This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------050108030007050102040404 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 8/10/2015 12:40 PM, Phil Hobbs wrote:> On 8/10/2015 12:01 PM, Jim Thompson wrote: >> On Mon, 10 Aug 2015 11:40:42 -0400, Phil Hobbs >> <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote: >> >>> On 08/10/2015 11:03 AM, Jim Thompson wrote: >>>> On Sun, 9 Aug 2015 16:24:53 -0700 (PDT), Phil Hobbs >>>> <pcdhobbs@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi, Jim, >>>>> >>>>> If you've got some spare bandwidth, I could really use an improved >>>>> OPA2140 model. >>>>> >>>>> It's a very good part for moderate speed, low current, high >>>>> linearity TIAs, but it's a bear to simulate because the model won't >>>>> converge on an operating point in LTspice. >>>>> >>>>> I took the TINA model TI supplies and replaced the VSWITCH cards >>>>> with LTspice SW cards with negative hysteresis (more or less like >>>>> your fave tanh curve), but it still won't converge on ac or noise >>>>> sims. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks >>>>> >>>>> Phil Hobbs >>>> >>>> Took a quicky peek at the PSpice OPA2140 model... it doesn't like to >>>> queue up with input starting at rail... so I'm guessing all that >>>> switch crap is swing limiting... but works just fine from zero +/- >>>> >>>> I did an AC at +/-5V supplies... shows serious feed-thru starting just >>>> above 60MHz. >>>> >>>> How are you using it, and what do you need modeled? >>>> >>>> What are your conditions when you have convergence issues? >>>> >>>> Could be that a significantly simplified model would serve your >>>> purpose? >>>> >>>> ...Jim Thompson >>>> >>> >>> I'm using it for single-supply TIAs--it has a unique combination of >>> decent speed, low noise, low input current, RR output, and guaranteed >>> CMR goes below ground. >> >> RR Output is actually 0.2V above negative rail. So, to use CMR fully, >> you need to queue-up feedback so that output stays 0.2V away from >> negative rail. > > Doesn't work for me even with V_EE = -3V. It does start up when the > supplies are close to symmetrical about the inputs. >> >>> >>> I can't get it to converge on an operating point with the supply turned >>> on at t=0, so no AC or noise analyses are possible. How exactly did you >>> set it up? >>> >>> I know it'll work in real life, but I'm not too happy having to sub a >>> TL072 with an auxiliary negative supply--takes extra explaining to the >>> customer, so a decent model would be great. >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> Phil Hobbs >> >> Can send me your schematic (as used)? >> >> ...Jim Thompson >> > Sure. It's kind of an interesting one--very low power for a bootstrap > (5 mW) due to sample heating limitations in a portable instrument. It > uses shunt feedback like the PNP wraparound trick, but upside down, > which saves a transistor and about halves the operating current.Here's the same file as an attachment, for those whose news servers support them. Cheers Phil Hobbs -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics 160 North State Road #203 Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 hobbs at electrooptical dot net http://electrooptical.net --------------050108030007050102040404 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; name="OPA140_TIA.asc" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="OPA140_TIA.asc" Version 4 SHEET 1 2256 15024 WIRE -672 32 -1056 32 WIRE -416 32 -672 32 WIRE -384 32 -416 32 WIRE -336 32 -384 32 WIRE -208 32 -240 32 WIRE -128 32 -208 32 WIRE 112 32 -48 32 WIRE 144 32 112 32 WIRE -384 48 -384 32 WIRE -208 48 -208 32 WIRE 656 64 656 48 WIRE 816 64 816 48 WIRE -672 112 -672 32 WIRE -112 112 -144 112 WIRE -16 112 -48 112 WIRE 16 112 -16 112 WIRE 112 112 112 32 WIRE 112 112 80 112 WIRE 256 112 256 96 WIRE -384 128 -384 112 WIRE -208 128 -208 112 WIRE -288 176 -288 96 WIRE -160 176 -288 176 WIRE -144 176 -144 112 WIRE -144 176 -160 176 WIRE -128 176 -144 176 WIRE -16 176 -16 112 WIRE -16 176 -48 176 WIRE 16 176 -16 176 WIRE 112 176 112 112 WIRE 112 176 96 176 WIRE -160 192 -160 176 WIRE -16 192 -16 176 WIRE -16 208 -16 192 WIRE 208 208 160 208 WIRE 336 208 272 208 WIRE -816 240 -848 240 WIRE -768 240 -816 240 WIRE -672 240 -672 192 WIRE -672 240 -768 240 WIRE -672 256 -672 240 WIRE -160 272 -160 256 WIRE -16 272 -16 256 WIRE 160 288 160 208 WIRE 208 288 160 288 WIRE 336 288 336 208 WIRE 336 288 288 288 WIRE -1056 320 -1056 32 WIRE -288 320 -624 320 WIRE -224 320 -288 320 WIRE -96 320 -224 320 WIRE 0 320 -96 320 WIRE 160 320 160 288 WIRE 160 320 0 320 WIRE -848 336 -848 240 WIRE -768 352 -768 240 WIRE -288 352 -288 320 WIRE -224 368 -224 320 WIRE -672 384 -672 352 WIRE -624 384 -672 384 WIRE -400 384 -624 384 WIRE -400 400 -400 384 WIRE -96 400 -96 320 WIRE 160 400 160 320 WIRE 208 400 160 400 WIRE -672 416 -672 384 WIRE 336 416 336 288 WIRE 336 416 272 416 WIRE 384 416 336 416 WIRE 528 416 464 416 WIRE 208 432 176 432 WIRE -848 464 -848 400 WIRE -784 464 -848 464 WIRE -768 464 -768 432 WIRE -768 464 -784 464 WIRE -736 464 -768 464 WIRE -288 464 -288 432 WIRE -288 464 -400 464 WIRE -224 464 -224 432 WIRE -224 464 -288 464 WIRE -1056 480 -1056 400 WIRE -976 480 -1056 480 WIRE -96 496 -96 464 WIRE -1056 512 -1056 480 WIRE -784 512 -784 464 WIRE 48 512 32 512 WIRE 144 512 128 512 WIRE 176 512 176 432 WIRE 176 512 144 512 WIRE 256 512 176 512 WIRE 320 512 256 512 WIRE 432 512 400 512 WIRE -400 528 -400 464 WIRE 176 528 176 512 WIRE 256 528 256 512 WIRE 32 544 32 512 WIRE -976 560 -976 480 WIRE -976 560 -992 560 WIRE -848 560 -976 560 WIRE 256 608 256 592 WIRE 256 608 176 608 WIRE -672 624 -672 512 WIRE -400 624 -400 608 WIRE 144 624 144 512 WIRE 144 624 -400 624 WIRE 176 624 176 608 WIRE -1056 640 -1056 608 WIRE -784 640 -784 608 FLAG 816 64 0 FLAG 656 64 0 FLAG 656 -32 VCC FLAG 816 -32 VEE FLAG 144 32 VCC FLAG 176 624 0 FLAG 528 416 Out FLAG 0 320 SJ FLAG -624 384 Boot FLAG -96 496 0 FLAG 256 112 0 FLAG 256 16 +12 FLAG -672 624 0 FLAG -784 640 0 FLAG -816 240 drain FLAG 240 384 +12 FLAG -16 272 0 FLAG -160 272 0 FLAG -384 128 0 FLAG -208 128 0 FLAG 240 448 VEE FLAG 32 544 CM FLAG -416 32 CM FLAG 432 512 