On Wednesday, 13 March 2019 13:23:32 UTC, tabbypurr  wrote:
> On Tuesday, 12 March 2019 20:53:59 UTC, the frothing Phil Allison  wrote:
> > tabbypurr
> > >Phil Allison  wrote:

> > > 1. The essential aspect of 'double insulation' is the extra measures
> > > taken to prevent hazardous voltages appearing on external metal parts.
> > >
> > 
> >  ** Grounding achieves the same result - so that is not true. 
> 
> not quite. Both shock protection schemes have different issues, both can end up causing a shock under some uncommon situations.
> 
> Earth/ground/CPC voltage can rise due to high fault current into a local earth electrode. In (can't remember the word, but systems able to disconnect power in that scenario) systems mandated here from 1955 (but not always 

EEBAD it's called.

implemented) that CPC shock voltage is transient. In noncompliant systems that shock voltage can remain indefinitely. This is a weakness of earthing/grounding metal appliance cases. Vulnerability to wiring errors is another issue.
> 
> Class II is immune to those issues, but able to become dangerously live as a result of connecting to another faulty appliance. It is also vulnerable to causing shock from poor manufacture with inadequate insulation, whereas class I is not vulnerable to that.


NT

On Wednesday, 13 March 2019 19:47:20 UTC, Phil Allison  wrote:
> tabb... is a lying Nut Case
> 
> 
> 
> > > >Phil Allison  wrote:
> > 
> > > > > Never seen the notice: "Double Insulated - do not earth" ??? 
> > > > > -----------------------------------------------------------
> > > > 
> > > > > The essential requirement is that there is NO connection to
> > > > > supply ground by whatever means. Such connection not only eliminates
> > > > > the safety inherent in class 2 it also allows a horror situation
> > > > > in which multiple, interconnected Class II items all become
> > > > > electrocution hazards because of one faulty item, miswired lead or
> > > > > outlet. 
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 
> > > > 2 errors there.
> > > > 
> > > > 1. The essential aspect of 'double insulation' is the extra measures
> > > > taken to prevent hazardous voltages appearing on external metal parts.
> > > >
> > > 
> > >  ** Grounding achieves the same result - so that is not true. 
> > 
> > not quite.
> 
> 
> **  Meaningless.
> 
> 
>  
> > > > 'Double insulation' should not be taken literally, as while some parts
> > > > are required to be literally double insulated, some are not.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > **  Meaningless. 
> > 
> > it means what it says
> 
> 
> ** And is inherently meaningless - like you. 
> 
> 
>  
> > > > Earthing a double insulated (or to be more precise a class 2) appliance
> > > > does not negate the safety features of double insulation.
> > > > 
> > > 
> > >  ** It very obviously does.
> > 
> > No,
> 
> 
> ** Shame about the prohibition: " ... do not earth". 
> 
>   This pig ignorant lying cunt has wanked itself blind. 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> > > > 2. Earthing/grounding a class 2 metal cased device & connecting 
> > > > several together does not make it a shock hazard.
> > > >
> > > 
> > > ** It very obviously does. 
> > 
> > it very obviously does not.
> 
> 
> ** It very obviously does and YOU have no answer. 
> 
>    The tab fuckwit TROLL has no clue, no case and makes no sense. 
> 
>    The is simply nothing for me to answer.
> 
>    But like any autistic fuckwit on usenet, he will never give up. 
>    
> 
> 
> 
> .....  Phil 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > >  The tabb fuckwit has no clue and posts no case.
> > > 
> > >  So there is " no case to answer ". 
> > > 
> > >  FOAD you pile of puss.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ....    Phil
> >

well that's one way to demonstrate you have nothing to add.

tabb...is a lying ASD fucked idiot 


> 
> correct, at least under the usual circumstances. Occasionally 
> those don't apply of course.
> 
>

** FOAD you TROLLING pile of garbage. 

tabb... is a lying Nut Case



> > >Phil Allison  wrote:
> 
> > > > Never seen the notice: "Double Insulated - do not earth" ??? 
> > > > -----------------------------------------------------------
> > > 
> > > > The essential requirement is that there is NO connection to
> > > > supply ground by whatever means. Such connection not only eliminates
> > > > the safety inherent in class 2 it also allows a horror situation
> > > > in which multiple, interconnected Class II items all become
> > > > electrocution hazards because of one faulty item, miswired lead or
> > > > outlet. 
> > >
> > >
> > > 
> > > 2 errors there.
> > > 
> > > 1. The essential aspect of 'double insulation' is the extra measures
> > > taken to prevent hazardous voltages appearing on external metal parts.
> > >
> > 
> >  ** Grounding achieves the same result - so that is not true. 
> 
> not quite.


**  Meaningless.


 
> > > 'Double insulation' should not be taken literally, as while some parts
> > > are required to be literally double insulated, some are not.
> > 
> > 
> > **  Meaningless. 
> 
> it means what it says


** And is inherently meaningless - like you. 


 
> > > Earthing a double insulated (or to be more precise a class 2) appliance
> > > does not negate the safety features of double insulation.
> > > 
> > 
> >  ** It very obviously does.
> 
> No,


** Shame about the prohibition: " ... do not earth". 

  This pig ignorant lying cunt has wanked itself blind. 



 
> > > 2. Earthing/grounding a class 2 metal cased device & connecting 
> > > several together does not make it a shock hazard.
> > >
> > 
> > ** It very obviously does. 
> 
> it very obviously does not.


** It very obviously does and YOU have no answer. 

   The tab fuckwit TROLL has no clue, no case and makes no sense. 

   The is simply nothing for me to answer.

   But like any autistic fuckwit on usenet, he will never give up. 
   



