Forums

Crapacitors

Started by Unknown May 2, 2013
4.7uF 6.3V X5R
dC = -70% @ 6VDC (!!)
  http://psearch.murata.com/capacitor/product/GRM188R60J475ME19%23.pdf

James
dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote:
> 4.7uF 6.3V X5R > dC = -70% @ 6VDC (!!) > http://psearch.murata.com/capacitor/product/GRM188R60J475ME19%23.pdf > > James
that is pretty bad, but not a murata issue, vishas has a short doc on MLCCs http://www.vishay.com/docs/40144/capchange.pdf
On May 2, 4:32=A0pm, Cydrome Leader <prese...@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote:
> dagmargoodb...@yahoo.com wrote: > > 4.7uF 6.3V X5R > > dC =3D -70% @ 6VDC (!!) > > =A0http://psearch.murata.com/capacitor/product/GRM188R60J475ME19%23.pdf > > > James > > that is pretty bad, but not a murata issue, vishas has a short doc on > MLCCs > > http://www.vishay.com/docs/40144/capchange.pdf
Yep, it's a matter of high dielectric constant materials. Standard for Z5U[*], unexpected for X7R-types. The subject carpacitor(tm) was X5R, but looks more like Z5U than X7R. I'm looking at a few mfrs' offerings to see if anyone's dielectric is better... (*)(e.g. http://www.yageo.com/documents/recent/UPY-GPHC_Y5V_6.3V-to-50V_5.p= df) -- Cheers, James Arthur
On Thu, 2 May 2013 12:31:43 -0700 (PDT), dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com
wrote:

>4.7uF 6.3V X5R >dC = -70% @ 6VDC (!!) > http://psearch.murata.com/capacitor/product/GRM188R60J475ME19%23.pdf > >James
It's like a tantalum cap rated for X volts, with recommendation to never use it at X volts. (I actually use tantalum caps at rated voltage *if* there's not much charging current available. Otherwise, X/3 is about right.) -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com http://www.highlandtechnology.com Precision electronic instrumentation Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators Custom laser drivers and controllers Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links VME thermocouple, LVDT, synchro acquisition and simulation
On Thu, 02 May 2013 15:05:54 -0700, John Larkin
<jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 2 May 2013 12:31:43 -0700 (PDT), dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com >wrote: > >>4.7uF 6.3V X5R >>dC = -70% @ 6VDC (!!) >> http://psearch.murata.com/capacitor/product/GRM188R60J475ME19%23.pdf >> >>James > >It's like a tantalum cap rated for X volts, with recommendation to >never use it at X volts. > >(I actually use tantalum caps at rated voltage *if* there's not much >charging current available. Otherwise, X/3 is about right.)
--- Actually, I think what's being commented on is the unexpected tolerance of the capacitance of the cap rather than the cap's likelihood of failure as a function of charging current/terminal voltage. -- JF
Yuck.  Graph straight off the ceramic's D-E curve (compare: B-H curve), 
the derivative that is.  Only thing they don't show is hysteresis, which 
is bound to be comparable.

They need to start putting some air gap into those suckers!

Tim

-- 
Deep Friar: a very philosophical monk.
Website: http://seventransistorlabs.com

<dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com> wrote in message 
news:d88a9686-40c4-4391-90c7-e3efdb1af2ed@e14g2000yqp.googlegroups.com...
On May 2, 4:32 pm, Cydrome Leader <prese...@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote:
> dagmargoodb...@yahoo.com wrote: > > 4.7uF 6.3V X5R > > dC = -70% @ 6VDC (!!) > > http://psearch.murata.com/capacitor/product/GRM188R60J475ME19%23.pdf > > > James > > that is pretty bad, but not a murata issue, vishas has a short doc on > MLCCs > > http://www.vishay.com/docs/40144/capchange.pdf
Yep, it's a matter of high dielectric constant materials. Standard for Z5U[*], unexpected for X7R-types. The subject carpacitor(tm) was X5R, but looks more like Z5U than X7R. I'm looking at a few mfrs' offerings to see if anyone's dielectric is better... (*)(e.g. http://www.yageo.com/documents/recent/UPY-GPHC_Y5V_6.3V-to-50V_5.pdf) -- Cheers, James Arthur
dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote:
> 4.7uF 6.3V X5R > dC = -70% @ 6VDC (!!) > http://psearch.murata.com/capacitor/product/GRM188R60J475ME19%23.pdf > > James
Now when i tried to look at the PDF, my Adobe 9.0 wanted an "upgrade" by adding Japanese font. I said no, and got essentially blank pages. So, i retried, said yes and everything was there. Drawings, graphs, etc have NOTHING to do with Japanese, and only English was used. WTF??????????????? Crapadobe.
On Thu, 02 May 2013 17:31:05 -0800, Robert Baer
<robertbaer@localnet.com> wrote:

>dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote: >> 4.7uF 6.3V X5R >> dC = -70% @ 6VDC (!!) >> http://psearch.murata.com/capacitor/product/GRM188R60J475ME19%23.pdf >> >> James > Now when i tried to look at the PDF, my Adobe 9.0 wanted an "upgrade" >by adding Japanese font. > I said no, and got essentially blank pages. > So, i retried, said yes and everything was there. > Drawings, graphs, etc have NOTHING to do with Japanese, and only >English was used. > WTF??????????????? > Crapadobe.
--- You found a workaround, got what you wanted, and then cursed the source which fed you because they didn't have a silver spoon? That's disgraceful. -- JF
On Thu, 02 May 2013 18:29:42 -0500, John Fields
<jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 02 May 2013 15:05:54 -0700, John Larkin ><jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: > >>On Thu, 2 May 2013 12:31:43 -0700 (PDT), dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com >>wrote: >> >>>4.7uF 6.3V X5R >>>dC = -70% @ 6VDC (!!) >>> http://psearch.murata.com/capacitor/product/GRM188R60J475ME19%23.pdf >>> >>>James >> >>It's like a tantalum cap rated for X volts, with recommendation to >>never use it at X volts. >> >>(I actually use tantalum caps at rated voltage *if* there's not much >>charging current available. Otherwise, X/3 is about right.) > >--- >Actually, I think what's being commented on is the unexpected >tolerance of the capacitance of the cap rather than the cap's >likelihood of failure as a function of charging current/terminal >voltage.
What we're talking about is whether you can, in real life situations, actually use an X volt rated cap at X volts. Have you appointed yourself to be a net-cop on-topic thread-drift enforcer, or do you just try to find a reason to whine about anything that I post? Got anything useful to say about capacitors? Are you even interested in capacitors? -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com http://www.highlandtechnology.com Precision electronic instrumentation Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators Custom laser drivers and controllers Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links VME thermocouple, LVDT, synchro acquisition and simulation
On Thu, 02 May 2013 19:45:00 -0500, John Fields
<jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 02 May 2013 17:31:05 -0800, Robert Baer ><robertbaer@localnet.com> wrote: > >>dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote: >>> 4.7uF 6.3V X5R >>> dC = -70% @ 6VDC (!!) >>> http://psearch.murata.com/capacitor/product/GRM188R60J475ME19%23.pdf >>> >>> James >> Now when i tried to look at the PDF, my Adobe 9.0 wanted an "upgrade" >>by adding Japanese font. >> I said no, and got essentially blank pages. >> So, i retried, said yes and everything was there. >> Drawings, graphs, etc have NOTHING to do with Japanese, and only >>English was used. >> WTF??????????????? >> Crapadobe. > >--- >You found a workaround, got what you wanted, and then cursed the >source which fed you because they didn't have a silver spoon? > >That's disgraceful.
Geez, you are a crabby old git. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com http://www.highlandtechnology.com Precision electronic instrumentation Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators Custom laser drivers and controllers Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links VME thermocouple, LVDT, synchro acquisition and simulation