zero FLAG -1056 640 0 SYMBOL voltage 816 -48 M0 WINDOW 0 41 50 Left 2 WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 2 WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 2 WINDOW 3 -104 163 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName V1 SYMATTR Value -12 SYMBOL voltage 656 -48 M0 WINDOW 0 -69 56 Left 2 WINDOW 123 24 124 Left 2 WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 2 WINDOW 3 45 58 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName V2 SYMATTR Value2 AC 0 SYMATTR Value 5 SYMBOL cap -240 368 R0 WINDOW 3 45 50 Left 2 SYMATTR Value 1.6n SYMATTR InstName C1 SYMBOL njf -624 256 M0 WINDOW 3 -121 36 Left 2 SYMATTR Value BF862_1pA SYMATTR InstName Q6 SYMBOL res -688 96 R0 WINDOW 0 -55 7 Left 2 WINDOW 3 -92 63 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName R5 SYMATTR Value {Rbias} SYMBOL res 192 304 R270 WINDOW 0 34 21 VTop 2 WINDOW 3 63 94 VBottom 2 SYMATTR InstName R4 SYMATTR Value 50meg SYMBOL cap 208 224 R270 WINDOW 0 37 -14 VTop 2 WINDOW 3 63 80 VBottom 2 SYMATTR InstName C3 SYMATTR Value 1p SYMBOL cap -112 400 R0 WINDOW 0 57 32 Left 2 WINDOW 3 36 66 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName C5 SYMATTR Value {Cstray} SYMBOL voltage 256 0 M0 WINDOW 0 -69 56 Left 2 WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 2 WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 2 WINDOW 3 -72 96 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName V4 SYMATTR Value 12 SYMBOL npn -736 416 R0 SYMATTR InstName Q1 SYMATTR Value {betagrade} SYMBOL cap -416 400 R0 WINDOW 3 25 12 Left 2 WINDOW 0 28 -19 Left 2 SYMATTR Value 1=B5 SYMATTR InstName C2 SYMBOL res -784 336 R0 WINDOW 0 55 35 Left 2 WINDOW 3 43 80 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName R1 SYMATTR Value 91k SYMBOL cap -864 336 R0 WINDOW 3 24 78 Left 2 SYMATTR Value 1=B5 SYMATTR InstName C4 SYMBOL npn -240 96 M270 WINDOW 0 60 60 VLeft 2 WINDOW 3 93 103 VLeft 2 SYMATTR InstName Q2 SYMATTR Value {betagrade} SYMBOL cap -144 192 M0 SYMATTR InstName C6 SYMATTR Value 4.7=B5 SYMBOL cap 0 192 M0 WINDOW 0 -33 64 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName C7 SYMATTR Value 4.7=B5 SYMBOL res -32 192 M270 WINDOW 0 -59 62 VTop 2 WINDOW 3 0 56 VBottom 2 SYMATTR InstName R3 SYMATTR Value 15k SYMBOL res 112 192 M270 WINDOW 0 -62 61 VTop 2 WINDOW 3 0 56 VBottom 2 SYMATTR InstName R8 SYMATTR Value 15k SYMBOL cap -400 48 R0 WINDOW 0 -55 40 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName C8 SYMATTR Value 10=B5 SYMBOL res -144 48 R270 WINDOW 0 32 56 VTop 2 WINDOW 3 57 107 VBottom 2 SYMATTR InstName R9 SYMATTR Value 100 SYMBOL cap -224 48 R0 SYMATTR InstName C9 SYMATTR Value 10=B5 SYMBOL current -288 352 R0 WINDOW 3 -23 169 Left 2 WINDOW 123 -30 139 Left 2 WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 2 SYMATTR Value 100n SYMATTR Value2 AC 20n SYMATTR InstName I1 SYMBOL res -416 512 R0 SYMATTR InstName R7 SYMATTR Value 22k SYMBOL res 160 512 R0 SYMATTR InstName R10 SYMATTR Value 2k SYMBOL res 144 496 R90 WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName R11 SYMATTR Value 100k SYMBOL cap 240 528 R0 SYMATTR InstName C10 SYMATTR Value 1=B5 SYMBOL res 304 528 R270 WINDOW 0 32 56 VTop 2 WINDOW 3 0 56 VBottom 2 SYMATTR InstName R6 SYMATTR Value 1k SYMBOL res 368 432 R270 WINDOW 0 32 56 VTop 2 WINDOW 3 0 56 VBottom 2 SYMATTR InstName R12 SYMATTR Value 1k SYMBOL npn -848 512 R0 SYMATTR InstName Q3 SYMATTR Value Mirror SYMBOL npn -992 512 M0 SYMATTR InstName Q4 SYMATTR Value Mirror SYMBOL res -1072 304 R0 WINDOW 3 28 1 Left 2 SYMATTR Value 150k SYMATTR InstName R2 SYMBOL Opamps\\opamp2 240 352 R0 SYMATTR InstName U1 SYMATTR Value OPA2140 SYMBOL schottky -48 96 R90 WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName D1 SYMATTR Value BAT54 SYMATTR Description Diode SYMATTR Type diode SYMBOL schottky 80 96 R90 WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName D2 SYMATTR Value BAT54 SYMATTR Description Diode SYMATTR Type diode TEXT -728 688 Left 2 !.options plotwinsize=3D0 vntol=3D1e-9 reltol=3D1e-8= numdgt=3D9 noopiter TEXT -256 736 Left 2 !.ac oct 30 1 100k TEXT 432 472 Left 2 !;.step dec param Iphoto 200p 200n 1 TEXT -72 376 Left 2 ;Strays TEXT -328 280 Left 2 ;Photodiode TEXT 408 560 Left 2 !.param Rbias 1500\n;.step param Rbias 500 2500 500 TEXT 664 528 Left 2 !.param Iphoto 2n\n;.step dec param Iphoto 200p 200n = 2 TEXT 368 240 Left 2 !.param betagrade 1\n.step param betagrade list 1 2 3= TEXT 400 312 Left 2 !.step temp 10 50 10 TEXT 368 128 Left 2 !.model 1 AKO:2SD2704K (BF=3D1260)\n.model 2 AKO:2SD2= 704K (BF=3D820)\n.model 3 AKO:2SD2704K (BF=3D2700)\n.model Mirror AKO:BCV= 61C_HALF TEXT 536 352 Left 2 !.param Cstray 2p\n;.step param Cstray list 1f 0.2p 0= =2E5p 1p 2p 5p TEXT -1000 784 Invisible 2 !.SUBCKT OPA2140 +IN -IN V+ V- Vout\n* ORIG= INALLY .SUBCKT OPA2140 -IN +IN V- V+ Vout\nVAM1 30 31\nV7 = 44 12 0\nVos 30 35 27U\nV11 58 59 100M\nV10 60 6= 1 100M\nV6 11 66 10\nV5 67 11 10\nV4 63 65 12\= nV1 64 62 12\nV9 78 13 3.5\nIS2 V+ 31 1P\nIS1 = V+ V- 1.8M\nIS3 40 V- -500F\nV3 83 11 36\nV2 = 11 84 30\nXU12 V- 31 IDEAL_D_0\nXU8 31 V+ IDEAL_D_0\n= R4 32 24 10M\nC7 33 34 6.5P\nC8 34 11 7P\nCinn= CM 11 33 7P\nXIn11 35 33 FEMT_0\nL2 36 11 10U\nXR109 = 27 11 RNOISE_FREE_0\nXR109_2 37 11 RNOISE_FREE_0\nXVn11 3= 4 35 VNSE_0\nXU14 38 11 39 40 VCVS_LIMIT_0\nL3 41 11 100U= \nR1 36 38 1\nGVCCS2 11 38 11 42 1\nXU13 12 43 IDEA= L_D_1\nEVCVS5 44 11 V- 11 1\nXR109_3 45 46 RNOISE_FREE_0\nL1 = 46 11 100M\nC11 37 11 150F\nXR109_4 26 11 RNOISE_FREE_= 1\nC1 11 47 63.9N\nEVCVS1 15 11 48 49 -1\nR38 47 5= 0 10\nVCCVS2_in 49 51\nHCCVS2 50 11 VCCVS2_in 1K\nXU9 47= 11 52 53 VARICAP_0\nXU7 47 11 49 54 VC_RES_0\nC25 15 52 = 100F\nR37 53 54 26.135MEG\nC24 15 14 90N\nR32 14 = 52 1.8K\nR31 52 54 100MEG\nR30 15 52 500K\nEVCVS2 54= 11 11 52 20MEG\nGVCCS12 11 27 37 11 1U\nXU5 16 11 V+ 17 VC= VS_LIMIT_1\nXU6 11 16 18 V- VCVS_LIMIT_2\nC15 V+ V- 10P\n= C22 11 23 1P\nR29 23 25 1\nC23 11 28 1P\nC9 = 55 11 10P\nR26 55 16 10\nC21 11 19 1P\nC20 11= 20 1P\nC19 21 11 1P\nC17 22 11 1P\nC16 11 56 1P\= nC12 57 11 1P\nR13 48 28 1\nSW14 14 15 19 11 S_VS= WITCH_1\nSW13 15 14 11 20 S_VSWITCH_2\nR36 28 61 1M\nR35 = 28 59 1M\nSW12 62 58 21 11 S_VSWITCH_3\nSW11 60 63= 