On 9/25/2015 3:06 PM, Neon John wrote:> On Tue, 22 Sep 2015 11:55:53 +0100, John Devereux > <john@devereux.me.uk> wrote: > > >> Yeah, I just bought it for my company and I am still deeply ambivalent >> about it. Kicad is *so* close now, and it looks like it is on a really >> good path for the future. > > Fully agree. My company has used Eagle for about 6 years but we're > transitioning to KiCAD. It's not quite there yet but it's soooo > close. > > While on the topic of CAD, someone asked awhile back about mechanical > CAD. We're using Qcad. It's quite good and very Auto-CAD-like but I > recommend it only provisionally because it's basically gimp-ware. The > FOSS part is basically useless for anything more than drawing lines > and circles. One has to buy the proprietary add-ons to get actual > functionality like being able to do sophisticated things with > polylines and blocks. >I've been using SolidEdge 2D - free, fully functional, parametric modeling (change a dimension, relationships change according to constraints you define). http://www.plm.automation.siemens.com/en_us/products/solid-edge/free2d/index.shtml Once a year (around this time - September) a new version is released and your license key (a small text file) expires. The fix is to download the new version or update the key. All you have to do is provide your info so a salesman can contact you to see if you'd like to upgrade to the pay-for 3D system. There are tutorials etc. on the youtubes and in the documentation - takes some practice to get all the horsepower into your fingertips. There's only one piece missing that limits my happiness - the 3D system has a magic helix/spiral function but not the 2D package - it's a bit tedious to set up construction points to thread a spline for a spiral inductor. DWG and DXF can be exported - the hybrid RF/microwave substrate guys have a path to happiness. -- Grizzly H.
Altium Designer Pricing
Started by ●April 2, 2014
Reply by ●September 27, 20152015-09-27
Reply by ●September 27, 20152015-09-27
On 9/27/2015 2:32 PM, mixed nuts wrote:> On 9/25/2015 3:06 PM, Neon John wrote: >> On Tue, 22 Sep 2015 11:55:53 +0100, John Devereux >> <john@devereux.me.uk> wrote: >> >> >>> Yeah, I just bought it for my company and I am still deeply ambivalent >>> about it. Kicad is *so* close now, and it looks like it is on a really >>> good path for the future. >> >> Fully agree. My company has used Eagle for about 6 years but we're >> transitioning to KiCAD. It's not quite there yet but it's soooo >> close. >> >> While on the topic of CAD, someone asked awhile back about mechanical >> CAD. We're using Qcad. It's quite good and very Auto-CAD-like but I >> recommend it only provisionally because it's basically gimp-ware. The >> FOSS part is basically useless for anything more than drawing lines >> and circles. One has to buy the proprietary add-ons to get actual >> functionality like being able to do sophisticated things with >> polylines and blocks. >> > > I've been using SolidEdge 2D - free, fully functional, parametric > modeling (change a dimension, relationships change according to > constraints you define). > > http://www.plm.automation.siemens.com/en_us/products/solid-edge/free2d/index.shtml > > > Once a year (around this time - September) a new version is released and > your license key (a small text file) expires. The fix is to download the > new version or update the key. All you have to do is provide your info > so a salesman can contact you to see if you'd like to upgrade to the > pay-for 3D system.I have had no end of trouble with licenses expiring at very inconvenient times. That is the main reason why I try to avoid them at all costs. -- Rick
Reply by ●September 27, 20152015-09-27
On 9/27/2015 3:13 PM, rickman wrote:> On 9/27/2015 2:32 PM, mixed nuts wrote: >> On 9/25/2015 3:06 PM, Neon John wrote: >>> On Tue, 22 Sep 2015 11:55:53 +0100, John Devereux >>> <john@devereux.me.uk> wrote: >>> >>>> Yeah, I just bought it for my company and I am still deeply ambivalent >>>> about it. Kicad is *so* close now, and it looks like it is on a really >>>> good path for the future. >>> >>> Fully agree. My company has used Eagle for about 6 years but we're >>> transitioning to KiCAD. It's not quite there yet but it's soooo >>> close. >>> >>> While on the topic of CAD, someone asked awhile back about mechanical >>> CAD. We're using Qcad. It's quite good and very Auto-CAD-like but I >>> recommend it only provisionally because it's basically gimp-ware. The >>> FOSS part is basically useless for anything more than