On Wednesday, December 25, 2013 3:35:26 PM UTC+2, Jan Panteltje wrote:> > >3. Efficiency will be low because transistor in linear mode. > > > > Normally everybody screams: 'switcher switcher switcher'. > > Switcher transistors have an efficiency problem if they cannot switch fast enough, > > power is dissipated during the on and of switching times. > > > > I was proposing (I dunno about that professor), to use a SINE wave converter.Yes. And main benefit of resonant converter is decreasing switching losses by switching when current is minimum. For linear amplifier theoretical efficiency only 78.5% http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amplifier#Class_B
new 30MHz to 300MHz switcher - worlds smallest laptop adapter
Started by ●December 25, 2013
Reply by ●December 25, 20132013-12-25
Reply by ●December 25, 20132013-12-25
On a sunny day (Wed, 25 Dec 2013 06:00:53 -0800 (PST)) it happened Artem <artem.bond@gmail.com> wrote in <1d3456ba-b033-44e2-acb5-6704ebc0c41f@googlegroups.com>:>On Wednesday, December 25, 2013 3:35:26 PM UTC+2, Jan Panteltje wrote: > >> >> >3. Efficiency will be low because transistor in linear mode. >> >> >> >> Normally everybody screams: 'switcher switcher switcher'. >> >> Switcher transistors have an efficiency problem if they cannot switch fast enough, >> >> power is dissipated during the on and of switching times. >> >> >> >> I was proposing (I dunno about that professor), to use a SINE wave converter. > > >Yes. And main benefit of resonant converter is decreasing switching losses by switching when current is minimum. >For linear amplifier theoretical efficiency only 78.5% >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amplifier#Class_BIt is interesting, I have read the discussion by Einstein and the guys who came up with the Copenhagen interpretation, see quantum mechanics.... And Einstein said: "God does not play dice", the reply from the QM club was: "Do not keep telling God what he can do and cannot do." So in that context, lets talk about the laws of nature. Can we change the laws of nature?: "No" Is God corrupt? Well, for 4.5 million dollars up front he _could_ change some laws of nature. No? "Do not keep telling God what he can and cannot do" Anyways I personally do not believe in the Copenhagen interpretation... But a lot of people have played with that theory and been funded by much more. MIT is payed with public money, and where is the circuit diagram? And we are not designing a linear amplifier...
Reply by ●December 25, 20132013-12-25
On Wednesday, December 25, 2013 8:14:48 AM UTC-5, Artem wrote:> On Wednesday, December 25, 2013 3:00:41 PM UTC+2, Jan Panteltje wrote: > > > On a sunny day (Wed, 25 Dec 2013 04:46:36 -0800 (PST)) it happened Artem > > > > > drivers, although low current, 100 mA at 230 V is already 23 W. > > > > 1. It's only for 110v power grid. > > 2. Bandwidth TV only 6.5 Mhz. > > 3. Efficiency will be low because transistor in linear mode.However annoying patents are, these things are always patented, and have to be. These guys filed in 2009. Without patents it wouldn't make sense to do all that work--make all that investment--only to have it ripped off the nanosecond you ship. The front end is a capacitive charge pump that charges many capacitors and switches in series, then flips another set of switches to discharge the caps in parallel, creating a raw output. A synchronous buck efficiently regulates the rough voltage thus created down to the desired output. It runs the switches and caps at HV in series, so only low voltage switches are needed. Ditto for the finishing regulator. http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=8212541.PN.&OS=PN/8212541&RS=PN/8212541 The main inventive notion here seems to have been getting the operations within the range of fast, low-voltage elements. I haven't looked at it in depth yet..time for Christmas! Cheers, James Arthur
Reply by ●December 25, 20132013-12-25
