Den mandag den 3. november 2014 22.11.48 UTC+1 skrev Joerg:> Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote: > > Den mandag den 3. november 2014 21.58.14 UTC+1 skrev Joerg: > >> Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote: > >>> Den mandag den 3. november 2014 21.20.35 UTC+1 skrev Joerg: > >>>> Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote: > >>>>> Den s=F8ndag den 2. november 2014 18.24.23 UTC+1 skrev Joerg: > >>>>>> Joerg wrote: > >>>>>>> Carl Ijames wrote: > >>>>>>>> Don't know about computation speed, but this link says the > >>>>>>>> video card will drive 3 monitors:=20 > >>>>>>>> http://www.geforce.com/hardware/desktop-gpus/geforce-gt-720/spec=ifications.> >>>>>>>> Looking at Dell's site I don't see any mention of > >>>>>>>> expansion slots, and looking at the one picture with the > >>>>>>>> cover off I really can't see any sockets beyond the video > >>>>>>>> card, so if any further expansion is important you need to > >>>>>>>> ask Dell for clarification. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Looks like you are right: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> http://www.dell.com/ed/business/p/xps-8700/pd=20 > >>>>>>> http://core0.staticworld.net/images/article/2013/07/1253541_sr-11=60-100047019-orig.jpg> >>>>>>> =20 > >>>>>>> http://www.pcworld.com/article/2047487/dell-xps-8700-special-edit=ions-review-a-little-less-performance-for-a-lot-less-cash.html> >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Quote "There's only one PCIe x16 slot, which means you won't > >>>>>>> be able to add a second video card to take advantage of > >>>>>>> Nvidia's SLI technology". > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> No slots. There's one more card in the bottom, not sure what > >>>>>>> that is. But if the video can drive three monitors it should > >>>>>>> be fine, I never added any cards to my current PC either. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> Only question is, how can one connect two regular OPC monitors > >>>>>> to this? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> http://www.geforce.com/hardware/desktop-gpus/geforce-gt-720/produc=t-images> >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> I'd expect that you can connect a monitor to each of the three > >>>>> outputs, VGA,DVI,HDMI. I have an old geforce and that's how that > >>>>> works > >>>>> > >>>>> VGA is not much use, but unless you want to watch something from > >>>>> Hollywood DVI and HDMI is the same thing > >>>>> > >>>> I do a lot of video conferencing via web where content moves. Other > >>>> than that just CAD, no movie streaming and such. > >>>> > >>> Then DVI will works just fine, HDMI is just DVI with optional audio > >>> and the encryption Hollywood insists on if you bought a blueray movie > >>> > >>> > >>> So just plug a monitor into both the HDMI and DVI output > >>> > >> Ok, but can one be sure that an ordinary cheap 27" 1920*1080 monitor > >> will plug into either of them? For example, the ViewSonic VA2702w I ha=ve> >> here only has the large DVI connector, not the narrow HDMI. It does ha=ve> >> VGA though which I am using right now (good enough for my purposes). > >> > >=20 > > yes, for regular computer monitor HDMI and DVI is the same thing, you j=ust=20> > need the right cable or a adapter to get the wires in the right holes ;=) =20> >=20 >=20 > So then here in the photo the center one is HDMI and the right one is > DVI and that's where the two monitors should go to? I could also hook > one up to VGA like I have now.yes, you can hook up three monitors>=20 > http://www.geforce.com/hardware/desktop-gpus/geforce-gt-720/product-image=s>=20 > Says dual-link or DVI-D for the DVI connector in the specs, whatever > that means. >=20single-link is three differential pairs, dual-link has three extra pairs th= at are used for the higher bandwidth need for very high resolutions afair single link DVI is limited to 1920x1200 at 60 Hz=20 -Lasse
Is this Intel i7 machine good for LTSpice?