drawing lines >>> and circles. One has to buy the proprietary add-ons to get actual >>> functionality like being able to do sophisticated things with >>> polylines and blocks. >> >> I've been using SolidEdge 2D - free, fully functional, parametric >> modeling (change a dimension, relationships change according to >> constraints you define). >> >> http://www.plm.automation.siemens.com/en_us/products/solid-edge/free2d/index.shtml >> >> Once a year (around this time - September) a new version is released and >> your license key (a small text file) expires. The fix is to download the >> new version or update the key. All you have to do is provide your info >> so a salesman can contact you to see if you'd like to upgrade to the >> pay-for 3D system. > > I have had no end of trouble with licenses expiring at very inconvenient > times. That is the main reason why I try to avoid them at all costs.There's actually a warning starting a week or two before expiration. It'll ask you if you want an upgrade or just a new key - painless. ;) -- Gr
Reply by ●September 27, 20152015-09-27
On 9/27/2015 3:41 PM, mixed nuts wrote:> On 9/27/2015 3:13 PM, rickman wrote: >> On 9/27/2015 2:32 PM, mixed nuts wrote: >>> On 9/25/2015 3:06 PM, Neon John wrote: >>>> On Tue, 22 Sep 2015 11:55:53 +0100, John Devereux >>>> <john@devereux.me.uk> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Yeah, I just bought it for my company and I am still deeply ambivalent >>>>> about it. Kicad is *so* close now, and it looks like it is on a really >>>>> good path for the future. >>>> >>>> Fully agree. My company has used Eagle for about 6 years but we're >>>> transitioning to KiCAD. It's not quite there yet but it's soooo >>>> close. >>>> >>>> While on the topic of CAD, someone asked awhile back about mechanical >>>> CAD. We're using Qcad. It's quite good and very Auto-CAD-like but I >>>> recommend it only provisionally because it's basically gimp-ware. The >>>> FOSS part is basically useless for anything more than drawing lines >>>> and circles. One has to buy the proprietary add-ons to get actual >>>> functionality like being able to do sophisticated things with >>>> polylines and blocks. >>> >>> I've been using SolidEdge 2D - free, fully functional, parametric >>> modeling (change a dimension, relationships change according to >>> constraints you define). >>> >>> http://www.plm.automation.siemens.com/en_us/products/solid-edge/free2d/index.shtml >>> >>> >>> Once a year (around this time - September) a new version is released and >>> your license key (a small text file) expires. The fix is to download the >>> new version or update the key. All you have to do is provide your info >>> so a salesman can contact you to see if you'd like to upgrade to the >>> pay-for 3D system. >> >> I have had no end of trouble with licenses expiring at very inconvenient >> times. That is the main reason why I try to avoid them at all costs. > > There's actually a warning starting a week or two before expiration. > It'll ask you if you want an upgrade or just a new key - painless. ;)That's great if you used the product in that week. I often don't use CAD tools for weeks or even months at a time. I guess I should just get used to tools requiring activation every time I want to use them, but I don't. I guess the process for this program is less painless than others. I have started a new project on a Friday only to find I had to wait until the next business day to get a new license which means I can't work over the weekend, which I often do when working. FPGA tools are not very license friendly. -- Rick
Reply by ●September 28, 20152015-09-28
rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes:> On 9/27/2015 3:41 PM, mixed nuts wrote: >> On 9/27/2015 3:13 PM, rickman wrote: >>> On 9/27/2015 2:32 PM, mixed nuts wrote: >>>> On 9/25/2015 3:06 PM, Neon John wrote: >>>>> On Tue, 22 Sep 2015 11:55:53 +0100, John Devereux >>>>> <john@devereux.me.uk> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Yeah, I just bought it for my company and I am still deeply ambivalent >>>>>> about it. Kicad is *so* close now, and it looks like it is on a really >>>>>> good path for the future. >>>>> >>>>> Fully agree. My company has used Eagle for about 6 years but we're >>>>> transitioning to KiCAD. It's not quite there yet but it's soooo >>>>> close. >>>>> >>>>> While on the topic of CAD, someone asked awhile back about mechanical >>>>> CAD. We're using Qcad. It's quite good and very Auto-CAD-like but I >>>>> recommend it only provisionally because it's basically