11 22 S_VSWITCH_4\nR34 28 64 1K\nR33 28 65 1K\nSW10 = 67 25 23 11 S_VSWITCH_5\nSW9 25 66 11 23 S_VSWITCH_6\nR25 = 68 21 1\nR19 69 22 1\nR16 70 56 1\nR14 71 = 57 1\nR12 72 19 1\nR7 73 20 1\nR5 74 26 10M\nR6= 75 25 10M\nR15 0 11 100MEG\nC13 26 11 100F\nGVC= CS1 11 26 27 11 1M\nGIsinking V- 11 76 11 1M\nGIsourcing V+ 11 = 77 11 1M\nR23 76 11 10K\nSW7 16 76 55 11 S_VSWITCH_7\nR= 21 11 77 10K\nSW8 16 77 55 11 S_VSWITCH_8\nSW4 7= 5 72 19 11 S_VSWITCH_9\nSW3 73 75 11 20 S_VSWITCH_10\nXU3 = 63 29 73 11 VCVS_LIMIT_3\nXU1 62 29 72 11 VCVS_LIMIT_3\nSW2 = 32 68 21 11 S_VSWITCH_11\nSW1 69 32 11 22 S_VSWITCH_12\nE= VCVS6 78 11 V+ 11 1\nR22 79 43 100\nEVCVS4 79 11 31 11= 1\nXU2 43 13 IDEAL_D_1\nSW6 74 70 56 11 S_VSWITCH_13\n= SW5 71 74 11 57 S_VSWITCH_14\nXU26 43 40 11 80 VCCS_LIMIT= _0\nXU4 80 11 11 25 VCCS_LIMIT_1\nLPSR 81 11 100M\nXVCVSPS= RR 82 11 39 33 VCVS_LIMIT_4\nXU22 83 16 69 11 VCVS_LIMIT_5\nXU21= 84 16 68 11 VCVS_LIMIT_5\nXU20 18 Vout 70 11 VCVS_LIMIT_5\= nXU19 17 Vout 71 11 VCVS_LIMIT_6\nXU11 V- 40 IDEAL_D_0\nXU1= 0 40 V+ IDEAL_D_0\nC10 24 11 100F\nC5 27 11 1.00= 000000000000E-0016\nXR109_5 24 11 RNOISE_FREE_1\nGVCCS15 11 24 26= 11 1M\nGVCCS10 11 37 45 11 1U\nR20 +IN 34 100\nR18 = -IN 33 100\nGVCCS6 11 45 29 11 1U\nXR102 85 86 RNOISE_FREE_0= \nXR101 87 85 RNOISE_FREE_0\nC6 85 0 1\nXR105 29 11 = RNOISE_FREE_0\nXR104 25 11 RNOISE_FREE_2\nXR103 11 80 RNOISE_= FREE_0\nEVCVS34 11 0 85 0 1\nRPSR 81 82 1\nGVCCS11 11 82 = V+ V- 100N\nRCM 41 42 1\nEVCVS29 87 0 V+ 0 1\nEVCVS28 8= 6 0 V- 0 1\nGVCCS7 11 42 30 11 100N\nVCCVS1_in 51 Vout\nHCCVS1 = 16 11 VCCVS1_in 1K\nGVCCS5 11 29 25 11 1U\nCcc 25 11 = 7U\nEVCVS3 48 11 24 11 1\n.MODEL S_VSWITCH_1 VSWITCH (RON=3D1 ROFF=3D= 100MEG VON=3D100M VOFF=3D-100M )\n.MODEL S_VSWITCH_2 VSWITCH (RON=3D1 RO= FF=3D100MEG VON=3D100M VOFF=3D-100M )\n.MODEL S_VSWITCH_3 VSWITCH (RON=3D= 1 ROFF=3D10MEG VON=3D100M VOFF=3D-100M )\n.MODEL S_VSWITCH_4 VSWITCH (RON= =3D1 ROFF=3D10MEG VON=3D100M VOFF=3D-100M )\n.MODEL S_VSWITCH_5 VSWITCH (= RON=3D10M ROFF=3D100MEG VON=3D150 VOFF=3D5m )\n.MODEL S_VSWITCH_6 VSWITCH= (RON=3D10M ROFF=3D100MEG VON=3D150 VOFF=3D5m )\n.MODEL S_VSWITCH_7 VSWIT= CH (RON=3D1M ROFF=3D10MEG VON=3D-10M VOFF=3D5m )\n.MODEL S_VSWITCH_8 VSWI= TCH (RON=3D1M ROFF=3D10MEG VON=3D10M VOFF=3D5m )\n.MODEL S_VSWITCH_9 VSWI= TCH (RON=3D1 ROFF=3D10MEG VON=3D1 VOFF=3D-1 )\n.MODEL S_VSWITCH_10 VSWITC= H (RON=3D1 ROFF=3D10MEG VON=3D1 VOFF=3D-1 )\n.MODEL S_VSWITCH_11 VSWITCH = (RON=3D1 ROFF=3D1G VON=3D10 VOFF=3D-10 )\n.MODEL S_VSWITCH_12 VSWITCH (RO= N=3D1 ROFF=3D1G VON=3D10 VOFF=3D-10 )\n.MODEL S_VSWITCH_13 VSWITCH (RON=3D= 1 ROFF=3D1G VON=3D10 VOFF=3D-10 )\n.MODEL S_VSWITCH_14 VSWITCH (RON=3D1 R= OFF=3D1G VON=3D10 VOFF=3D-10 )\n.ENDS OPA2140\n*$\n \n*TG IDEAL DIODE\n.S= UBCKT IDEAL_D_0 A C\nD1 A C DNOM\n.MODEL DNOM D (TT=3D10P CJO=3D1E-18 IS= =3D1E-15 RS=3D1E-3)\n.ENDS IDEAL_D_0\n \n*$\n \n* BEGIN PROG NSE FEMTO AM= P/RT-HZ\n.SUBCKT FEMT_0 1 2\n* BEGIN SETUP OF NOISE GEN - FEMPTOAMPS/RT-= HZ\n* INPUT THREE VARIABLES\n* SET UP INSE 1/F\n* FA/RHZ AT 1/F FREQ\n.PA= RAM NLFF=3D.1\n* FREQ FOR 1/F VAL\n.PARAM FLWF=3D0.001\n* SET UP INSE FB\= n* FA/RHZ FLATBAND\n.PARAM NVRF=3D.1\n* END USER INPUT\n* START CALC VALS= \n.PARAM GLFF=3D{PWR(FLWF,0.25)*NLFF/1164}\n.PARAM RNVF=3D{1.184*PWR(NVRF= ,2)}\n.MODEL DVNF D KF=3D{PWR(FLWF,0.5)/1E11} IS=3D1.0E-16\n* END CALC VA= LS\nI1 0 7 10E-3\nI2 0 8 10E-3\nD1 7 0 DVNF\nD2 8 0 DVNF\nE1 3 6 7 8 {GLF= F}\nR1 3 0 1E9\nR2 3 0 1E9\nR3 3 6 1E9\nE2 6 4 5 0 10\nR4 5 0 {RNVF}\nR5 = 5 0 {RNVF}\nR6 3 4 1E9\nR7 4 0 1E9\nG1 1 2 3 4 1E-6\nC1 1 0 1E-15\nC2 2 0= 1E-15\nC3 1 2 1E-15\n.ENDS\n* END PROG NSE FEMTO AMP/RT-HZ\n \n*$\n \n* = NOISELESS RESISTOR\n.SUBCKT RNOISE_FREE_0 1 2\n*ROHMS =3D VALUE IN OHMS = OF NOISELESS RESISTOR\n.PARAM ROHMS=3D1E6\nERES 1 3 VALUE =3D { I(VSENSE)= * ROHMS }\nRDUMMY 30 3 1\nVSENSE 30 2 DC 0V\n.ENDS RNOISE_FREE_0\n \n*$\= n \n* BEGIN PROG NSE NANO VOLT/RT-HZ\n.SUBCKT VNSE_0 1 2\n* BEGIN SETUP = OF NOISE GEN - NANOVOLT/RT-HZ\n* INPUT THREE VARIABLES\n* SET UP VNSE 1/F= \n* NV/RHZ AT 1/F FREQ\n.PARAM NLF=3D18\n* FREQ FOR 1/F VAL\n.PARAM FLW=3D= 1\n* SET UP VNSE FB\n* NV/RHZ FLATBAND\n.PARAM NVR=3D4.6\n* END USER INPU= T\n* START CALC VALS\n.PARAM GLF=3D{PWR(FLW,0.25)*NLF/1164}\n.PARAM RNV=3D= {1.184*PWR(NVR,2)}\n.MODEL DVN D KF=3D{PWR(FLW,0.5)/1E11} IS=3D1.0E-16\n*= END CALC VALS\nI1 0 7 10E-3\nI2 0 8 10E-3\nD1 7 0 DVN\nD2 8 0 DVN\nE1 3 = 6 7 8 {GLF}\nR1 3 0 1E9\nR2 3 0 1E9\nR3 3 6 1E9\nE2 6 4 5 0 10\nR4 5 0 {R= NV}\nR5 5 0 {RNV}\nR6 3 4 1E9\nR7 4 0 1E9\nE3 1 2 3 4 1\nC1 1 0 1E-15\nC2= 2 0 1E-15\nC3 1 2 1E-15\n.ENDS\n* END PROG NSE NANOV/RT-HZ\n \n*$\n \n*V= OLTAGE CONTROLLED SOURCE WITH LIMITS\n.SUBCKT VCVS_LIMIT_0 VC+ VC- VOUT+= VOUT-\n*\n.PARAM GAIN =3D 1\n.PARAM VPOS =3D 10M\n.PARAM VNEG =3D -10M\n= E1 VOUT+ VOUT- VALUE=3D{LIMIT(GAIN*V(VC+,VC-),VPOS,VNEG)}\n.ENDS VCVS_LIM= IT_0\n \n*$\n \n*TG IDEAL DIODE\n.SUBCKT IDEAL_D_1 A C\nD1 A C DNOM\n.MO= DEL DNOM D (TT=3D10P CJO=3D1E-18 IS=3D1E-15 RS=3D1E-3)\n.ENDS IDEAL_D_1\n= \n*$\n \n* NOISELESS RESISTOR\n.SUBCKT RNOISE_FREE_1 1 2\n*ROHMS =3D VA= LUE IN OHMS OF NOISELESS RESISTOR\n.PARAM ROHMS=3D1E3\nERES 1 3 VALUE =3D= { I(VSENSE) * ROHMS }\nRDUMMY 30 3 1\nVSENSE 30 2 DC 0V\n.ENDS RNOISE_FR= EE_1\n \n*$\n \n*VARICAP (VOLTAGE-CONTROLLED CAPACITOR\n.SUBCKT VARICAP_0= 1 2 3 4\n*PINS VC+ VC- CAP+ CAP-\nR1 3 10 1U\nVC 10 20 0\nEC 20 4= VALUE =3D {(1/(((ABS(V(1,2))*(-2.08)+204.636))))*V(INT)*1000000000000000= 00}\nGINT 0 INT VALUE =3D {I(VC)}\nCINT INT 0 1\n********* Add large R fr= om INT to gnd\nRINT INT 0 1e9\n.ENDS VARICAP_0\n \n*$\n \n*VOLTAGE CONTRO= LLED RESISTOR\n.SUBCKT VC_RES_0 1 2 3 4\n* VC+= VC- RES1 RES2\nERES 3 40 VALUE =3D {(I(VSENSE) * (ABS(V(1,2))*ABS(V= (1,2))*0.000352-0.02359*ABS(V(1,2))+0.5922))*140000*24200*50*2/414500}\nV= SENSE 40 4 DC 0\n.ENDS VC_RES_0\n \n*$\n \n*VOLTAGE CONTROLLED SOURCE WIT= H LIMITS\n.SUBCKT VCVS_LIMIT_1 VC+ VC- VOUT+ VOUT-\n*\n*$\nE1 VOUT+ VOUT= - TABLE {ABS(V(VC+,VC-))} =3D (0,0.2) (10,0.25) 25,0.4) (35.9,0.6)\n.ENDS= VCVS_LIMIT_1\n \n*$\n \n*VOLTAGE CONTROLLED SOURCE WITH LIMITS\n.SUBCKT = VCVS_LIMIT_2 VC+ VC- VOUT+ VOUT-\n*\nE1 VOUT+ VOUT- TABLE {ABS(V(VC+,VC-= ))} =3D (0,0.2) (10,0.25) (20,0.35) (29,0.5)\n.ENDS VCVS_LIMIT_2\n \n*$\n= \n*VOLTAGE CONTROLLED SOURCE WITH LIMITS\n.SUBCKT VCVS_LIMIT_3 VC+ VC- = VOUT+ VOUT-\n*\n.PARAM GAIN =3D 100\n.PARAM VPOS =3D 6000\n.PARAM VNEG =3D= -6000\nE1 VOUT+ VOUT- VALUE=3D{LIMIT(GAIN*V(VC+,VC-),VPOS,VNEG)}\n.ENDS = VCVS_LIMIT_3\n \n*$\n \n*VOLTAGE CONTROLLED SOURCE WITH LIMITS\n.SUBCKT V= CCS_LIMIT_0 VC+ VC- IOUT+ IOUT-\n*\n.PARAM GAIN =3D 100U\n.PARAM IPOS =3D= .5\n.PARAM INEG =3D -.5\nG1 IOUT+ IOUT- VALUE=3D{LIMIT(GAIN*V(VC+,VC-),I= POS,INEG)}\n.ENDS VCCS_LIMIT_0\n \n*$\n \n*VOLTAGE CONTROLLED SOURCE WITH= LIMITS\n.SUBCKT VCCS_LIMIT_1 VC+ VC- IOUT+ IOUT-\n*\n.PARAM GAIN =3D 5\= n.PARAM IPOS =3D 140\n.PARAM INEG =3D -140\nG1 IOUT+ IOUT- VALUE=3D{LIMIT= (GAIN*V(VC+,VC-),IPOS,INEG)}\n.ENDS VCCS_LIMIT_1\n \n*$\n \n*VOLTAGE CONT= ROLLED SOURCE WITH LIMITS\n.SUBCKT VCVS_LIMIT_4 VC+ VC- VOUT+ VOUT-\n*\n= =2EPARAM GAIN =3D -1\n.PARAM VPOS =3D 10M\n.PARAM VNEG =3D -10M\nE1 VOUT+= VOUT- VALUE=3D{LIMIT(GAIN*V(VC+,VC-),VPOS,VNEG)}\n.ENDS VCVS_LIMIT_4\n \= n*$\n \n*VOLTAGE CONTROLLED SOURCE WITH LIMITS\n.SUBCKT VCVS_LIMIT_5 VC+= VC- VOUT+ VOUT-\n*\n.PARAM GAIN =3D 100\n.PARAM VPOS =3D 5000\n.PARAM VN= EG =3D -5000\nE1 VOUT+ VOUT- VALUE=3D{LIMIT(GAIN*V(VC+,VC-),VPOS,VNEG)}\n= =2EENDS VCVS_LIMIT_5\n \n*$\n \n*VOLTAGE CONTROLLED SOURCE WITH LIMITS\n.= SUBCKT VCVS_LIMIT_6 VC+ VC- VOUT+ VOUT-\n*\n.PARAM GAIN =3D 100\n.PARAM = VPOS =3D 5000\n.PARAM VNEG =3D -5000\nE1 VOUT+ VOUT- VALUE=3D{LIMIT(GAIN*= V(VC+,VC-),VPOS,VNEG)}\n.ENDS VCVS_LIMIT_6\n \n*$\n \n* NOISELESS RESISTO= R\n.SUBCKT RNOISE_FREE_2 1 2\n*ROHMS =3D VALUE IN OHMS OF NOISELESS RESI= STOR\n.PARAM ROHMS=3D1E4\nERES 1 3 VALUE =3D { I(VSENSE) * ROHMS }\nRDUMM= Y 30 3 1\nVSENSE 30 2 DC 0V\n.ENDS RNOISE_FREE_2\n \n*$\n \n* source ADA4= 899\n.SUBCKT ADA4899 NINV INV VCC VEE OUT\n* Hacked by PH to fit LTSPIC= E opamp2 symbol\n* Version 0602192\n* Generated by Interface Technologies= \n* www.i-t.com\n*\nI_I1 4 VEE_INT DC 1e-2\nD_D_VEEclamp = VEEVNBAT 10 DN\nR_RP3 MAINP2 100 RCOLD 1\nI_I4 100 ISUPP2= DC .6m\nR_RCM2 VINMID INV RCOLD 1000MEG\nD_DN1 35 36 DEN= \nQ_Q2 6 INV 8 NPN\nR_RCMR1 CMR_SET 100 RCOLD 1\nD_D9 = ISUPP2 VEE DNOM\nG_G2 100 10A 10 100 1\nR_Rout 80 81= RCOLD 30\nD_DN4 94 95 DIN\nE_E1 100 0 103 0 1\nE_E4 = VCC_INT 0 VCC 0 1\nG_GV 100 15 6 5 1\nV_VL1 82 81 .08= 9\nL_LCM 31 30 5.1931e-4\nG_GN1 0 NINV 94 0 0.7e-6\nV_VN= 3 0 93 2\nI_I2 ISUPP1 100 DC .6m\nR_RP1 10 100 RC= OLD 1.31e6\nE_E5 VEE_INT 0 VEE 0 1\nD_D11 83 MAINP2 DILIM= \nE_DIFF1 CMRERR 0 VALUE {V(CMR_SET,VINMID)}\nD_DN5 96 97= DIN\nC_CCM3 100 CMRRP2 1.8e-9\nR_R4 100 ISUPP2 RCOLD 10= meg\nE_E7 CMR_SET 100 VALUE { Limit(V(VINMID, 100), -3.7, 3.7) }\= nE_ENIN N265500 N265385 36 0 3.5e-10\nV_VN5 0 96 2\nR_RCM= 4 CMRR_V 100 RCOLD 1\nL_LCM1 N298875 CMRRP1 3.899e-8\nE_= EOS1 NINV N264552 POLY(1) CMRERR 100 0.0 0\nC_COPOUT 100 = 81 2p\nR_R3 ISUPP1 100 RCOLD 10meg\nR_RE1 7 4 RCOLD 10\n= V_VN2 37 0 3Vdc\nC_CP1 100 10 4.0e-12\nR_RCM1b 3= 1 100 RCOLD 4\nG_G3a 100 MAINP2 10A 100 1\nR_R5 100 CMRER= R RCOLD 1k\nG_G10 0 INV 97 0 0\nL_Lout OUT 81 .011f\nV_V= N6 98 0 2\nR_R6 CMRRP1 N298875 RCOLD 4\nR_RCM2a N= 298875 100 RCOLD 1\nR_RC2 VCC_INT 6 RCOLD 15.17\nG_G4 100= ISUPP2 80 81 -.033\nD_D10 MAINP2 82 DILIM\nR_RCM3 CMRRP2= 100 RCOLD 1\nC_CP2 100 10A 2.27e-10\nD_DN2 36 37 DEN\nQ= _Q1 5 N265500 7 NPN\nD_D8 VCC ISUPP1 DNOM\nG_G8 1= 00 CMRR_V CMRRP2 100 1\nD_DN6 97 98 DIN\nC_CP3 100 MAINP2= 2.27e-10\nG_G7 100 CMRRP2 CMRRP1 100 1\nR_RC1 VCC_INT 5= RCOLD 15.17\nD_D7 ISUPP2 100 DZ\nG_G1 100 10 15 100 1e-4= \nV_VP VCC_INT VCCVPBAT 1.68\nG_G6 100 CMRRP1 30 100 1\nD= _DN3 93 94 DIN\nR_RV 15 100 RCOLD 100\nE_EBUF 80 = 100 MAINP2 100 1\nR_RCM1 NINV VINMID RCOLD 1000MEG\nD_DZ1 = 15 16 DLIM\nR_RE2 8 4 RCOLD 10\nD_D6 100 ISUPP1 DZ\nC_CC= M4 100 CMRR_V 1.8e-9\nD_D_VCCclamp 10 VCCVPBAT DP\nV_VL2= 81 83 .089\nV_VN1 0 35 3Vdc\nE_E8 103 VEE_INT VA= LUE { (V(VCC_INT)-V(VEE_INT))/2 }\nR_RCM2b 30 31 RCOLD 1.56e7\nV_= VN VEEVNBAT VEE_INT 1.68\nD_DZ2 100 16 DLIM\nE_EOS = N264552 N265385 POLY(1) CMRR_V 100 0.0 0\nG_G5 100 30 VINMID 10= 0 9.162e-8\nG_G3 ISUPP1 100 80 81 .033\nV_VN4 95 0 2\nR_R= P2 10A 100 RCOLD 1\n.MODEL DLIM D(IS=3D1E-15 BV=3D13.22)\n.MODEL = DEN D(IS=3D1E-9 RS=3D1000 KF=3D1.5E-12 AF=3D.89)\n.MODEL DIN D(IS=3D.85= E-9 RS=3D1 KF=3D1.5E-17 AF=3D.92)\n.MODEL DNOM D(IS=3D1E-15 T_ABS=3D-= 100)\n.MODEL DZ D(IS=3D1E-15 BV=3D50 T_ABS=3D-100)\n.MODEL RCOLD = RES T_ABS=3D-273\n.MODEL DILIM D(IS=3D1E-15)\n.MODEL NPN NPN(BF=3D8.= 33e2 )\n.MODEL DP D(IS=3D5E-10 BV=3D700 )\n.MODEL DN D(IS=3D5= E-10 BV=3D700 )\n.MODEL DCMRP D(IS=3D1E-15 BV=3D2)\n.MODEL DCMRM D(IS=3D1= E-15 BV=3D4.6)\n.ENDS TEXT -1016 776 Left 2 !.model BF862J NJF(Beta=3D47.800E-3 Betatce=3D-.5 R= d=3D.8 Rs=3D7.5000 Lambda=3D37.300E-3 Vto=3D-.57093\n+ Vtotc=3D-2.0000E-3= Is=3D424.60E-12 Isr=3D2.995p N=3D1 Nr=3D2 Xti=3D3 Alpha=3D-1.0000E-3\n+ = Vk=3D59.97 Cgd=3D7.4002E-12 M=3D.6015 Pb=3D.5 Fc=3D.5 Cgs=3D8.2890E-12 Kf= =3D87.5E-18\n+ Af=3D1)\n \n* Same with more realistic leakage\n.model BF8= 62_1pA ako:BF862J Isr=3D6e-15 Is=3D6e-15;\n.model BF862_25mA ako:BF862J B= eta=3D150.0E-3;\n.model BF862_10mA ako:BF862J Beta=3D37.0E-3; TEXT -992 -104 Invisible 2 !.MODEL BCV61C_HALF NPN\n+ IS =3D 1.822E-1= 4\n+ NF =3D 0.9932\n+ ISE =3D 2.894E-16\n+ NE =3D 1.4\n+ = BF =3D 324.4\n+ IKF =3D 0.109\n+ VAF =3D 82\n+ NR =3D 0.9931\= n+ ISC =3D 9.982E-12\n+ NC =3D 1.763\n+ BR =3D 8.29\n+ IK= R =3D 0.09\n+ VAR =3D 17.9\n+ RB =3D 10\n+ IRB =3D 5E-06\n+ = RBM =3D 5\n+ RE =3D 0.649\n+ RC =3D 0.7014\n+ XTB =3D 0\n+= EG =3D 1.11\n+ XTI =3D 3\n+ CJE =3D 1.244E-11\n+ VJE =3D= 0.7579\n+ MJE =3D 0.3656\n+ TF =3D 4.908E-10\n+ XTF =3D 9.51= \n+ VTF =3D 2.927\n+ ITF =3D 0.3131\n+ PTF =3D 0\n+ CJC =3D= 3.347E-12\n+ VJC =3D 0.5463\n+ MJC =3D 0.391\n+ XCJC =3D 0.6= 193\n+ TR =3D 9E-08\n+ CJS =3D 0\n+ VJS =3D 0.75\n+ MJS =3D= 0.333\n+ FC =3D 0.979 TEXT -296 -144 Invisible 2 !.MODEL 2SD2704K NPN\n+ IS=3D250.00E-15\n+ BF=3D= 2.3219E3\n+ VAF=3D100\n+ IKF=3D25.778E-3\n+ ISE=3D270.34E-15\n+ NE=3D1.80= 69\n+ BR=3D45.088\n+ VAR=3D100\n+ IKR=3D9.4796\n+ ISC=3D411.09E-15\n+ NC=3D= 2.0254\n+ NK=3D.54182\n+ RE=3D.4\n+ RB=3D3.1823\n+ RC=3D58.585E-3\n+ CJE=3D= 8.7706E-12\n+ MJE=3D.66324\n+ CJC=3D15.709E-12\n+ MJC=3D.53302\n+ TF=3D3.= 8352E-9\n+ XTF=3D32.147\n+ VTF=3D472.13\n+ ITF=3D85.294\n+ TR=3D7.0574E-9= \n+ XTB=3D1.5000 RECTANGLE Normal 16 528 -128 352 2 RECTANGLE Normal -128 496 -336 304 2 --------------050108030007050102040404--
