customers on side. >>> >> >> I ordered several samples from them of some chips a while back, for a $5 >> billion company their sample policy is pretty stingy, two of any part >> and max four parts per request per month or somesuch unless you're a >> somebody. >> >> They didn't have any stock in the US. and the samples never showed up. >> /shrug > > It's easier and faster to order parts from Digikey or Mouser or > Amazon. And they don't want your life story. >Are there particular things you find Amazon good for? They don't carry many actual chips in the way Mouser does. I use them for odds-and-ends like heat sinks, copper clad for prototyping, magnet wire, terminals & connectors/hardware, stuff like that
Reply by ●May 29, 20202020-05-29
On Fri, 29 May 2020 13:36:09 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:>On 5/29/2020 1:30 PM, bitrex wrote: >> On 5/29/2020 11:59 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >>> On Fri, 29 May 2020 11:38:20 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote: >>> >>>> On 5/29/2020 11:28 AM, bitrex wrote: >>>>> On 5/29/2020 1:09 AM, Bill Sloman wrote: >>>>>> On Friday, May 29, 2020 at 11:13:06 AM UTC+10, bitrex wrote: >>>>>>> On 5/28/2020 8:48 PM, Ricketty C wrote: >>>>>>>> On Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 8:41:22 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote: >>>>>>>>> On 5/28/2020 12:24 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 28 May 2020 18:09:06 +0200, olaf <olaf@criseis.ruhr.de> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Ricketty C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Bleech!� Every time I try to use LTspice it's like Lucy snagging >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> football away from Charlie Brown.� And just like Charlie, I keep >>>>>>>>>>>> coming back. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Of course, that is true. But LT-Spice is a tool written by an >>>>>>>>>>> enginer >>>>>>>>>>> for other enginers and we all have a personality like Lucy. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> There's a video interview with Mike, the inventor of LT Spice, >>>>>>>>>> where >>>>>>>>>> he says that the real value of a circuit simulator is to >>>>>>>>>> "cultivate >>>>>>>>>> your intuition." >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6TrbD7-IwU >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I think he is a bit wrong about some other points, but the >>>>>>>>>> instinct >>>>>>>>>> training thing is very real. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I have got people started using LT Spice in literally 5 minutes. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> If it was written by salesdruids it would look nice and cool >>>>>>>>>>> without >>>>>>>>>>> any good functionality. I this case you are the football on the >>>>>>>>>>> ground. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> It is an interesting question how it will change now with >>>>>>>>>>> Analog. Perhaps it is a good idea to save a working copy for >>>>>>>>>>> future >>>>>>>>>>> use.... >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I hope Analog doesn't wreck it. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Aside from a few niggles LTSpice is pretty much fine the way it >>>>>>>>> is. It >>>>>>>>> offer a lot of flexibility and it's fast. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Importing 3rd party models is a bit clunky but not egregiously >>>>>>>>> so. If >>>>>>>>> you have a PSpice model for anything you more or less have an >>>>>>>>> LTSpice >>>>>>>>> model. for a free product that's mostly aimed at Analog/LT's >>>>>>>>> products >>>>>>>>> that's pretty nice. They could have been dicks and locked out >>>>>>>>> everything >>>>>>>>> that's not a discrete or their own products thankfully they didn't >>>>>>>>> do that. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'll try not to give them any ideas. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If they did that they would loose all popularity.� Who cares about >>>>>>>> yet another proprietary simulation tool?� I could see ADI saying >>>>>>>> they don't want to support it anymore.. no, not even that.� The fact >>>>>>>> that you can count on their models working with their simulator is >>>>>>>> an incentive to use their parts.� Even if it is a small incentive, >>>>>>>> it likely pays dividends since the cost of maintaining it is not >>>>>>>> large.� They also need something for internal use. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Yeah you'd think that but my impression of ADI is they are a top-down >>>>>>> stogy old-fashioned New England-type of technology company. >>>>>>> They're like >>>>>>> the IBM of chip-makers. They have their solids in the >>>>>>> aerospace/defense/medical sector. If that's not you and you're not >>>>>>> looking at quantities of a mil they aren't much interested. How >>>>>>> much do >>>>>>> they care if some simulation tool they inherited is "popular" >>>>>> >>>>>> Not my impression - at least not back in the late 1980's. Cambridge >>>>>> Instruments wasn't a big customer. We made perhaps one to two hundred >>>>>> machines a year, but those machines did use quite a few relatively >>>>>> expensive Analog Device parts, so we got pretty good attention. >>>>>> >>>>>> When Barry Gilbert was being taken around the European customer base, >>>>>> we got to talk to him. They did concentrate on expensive high >>>>>> performance parts for niche markets, and supporting LTSpice would be >>>>>> part of the service that kept those customers on side. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Yeah, the same lead engineers who were designing the chips in 1989 are >>>>> still in the same positions running the show in 2020 is what a >>>>> number of >>>>> the GlassDoor reviews for the US-based operation say. No place for new >>>>> talent >>>> >>>> It's a reason I can think of why they're still in the Rte 128 >>>> "technology corridor" after the hardware tech and computer sector died >>>> here ages ago and didn't pack up for Silicon Valley. All the required >>>> people to do the main US-based design work live in the area and have had >>>> a house down the street since 1975. There's not a large pool of talent >>>> to draw from for senior engineers in this area and you don't need to. >>> >>> Maybe you can buy a house when you grow up. >>> >>> >>> >> >> I can afford a house I just don't want one in Massachusetts! >> >> I think it's somewhat odd that their world HQ is still in the same place >> when so many of the other chip-makers and hardware companies that were >> in the area left ages ago and was speculating on the reason. >> >> Their mortgage is paid off and they don't need to attract much younger >> talent to that location it's not a particularly young-talent-attractive >> area. It's next to a Chevrolet dealership (which is larger than the HQ) >> and the closest "fine dining" is a burger king. It sure ain't Cupertino > >Granted a number of those other companies are long out of business now, >humility can sometimes imply longevity. I'm not sure humility is the >reason though.ADI makes some good stuff, like analog multipliers and DDS chips and synthesizers. Some good DACs too. But they are sloppy and sometimes bizarre about the digital parts of mixed-signal stuff.> >Raytheon is still around but its presence is much reduced since the >1980s; they used to have a huge lab with radar domes and antenna of >unclear purpose all over the roof down the street then, it's now a Stop >& ShopRaytheon is a giant defense contractor, now merged with UTC/Pratt/Collins. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc Science teaches us to doubt. Claude Bernard
