George Herold wrote:>> > > Phil Allison >>> >> >> > > > >> >> ** Don't think so - no way that concoction could work or be safe. > > > > > > > > > ** The cap is not shown - why ?? > > > > > > > > Active, Neutral and Earth are not shown - why ?? > > > > > > > > The dropper cap needs to be rated for AC volts, not just DC. > > > > > > > > The fact the circuit unit is "hard wired " to the supply > > >> is CRUCIAL too. > > > > > > > > > > > >> You obviously see how the zener diodes do double duty. > > > > > > > > > > > > ** What does the symbol on the bottom right of the schem indicate?? > > > > > > > > > > > > > A very iteresting circuit, to those able to see it. > > > > > > > > > > > > ** Shame you did not draw it correctly. > > > > > > Bear in mind that this is a reverse engineering work in progress. > > > > > > ** I bear no such damn thing in mind since you did NOT mention it before. > > > > > > > Additional labels are now present on the schematic. > > > > > > ** That is the SLEASIEST thing I have ever seen anyone do on usenet !!! > > > > The bullshitting prick has posted a NEW circuit under that SAME > > address as the previse entirely faulty one. > > > > What a bloody deceit !!! > > > > Previous completely correct comments are now all rendered moot > > as no-one can see the old schem. > > > > It's OK Phil.. >** So says a self serving fuckwit who failed to see all the absurd errors.> The first schematic was missing some crucial bits.** It was as lot worse than that - but the arsehole radio ham prick ( is there another kind ? ) has VANISHED it preventing all discussion and rendering other's critical posts meaningless. BTW: You still need to learn how to read a circuit and plain English too. ..... Phil
AC offline to low-V supply, with a cap
Started by ●March 6, 2019
Reply by ●March 9, 20192019-03-09
Reply by ●March 9, 20192019-03-09
upsid...@downunder.com wrote:> > > > >** Unfortunately, most SMPS and the like have no link from supply > > neutral to circuit common - only floating the AC supply and > > linking the AC side common to ground internally allows free use > > of a scope to trouble shoot the PSU. > > > Yes, true for single phase full wave rectifier. Either use insulated, > battery powered, floating test equipment, such as DVMs and battery > powered oscilloscopes. >** Battery powered scopes are potentially lethal on the work bench. I know cos I own one, an MS15 by Non LinearSystems. ( snip crap)> > >> >> ** Rule 1: > >> >> > >> >> Never connect them to the AC supply plug earth pin unless you > >> >> intend to kill someone. > >> > >> > >> A Class II (double insulated) device never has a ground connection. > >> > > > >** 100% not true. > > > > The vast majority of domestic audio and video equipment is > > Class II insulated these days - HOWEVER the metalwork and circuitry > > become linked to ground in normal use by being interfaced with > > any non Class II item. The scope on your bench is one such. > > > Class II only refers to the mains connection,** Utter bullshit. What drugs are you on ??? Class II is all about user safety and exposed metalwork must be "double insulated " from the AC supply and earth. Never seen the notice: "Double Insulated - do not earth" ??? -----------------------------------------------------------> it does not require galvanic separation on audio, video or data connections. >** Irrelevant and not what I wrote. The essential requirement is that there is NO connection to supply ground by whatever means. Such connection not only eliminates the safety inherent in class 2 it also allows a horror situation in which multiple, interconnected Class II items all become electrocution hazards because of one faulty item, miswired lead or outlet. .... Phil
Reply by ●March 9, 20192019-03-09
On Sat, 9 Mar 2019 12:27:44 -0800 (PST), Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:> >upsid...@downunder.com wrote: > > >> >> > >> >** Unfortunately, most SMPS and the like have no link from supply >> > neutral to circuit common - only floating the AC supply and >> > linking the AC side common to ground internally allows free use >> > of a scope to trouble shoot the PSU. >> >> >> Yes, true for single phase full wave rectifier. Either use insulated, >> battery powered, floating test equipment, such as DVMs and battery >> powered oscilloscopes. >> > >** Battery powered scopes are potentially lethal on the work bench. > > I know cos I own one, an MS15 by Non LinearSystems. > > > ( snip crap) > > >> >> >> >> ** Rule 1: >> >> >> >> >> >> Never connect them to the AC supply plug earth pin unless you >> >> >> intend to kill someone. >> >> >> >> >> >> A Class II (double insulated) device never has a ground connection. >> >> >> > >> >** 100% not true. >> > >> > The vast majority of domestic audio and video equipment is >> > Class II insulated these days - HOWEVER the metalwork and circuitry >> > become linked to ground in normal use by being interfaced with >> > any non Class