.....  Phil 
 





> >  The tabb fuckwit has no clue and posts no case.
> > 
> >  So there is " no case to answer ". 
> > 
> >  FOAD you pile of puss.
> > 
> > 
> > ....    Phil
> 

On Wednesday, 13 March 2019 00:41:22 UTC, Phil Allison  wrote:
> George Herold wrote:

> > I read class 2 as being floating.. not once but twice.
> > 
> > But what do I know...?
> > 
> 
> ** Not much. 
> 
> Class II construction is a formula for removing the shock hazard of an appliance by eliminating the possibility of exposed metalwork becoming live.
> 
> Additional insulation is used beyond that needed for the unit to function - plus means are included that prevent the insulation becoming damaged by hot supply current carrying conductors under overload or fault conditions. 
> 
> Yes, the exposed metalwork is left "floating" and as such it can neither be the source of nor provide an earth path for an electric shock. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ....   Phil

correct, at least under the usual circumstances. Occasionally those don't apply of course.


NT

On Tuesday, 12 March 2019 20:53:59 UTC, the frothing Phil Allison  wrote:
> tabbypurr
> >Phil Allison  wrote:

> > > Never seen the notice: "Double Insulated - do not earth" ??? 
> > > -----------------------------------------------------------
> > 
> > > The essential requirement is that there is NO connection to
> > > supply ground by whatever means. Such connection not only eliminates
> > > the safety inherent in class 2 it also allows a horror situation
> > > in which multiple, interconnected Class II items all become
> > > electrocution hazards because of one faulty item, miswired lead or
> > > outlet. 
> >
> >
> > 
> > 2 errors there.
> > 
> > 1. The essential aspect of 'double insulation' is the extra measures
> > taken to prevent hazardous voltages appearing on external metal parts.
> >
> 
>  ** Grounding achieves the same result - so that is not true. 

not quite. Both shock protection schemes have different issues, both can end up causing a shock under some uncommon situations.

Earth/ground/CPC voltage can rise due to high fault current into a local earth electrode. In (can't remember the word, but systems able to disconnect power in that scenario) systems mandated here from 1955 (but not always implemented) that CPC shock voltage is transient. In noncompliant systems that shock voltage can remain indefinitely. This is a weakness of earthing/grounding metal appliance cases. Vulnerability to wiring errors is another issue.

Class II is immune to those issues, but able to become dangerously live as a result of connecting to another faulty appliance. It is also vulnerable to causing shock from poor manufacture with inadequate insulation, whereas class I is not vulnerable to that.


> > 'Double insulation' should not be taken literally, as while some parts
> > are required to be literally double insulated, some are not.
> 
> 
> **  Meaningless. 

it means what it says

> > Earthing a double insulated (or to be more precise a class 2) appliance
> > does not negate the safety features of double insulation.
> > 
> 
>  ** It very obviously does.

No, either way the user is normally safe from shock. It's only edge cases where there is any effective difference.


> > 2. Earthing/grounding a class 2 metal cased device & connecting 
> > several together does not make it a shock hazard.
> >
> 
> ** It very obviously does. 

it very obviously does not. Phil very obviously does not understand this topic.

>  The tabb fuckwit has no clue and posts no case.
> 
>  So there is " no case to answer ". 
> 
>  FOAD you pile of puss.
> 
> 
> ....    Phil

and has some other problems as we can see.


NT

upsid...compleet fucking IDIOT wrote:


> 
> The double insulated application class is Class II (not Class 2).
> 
> Phil seems to mix Class II with Class III, 


 **  What utter BULLSHIT !!!!!

 



....   Phil 

On Tue, 12 Mar 2019 17:12:49 -0700 (PDT), George Herold
<gherold@teachspin.com> wrote:

>
>Having shown myself to be the Jester on this thread,
>(and knowing nothing of classes..
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appliance_classes
>)
>I read class 2 as being floating.. not once but twice.
>

The double insulated application class is Class II (not Class 2).

Phil seems to mix Class II with Class III, which is a SELV (Separate
Extra-Low voltage) contraption, in  which no other connections are
allowed. 

One classical example is work lights for working _inside_ a metallic
container, which requires an ELV lamp (typically less than 24 Vac) fed
by an external isolation transformer with primary and secondary in
separate slots. The secondary side connection is two pole only and a
special type connector is used to allow only a simple lamp to be
connected to the isolation transformer. Possibly also a fixed cable
connection between isolation transformer and lamp to prevent other
connections to the ELV line.

George Herold wrote:

> 
> > George Herold wrote:
> > 
> > 
> >
> > > I read class 2 as being floating.. not once but twice.
> > > 
> > > But what do I know...?
> > > 
> > 
> > ** Not much. 
>
> Grin :^)  about class 2.. already conceded.  
> 
> If you have questions about the angular momentum/ spin
> states of Rubidium.. hit me up!
> (magnetometers, atomic clocks, ... )
> 
> 

** How many angels can dance on the head of a pin ? 


 
....  Phil

On Tuesday, March 12, 2019 at 8:41:22 PM UTC-4, Phil Allison wrote:
> George Herold wrote:
> 
> 
> >
> >
> > I read class 2 as being floating.. not once but twice.
> > 
> > But what do I know...?
> > 
> 
> ** Not much. 
Grin :^)  about class 2.. already conceded.  

If you have questions about the angular momentum/ spin
states of Rubidium.. hit me up!
(magnetometers, atomic clocks, ... )

George H.
 
> 
> Class II construction is a formula for removing the shock hazard of an appliance by eliminating the possibility of exposed metalwork becoming live.
> 
> Additional insulation is used beyond that needed for the unit to function - plus means are included that prevent the insulation becoming damaged by hot supply current carrying conductors under overload or fault conditions. 
> 
> Yes, the exposed metalwork is left "floating" and as such it can neither be the source of nor provide an earth path for an electric shock. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ....   Phil