On a sunny day (Wed, 25 Dec 2013 06:32:57 -0800 (PST)) it happened dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote in <03dd3b10-02e5-4a31-8f0f-37a3f1cc1ab3@googlegroups.com>:>On Wednesday, December 25, 2013 8:14:48 AM UTC-5, Artem wrote: >> On Wednesday, December 25, 2013 3:00:41 PM UTC+2, Jan Panteltje wrote: >> >> > On a sunny day (Wed, 25 Dec 2013 04:46:36 -0800 (PST)) it happened Artem >> >> >> >> > drivers, although low current, 100 mA at 230 V is already 23 W. >> >> >> >> 1. It's only for 110v power grid. >> >> 2. Bandwidth TV only 6.5 Mhz. >> >> 3. Efficiency will be low because transistor in linear mode. > >However annoying patents are, these things are always patented, and >have to be. These guys filed in 2009. Without patents it wouldn't >make sense to do all that work--make all that investment--only >to have it ripped off the nanosecond you ship. > >The front end is a capacitive charge pump that charges many capacitors >and switches in series, then flips another set of switches to >discharge the caps in parallel, creating a raw output. A >synchronous buck efficiently regulates the rough voltage >thus created down to the desired output. > >It runs the switches and caps at HV in series, so only low >voltage switches are needed. Ditto for the finishing regulator. > >http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=82 >12541.PN.&OS=PN/8212541&RS=PN/8212541 > >The main inventive notion here seems to have been getting the operations >within the range of fast, low-voltage elements.The main problem with that kind of circuit is getting it approved from the point of view of mains insulation. Couple of kV spike on the mains should _not_ make it through to the device powered from it. The Tesla wireless transfer re-invention would not meet any local regulation in Europe for RF field intensity. I doubt this invention would, without any real transformer, be allowed. Would it survive a few kV test between input and output? Remember the output power connector can be touched by the user. Pity I cannot see the pictures in that patent in my browser.>I haven't looked at it in depth yet..time for Christmas! > >Cheers, >James Arthur >
Reply by ●December 25, 20132013-12-25
On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 20:29:14 -0800, Jamie M <jmorken@shaw.ca> wrote:>Hi, > >Here's a new SMPS switcher apparently coming out next year for laptops: > >http://phys.org/news/2013-12-circuit-laptop-charger-brick.html > >It apparently has a "power reclaiming scheme" for higher efficiency, >would this be conventional sync rectification or some other thing? > >It looks like power electronics is in for a big (r)evolution once the >300MHz+ designs start to spread! > >cheers, >JamieSounds like yet more MIT vaporware. I doubt that 0.1% of MIT's press-release inventions ever work. -- John Larkin Highland Technology Inc www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com Precision electronic instrumentation Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators Custom timing and laser controllers Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links VME analog, thermocouple, LVDT, synchro, tachometer Multichannel arbitrary waveform generators
Reply by ●December 25, 20132013-12-25
On Wed, 25 Dec 2013 08:21:45 -0800, John Larkin <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:>On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 20:29:14 -0800, Jamie M <jmorken@shaw.ca> wrote: > >>Hi, >> >>Here's a new SMPS switcher apparently coming out next year for laptops: >> >>http://phys.org/news/2013-12-circuit-laptop-charger-brick.html >> >>It apparently has a "power reclaiming scheme" for higher efficiency, >>would this be conventional sync rectification or some other thing? >> >>It looks like power electronics is in for a big (r)evolution once the >>300MHz+ designs start to spread! >> >>cheers, >>Jamie > >Sounds like yet more MIT vaporware. I doubt that 0.1% of MIT's press-release >inventions ever work.Tulane doesn't even have vaporware >:-} Tons of MIT's "vaporware" patents can be found in modern flat-screen TV's, mostly from MIT's Media Lab. ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson | mens | | Analog Innovations | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Reply by ●December 25, 20132013-12-25