II item. The scope on your bench is one such. >> >> >> Class II only refers to the mains connection, > > >** Utter bullshit. What drugs are you on ??? > >Class II is all about user safety and exposed metalwork must be "double insulated " from the AC supply and earth. > >Never seen the notice: "Double Insulated - do not earth" ??? >----------------------------------------------------------- > > > >> it does not require galvanic separation on audio, video or data connections. >> > >** Irrelevant and not what I wrote. > >The essential requirement is that there is NO connection to supply ground by whatever means. Such connection not only eliminates the safety inherent in class 2 it also allows a horror situation in which multiple, interconnected Class II items all become electrocution hazards because of one faulty item, miswired lead or outlet.You seem to confuse with SELV https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extra-low_voltage#Separated_or_safety_extra-low_voltage_(SELV) Safety/Separated extra-low voltage i.e. voltages below 50 Vac or 120 Vdc, in which no external connections allowed. I was referring to ordinary Class II LV circuits, not SELV.
Reply by ●March 9, 20192019-03-09
upsid...@downunder.com wrote:> >Phil Allison > < >> > > >> > >> > > >> >** Unfortunately, most SMPS and the like have no link from supply > >> > neutral to circuit common - only floating the AC supply and > >> > linking the AC side common to ground internally allows free use > >> > of a scope to trouble shoot the PSU. > >> > >> > >> Yes, true for single phase full wave rectifier. Either use insulated, > >> battery powered, floating test equipment, such as DVMs and battery > >> powered oscilloscopes. > >> > > > >** Battery powered scopes are potentially lethal on the work bench. > > > > I know cos I own one, an MS15 by Non LinearSystems. > > > > > > ( snip crap) > > > > > >> > >> >> >> ** Rule 1: > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Never connect them to the AC supply plug earth pin unless you > >> >> >> intend to kill someone. > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> A Class II (double insulated) device never has a ground connection. > >> >> > >> > > >> >** 100% not true. > >> > > >> > The vast majority of domestic audio and video equipment is > >> > Class II insulated these days - HOWEVER the metalwork and circuitry > >> > become linked to ground in normal use by being interfaced with > >> > any non Class II item. The scope on your bench is one such. > >> > >> > >> Class II only refers to the mains connection, > > > > > >** Utter bullshit. What drugs are you on ??? > > > >Class II is all about user safety and exposed metalwork must be "double insulated " from the AC supply and earth. > > > >Never seen the notice: "Double Insulated - do not earth" ??? > >----------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > >> it does not require galvanic separation on audio, video or data connections. > >> > > > >** Irrelevant and not what I wrote. > > > >The essential requirement is that there is NO connection to supply ground by whatever means. Such connection not only eliminates the safety inherent in class 2 it also allows a horror situation in which multiple, interconnected Class II items all become electrocution hazards because of one faulty item, miswired lead or outlet. > > > You seem to confuse with SELV** No fucking way !!! YOU are the confused one here - pal.> > I was referring to ordinary Class II LV circuits,** FFS try reading up on what Class2 is all about !!! STOP posting dangerous, complete BULLSHITTTT !!!! What I posted is 100% FACT and you have deceitfully AVOIDED answering a single word of it so hiding you massive ignorance. ..... Phil
Reply by ●March 9, 20192019-03-09
On Saturday, March 9, 2019 at 3:01:16 PM UTC-5, Phil Allison wrote:> George Herold wrote: > > >> > > > Phil Allison > >>> > >> >> > > > > >> >> ** Don't think so - no way that concoction could work or be safe. > > > > > > > > > > > > ** The cap is not shown - why ?? > > > > > > > > > > Active, Neutral and Earth are not shown - why ?? > > > > > > > > > > The dropper cap needs to be rated for AC volts, not just DC. > > > > > > > > > > The fact the circuit unit is "hard wired " to the supply > > > >> is CRUCIAL too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> You obviously see how the zener diodes do double duty. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** What does the symbol on the bottom right of the schem indicate?? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A very iteresting circuit, to those able to see it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** Shame you did not draw it correctly. > > > > > > > > Bear in mind that this is a reverse engineering work in progress. > > > > > > > > > ** I bear no such damn thing in mind since you did NOT mention it before. > > > > > > > > > > Additional labels are now present on the schematic. > > > > > > > > > ** That is the SLEASIEST thing I have ever seen anyone do on usenet !!! > > > > > > The bullshitting prick has posted a NEW circuit under that SAME > > > address as the previse entirely faulty one. > > > > > > What a bloody deceit !!! > > > > > > Previous completely correct comments are now all rendered moot > > > as no-one can see the old schem. > > > > > > > It's OK Phil.. > > > > ** So says a self serving fuckwit who failed to see all the absurd errors. > > > > > The first schematic was missing some crucial bits. > > > ** It was as lot worse than that - but the arsehole radio ham prick ( is there another kind ? ) has VANISHED it preventing all discussion and rendering other's critical posts meaningless. > > BTW: > > You still need to learn how to read a circuit and plain English too.Yeah you are absolutely right, without some current limit the first (now updated circuit) would fail. My mistake. George H.> > > ..... Phil
Reply by ●March 9, 20192019-03-09
On Saturday, March 9, 2019 at 12:47:01 AM UTC-5, Phil Allison wrote:> gnuarm.del > > > Phil Allison wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What a fucking cunt and ham radio asshole !!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > .... Phil > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What sort of mental illness do you think Phil has? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** What sort of despicable, criminal convictions does this trolling Prick have? > > > > > > Anyone car to guess ? > > > > > > > > > > Anyone care to guess? > > > > > > > > Rick C. > > > > > > > > > .... Phil > > > > Yep, he is wound up now!!! > > > ** I've only just started on lying pricks like you. > > > It never takes much to set him off. > > > ** Absurd, gross, gratuitous insults are hardly not much. > > > There has to be a name for what is wrong with Phil. > > > ** There are names for what is wrong with you and you stinking ilk. > > Let's start with " autistic psychopath " and gutless fuckwit troll" for examples. > > > > > The really amazing part is that he seems to think that posting > > profanities on the Internet has some impact on somebody. > > > > > > ** Very strange what amazes complete morons like Prick C. The simplest things amaze folk who totally lack insight, have no honesty or any conscience whatever. > > I sincerely hope a nice dose of bowel cancer is coming his.You never fail to amuse. America's premier insult comic. Just not very funny. Pathetic really. Rick C.
Reply by ●March 10, 20192019-03-10
On Saturday, 9 March 2019 20:27:47 UTC, Phil Allison wrote:> upsid...@downunder.com wrote:> Never seen the notice: "Double Insulated - do not earth" ??? > -----------------------------------------------------------> The essential requirement is that there is NO connection to supply ground by whatever means. Such connection not only eliminates the safety inherent in class 2 it also allows a horror situation in which multiple, interconnected Class II items all become electrocution hazards because of one faulty item, miswired lead or outlet.2 errors there. 1. The essential aspect of 'double insulation' is the extra measures taken to prevent hazardous voltages appearing on external metal parts. 'Double insulation' should not be taken literally, as while some parts are required to be literally double insulated, some are not. Earthing a double insulated (or to be more precise a class 2) appliance does not negate the safety features of double insulation. 2. Earthing/grounding a class 2 metal cased device & connecting several together does not make it a shock hazard. That claim is just confused. Time for you to rant now. NT
Reply by ●March 10, 20192019-03-10
On Sunday, March 10, 2019 at 5:38:10 AM UTC-4, tabb...@gmail.com wrote:> On Saturday, 9 March 2019 20:27:47 UTC, Phil Allison wrote: > > upsid...@downunder.com wrote: > > > Never seen the notice: "Double Insulated - do not earth" ??? > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > > The essential requirement is that there is NO connection to supply ground by whatever means. Such connection not only eliminates the safety inherent in class 2 it also allows a horror situation in which multiple, interconnected Class II items all become electrocution hazards because of one faulty item, miswired lead or outlet. > > 2 errors there. > > 1. The essential aspect of 'double insulation' is the extra measures taken to prevent hazardous voltages appearing on external metal parts. 'Double insulation' should not be taken literally, as while some parts are required to be literally double insulated, some are not. Earthing a double insulated (or to be more precise a class 2) appliance does not negate the safety features of double insulation. > > 2. Earthing/grounding a class 2 metal cased device & connecting several together does not make it a shock hazard. That claim is just confused. > > Time for you to rant now.When is it not time for Phil to rant? Rick C.
