Altium Designer Pricing

On Fri, 04 Apr 2014 07:42:10 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid>
wrote:

>
>
>Does it work across borders? Or even oceans?

It would depend on how you set up the license server. Usually the
license server is only visible on the LAN, but I'm sure any competent
IT person could (maybe even I could) set up a secure VPN to tunnel
through the firewall. You'd probably want that anyway if you're doing
real development work at multiple sites or off-site. 

--sp 

On Fri, 04 Apr 2014 07:42:10 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid>
wrote:

>
>In my case >50% of designs usually consist of SPICE simulations and
>there Internet access rarely matters. For example, you can use a
>somewhat similar RF transistor and then download the real model when you
>have Internet connection again. But not being able to draw a schematic
>would drive me up the wall because this is often done in parallel, in
>another window.

I like to augment the database with all the information from every
part that is used, and not put that work off until later. That way
everything that can be controlled at the schematic stage is
controlled. Layout goes very quickly when that work is done up front.
The BOM including part cost can be automatically generated. Datasheets
are linked. Orders can be uploaded to Digikey so they come back with
the PCB part designators printed on the bags (saves a lot of time for
prototyping).  

Simply changing a capacitor from X7R to X5R would require Internet
access to create the database entry. As would changing to another
transistor that I don't happen to have the footprint or SPICE model
for already. 

Here's a typical (autoloaded from supplier) database entry for a part.
I actually add a couple custom fields and there is often more than one
supplier listed. Of course the in-house-standard footprint (or
footprints if there are options such as high/low density) for that
exact manufacturer's part nummber with STEP file 3D body model gets
attached as well as the SPICE model for simulation.  

http://i.imgur.com/AfzwfYq.png

It sounds like you're talking about working at a much earlier stage in
the design when things are a bit more abstract. At that stage, I don't
see much point in involving a full EDA suite- the overhead is pretty
high. 

--sp 

Spehro Pefhany wrote:
> On Fri, 04 Apr 2014 07:42:10 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid>
> wrote:
> 
>>
>> Does it work across borders? Or even oceans?
> 
> It would depend on how you set up the license server. Usually the
> license server is only visible on the LAN, but I'm sure any competent
> IT person could (maybe even I could) set up a secure VPN to tunnel
> through the firewall. You'd probably want that anyway if you're doing
> real development work at multiple sites or off-site. 
> 

I've had a support group from a major and very reputable IT company
trying to get that going for me. All in all it cost me almost 10h and it
did not work. I did not bill my client for that time but it sure was
aggravating. So I like to keep things simple, and Eagle does keep it
simple. Installation on a new PC takes less than five minutes and there
is no fuss with license servers.

-- 
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Spehro Pefhany wrote:
> On Fri, 04 Apr 2014 07:42:10 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid>
> wrote:
> 
>> In my case >50% of designs usually consist of SPICE simulations and
>> there Internet access rarely matters. For example, you can use a
>> somewhat similar RF transistor and then download the real model when you
>> have Internet connection again. But not being able to draw a schematic
>> would drive me up the wall because this is often done in parallel, in
>> another window.
> 
> I like to augment the database with all the information from every
> part that is used, and not put that work off until later. That way
> everything that can be controlled at the schematic stage is
> controlled. Layout goes very quickly when that work is done up front.
> The BOM including part cost can be automatically generated. Datasheets
> are linked. Orders can be uploaded to Digikey so they come back with
> the PCB part designators printed on the bags (saves a lot of time for
> prototyping).  
> 

That's nice if the CAD can do all this. Eagle can as well but I believe
it only has purchase linking to Farnell which isn't useful for me. My
default source is Digikey.


> Simply changing a capacitor from X7R to X5R would require Internet
> access to create the database entry. As would changing to another
> transistor that I don't happen to have the footprint or SPICE model
> for already. 
> 

That is not so good. I can change such attributes sans Internet. Of
course, a new SPICE does require at least email access. In general I
prefer as much as possible to reside on the very PC where the design
happens and not on some distant server. On the road I either copy
libraries and such over to the netbook or carry that on a USB stick.