AN: TL598 Spice Model
Started by ●August 9, 2015
Reply by ●August 10, 20152015-08-10
Reply by ●August 10, 20152015-08-10
On Mon, 10 Aug 2015 12:45:19 -0400, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:>On 8/10/2015 12:40 PM, Phil Hobbs wrote: >> On 8/10/2015 12:01 PM, Jim Thompson wrote: >>> On Mon, 10 Aug 2015 11:40:42 -0400, Phil Hobbs >>> <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote: >>> >>>> On 08/10/2015 11:03 AM, Jim Thompson wrote: >>>>> On Sun, 9 Aug 2015 16:24:53 -0700 (PDT), Phil Hobbs >>>>> <pcdhobbs@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi, Jim, >>>>>> >>>>>> If you've got some spare bandwidth, I could really use an improved >>>>>> OPA2140 model. >>>>>> >>>>>> It's a very good part for moderate speed, low current, high >>>>>> linearity TIAs, but it's a bear to simulate because the model won't >>>>>> converge on an operating point in LTspice. >>>>>> >>>>>> I took the TINA model TI supplies and replaced the VSWITCH cards >>>>>> with LTspice SW cards with negative hysteresis (more or less like >>>>>> your fave tanh curve), but it still won't converge on ac or noise >>>>>> sims. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks >>>>>> >>>>>> Phil Hobbs >>>>> >>>>> Took a quicky peek at the PSpice OPA2140 model... it doesn't like to >>>>> queue up with input starting at rail... so I'm guessing all that >>>>> switch crap is swing limiting... but works just fine from zero +/- >>>>> >>>>> I did an AC at +/-5V supplies... shows serious feed-thru starting just >>>>> above 60MHz. >>>>> >>>>> How are you using it, and what do you need modeled? >>>>> >>>>> What are your conditions when you have convergence issues? >>>>> >>>>> Could be that a significantly simplified model would serve your >>>>> purpose? >>>>> >>>>> ...Jim Thompson >>>>> >>>> >>>> I'm using it for single-supply TIAs--it has a unique combination of >>>> decent speed, low noise, low input current, RR output, and guaranteed >>>> CMR goes below ground. >>> >>> RR Output is actually 0.2V above negative rail. So, to use CMR fully, >>> you need to queue-up feedback so that output stays 0.2V away from >>> negative rail. >> >> Doesn't work for me even with V_EE = -3V. It does start up when the >> supplies are close to symmetrical about the inputs. >>> >>>> >>>> I can't get it to converge on an operating point with the supply turned >>>> on at t=0, so no AC or noise analyses are possible. How exactly did you >>>> set it up? >>>> >>>> I know it'll work in real life, but I'm not too happy having to sub a >>>> TL072 with an auxiliary negative supply--takes extra explaining to the >>>> customer, so a decent model would be great. >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> >>>> Phil Hobbs >>> >>> Can send me your schematic (as used)? >>> >>> ...Jim Thompson >>> >> Sure. It's kind of an interesting one--very low power for a bootstrap >> (5 mW) due to sample heating limitations in a portable instrument. It >> uses shunt feedback like the PNP wraparound trick, but upside down, >> which saves a transistor and about halves the operating current. > >Here's the same file as an attachment, for those whose news servers >support them. > >Cheers > >Phil HobbsGot it... BUT... text obscures schematic... I've sent you an E-mail. ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson | mens | | Analog Innovations | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Reply by ●August 10, 20152015-08-10
On Mon, 10 Aug 2015 10:20:16 -0700, Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:>On Mon, 10 Aug 2015 12:45:19 -0400, Phil Hobbs ><pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote: > >>On 8/10/2015 12:40 PM, Phil Hobbs wrote: >>> On 8/10/2015 12:01 PM, Jim Thompson wrote: >>>> On Mon, 10 Aug 2015 11:40:42 -0400, Phil Hobbs >>>> <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 08/10/2015 11:03 AM, Jim Thompson wrote: >>>>>> On Sun, 9 Aug 2015 16:24:53 -0700 (PDT), Phil Hobbs >>>>>> <pcdhobbs@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi, Jim, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If you've got some spare bandwidth, I could really use an improved >>>>>>> OPA2140 model. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It's a very good part for moderate speed, low current, high >>>>>>> linearity TIAs, but it's a bear to simulate because the model won't >>>>>>> converge on an operating point in LTspice. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I took the TINA model TI supplies and replaced the VSWITCH cards >>>>>>> with LTspice SW cards with negative hysteresis (more or less like >>>>>>> your fave tanh curve), but it still won't converge on ac or noise >>>>>>> sims. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Phil Hobbs >>>>>> >>>>>> Took a quicky peek at the PSpice OPA2140 model... it doesn't like to >>>>>> queue up with input starting at rail... so I'm guessing all that >>>>>> switch crap is swing limiting... but works just fine from zero +/- >>>>>> >>>>>> I did an AC at +/-5V supplies... shows serious feed-thru starting just >>>>>> above 60MHz. >>>>>> >>>>>> How are you using it, and what do you need modeled? >>>>>> >>>>>> What are your conditions when you have convergence issues? >>>>>> >>>>>> Could be that a significantly simplified model would serve your >>>>>> purpose? >>>>>> >>>>>> ...Jim Thompson >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I'm using it for single-supply TIAs--it has a unique combination of >>>>> decent speed, low noise, low input current, RR output, and guaranteed >>>>> CMR goes below ground. >>>> >>>> RR Output is actually 0.2V above negative rail. So, to use CMR fully, >>>> you need to queue-up feedback so that output stays 0.2V away from >>>> negative rail. >>> >>> Doesn't work for me even with V_EE = -3V. It does start up when the >>> supplies are close to symmetrical about the inputs. >>>> >>>>> >>>>> I can't get it to converge on an operating point with the supply turned >>>>> on at t=0, so no AC or noise analyses are possible. How exactly did you >>>>> set it up? >>>>> >>>>> I know it'll work in real life, but I'm not too happy having to sub a >>>>> TL072 with an auxiliary negative supply--takes extra explaining to the >>>>> customer, so a decent model would be great. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks >>>>> >>>>> Phil Hobbs >>>> >>>> Can send me your schematic (as used)? >>>> >>>> ...Jim Thompson >>>> >>> Sure. It's kind of an interesting one--very low power for a bootstrap >>> (5 mW) due to sample heating limitations in a portable instrument. It >>> uses shunt feedback like the PNP wraparound trick, but upside down, >>> which saves a transistor and about halves the operating current. >> >>Here's the same file as an attachment, for those whose news servers >>support them. >> >>Cheers >> >>Phil Hobbs > >Got it... BUT... text obscures schematic... I've sent you an E-mail. > > ...Jim ThompsonNevermind, I managed to move the text out of the way. You need to learn how to use .INC >:-} ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson | mens | | Analog Innovations | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Reply by ●August 10, 20152015-08-10
On Sun, 9 Aug 2015 16:24:53 -0700 (PDT), Phil Hobbs <pcdhobbs@gmail.com> wrote:>Hi, Jim, > >If you've got some spare bandwidth, I could really use an improved OPA2140 model. > >It's a very good part for moderate speed, low current, high linearity TIAs, but it's a bear to simulate because the model won't converge on an operating point in LTspice. > > I took the TINA model TI supplies and replaced the VSWITCH cards with LTspice SW cards with negative hysteresis (more or less like your fave tanh curve), but it still won't converge on ac or noise sims. > >Thanks > >Phil HobbsWhere does node "zero" go? PSpice wouldn't allow a dangling node like that. ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson | mens | | Analog Innovations | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Reply by ●August 10, 20152015-08-10
On 08/10/2015 01:20 PM, Jim Thompson wrote:> On Mon, 10 Aug 2015 12:45:19 -0400, Phil Hobbs > <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote: > >> On 8/10/2015 12:40 PM, Phil Hobbs wrote: >>> On 8/10/2015 12:01 PM, Jim Thompson wrote: >>>> On Mon, 10 Aug 2015 11:40:42 -0400, Phil Hobbs >>>> <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 08/10/2015 11:03 AM, Jim Thompson wrote: >>>>>> On Sun, 9 Aug 2015 16:24:53 -0700 (PDT), Phil Hobbs >>>>>> <pcdhobbs@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi, Jim, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If you've got some spare bandwidth, I could really use an improved >>>>>>> OPA2140 model. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It's a very good part for moderate speed, low current, high >>>>>>> linearity TIAs, but it's a bear to simulate because the model won't >>>>>>> converge on an operating point in LTspice. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I took the TINA model TI supplies and replaced the VSWITCH cards >>>>>>> with LTspice SW cards with negative hysteresis (more or less like >>>>>>> your fave tanh curve), but it still won't converge on ac or noise >>>>>>> sims. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Phil Hobbs >>>>>> >>>>>> Took a quicky peek at the PSpice OPA2140 model... it doesn't like to >>>>>> queue up with input starting at rail... so I'm guessing all that >>>>>> switch crap is swing limiting... but works just fine from zero +/- >>>>>> >>>>>> I did an AC at +/-5V supplies... shows serious feed-thru starting just >>>>>> above 60MHz. >>>>>> >>>>>> How are you using it, and what do you need modeled? >>>>>> >>>>>> What are your conditions when you have convergence issues? >>>>>> >>>>>> Could be that a significantly simplified model would serve your >>>>>> purpose? >>>>>> >>>>>> ...Jim Thompson >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I'm using it for single-supply TIAs--it has a unique combination of >>>>> decent speed, low noise, low input current, RR output, and guaranteed >>>>> CMR goes below ground. >>>> >>>> RR Output is actually 0.2V above negative rail. So, to use CMR fully, >>>> you need to queue-up feedback so that output stays 0.2V away from >>>> negative rail. >>> >>> Doesn't work for me even with V_EE = -3V. It does start up when the >>> supplies are close to symmetrical about the inputs. >>>> >>>>> >>>>> I can't get it to converge on an operating point with the supply turned >>>>> on at t=0, so no AC or noise analyses are possible. How exactly did you >>>>> set it up? >>>>> >>>>> I know it'll work in real life, but I'm not too happy having to sub a >>>>> TL072 with an auxiliary negative supply--takes extra explaining to the >>>>> customer, so a decent model would be great. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks >>>>> >>>>> Phil Hobbs >>>> >>>> Can send me your schematic (as used)? >>>> >>>> ...Jim Thompson >>>> >>> Sure. It's kind of an interesting one--very low power for a bootstrap >>> (5 mW) due to sample heating limitations in a portable instrument. It >>> uses shunt feedback like the PNP wraparound trick, but upside down, >>> which saves a transistor and about halves the operating current. >> >> Here's the same file as an attachment, for those whose news servers >> support them. >> >> Cheers >> >> Phil Hobbs > > Got it... BUT... text obscures schematic... I've sent you an E-mail. > > ...Jim Thompson >Just right-click and set it to invisible. Cheers Phil Hobbs -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics 160 North State Road #203 Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 hobbs at electrooptical dot net http://electrooptical.net
Reply by ●August 10, 20152015-08-10