Reply by ●March 10, 20192019-03-10
On Sun, 10 Mar 2019 07:27:11 -0700, gnuarm.deletethisbit wrote:> On Sunday, March 10, 2019 at 5:38:10 AM UTC-4, tabb...@gmail.com wrote: >> On Saturday, 9 March 2019 20:27:47 UTC, Phil Allison wrote: >> > upsid...@downunder.com wrote: >> >> > Never seen the notice: "Double Insulated - do not earth" ??? >> > ----------------------------------------------------------- >> >> > The essential requirement is that there is NO connection to supply >> > ground by whatever means. Such connection not only eliminates the >> > safety inherent in class 2 it also allows a horror situation in which >> > multiple, interconnected Class II items all become electrocution >> > hazards because of one faulty item, miswired lead or outlet. >> >> 2 errors there. >> >> 1. The essential aspect of 'double insulation' is the extra measures >> taken to prevent hazardous voltages appearing on external metal parts. >> 'Double insulation' should not be taken literally, as while some parts >> are required to be literally double insulated, some are not. Earthing a >> double insulated (or to be more precise a class 2) appliance does not >> negate the safety features of double insulation. >> >> 2. Earthing/grounding a class 2 metal cased device & connecting several >> together does not make it a shock hazard. That claim is just confused. >> >> Time for you to rant now. > > When is it not time for Phil to rant? >When everyone else in the thread has, metaphorically, perfected the art of walking on eggshells without cracking them? -- Johnny B Good
Reply by ●March 10, 20192019-03-10
George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> writes:> On Saturday, March 9, 2019 at 3:01:16 PM UTC-5, Phil Allison wrote: >> George Herold wrote: >> >> >> >> > > Phil Allison >> >>> >> >> >> >> > > > >> >> ** Don't think so - no way that concoction could work or be safe. >> > >> > > > > >> > > > > ** The cap is not shown - why ?? >> > > > > >> > > > > Active, Neutral and Earth are not shown - why ?? >> > > > > >> > > > > The dropper cap needs to be rated for AC volts, not just DC. >> > > > > >> > > > > The fact the circuit unit is "hard wired " to the supply >> > > >> is CRUCIAL too. >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> You obviously see how the zener diodes do double duty. >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > ** What does the symbol on the bottom right of the schem indicate?? >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > A very iteresting circuit, to those able to see it. >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > ** Shame you did not draw it correctly. >> > > > >> > > > Bear in mind that this is a reverse engineering work in progress. >> > > >> > > >> > > ** I bear no such damn thing in mind since you did NOT mention it before. >> > > >> > > >> > > > Additional labels are now present on the schematic. >> > > >> > > >> > > ** That is the SLEASIEST thing I have ever seen anyone do on usenet !!! >> > > >> > > The bullshitting prick has posted a NEW circuit under that SAME >> > > address as the previse entirely faulty one. >> > > >> > > What a bloody deceit !!! >> > > >> > > Previous completely correct comments are now all rendered moot >> > > as no-one can see the old schem. >> > > >> > >> > It's OK Phil.. >> > >> >> ** So says a self serving fuckwit who failed to see all the absurd errors. >> >> >> >> > The first schematic was missing some crucial bits. >> >> >> ** It was as lot worse than that - but the arsehole radio ham prick >> ( is there another kind ? ) has VANISHED it preventing all >> discussion and rendering other's critical posts meaningless. >> >> BTW: >> >> You still need to learn how to read a circuit and plain English too. > Yeah you are absolutely right, without some current limit the first > (now updated circuit) would fail. My mistake.Oh dear... yes I was wondering what Phil was on about. The circuit was already updated when I started reading this thread today :) -- John Devereux