Started by ●November 2, 2014
Reply by ●November 3, 20142014-11-03
Reply by ●November 3, 20142014-11-03
rickman wrote:> On 11/3/2014 3:51 PM, Joerg wrote: >> DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno wrote:[...]>>> Since I cannot afford to put $1000 into a Titan video card, I miss on >>> a few benchmarks with my $250 GTX650. >> >> >> I am not at all concerned about video because that's just used for >> static display and sometimes video conferencing. No games, no movies. > > If you are going for power, you need to have separate video memory or > the video eats memory bandwidth which is often the limiting factor on a > multicore machine. > > I haven't kept up with the hotrod machines these days, but I'd be > willing to bet you will get a lot better performance with multi-banked > RAM. Does this machine have two or more memory interfaces or just one? >No clue. But with SPICE the graphics action is very slow, just a wee progress of a few traces on an otherwise static screen. And you could even turn that off. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Reply by ●November 3, 20142014-11-03
Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:> Den mandag den 3. november 2014 22.11.48 UTC+1 skrev Joerg: >> Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote: >>> Den mandag den 3. november 2014 21.58.14 UTC+1 skrev Joerg: >>>> Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote: >>>>> Den mandag den 3. november 2014 21.20.35 UTC+1 skrev Joerg: >>>>>> Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote: >>>>>>> Den s�ndag den 2. november 2014 18.24.23 UTC+1 skrev Joerg: >>>>>>>> Joerg wrote: >>>>>>>>> Carl Ijames wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Don't know about computation speed, but this link says the >>>>>>>>>> video card will drive 3 monitors: >>>>>>>>>> http://www.geforce.com/hardware/desktop-gpus/geforce-gt-720/specifications. >>>>>>>>>> Looking at Dell's site I don't see any mention of >>>>>>>>>> expansion slots, and looking at the one picture with the >>>>>>>>>> cover off I really can't see any sockets beyond the video >>>>>>>>>> card, so if any further expansion is important you need to >>>>>>>>>> ask Dell for clarification. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Looks like you are right: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.dell.com/ed/business/p/xps-8700/pd >>>>>>>>> http://core0.staticworld.net/images/article/2013/07/1253541_sr-1160-100047019-orig.jpg >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.pcworld.com/article/2047487/dell-xps-8700-special-editions-review-a-little-less-performance-for-a-lot-less-cash.html >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Quote "There's only one PCIe x16 slot, which means you won't >>>>>>>>> be able to add a second video card to take advantage of >>>>>>>>> Nvidia's SLI technology". >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> No slots. There's one more card in the bottom, not sure what >>>>>>>>> that is. But if the video can drive three monitors it should >>>>>>>>> be fine, I never added any cards to my current PC either. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Only question is, how can one connect two regular OPC monitors >>>>>>>> to this? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.geforce.com/hardware/desktop-gpus/geforce-gt-720/product-images >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'd expect that you can connect a monitor to each of the three >>>>>>> outputs, VGA,DVI,HDMI. I have an old geforce and that's how that >>>>>>> works >>>>>>> >>>>>>> VGA is not much use, but unless you want to watch something from >>>>>>> Hollywood DVI and HDMI is the same thing >>>>>>> >>>>>> I do a lot of video conferencing via web where content moves. Other >>>>>> than that just CAD, no movie streaming and such. >>>>>> >>>>> Then DVI will works just fine, HDMI is just DVI with optional audio >>>>> and the encryption Hollywood insists on if you bought a blueray movie >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> So just plug a monitor into both the HDMI and DVI output >>>>> >>>> Ok, but can one be sure that an ordinary cheap 27" 1920*1080 monitor >>>> will plug into either of them? For example, the ViewSonic VA2702w I have >>>> here only has the large DVI connector, not the narrow HDMI. It does have >>>> VGA though which I am using right now (good enough for my purposes). >>>> >>> yes, for regular computer monitor HDMI and DVI is the same thing, you just >>> need the right cable or a adapter to get the wires in the right holes ;) >>> >> So then here in the photo the center one is HDMI and the right one is >> DVI and that's where the two monitors should go to? I could also hook >> one up to VGA like I have now. > > yes, you can hook up three monitors > >> http://www.geforce.com/hardware/desktop-gpus/geforce-gt-720/product-images >> >> Says dual-link or DVI-D for the DVI connector in the specs, whatever >> that means. >> > > single-link is three differential pairs, dual-link has three extra pairs that are used for the higher bandwidth need for very high resolutions > > afair single link DVI is limited to 1920x1200 at 60 Hz >Thanks. 1920*1080 at 60Hz would be all I need. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Reply by ●November 3, 20142014-11-03
