On Fri, 09 Nov 2012 20:39:10 -0800, Paul Drahn <pdrahn@webformixair.com> wrote:>On 11/9/2012 4:01 PM, Existential Angst wrote: >> OK..... >> >> So ahm happier'n'a alcoholic workin the night shift in a Jack Daniels >> distillery.... with my 400# deep cycle battery, 1500 W inverter (sitting >> in the back seat of m'truck), and my brand new blue electric >> blankey-poo..... >> Now I can curl up in a fetal position -- in m'truck -- in compleat toasty >> comfort..... >> >> Now, don't ax me WHY I gotta curl up in a fetal position -- in m'truck. >> Just suffice it to say, if you had my yob, you'd be curling up in a fetal >> position in YOUR truck, too. >> >> Except for one thing..... >> My g-d electric blankeypoo dudn't WORK with my 1500 W fukn inverter!!!!! >> WTF?????? >> >> And the reason quickly became clear: some electronics don't work with >> modified (read: shit) sine wave power. >> But, what electronics are in a g-d electric blanket??? >> >> So I take apart the three-heat controller, and lo and behold, the goddamm >> thing looks like the motherboard of a small PC.... holy shit.... for a >> $25 blankeypoo???? >> >> Tryna sleuth out the ""circuitry"" of this electric blanket reminds me of >> the two days I spent tryna fix a $2.00 flashlight.... unsuccessfully.... >> holy shit.... >> The blanket has three wires between it and the controller, but only two of >> the wires register continuity!! From which I surmised, via advanced Ohm's >> Law, that there is only one element in the blanket, and the controller >> actually does control voltage/current, ie, no switching among elements, cuz, >> well, there's only one element. >> . >> AND, the resistance is in fact the "right" resistance, cuz the wattage is 60 >> W (1/2 amp), and the ohms measure 230. >> >> So now I got an extree wire that I don't know wtf it does, amidst my awe of >> all this goddamm gratuitous complexity. >> >> Now, I do have an inkling surrounding this latest Conspiracy of Gratuitous >> Complexity -- whose fundamental purpose is, of course, to assfuck the entire >> Global Population up to their collective ileocecal valves, so that Orwell >> looks like summer fukn camp. >> It appears that this particular example (this blue electric blanket) of >> Gratuitous Complexity has to do with.....<shudder> <shudder> SAFETY!!!!! >> And of course the li'l CHILDREN....... >> >> Btw, a brief digression: >> You DO know that they now make crawling helmets for toddlers??? Yes >> indeedy, google helmets for babies crawling , and pick your link. >> Better yet, ORDER yours, right away, so's when you take the li'l future Wall >> Street predator-to-be to Montessori for his (first) pre-school interview, >> you'll be showing up correck. >> You yourself and the spouse should also wear matching bicycle helmets, as >> well, just to show Montessori that the whole Beaver family is indeed >> correck..... >> >> Back to this g-d blanket bidniss.... >> This shit blanket, for safety (it is UL listed btw), SHUTS OFF >> automatically EVERY GODDAMM HOUR!!!!WTF????? >> >> I mean, look, the g-d blanket is a *whole 60 effingW*!!!! My goddamm BODY >> puts out more heat than that.... >> fyi, Your BMR of about 1 cal/min is actually nearly exactly 70 W of heat.... >> which is why 10 blustering assholes in a meeting room make the place so >> goddamm hot. >> >> So some dumb QA engineering fuckhead sed, Oh, OH, 60 W -- spread over **24 >> sq ft of g-d blanket**, no less -- is MUCH too dangerous!!!! >> Sheeit, in that case, my 70 W of body heat puts me at risk for >> self-immolation, right??? >> >> Fuuuuuuuck, they couldn't have timed it for 8 hours?? 6 hours???? 4 >> hours????? WTF??????? >> >> So now, some while after the blanket shuts off, I'll freeze my goddamm ass >> off, have furtive nightmares, wake up, and flail around for the controller, >> just to reset it. >> So now I can't even g-d SLEEP worth a goddamm, in my fetal position -- and >> if you knew how long it takes me to get in that fetal position (in m'truck), >> you'd realize this is really a significant issue. >> >> OK.... so NOW ahm gettin it: >> SAFETY, and our precious li'l bratty g-d CHILDREN, require a solidstate >> automatic safety controller. Shitty li'l dropping resistors, or a xsformer, >> or split heating elements, just won't do it anymore. >> Now, they got a g-d controller in a $25 electric blanket that could have >> gotten Neil Armstrong to the g-d moon. >> >> Well, let me tell you, no one, but NO ONE messes