On 08/10/2015 01:23 PM, Jim Thompson wrote:> On Mon, 10 Aug 2015 10:20:16 -0700, Jim Thompson > <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote: > >> On Mon, 10 Aug 2015 12:45:19 -0400, Phil Hobbs >> <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote: >> >>> On 8/10/2015 12:40 PM, Phil Hobbs wrote: >>>> On 8/10/2015 12:01 PM, Jim Thompson wrote: >>>>> On Mon, 10 Aug 2015 11:40:42 -0400, Phil Hobbs >>>>> <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On 08/10/2015 11:03 AM, Jim Thompson wrote: >>>>>>> On Sun, 9 Aug 2015 16:24:53 -0700 (PDT), Phil Hobbs >>>>>>> <pcdhobbs@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi, Jim, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If you've got some spare bandwidth, I could really use an improved >>>>>>>> OPA2140 model. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It's a very good part for moderate speed, low current, high >>>>>>>> linearity TIAs, but it's a bear to simulate because the model won't >>>>>>>> converge on an operating point in LTspice. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I took the TINA model TI supplies and replaced the VSWITCH cards >>>>>>>> with LTspice SW cards with negative hysteresis (more or less like >>>>>>>> your fave tanh curve), but it still won't converge on ac or noise >>>>>>>> sims. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Phil Hobbs >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Took a quicky peek at the PSpice OPA2140 model... it doesn't like to >>>>>>> queue up with input starting at rail... so I'm guessing all that >>>>>>> switch crap is swing limiting... but works just fine from zero +/- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I did an AC at +/-5V supplies... shows serious feed-thru starting just >>>>>>> above 60MHz. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> How are you using it, and what do you need modeled? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What are your conditions when you have convergence issues? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Could be that a significantly simplified model would serve your >>>>>>> purpose? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ...Jim Thompson >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm using it for single-supply TIAs--it has a unique combination of >>>>>> decent speed, low noise, low input current, RR output, and guaranteed >>>>>> CMR goes below ground. >>>>> >>>>> RR Output is actually 0.2V above negative rail. So, to use CMR fully, >>>>> you need to queue-up feedback so that output stays 0.2V away from >>>>> negative rail. >>>> >>>> Doesn't work for me even with V_EE = -3V. It does start up when the >>>> supplies are close to symmetrical about the inputs. >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I can't get it to converge on an operating point with the supply turned >>>>>> on at t=0, so no AC or noise analyses are possible. How exactly did you >>>>>> set it up? >>>>>> >>>>>> I know it'll work in real life, but I'm not too happy having to sub a >>>>>> TL072 with an auxiliary negative supply--takes extra explaining to the >>>>>> customer, so a decent model would be great. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks >>>>>> >>>>>> Phil Hobbs >>>>> >>>>> Can send me your schematic (as used)? >>>>> >>>>> ...Jim Thompson >>>>> >>>> Sure. It's kind of an interesting one--very low power for a bootstrap >>>> (5 mW) due to sample heating limitations in a portable instrument. It >>>> uses shunt feedback like the PNP wraparound trick, but upside down, >>>> which saves a transistor and about halves the operating current. >>> >>> Here's the same file as an attachment, for those whose news servers >>> support them. >>> >>> Cheers >>> >>> Phil Hobbs >> >> Got it... BUT... text obscures schematic... I've sent you an E-mail. >> >> ...Jim Thompson > > Nevermind, I managed to move the text out of the way. > > You need to learn how to use .INC >:-} > > ...Jim Thompson >I have a personal library, phparts.lib, that I normally include, but I stick the models in the .asc file for customers. (When I'm being fancy I pay more attention to where I put them, and often use a text editor to make all the model text land on top of itself, which keeps it out of the way.) Cheers Phil Hobbs -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics 160 North State Road #203 Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 hobbs at electrooptical dot net http://electrooptical.net
Reply by ●August 10, 20152015-08-10
On 08/10/2015 02:26 PM, Jim Thompson wrote:> On Sun, 9 Aug 2015 16:24:53 -0700 (PDT), Phil Hobbs > <pcdhobbs@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hi, Jim, >> >> If you've got some spare bandwidth, I could really use an improved OPA2140 model. >> >> It's a very good part for moderate speed, low current, high linearity TIAs, but it's a bear to simulate because the model won't converge on an operating point in LTspice. >> >> I took the TINA model TI supplies and replaced the VSWITCH cards with LTspice SW cards with negative hysteresis (more or less like your fave tanh curve), but it still won't converge on ac or noise sims. >> >> Thanks >> >> Phil Hobbs > > Where does node "zero" go? PSpice wouldn't allow a dangling node like > that. > > ...Jim Thompson >It goes to a connector, and eventually to a differential ADC with node Out. Cheers Phil Hobbs -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics 160 North State Road #203 Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 hobbs at electrooptical dot net http://electrooptical.net
Reply by ●August 10, 20152015-08-10
On Mon, 10 Aug 2015 14:44:11 -0400, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:>On 08/10/2015 01:23 PM, Jim Thompson wrote: >> On Mon, 10 Aug 2015 10:20:16 -0700, Jim Thompson >> <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote: >> >>> On Mon, 10 Aug 2015 12:45:19 -0400, Phil Hobbs >>> <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote: >>> >>>> On 8/10/2015 12:40 PM, Phil Hobbs wrote: >>>>> On 8/10/2015 12:01 PM, Jim Thompson wrote: >>>>>> On Mon, 10 Aug 2015 11:40:42 -0400, Phil Hobbs >>>>>> <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 08/10/2015 11:03 AM, Jim Thompson wrote: >>>>>>>> On Sun, 9 Aug 2015 16:24:53 -0700 (PDT), Phil Hobbs >>>>>>>> <pcdhobbs@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi, Jim, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If you've got some spare bandwidth, I could really use an improved >>>>>>>>> OPA2140 model. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> It's a very good part for moderate speed, low current, high >>>>>>>>> linearity TIAs, but it's a bear to simulate because the model won't >>>>>>>>> converge on an operating point in LTspice. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I took the TINA model TI supplies and replaced the VSWITCH cards >>>>>>>>> with LTspice SW cards with negative hysteresis (more or less like >>>>>>>>> your fave tanh curve), but it still won't converge on ac or noise >>>>>>>>> sims. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Phil Hobbs >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Took a quicky peek at the PSpice OPA2140 model... it doesn't like to >>>>>>>> queue up with input starting at rail... so I'm guessing all that >>>>>>>> switch crap is swing limiting... but works just fine from zero +/- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I did an AC at +/-5V supplies... shows serious feed-thru starting just >>>>>>>> above 60MHz. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> How are you using it, and what do you need modeled? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> What are your conditions when you have convergence issues? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Could be that a significantly simplified model would serve your >>>>>>>> purpose? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ...Jim Thompson >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm using it for single-supply TIAs--it has a unique combination of >>>>>>> decent speed, low noise, low input current, RR output, and guaranteed >>>>>>> CMR goes below ground. >>>>>> >>>>>> RR Output is actually 0.2V above negative rail. So, to use CMR fully, >>>>>> you need to queue-up feedback so that output stays 0.2V away from >>>>>> negative rail. >>>>> >>>>> Doesn't work for me even with V_EE = -3V. It does start up when the >>>>> supplies are close to symmetrical about the inputs. >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I can't get it to converge on an operating point with the supply turned >>>>>>> on at t=0, so no AC or noise analyses are possible. How exactly did you >>>>>>> set it up? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I know it'll work in real life, but I'm not too happy having to sub a >>>>>>> TL072 with an auxiliary negative supply--takes extra explaining to the >>>>>>> customer, so a decent model would be great. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Phil Hobbs >>>>>> >>>>>> Can send me your schematic (as used)? >>>>>> >>>>>> ...Jim Thompson >>>>>> >>>>> Sure. It's kind of an interesting one--very low power for a bootstrap >>>>> (5 mW) due to sample heating limitations in a portable instrument. It >>>>> uses shunt feedback like the PNP wraparound trick, but upside down, >>>>> which saves a transistor and about halves the operating current. >>>> >>>> Here's the same file as an attachment, for those whose news servers >>>> support them. >>>> >>>> Cheers >>>> >>>> Phil Hobbs >>> >>> Got it... BUT... text obscures schematic... I've sent you an E-mail. >>> >>> ...Jim Thompson >> >> Nevermind, I managed to move the text out of the way. >> >> You need to learn how to use .INC >:-} >> >> ...Jim Thompson >> >I have a personal library, phparts.lib, that I normally include, but I >stick the models in the .asc file for customers. (When I'm being fancy >I pay more attention to where I put them, and often use a text editor to >make all the model text land on top of itself, which keeps it out of the >way.) > >Cheers > >Phil HobbsFor customers I just do... .LIB YourParts.lib (that's all that shows on the schematic) Then place YourParts.lib along with the .ASC and any .ASY's that are unusual into zipfile. ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson | mens | | Analog Innovations | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Reply by ●August 10, 20152015-08-10
On Sunday, August 9, 2015 at 7:25:05 PM UTC-4, Phil Hobbs wrote:> Hi, Jim, > > If you've got some spare bandwidth, I could really use an improved OPA2140 model. > > It's a very good part for moderate speed, low current, high linearity TIAs, but it's a bear to simulate because the model won't converge on an operating point in LTspice. > > I took the TINA model TI supplies and replaced the VSWITCH cards with LTspice SW cards with negative hysteresis (more or less like your fave tanh curve), but it still won't converge on ac or noise sims. > > Thanks > > Phil HobbsHey that is a nice opamp. I'll get some and try them in a PD circuit. It currently uses an opa124, which looks OK (well slow) but has a nasty noise peak out at 20 kHz (or so). George H.
Reply by ●August 10, 20152015-08-10
On 08/10/2015 04:22 PM, George Herold wrote:> On Sunday, August 9, 2015 at 7:25:05 PM UTC-4, Phil Hobbs wrote: >> Hi, Jim, >> >> If you've got some spare bandwidth, I could really use an improved >> OPA2140 model. >> >> It's a very good part for moderate speed, low current, high >> linearity TIAs, but it's a bear to simulate because the model won't >> converge on an operating point in LTspice. >> >> I took the TINA model TI supplies and replaced the VSWITCH cards >> with LTspice SW cards with negative hysteresis (more or less like >> your fave tanh curve), but it still won't converge on ac or noise >> sims. >> >> Thanks >> >> Phil Hobbs > > Hey that is a nice opamp. I'll get some and try them in a PD > circuit. It currently uses an opa124, which looks OK (well slow) but > has a nasty noise peak out at 20 kHz (or so). > > George H. >OPA140s are great. Sort of an OPA111 on steroids, with nice low noise levels. In LTspice I discover that you have to minutely adjust the supplies so that the inputs are right in the middle, at which point it'll find an operating point. Ramping up the supplies from zero works okay in a transient simulation. It's a pity you can't just take a snapshot of the voltages and currents in a circuit and say "Start here next time". That way we could use the .TRAN tricks for getting circuits started, and save the results for .AC and .NOISE. Cheers Phil Hobbs -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics 160 North State Road #203 Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 hobbs at electrooptical dot net http://electrooptical.net