Phil Hobbs wrote:> On 11/02/2014 01:17 PM, Phil Hobbs wrote: >> On 11/2/2014 12:45 PM, John Larkin wrote: >>> On Sun, 02 Nov 2014 11:06:30 -0500, Phil Hobbs >>> <hobbs@electrooptical.net> wrote: >>> >>>> On 11/2/2014 11:00 AM, John Larkin wrote: >>>>> On Sun, 02 Nov 2014 07:25:49 -0800, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Folks, >>>>>> >>>>>> Need to spiff up my simulation speeds here. IIRC Mike Engelhardt >>>>>> stated >>>>>> that the Intel i7 is a really good processor for LTSPice. >>>>>> According to >>>>>> this it looks like the 4790 is the fastest of the bunch: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/processors/core/core-i7-processor.html >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> So, what do thee say, is the computer in the Costco link below a good >>>>>> deal for LTSpice purposes? >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.costco.com/Dell-XPS-8700-Desktop-%7c-Intel-Core-i7-%7c-1GB-Graphics-%7c-Windows-7-Professional.product.100131208.html >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> It's also available without MS-Office Home & Student 2013 for $100 >>>>>> less >>>>>> but I found that OpenOffice isn't 100% compatible in the Excel >>>>>> area so >>>>>> that sounds like an ok deal. My hope is that it can drive two 27" >>>>>> monitors but I guess I can always add in another graphics card if >>>>>> not. >>>>>> >>>>>> Reason I am looking at these is that I absolutely positively do not >>>>>> want >>>>>> any computer with Windows 8 in here and unfortunately that's what >>>>>> many >>>>>> others come with. >>>>> >>>>> I have spent too many hours this weekend tweaking the transient >>>>> response of a semi-hysteretic (we call it "hysterical") switchmode >>>>> constant-current source. There are about 8 interacting knobs to turn. >>>>> At 30 seconds per run, understanding the interactions is impossible. >>>>> >>>>> I want sliders on each of the part values, and I want to see the >>>>> waveforms change as I move the sliders, like they were trimpots on a >>>>> breadboard and I was looking at a scope. I need maybe 500 times the >>>>> compute power that I have now. >>>>> >>>>> Mike should code LT Spice to execute on a high-end video card. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> You can go quite a bit faster with a nice multicore machine--LTspice >>>> lets you choose how many threads to run. My desktop machine (about 3 >>>> years old now) runs about 150 Gflops peak. Supermicro is an excellent >>>> vendor. >>>> >>>> Cheers >>>> >>>> Phil Hobbs >>> >>> There's a setting for one or two threads. Is that all? >>> >>> >> That's because you only have two cores. Mine goes up to 15. > > 16 actually. Here's a picture: > http://electrooptical.net/pictures/LTspice16threads.png >That sounds like a high-testosterone machine of a computer :-) Which processors is in there? -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Reply by ●November 3, 20142014-11-03
rickman wrote:> On 11/3/2014 3:41 PM, Joerg wrote: >> rickman wrote: >>> On 11/2/2014 12:53 PM, Joerg wrote: >>>> Jeff Liebermann wrote: >>>>> On Sun, 02 Nov 2014 07:25:49 -0800, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> LTspice benchmark on various machines: >>>>> <http://fetting.se/images/PC%20Speed%20Benchmark%20running%20LTspice%20circuits.pdf> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Reason I am looking at these is that I absolutely positively do not >>>>>> want >>>>>> any computer with Windows 8 in here and unfortunately that's what >>>>>> many >>>>>> others come with. >>>>> >>>>> Windoze 8.1 can be made semi-tolerable by putting the start menu back >>>>> in and making it look like Windoze 7. >>>>> <http://www.classicshell.net> >>>>> I've been installing it on all my customers Windoze 8.1 machines and >>>>> have had no complaints or problems. If you like wiggly icons on the >>>>> Windoze 8.1 start screen, you can do <Shift><Start>. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Too much risk. I've heard that running legacy software is tough in >>>> Win-8 >>>> but Win-7 can mostly do it. Not as good as XP. >>> >>> What legacy software? I have Windows 8 and I'm not having problems >>> running anything I ran on my old Vista laptop. >>> >> >> Ahm, my SW goes back to the mid-80's. Unorthodox filter design, >> beamfield simulators and such. > > So DOS programs? What makes you think they won't work under Win8? The > usual FUD? >I've read that many DOS and also Windows 16-bit programs no longer run.