gimp-ware. The >>>>> FOSS part is basically useless for anything more than drawing lines >>>>> and circles. One has to buy the proprietary add-ons to get actual >>>>> functionality like being able to do sophisticated things with >>>>> polylines and blocks. >>>> >>>> I've been using SolidEdge 2D - free, fully functional, parametric >>>> modeling (change a dimension, relationships change according to >>>> constraints you define). >>>> >>>> http://www.plm.automation.siemens.com/en_us/products/solid-edge/free2d/index.shtml >>>> >>>> >>>> Once a year (around this time - September) a new version is released and >>>> your license key (a small text file) expires. The fix is to download the >>>> new version or update the key. All you have to do is provide your info >>>> so a salesman can contact you to see if you'd like to upgrade to the >>>> pay-for 3D system.>>> >>> I have had no end of trouble with licenses expiring at very inconvenient >>> times. That is the main reason why I try to avoid them at all costs. >> >> There's actually a warning starting a week or two before expiration. >> It'll ask you if you want an upgrade or just a new key - painless. ;) > > That's great if you used the product in that week. I often don't use > CAD tools for weeks or even months at a time. I guess I should just > get used to tools requiring activation every time I want to use them, > but I don't. > > I guess the process for this program is less painless than others. I > have started a new project on a Friday only to find I had to wait > until the next business day to get a new license which means I can't > work over the weekend, which I often do when working. FPGA tools are > not very license friendly.It sounds like they can cut-off usage of the free product any time they want to. In fact it *will* get cut-off when they get tired of running the license server, change their product strategy, the product gets bought out, etc. Sounds a bit precarious, a CAD system is a big investment not just in financial terms but in the time invested in learning it, the drawings, developing libraries and templates etc. -- John Devereux
Reply by ●September 28, 20152015-09-28
On 9/28/2015 2:54 AM, John Devereux wrote:> rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes: > >> On 9/27/2015 3:41 PM, mixed nuts wrote: >>> On 9/27/2015 3:13 PM, rickman wrote: >>>> On 9/27/2015 2:32 PM, mixed nuts wrote: >>>>> On 9/25/2015 3:06 PM, Neon John wrote: >>>>>> On Tue, 22 Sep 2015 11:55:53 +0100, John Devereux >>>>>> <john@devereux.me.uk> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Yeah, I just bought it for my company and I am still deeply ambivalent >>>>>>> about it. Kicad is *so* close now, and it looks like it is on a really >>>>>>> good path for the future. >>>>>> >>>>>> Fully agree. My company has used Eagle for about 6 years but we're >>>>>> transitioning to KiCAD. It's not quite there yet but it's soooo >>>>>> close. >>>>>> >>>>>> While on the topic of CAD, someone asked awhile back about mechanical >>>>>> CAD. We're using Qcad. It's quite good and very Auto-CAD-like but I >>>>>> recommend it only provisionally because it's basically gimp-ware. The >>>>>> FOSS part is basically useless for anything more than drawing lines >>>>>> and circles. One has to buy the proprietary add-ons to get actual >>>>>> functionality like being able to do sophisticated things with >>>>>> polylines and blocks. >>>>> >>>>> I've been using SolidEdge 2D - free, fully functional, parametric >>>>> modeling (change a dimension, relationships change according to >>>>> constraints you define). >>>>> >>>>> http://www.plm.automation.siemens.com/en_us/products/solid-edge/free2d/index.shtml >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Once a year (around this time - September) a new version is released and >>>>> your license key (a small text file) expires. The fix is to download the >>>>> new version or update the key. All you have to do is provide your info >>>>> so a salesman can contact you to see if you'd like to upgrade to the >>>>> pay-for 3D system. > > >>>> >>>> I have had no end of trouble with licenses expiring at very inconvenient >>>> times. That is the main reason why I try to avoid them at all costs. >>> >>> There's actually a warning starting a week or two before expiration. >>> It'll ask you if you want an upgrade or just a new key - painless. ;) >> >> That's great if you used the product in that week. I often don't use >> CAD tools for weeks or even months at a time. I guess I should just >> get used to tools requiring