Jim Thompson wrote:> > On Sat, 02 Mar 2013 16:09:27 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> > wrote: > > >krw@attt.bizz wrote: > >> On Sat, 02 Mar 2013 09:03:38 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> > >> wrote: > > > >[...] > > > >>> But what I meant was PC sales in general, including laptops. Many older > >>> folks buy laptops these days because they don't want a space-hogging > >>> tower and monitor setup. And it's the saem thing there: Writing setup > >>> info that hardly ever changes into voltaile RAM is not smart. > >> > >> Who does that, with flash being so ubiquitous? > > > > > >Jeff brought an example, I don't know which mfgs use this: > > > >http://www.bioscentral.com/misc/cmosmap.htm# > > > >I have a Dell and the manual states that an image of the CMOS should be > >taken before removing the battery, in order to be able to restore the > >settings in there. But it fails to say how and what software to use for > >this. > > Maybe just write down the settings? There's not very many.Or just restore the defults on powerup?
OT: Can CMOS battery on PC motherboard be hot-swapped?
Started by ●February 24, 2013
Reply by ●March 2, 20132013-03-02
Reply by ●March 2, 20132013-03-02
On Sat, 02 Mar 2013 22:23:53 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:> Or just restore the defults on powerup?That works, but is full of traps that are often difficult to diagnose. The most common example is resetting the CMOS and discovering that the previously functional hard disk will not boot. On todays machines that is usually the SATA mode of either AHCI or ATA Emulation (or RAID if applicable). In the distant past, it was LBA mode. There are other (video window size, com port assignments, parallel port mode, etc) that will cause problems if reset to default. -- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
Reply by ●March 3, 20132013-03-03
On 2013-03-02, josephkk <joseph_barrett@sbcglobal.net> wrote:>> >>I'm currently within 50ms of UTC/ >> >> ...Jim Thompson > > You do not need an addon since Win2000/XP they do ntp natively, should be > within 1 ms or better.speaking NTP is half of the solution, clock scaling is the other half. without clock scaling you get serious jitter each time the clock is resynchronised. -- ⚂⚃ 100% natural --- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news@netfront.net ---
Reply by ●March 3, 20132013-03-03
On 2013-03-02, Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:> On Fri, 01 Mar 2013 20:09:27 -0800, josephkk ><joseph_barrett@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > >> >>You do not need an addon since Win2000/XP they do ntp natively, should be >>within 1 ms or better. >> > Socketwatch updates the clock once an hour. My statement was > technically incorrect... the 50ms was the last correction before I > read the clock. > > Socketwatch is automatic and settable to any interval desired and > checks _multiple_ time servers. > > Where is this Win2000/XP feature that does ntp automatically?microsoft calls it internet time, it's in the clock control panel somewhere -- ⚂⚃ 100% natural --- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news@netfront.net ---
Reply by ●March 3, 20132013-03-03
On 2013-03-02, josephkk <joseph_barrett@sbcglobal.net> wrote:> On Mon, 25 Feb 2013 10:39:04 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> > wrote: > >> >>Drivel: Many years ago, I decided that I wanted GPS accuracy on my >>office Unix server. I took the NEMA 183 output from an old Garmin 65 >>GPS, parsed the data with a shell script, and reset the PC clock >>according to the GPS time. What I forgot to include was a sanity >>check on the data. When the receiver lost sync, the GPS would produce >>00:00:00 etc as the current time. It took a while to clean up my log >>files and recover from that mistake. This is another reason why I >>don't do much programming. >> >>>What I really don't understand why in this day and age they don't write >>>the settings into flash. I mean, we even successfully do that on totally >>>cheapo uC design. >> >>Here's what's stored in the CMOS: >><http://www.bioscentral.com/misc/cmosmap.htm> >>Note that the first few bytes are the RTC current time and date (but >>not the TZ time zone). This info gets written to the CMOS chip once >>every second. If that were flash memory with an optimistic 100,000 >>write/erase cycles, the flash chip would be dead in several days. > > Way back in the early days of XTs you actually find the logic that > segregated those addresses from actual memory to the clock chip. Been > that way ever since. >The XT dodn't have an RTC, DOS would by default ask you the time on boot (all XT the clones I encountered did have an RTC but needed a vendor specific app to update the DOS clock from the RTC) the clock was in the I/O address space AIUI the first PC compatibles from IBM to ship with RTCs were 80286 based, but IIRC the 8086 based PS/2-30 had one too. -- ⚂⚃ 100% natural --- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news@netfront.net ---
Reply by ●March 3, 20132013-03-03
On 2013-03-02, josephkk <joseph_barrett@sbcglobal.net> wrote:> > The "CMOS" has long ago gone to flash onboard the southbridge chip. >Last week I was able to reset the CMOS on a modern (2012) board by shorting the battery contacts. I can't say for sure that Foxconn wasn't emulating CMOS by detecting the short or the loss of clock power. but It sure behaved like it was actual CMOS. I had configured the bord in such a way that the onbord display hardware was inactive and I needed to get it back, a brief visual search of the board didn't reveal a CMOS reset jumper. -- ⚂⚃ 100% natural
Reply by ●March 3, 20132013-03-03
On 3 Mar 2013 04:20:56 GMT, Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote:>On 2013-03-02, josephkk <joseph_barrett@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > >>> >>>I'm currently within 50ms of UTC/ >>> >>> ...Jim Thompson >> >> You do not need an addon since Win2000/XP they do ntp natively, should be >> within 1 ms or better. > >speaking NTP is half of the solution, clock scaling is the other half. >without clock scaling you get serious jitter each time the clock is >resynchronised.Your Internet connection has latencies and jitter as well. see what the FCC says about your hooks. See who they say the best is. http://www.broadband.gov/qualitytest/ookla.htm I get 24 down and send 20 up, and have 36ms latency with 2ms jitter. Damn near T3. Not bad for $50 a month.