> >>>> When it comes to PCs I am lazy :-) >>>> >>>> I just want to plug it in and go. Re-installing all my stuff takes >>>> enough time already. >>> >>> I hear you. The big problem I had with setting up my Win 8 laptop was >>> that a lot of the freeware has become burdened with ads, toolbars and >>> other malware to the point I'm not willing to use it. >>> >> >> Yes, nagware is a major problem. It already was 10 years ago where it >> took a lot of effort to rid the computer of that. >> >>> >>>>> Before buying anything, I suggest you try LTspice on the new machine. >>>>> This is VERY easy with LTspice which doesn't use the registry or >>>>> require admin rights. Just copy the files to a flash drive and it >>>>> should work. >>>> >>>> I am quite sure Costco will not let me do this :-) >>> >>> You can try finding the computer salesperson in the store. They are >>> limited by store policy of course, but I have met a few who were very >>> willing to help as best they could. >>> >> >> They only have them online. > > I've never been a fan of Costco for computers, with one exception. They > let you return a computer, no questions asked for 90 days I believe. So > you can try it out at home. >Yep. And all I have to try is LTSpice, the rest will work.> >>>>> One catch. LTspice saves its preferences to: >>>>> C:\windows\scad3.ini >>>>> which has to be writeable. The fix is to use the >>>>> -ini <path> >>>>> command line switch, which will: >>>>> Specify an .ini file to use other than %WINDIR%\scad3.ini >>>>> <http://ltwiki.org/LTspiceHelp/LTspiceHelp/Command_Line_Switches.htm> >>> >>> I need to note this somewhere. Writing to the Windows directory is a >>> *very* bad idea. I can't tell you how many developers do all sorts of >>> things they aren't supposed to under windows. That is the actual cause >>> of many problems people have running older software under Windows. They >>> don't listen to the people providing them with the OS! >>> >> >> I install everything in my own directory called "Programs". That avoids >> a lot of such issues. Makes it tough in a multi-user environment but I >> work alone here. > > That helps one aspect, the nags from the OS about writing data. But you > have lost the benefit of the Program Files directory being protected. It > makes your executables that much easier to infect, although that is not > typically a problem since good AVS stops malware long before it gets a > chance to infect the hard drive. >I never had that happen. Plus the SW I run is mostly not mainstream and should be very low on the hit list of hackers. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Reply by ●November 3, 20142014-11-03
On 11/3/2014 4:28 PM, Joerg wrote:> rickman wrote: >> On 11/3/2014 3:51 PM, Joerg wrote: >>> DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno wrote: > > [...] > >>>> Since I cannot afford to put $1000 into a Titan video card, I miss on >>>> a few benchmarks with my $250 GTX650. >>> >>> >>> I am not at all concerned about video because that's just used for >>> static display and sometimes video conferencing. No games, no movies. >> >> If you are going for power, you need to have separate video memory or >> the video eats memory bandwidth which is often the limiting factor on a >> multicore machine. >> >> I haven't kept up with the hotrod machines these days, but I'd be >> willing to bet you will get a lot better performance with multi-banked >> RAM. Does this machine have two or more memory interfaces or just one? >> > > No clue. But with SPICE the graphics action is very slow, just a wee > progress of a few traces on an otherwise static screen. And you could > even turn that off.You aren't grasping the concept. Video memory needs a sizable bandwidth to *display* the image to the screen. All the data that goes out over your HDMI cable is being read from memory *all the time*. You're a bright boy. Do the math... 1920*1080*60 times 3 or 4 bytes per pixel. This has *nothing* to do with drawing the images into graphic memory. The memory bank question will likely be more important than the number of cores in the CPU. The guy who can run 16 threads has at least two memory interfaces or it would be bogging down between 4 and 8 cores. -- Rick
Reply by ●November 3, 20142014-11-03