activation every time I want to use them, >> but I don't. >> >> I guess the process for this program is less painless than others. I >> have started a new project on a Friday only to find I had to wait >> until the next business day to get a new license which means I can't >> work over the weekend, which I often do when working. FPGA tools are >> not very license friendly. > > It sounds like they can cut-off usage of the free product any time they > want to. In fact it *will* get cut-off when they get tired of running > the license server, change their product strategy, the product gets > bought out, etc. > > Sounds a bit precarious, a CAD system is a big investment not just in > financial terms but in the time invested in learning it, the drawings, > developing libraries and templates etc.I don't know what type of tools you use, I do VHDL design on FPGAs. The only device specific investment is the pin out which is not compatible between product lines much less brands. So either I use the tools for that part or I redesign the PCB. FPGA vendors won't drop their free tools. They would lose a lot of customers and the free tools don't cost them much really. -- Rick
Reply by ●September 28, 20152015-09-28
rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes:> On 9/28/2015 2:54 AM, John Devereux wrote: >> rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes: >> >>> On 9/27/2015 3:41 PM, mixed nuts wrote: >>>> On 9/27/2015 3:13 PM, rickman wrote: >>>>> On 9/27/2015 2:32 PM, mixed nuts wrote: >>>>>> On 9/25/2015 3:06 PM, Neon John wrote: >>>>>>> On Tue, 22 Sep 2015 11:55:53 +0100, John Devereux >>>>>>> <john@devereux.me.uk> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yeah, I just bought it for my company and I am still deeply ambivalent >>>>>>>> about it. Kicad is *so* close now, and it looks like it is on a really >>>>>>>> good path for the future. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Fully agree. My company has used Eagle for about 6 years but we're >>>>>>> transitioning to KiCAD. It's not quite there yet but it's soooo >>>>>>> close. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> While on the topic of CAD, someone asked awhile back about mechanical >>>>>>> CAD. We're using Qcad. It's quite good and very Auto-CAD-like but I >>>>>>> recommend it only provisionally because it's basically gimp-ware. The >>>>>>> FOSS part is basically useless for anything more than drawing lines >>>>>>> and circles. One has to buy the proprietary add-ons to get actual >>>>>>> functionality like being able to do sophisticated things with >>>>>>> polylines and blocks. >>>>>> >>>>>> I've been using SolidEdge 2D - free, fully functional, parametric >>>>>> modeling (change a dimension, relationships change according to >>>>>> constraints you define). >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.plm.automation.siemens.com/en_us/products/solid-edge/free2d/index.shtml >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Once a year (around this time - September) a new version is released and >>>>>> your license key (a small text file) expires. The fix is to download the >>>>>> new version or update the key. All you have to do is provide your info >>>>>> so a salesman can contact you to see if you'd like to upgrade to the >>>>>> pay-for 3D system. >> >> >>>>> >>>>> I have had no end of trouble with licenses expiring at very inconvenient >>>>> times. That is the main reason why I try to avoid them at all costs. >>>> >>>> There's actually a warning starting a week or two before expiration. >>>> It'll ask you if you want an upgrade or just a new key - painless. ;) >>> >>> That's great if you used the product in that week. I often don't use >>> CAD tools for weeks or even months at a time. I guess I should just >>> get used to tools requiring activation every time I want to use them, >>> but I don't. >>> >>> I guess the process for this program is less painless than others. I >>> have started a new project on a Friday only to find I had to wait >>> until the next business day to get a new license which means I can't >>> work over the weekend, which I often do when working. FPGA tools are >>> not very license friendly. >> >> It sounds like they can cut-off usage of the free product any time they >> want to. In fact it *will* get cut-off when they get tired of running >> the license server, change their product strategy, the product gets >> bought out, etc. >> >> Sounds a bit precarious, a CAD system is a big investment not just in >> financial terms but in the time invested in learning it, the drawings, >> developing libraries and templates etc. > > I don't know what type of tools you use, I do VHDL design on FPGAs. > The only device specific investment is the pin out which is not > compatible between product lines much less brands. So either I use > the tools for that part or I redesign the PCB. > > FPGA vendors won't drop their free tools. They would lose a lot of > customers and the free tools don't cost them much really.Sorry, I was unclear. I was referring to the SolidEdge licensing not your FPGA tools. -- John Devereux