> Here's a typical (autoloaded from supplier) database entry for a part.
> I actually add a couple custom fields and there is often more than one
> supplier listed. Of course the in-house-standard footprint (or
> footprints if there are options such as high/low density) for that
> exact manufacturer's part nummber with STEP file 3D body model gets
> attached as well as the SPICE model for simulation.  
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/AfzwfYq.png
> 
> It sounds like you're talking about working at a much earlier stage in
> the design when things are a bit more abstract. At that stage, I don't
> see much point in involving a full EDA suite- the overhead is pretty
> high. 
> 

I don't do layouts because it is more cost efficient to farm that out,
plus pro-layouters are always in touch with the latest and greatest fab
capabilities. All I do is occasionally prescribe how to place and route
very hot RF paths.

At the schematics stage selecting the right parts or creating the
library entries is crucial. Also a link to the simulator and I believe
Eagle now has an LTSpice link, I just haven't yet heard from anyone how
well that works.

Footprints in my case are mostly placeholders because layouters
generally use other CAD systems. Even clients that use Eagle have their
own preferred footprints so it wouldn't make much sense for me to spend
a lot of time on that.

-- 
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Thu, 3 Apr 2014 16:56:43 -0500, "Tim Williams"
<tmoranwms@charter.net> wrote:


>For all the bitching and whining I hear about Eagle, I'm astonished people 
>use it at all.  Even ameteurs because there's a free version.  They whine 
>all day!  Let alone actually doing any real work in it.  Almost as bad as 
>gEDA!

Nothing is worse than gEDA!!!!!

Eagle is awful when you first encounter it.  I loaded and deleted it
about 3 or 4 times before I finally spent some time with it as part of
my evaluation of PCB CAD packages for our company.

The key is, you have to learn to think like a German which is very
very different than the rest of the world.  Once that's done, Eagle is
quite easy to use and one can be very productive.  There are very few
features that I have ever desired that Eagle doesn't have.  Library
management is probably the worst aspect.  For what I'm doing I'm quite
satisfied with Eagle.

I very much want to see KiCAD come up to professional standards and
with the corporate backing, it probably will.  My only problem is that
we have so much intellectual property in Eagle format that I'm kinda
tied to it.

>
>No one should have to put up with that.  As soon as I have enough, 
>investment shall we say, I'll buy an Altium license in a heartbeat.

Gad, I couldn't imagine using anything with that kind of copy
protection.  Ughhhh.

John
John DeArmond
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.fluxeon.com 
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
See website for email address

On 04/04/2014 12:59 PM, Neon John wrote:
> On Thu, 3 Apr 2014 16:56:43 -0500, "Tim Williams"
> <tmoranwms@charter.net> wrote:
>
>
>> For all the bitching and whining I hear about Eagle, I'm astonished people
>> use it at all.  Even ameteurs because there's a free version.  They whine
>> all day!  Let alone actually doing any real work in it.  Almost as bad as
>> gEDA!
>
> Nothing is worse than gEDA!!!!!
>
> Eagle is awful when you first encounter it.  I loaded and deleted it
> about 3 or 4 times before I finally spent some time with it as part of
> my evaluation of PCB CAD packages for our company.
>
> The key is, you have to learn to think like a German which is very
> very different than the rest of the world.

yep, must be that inverted grammar thing, had the same observation.
At least it's not RPN...

  Once that's done, Eagle is
> quite easy to use and one can be very productive.  There are very few
> features that I have ever desired that Eagle doesn't have.  Library
> management is probably the worst aspect.  For what I'm doing I'm quite
> satisfied with Eagle.
>
> I very much want to see KiCAD come up to professional standards and
> with the corporate backing, it probably will.  My only problem is that
> we have so much intellectual property in Eagle format that I'm kinda
> tied to it.
>

Are you on V6.x version? Those files are all ascii, XML syntax. A parser 
could be done to translate to most any format you have a definition 
for...and that's the problem, most are proprietary.