with Angst's fetal >> position/sleep.... >> >> So I took that controller off (via the detachable connector) and >> hard-wire-crimped a shit 18 ga wire with a shit 99c-store two-in-a-pack >> unpolarized plug, so now's I got *60 uninterrupted W* of blazing power, >> blasting thru my li'l blue blankeypoo. What a fukn triumph..... >> >> My gripe against Gratuitous Complexity harks back to my erstwhile 1971 >> Datsun 510, which got better gas mileage than almost every effing car out >> here today, ceptin Volts'n'Prius'n'shit, and mebbe that VW TDI motor.... >> AND, I could fix it my goddamm self. >> And I think I drove around Hawaii about 25 g-d times in a Datsun B-210, on a >> gallon of gas. >> >> Now, cars are so fukn complicated..... >> >> HOW COMPLICATED ARE THEY??????? >> >> Cars are so fukn complicated, that factory Toyoter mechanics make more money >> than asshole college puhfessuhs..... AS THEY RIGHTLY SHOULD, cuz college >> professors are just absolutely fukn useless. goodgawd..... What a sham >> the college credit is, and a bankrupting sham at that. >> >> Cars now weigh 50% more than in the 70s.... and you can't even adjust the >> g-d IDLE!!!! >> Well, you can, I spose, with a laptop and about $1,000 worth of g-d >> programming..... >> >> Part of the Conspiracy behind Gratuitous Complexity is, imo, the desire to >> shut out the small entreepreeneer, bidnissman. A good fraction of the >> people on these ng's could *make their own perfectly navigable electric >> car*, with a welder, lathe, milling machine, some fukn batteries and a >> motor. Or mebbe just a welder, drill press, and an angle grinder.... >> But fukn Chevrolet and Nisan barely got *their* electric cars out, the >> regulatory ante is so goddamm high. Near $40K for a g-d electric motor and >> a bunch of g-d batteries.... >> >> So, inyway, Angst finally has his new blue blankeypoo blazing away, and I'll >> be fellatingly positioning myself in peaceful bliss tonite, in m'truck, with >> my 400# marine battery/1500W inverter right behind my blissful head. >> >> Oh shit, did I say "fellatingly"??? That would be "fetally", "fetally >> positioning myself in peaceful bliss"..... >Our old electric blanket died several years ago. It had the bimetalic >strip type control with the 0-10 dial. We loved it because we could turn >it on an hour before going to bed and the bed would be toasty warm when >we went to bed. > >It died and we got a new one and it would not preheat the bed. We >returned it to the manufacturer and they said it was working fine, but >sent a new blanked anyway. New worked the same way. > >I am convinced the thing knows when there is a body in the bed and when >there is not. It can be on for hours and the bed is still cold when we >go to bed. About 1/2 hour later, the blanket is warm, but we freeze >until then. Real POS design. > >PaulI was told that that last is indeed true. Something about internal sensing of warmth. They now use carbon fiber strands to heat rather than wires. I had one actually start burning over my feet, which woke me up rather suddenly. And I had to put out the burning fur of one fo the dogs who evidently had shorted out the wiring in his sleep. It was a close thing. The replacement wouldnt get warm..preheat at all and only would warm up like yours..after we were in bed. When I called the manufacture..they gave me info (pre stroke) on how it works..and I cant remember the details..but yeah...most of them dont preheat anymore. Gunner -- ""The Democratic constituency is just like a herd of cows. All you have to do is lay out enough silage and they come running. That�s why I became an operative working with Democrats. With Democrats all you have to do is make a lot of noise, lay out the hay, and be ready to use the ole cattle prod in case a few want to bolt the herd. Eighty percent of the people who call themselves Democrats don�t have a clue as to political reality. What amazes me is that you could take a group of people who are hard workers and convince them that they should support social programs that were the exact opposite of their own personal convictions. Put a little fear here and there and you can get people to vote any way you want. The voter is basically dumb and lazy. The reason I became a Democratic operative instead of a Republican was because there were more Democrats that didn�t have a clue than there were Republicans." James Carvell, DNC operative
Electric blankets, Gratuitous complexity??