Reply by ●September 28, 20152015-09-28
On 9/28/2015 2:54 AM, John Devereux wrote:> rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes: > >> On 9/27/2015 3:41 PM, mixed nuts wrote: >>> On 9/27/2015 3:13 PM, rickman wrote: >>>> On 9/27/2015 2:32 PM, mixed nuts wrote: >>>>> On 9/25/2015 3:06 PM, Neon John wrote: >>>>>> On Tue, 22 Sep 2015 11:55:53 +0100, John Devereux >>>>>> <john@devereux.me.uk> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Yeah, I just bought it for my company and I am still deeply ambivalent >>>>>>> about it. Kicad is *so* close now, and it looks like it is on a really >>>>>>> good path for the future. >>>>>> >>>>>> Fully agree. My company has used Eagle for about 6 years but we're >>>>>> transitioning to KiCAD. It's not quite there yet but it's soooo >>>>>> close. >>>>>> >>>>>> While on the topic of CAD, someone asked awhile back about mechanical >>>>>> CAD. We're using Qcad. It's quite good and very Auto-CAD-like but I >>>>>> recommend it only provisionally because it's basically gimp-ware. The >>>>>> FOSS part is basically useless for anything more than drawing lines >>>>>> and circles. One has to buy the proprietary add-ons to get actual >>>>>> functionality like being able to do sophisticated things with >>>>>> polylines and blocks. >>>>> >>>>> I've been using SolidEdge 2D - free, fully functional, parametric >>>>> modeling (change a dimension, relationships change according to >>>>> constraints you define). >>>>> >>>>> http://www.plm.automation.siemens.com/en_us/products/solid-edge/free2d/index.shtml >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Once a year (around this time - September) a new version is released and >>>>> your license key (a small text file) expires. The fix is to download the >>>>> new version or update the key. All you have to do is provide your info >>>>> so a salesman can contact you to see if you'd like to upgrade to the >>>>> pay-for 3D system. > > >>>> >>>> I have had no end of trouble with licenses expiring at very inconvenient >>>> times. That is the main reason why I try to avoid them at all costs. >>> >>> There's actually a warning starting a week or two before expiration. >>> It'll ask you if you want an upgrade or just a new key - painless. ;) >> >> That's great if you used the product in that week. I often don't use >> CAD tools for weeks or even months at a time. I guess I should just >> get used to tools requiring activation every time I want to use them, >> but I don't. >> >> I guess the process for this program is less painless than others. I >> have started a new project on a Friday only to find I had to wait >> until the next business day to get a new license which means I can't >> work over the weekend, which I often do when working. FPGA tools are >> not very license friendly. > > It sounds like they can cut-off usage of the free product any time they > want to. In fact it *will* get cut-off when they get tired of running > the license server, change their product strategy, the product gets > bought out, etc. > > Sounds a bit precarious, a CAD system is a big investment not just in > financial terms but in the time invested in learning it, the drawings, > developing libraries and templates etc. >I've been told that it's actually a very successful sales tool. Once a year, the customer (or potential customer) reconnects with the company. If said customer checks the "contact is OK" box, somebody will call. Not much different from keeping a sales "tickler" file. Siemens management seems to understand and support this. Maybe they came up with the idea. The license key is a local text file - no license server to connect to. One person can put this file on a thumb drive or email it around. Poof - everybody's good for another year. Libraries and templates are always an issue. The pain is only weakly related to the CAD package in use. I believe the pain is proportional to the square of the number of engineers with write access to the template directory. -- Grizzly H.