Curious: anyone have any comments on "Fritzing"? Another German thing, 
but free to use and also XML based.

-bill

>>
>> No one should have to put up with that.  As soon as I have enough,
>> investment shall we say, I'll buy an Altium license in a heartbeat.
>
> Gad, I couldn't imagine using anything with that kind of copy
> protection.  Ughhhh.
>
> John
> John DeArmond
> http://www.neon-john.com
> http://www.fluxeon.com
> Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
> See website for email address
>

On Wed, 02 Apr 2014 18:51:43 -0500, Tim Wescott wrote:

> So, I've been looking over a few shoulders lately and seeing Altium on
> screens, and thinking maybe I should move away from EagleCAD.
> 
> I looked on the Altium web site for pricing, and they're one of those
> "hand us one of your testicles and we'll tell you how much you need to
> pay to buy our product" sort of companies.
> 
> I just want a budgetary price for buying one seat in the US.
> 
> Anyone use it?  Have a recent version?  Know how much it costs?
> 
> I think I may stick with Eagle.

I got a email today from Altium.  Starting July 1 the pricing for a
stand alone license for Designer (capture/cad/sim) is $9,245

Lot of really nice features like multiple grids on a board, polar
grids, etc.  A lot of money for things I wont be using (at least
for now)

-- 
Chisolm
Republic of Texas

Joe Chisolm wrote:
> On Wed, 02 Apr 2014 18:51:43 -0500, Tim Wescott wrote:
> 
>> So, I've been looking over a few shoulders lately and seeing Altium on
>> screens, and thinking maybe I should move away from EagleCAD.
>>
>> I looked on the Altium web site for pricing, and they're one of those
>> "hand us one of your testicles and we'll tell you how much you need to
>> pay to buy our product" sort of companies.
>>
>> I just want a budgetary price for buying one seat in the US.
>>
>> Anyone use it?  Have a recent version?  Know how much it costs?
>>
>> I think I may stick with Eagle.
> 
> I got a email today from Altium.  Starting July 1 the pricing for a
> stand alone license for Designer (capture/cad/sim) is $9,245
> 
> Lot of really nice features like multiple grids on a board, polar
> grids, etc.  A lot of money for things I wont be using (at least
> for now)
> 

Tell them to count me out :-)

-- 
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Fri, 11 Apr 2014 17:04:01 -0500, Joe Chisolm
<jchisolm6@earthlink.net> wrote:

>On Wed, 02 Apr 2014 18:51:43 -0500, Tim Wescott wrote:
>
>> So, I've been looking over a few shoulders lately and seeing Altium on
>> screens, and thinking maybe I should move away from EagleCAD.
>> 
>> I looked on the Altium web site for pricing, and they're one of those
>> "hand us one of your testicles and we'll tell you how much you need to
>> pay to buy our product" sort of companies.
>> 
>> I just want a budgetary price for buying one seat in the US.
>> 
>> Anyone use it?  Have a recent version?  Know how much it costs?
>> 
>> I think I may stick with Eagle.
>
>I got a email today from Altium.  Starting July 1 the pricing for a
>stand alone license for Designer (capture/cad/sim) is $9,245
>
>Lot of really nice features like multiple grids on a board, polar
>grids, etc.  A lot of money for things I wont be using (at least
>for now)

Polar grids sound nice, but we haven't bothered upgrading to the
latest version. Last couple times I had to do a polar layout (rare!) I
just made a spreadsheet and entered the coordinates in manually. 

The new rigid-flex features do sound interesting. 

I think that at the ~10K price and with the feature set and learning
curve they have, it's not going to appeal much to the occasional user.
I think if you use it less than a 10% of the time (a few hours a week)
you're going to find it cumbersome and somewhat expensive. And there
are alternatives that are just cumbersome. ;-)

You should contact Altium. They will put you in touch with sales rep in your territory. I work for Altium and can't begin to tell you how much misinformation is found on these forums.