In article <l9erte$ci1$1@news.albasani.net>, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:> On a sunny day (Wed, 25 Dec 2013 06:32:57 -0800 (PST)) it happened > dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote in > <03dd3b10-02e5-4a31-8f0f-37a3f1cc1ab3@googlegroups.com>: > > >On Wednesday, December 25, 2013 8:14:48 AM UTC-5, Artem wrote: > >> On Wednesday, December 25, 2013 3:00:41 PM UTC+2, Jan Panteltje wrote: > >> > >> > On a sunny day (Wed, 25 Dec 2013 04:46:36 -0800 (PST)) it happened Artem > >> > >> > >> > >> > drivers, although low current, 100 mA at 230 V is already 23 W. > >> > >> > >> > >> 1. It's only for 110v power grid. > >> > >> 2. Bandwidth TV only 6.5 Mhz. > >> > >> 3. Efficiency will be low because transistor in linear mode. > > > >However annoying patents are, these things are always patented, and > >have to be. These guys filed in 2009. Without patents it wouldn't > >make sense to do all that work--make all that investment--only > >to have it ripped off the nanosecond you ship. > > > >The front end is a capacitive charge pump that charges many capacitors > >and switches in series, then flips another set of switches to > >discharge the caps in parallel, creating a raw output. A > >synchronous buck efficiently regulates the rough voltage > >thus created down to the desired output. > > > >It runs the switches and caps at HV in series, so only low > >voltage switches are needed. Ditto for the finishing regulator. > > > > >>http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1 > >&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=82 > >12541.PN.&OS=PN/8212541&RS=PN/8212541 > > > >The main inventive notion here seems to have been getting the operations > >within the range of fast, low-voltage elements. > > > The main problem with that kind of circuit is getting it approved from the > point of view of mains insulation. > Couple of kV spike on the mains should _not_ make it through to the device > powered from it. > > The Tesla wireless transfer re-invention would not meet any local regulation > in Europe for RF field intensity. > I doubt this invention would, without any real transformer, be allowed. > Would it survive a few kV test between input and output? > Remember the output power connector can be touched by the user. > > Pity I cannot see the pictures in that patent in my browser...<http://www.pat2pdf.org> Or, Google patents. Joe Gwinn
Reply by ●December 25, 20132013-12-25
On Wed, 25 Dec 2013 12:12:59 -0500, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:>In article <l9erte$ci1$1@news.albasani.net>, Jan Panteltje ><pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> On a sunny day (Wed, 25 Dec 2013 06:32:57 -0800 (PST)) it happened >> dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote in >> <03dd3b10-02e5-4a31-8f0f-37a3f1cc1ab3@googlegroups.com>: >> >> >On Wednesday, December 25, 2013 8:14:48 AM UTC-5, Artem wrote: >> >> On Wednesday, December 25, 2013 3:00:41 PM UTC+2, Jan Panteltje wrote: >> >> >> >> > On a sunny day (Wed, 25 Dec 2013 04:46:36 -0800 (PST)) it happened Artem >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > drivers, although low current, 100 mA at 230 V is already 23 W. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> 1. It's only for 110v power grid. >> >> >> >> 2. Bandwidth TV only 6.5 Mhz. >> >> >> >> 3. Efficiency will be low because transistor in linear mode. >> > >> >However annoying patents are, these things are always patented, and >> >have to be. These guys filed in 2009. Without patents it wouldn't >> >make sense to do all that work--make all that investment--only >> >to have it ripped off the nanosecond you ship. >> > >> >The front end is a capacitive charge pump that charges many capacitors >> >and switches in series, then flips another set of switches to >> >discharge the caps in parallel, creating a raw output. A >> >synchronous buck efficiently regulates the rough voltage >> >thus created down to the desired output. >> > >> >It runs the switches and caps at HV in series, so only low >> >voltage switches are needed. Ditto for the finishing regulator. >> > >> >> >>http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1 >> >&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=82 >> >12541.PN.&OS=PN/8212541&RS=PN/8212541 >> > >> >The main inventive notion here seems to have been getting the operations >> >within the range of fast, low-voltage elements. >> >> >> The main problem with that kind of circuit is getting it approved from the >> point of view of mains insulation. >> Couple of kV spike on the mains should _not_ make it through to the device >> powered from it. >> >> The Tesla wireless transfer re-invention would not meet any local regulation >> in Europe for RF field intensity. >> I doubt this invention would, without any real transformer, be allowed. >> Would it survive a few kV test between input and output? >> Remember the output power connector can be touched by the user. >> >> Pity I cannot see the pictures in that patent in my browser. > >..<http://www.pat2pdf.org> > >Or, Google patents. > >Joe GwinnOr this one (my favorite)... <http://free.patentfetcher.com/Patent-Fetcher-Form.php> Wild looking front end in Patent 8212541... that must be the "vaporware" that larkin can't understand >:-} ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson | mens | | Analog Innovations | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Reply by ●December 25, 20132013-12-25