Reply by ●September 28, 20152015-09-28
On 9/28/2015 5:52 AM, John Devereux wrote:> rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes: > >> On 9/28/2015 2:54 AM, John Devereux wrote: >>> rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes: >>> >>>> On 9/27/2015 3:41 PM, mixed nuts wrote: >>>>> On 9/27/2015 3:13 PM, rickman wrote: >>>>>> On 9/27/2015 2:32 PM, mixed nuts wrote: >>>>>>> On 9/25/2015 3:06 PM, Neon John wrote: >>>>>>>> On Tue, 22 Sep 2015 11:55:53 +0100, John Devereux >>>>>>>> <john@devereux.me.uk> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Yeah, I just bought it for my company and I am still deeply ambivalent >>>>>>>>> about it. Kicad is *so* close now, and it looks like it is on a really >>>>>>>>> good path for the future. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Fully agree. My company has used Eagle for about 6 years but we're >>>>>>>> transitioning to KiCAD. It's not quite there yet but it's soooo >>>>>>>> close. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> While on the topic of CAD, someone asked awhile back about mechanical >>>>>>>> CAD. We're using Qcad. It's quite good and very Auto-CAD-like but I >>>>>>>> recommend it only provisionally because it's basically gimp-ware. The >>>>>>>> FOSS part is basically useless for anything more than drawing lines >>>>>>>> and circles. One has to buy the proprietary add-ons to get actual >>>>>>>> functionality like being able to do sophisticated things with >>>>>>>> polylines and blocks. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I've been using SolidEdge 2D - free, fully functional, parametric >>>>>>> modeling (change a dimension, relationships change according to >>>>>>> constraints you define). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.plm.automation.siemens.com/en_us/products/solid-edge/free2d/index.shtml >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Once a year (around this time - September) a new version is released and >>>>>>> your license key (a small text file) expires. The fix is to download the >>>>>>> new version or update the key. All you have to do is provide your info >>>>>>> so a salesman can contact you to see if you'd like to upgrade to the >>>>>>> pay-for 3D system. >>> >>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I have had no end of trouble with licenses expiring at very inconvenient >>>>>> times. That is the main reason why I try to avoid them at all costs. >>>>> >>>>> There's actually a warning starting a week or two before expiration. >>>>> It'll ask you if you want an upgrade or just a new key - painless. ;) >>>> >>>> That's great if you used the product in that week. I often don't use >>>> CAD tools for weeks or even months at a time. I guess I should just >>>> get used to tools requiring activation every time I want to use them, >>>> but I don't. >>>> >>>> I guess the process for this program is less painless than others. I >>>> have started a new project on a Friday only to find I had to wait >>>> until the next business day to get a new license which means I can't >>>> work over the weekend, which I often do when working. FPGA tools are >>>> not very license friendly. >>> >>> It sounds like they can cut-off usage of the free product any time they >>> want to. In fact it *will* get cut-off when they get tired of running >>> the license server, change their product strategy, the product gets >>> bought out, etc. >>> >>> Sounds a bit precarious, a CAD system is a big investment not just in >>> financial terms but in the time invested in learning it, the drawings, >>> developing libraries and templates etc. >> >> I don't know what type of tools you use, I do VHDL design on FPGAs. >> The only device specific investment is the pin out which is not >> compatible between product lines much less brands. So either I use >> the tools for that part or I redesign the PCB. >> >> FPGA vendors won't drop their free tools. They would lose a lot of >> customers and the free tools don't cost them much really. > > Sorry, I was unclear. I was referring to the SolidEdge licensing not > your FPGA tools.Yes, I won't use proprietary CAD tools anymore. But even those are not likely to cut off the free tools. Have any of the vendors done this? -- Rick
Reply by ●September 28, 20152015-09-28
Op 09/27/2015 om 09:41 PM schreef mixed nuts:> On 9/27/2015 3:13 PM, rickman wrote: >> >> I have had no end of trouble with licenses expiring at very inconvenient >> times. That is the main reason why I try to avoid them at all costs. > > There's actually a warning starting a week or two before expiration. > It'll ask you if you want an upgrade or just a new key - painless. ;)I don't even buy/use that kind of software! Software must keep working always.