Reply by ●March 3, 20132013-03-03
Jeff Liebermann wrote:> > On Sat, 02 Mar 2013 22:23:53 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell" > ?mike.terrell@earthlink.net? wrote: > > ? Or just restore the defults on powerup? > > That works, but is full of traps that are often difficult to diagnose. > The most common example is resetting the CMOS and discovering that the > previously functional hard disk will not boot. On todays machines > that is usually the SATA mode of either AHCI or ATA Emulation (or RAID > if applicable). In the distant past, it was LBA mode. There are > other (video window size, com port assignments, parallel port mode, > etc) that will cause problems if reset to default.Yes, but sometimes you have no choice. The dying battery has scrambled the contents, and the default gets you close. The one that got me the first time was the motherboard booting too fast for an older hard drive, and having to turn the memory test on in the BIOS to slow it down. That was early Pentium boards, if my memory is correct.
Reply by ●March 3, 20132013-03-03
Jasen Betts wrote:> > The XT dodn't have an RTC, DOS would by default ask you the time on > boot (all XT the clones I encountered did have an RTC but needed a > vendor specific app to update the DOS clock from the RTC) > the clock was in the I/O address spaceSome did. Some were on the clone motherboard, some pluged in under the BIOS Eprom and some were on a card. The cards were good sellers.
Reply by ●March 3, 20132013-03-03
On Sat, 02 Mar 2013 09:03:38 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> = wrote:>josephkk wrote: >> On Mon, 25 Feb 2013 12:43:01 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> =wrote:>>=20 >>>> True. It's the clock and status registers below 0Fh that get >>>> scribbled to constantly. One could split the CMOS function in half, >>>> with the lower half continuing to be CMOS, while the rest is changed >>>> to flash. However, that will add front end cost and additional >>>> complexity, which are not good things. >>>> >>> Wouldn't it be a zero-cost piece of cake to at least write those to =hard>>> disk and in case of finding a blank offer the user to restore from >>> there? Also, the BIOS is in flash so why not store there instead? >>=20 >> The "CMOS" has long ago gone to flash onboard the southbridge chip. >>> It would behove the industry to think about this because there is one >>> major reason why PC sales are slumping: The things became to darn >>> complicated for ol'Leroy. He does not want to face a pricey Geek =Squad>>> call every time some obtuse "unrecoverable error" has occurred. So he >>> invests his money into a smart phone instead. Because that's not >>> complicated. A PC is complicated. >>=20 >> I think you really missed the boat on this one. Desktops in the home =has>> hit saturation, but laptops for students and many other travel prone >> people is still growing. My latest laptop might be able to eat your 2 >> year old desktop for lunch performance wise; it is a real screamer. >>=20 > >And after 2h the fun is over, battery exhausted. I do heavy SPICE and a >laptop won't last long that way. The HD writes for the RAW files alone >are a major burden. > >But what I meant was PC sales in general, including laptops. Many older >folks buy laptops these days because they don't want a space-hogging >tower and monitor setup. And it's the saem thing there: Writing setup >info that hardly ever changes into voltaile RAM is not smart.It has a line cord and brick for doing the SPICE runs. Other than that i seem to get over 5 hours no problem. ?-)