On a sunny day (Wed, 25 Dec 2013 12:12:59 -0500) it happened Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote in <251220131212596129%joegwinn@comcast.net>:>> The main problem with that kind of circuit is getting it approved from the >> point of view of mains insulation. >> Couple of kV spike on the mains should _not_ make it through to the device >> powered from it. >> >> The Tesla wireless transfer re-invention would not meet any local regulation >> in Europe for RF field intensity. >> I doubt this invention would, without any real transformer, be allowed. >> Would it survive a few kV test between input and output? >> Remember the output power connector can be touched by the user. >> >> Pity I cannot see the pictures in that patent in my browser. > >..<http://www.pat2pdf.org>Thank you, that is cool, forgot all baout that site. Yes it is like I thought it is, no mains isolation, this will never even pass a real test for certification here. Or am I missing some alien physics?
Reply by ●December 25, 20132013-12-25
On Wed, 25 Dec 2013 14:59:56 GMT, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:>On a sunny day (Wed, 25 Dec 2013 06:32:57 -0800 (PST)) it happened >dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote in ><03dd3b10-02e5-4a31-8f0f-37a3f1cc1ab3@googlegroups.com>: > >>On Wednesday, December 25, 2013 8:14:48 AM UTC-5, Artem wrote: >>> On Wednesday, December 25, 2013 3:00:41 PM UTC+2, Jan Panteltje wrote: >>> >>> > On a sunny day (Wed, 25 Dec 2013 04:46:36 -0800 (PST)) it happened Artem >>> >>> >>> >>> > drivers, although low current, 100 mA at 230 V is already 23 W. >>> >>> >>> >>> 1. It's only for 110v power grid. >>> >>> 2. Bandwidth TV only 6.5 Mhz. >>> >>> 3. Efficiency will be low because transistor in linear mode. >> >>However annoying patents are, these things are always patented, and >>have to be. These guys filed in 2009. Without patents it wouldn't >>make sense to do all that work--make all that investment--only >>to have it ripped off the nanosecond you ship. >> >>The front end is a capacitive charge pump that charges many capacitors >>and switches in series, then flips another set of switches to >>discharge the caps in parallel, creating a raw output. A >>synchronous buck efficiently regulates the rough voltage >>thus created down to the desired output. >> >>It runs the switches and caps at HV in series, so only low >>voltage switches are needed. Ditto for the finishing regulator. >> >>http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=82 >>12541.PN.&OS=PN/8212541&RS=PN/8212541 >> >>The main inventive notion here seems to have been getting the operations >>within the range of fast, low-voltage elements. > > >The main problem with that kind of circuit is getting it approved from the point of view of mains insulation. >Couple of kV spike on the mains should _not_ make it through to the device powered from it.Unless they replace the synchronous buck with some sort of isolated converter, there's nothing but silicon between the AC line and the customer. That will never pass CE or UL, or a simple hipot test. And there's nothing about this "new circuit" that lets it run efficiently at 300 MHz. All I see there is a synchronous buck with a step-wise pre-regulator. These gee-whiz inventions mostly fade away in a couple of years. It would be interesting to do a long-term study of the ratio of press-release inventions to commercial products. -- John Larkin Highland Technology Inc www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com Precision electronic instrumentation Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators Custom timing and laser controllers Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links VME analog, thermocouple, LVDT, synchro, tachometer Multichannel arbitrary waveform generators