Jeff Liebermann wrote:> On Sun, 02 Nov 2014 14:56:04 -0500, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote: > >> On 11/2/2014 12:53 PM, Joerg wrote: >>> Too much risk. I've heard that running legacy software is tough in Win-8 >>> but Win-7 can mostly do it. Not as good as XP. > >> What legacy software? I have Windows 8 and I'm not having problems >> running anything I ran on my old Vista laptop. > > I recently awarded myself a short vacation in honor my burning a huge > amount of time getting old software to run nicely on Windoze 8.1. > Specifically, the DOS versions of various fiduciary programs dating > 1996 through 2002, which the customer insisted had to run even though > later versions worked just fine. The problem was that the tax rules > and tables all changed over the years and they wanted the original > versions. I ended up running them under DOSbox, which was originally > designed to run ancient games, but works equally well with ancient > business applications: > <http://www.dosbox.com/status.php?show_status=1> > I also tried them under VMware and VirtualBox, both of which worked > nicely, but DOSbox is easier and faster. > > Another horror was Office 2003 on Windoze 8.1. It installs, updates, > loads, and looks like it might work, but eventually crashes. All I > really needed was Outlook 2003, but that would hang after polling for > mail a few times. I probably could have figured out the problem, but > convinced the customer that Mozilla Thunderbird would be a suitable > option. > > Then, there's WordPerfect 12 which I think was introduced in 2002. > Amazingly, it worked 99%. However, the 1% was fatal. Windoze file > association would not start WP12 if I double clicked on a WPD file (or > any of the other WP files). It took a while to figure out that WP12 > was trying to use an ancient ODBC version, which required that WP12 > beg permission of the Windoze security abomination before it would > condescend to even supply an error message. Fixed by running WP12 as > administrator, which by passes most of the security mess. > > I guess the moral here is to not try to run 12+ year old software on > Windoze 8.1. My mistake was assuming that since all the > aforementioned software ran just fine in Windoze 7, the new and > improved Windoze 8.1 couldn't possibly break something that already > worked so well.That kind of stuff cinches it for me: It has to be Win-7. [...] -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Reply by ●November 3, 20142014-11-03
On Mon, 03 Nov 2014 15:53:13 -0500, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> Gave us:> >If you would care to do a little digging for info on this I'm sure you >can find something that will help you learn.What part of "can be turned off in the BIOS" did you not understand? I know full well what it is. I also know that YOU do not know what is going on, regardless of what you read, and are happy to paste iterate back into here, appearing as if to be a professor on the subject. You make me laugh. We are talking about basic grasp here. Nothing will help you learn, old man. You are hard wired stupid.
Reply by ●November 3, 20142014-11-03
On Mon, 03 Nov 2014 16:01:39 -0500, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> Gave us:>So DOS programs? What makes you think they won't work under Win8? The >usual FUD?So, you really know nothing about actual attachment to real hardware hooks then, eh, dingledorf? You ain't real bright, boy.
Reply by ●November 3, 20142014-11-03
Den mandag den 3. november 2014 22.42.14 UTC+1 skrev rickman:> On 11/3/2014 4:28 PM, Joerg wrote: > > rickman wrote: > >> On 11/3/2014 3:51 PM, Joerg wrote: > >>> DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno wrote: > > > > [...] > > > >>>> Since I cannot afford to put $1000 into a Titan video card, I miss on > >>>> a few benchmarks with my $250 GTX650. > >>> > >>> > >>> I am not at all concerned about video because that's just used for > >>> static display and sometimes video conferencing. No games, no movies. > >> > >> If you are going for power, you need to have separate video memory or > >> the video eats memory bandwidth which is often the limiting factor on a > >> multicore machine. > >> > >> I haven't kept up with the hotrod machines these days, but I'd be > >> willing to bet you will get a lot better performance with multi-banked > >> RAM. Does this machine have two or more memory interfaces or just one? > >> > > > > No clue. But with SPICE the graphics action is very slow, just a wee > > progress of a few traces on an otherwise static screen. And you could > > even turn that off. > > You aren't grasping the concept. Video memory needs a sizable bandwidth > to *display* the image to the screen. All the data that goes out over > your HDMI cable is being read from memory *all the time*. You're a > bright boy. Do the math... 1920*1080*60 times 3 or 4 bytes per pixel. >with anything but a graphics-card integrated in the chipset that memory will be on the card itself, 1920*1080*24bit is less that 7MB -Lasse