Started by ●November 9, 2012
Reply by ●November 10, 20122012-11-10
Reply by ●November 10, 20122012-11-10
<clare@snyder.on.ca> wrote in message news:vvgr98pjt01nl2ecjpd93up4efd3b00084@4ax.com...> On Fri, 09 Nov 2012 20:01:00 -0600, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" > <lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote: > >>Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> fired this volley in >>news:ag5mgpF21h6U1@mid.individual.net: >> >>> Such circuits typically prevent current from flowing at all within a >>> half cycle, until a point is reached where the remainder of the half >>> cycle would deliver an amount of energy that would, if delivered over >>> the entire half cycle, represent the desired power. Once triggered, the >>> triac conducts until current drops below some smallish threshold. >>> >>> A circuit designed to do that with a sine-wave is going to be somewhat >>> thrown by an input that is a modified sine-wave. >>> >> >>I'm fully aware of how SCR and Triac (or generically, Thyristor) >>"dimmers" function, and how to build them (from scratch, without any >>supplied schematic). >> >>I'm also aware that a "modified sine wave" or "simulated sine wave" would >>satisfy the needs of most of that type of circuit, with the exception >>that the initial triggering and the the subsequent "near zero"-crossing >>cutoff might occur late and early, respectively, from where they ought. >> >>Such circuits don't work nicely on square waves, primarily because they >>don't have time to properly turn off. There's usually some capacitance >>in the gate circuit (sometimes driven by a diac) that prevents a very >>rapid change from full voltage through zero to the opposite polarity >>from lasting long enough below the quench voltage for the device to turn >>off. >> >>Such _can_ be the case with a simulated sine wave, where the voltage >>might go from (say) +10V-0--10V on a square edge. But most inverter >>companies realized a long (long) time ago that doing it that way causes >>problems, so they switched (pun) to a waveform that stays at zero long >>enough for such devices to turn off properly. >> >>Only a really old, or really cheap Chinese inverter would not have that >>feature. For all I know, he has both AND a cheap Chinese blanket that >>didn't take into consideration the problems it might see on old Chinese >>inverters. >> >>But it's not the case that simulated sine wave inverters universally >>cause problems with thyristor switches. >> >>LLoyd > What he NEEDS is a 12 volt blankie. My baby brother has been a long > distance trucker across north america, from Alaska to Florida - and > has 12 volt mattress warmer and 12 volt electric blanket for YEARS. > > Lost 'em both when he rolled the truck last year. Bust his neck too, > but he's back on the road - doing mostly short haul flatland driving > hauling crude - less than 2 years after the crash.I considered the 12V route -- blankets, heaters, seat warmers, all available, couild use the same deep cycle batt. But, I opted for 120 V stuff so I could use it inside the house as well as in the truck. But, the 12 V option might be better for some stuff. We'll see how it goes. I'm going to experiment with foiled-up 100 W light bulbs for heat, as well. Altho I also have a nice 9" Optimus parabolic heater, only 300 W -- don't yet know how to gauge wattage requirements of a small space that is exposed to the elements. My hot-wired blanket now works, and as far as the risk of fire goes, even at full blast, it's got a long long way to go before ignition... heh, famous last words, eh?? LOL -- EA
Reply by ●November 10, 20122012-11-10
snipped righteous rants etc... Products are designed to produce the best perceived value by the most customers...mitigated by applicable safety regulations. People who like to sleep in their truck are not the target demographic and never will be. If you expect to sleep "outside the box", you need to pick your electric blankets more carefully. Ranting won't help.
Reply by ●November 10, 20122012-11-10
Jamie <jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa_@charter.net> wrote:> Vic Smith wrote: > > > On Fri, 9 Nov 2012 19:01:11 -0500, "Existential Angst" > > <fitcat@optonline.net> wrote: > > > > > >>And the reason quickly became clear: some electronics don't work with > >>modified (read: shit) sine wave power. > > > > > > Well-known inverter - and cheap generator - gotcha. > > I mentioned it in one of these "inverter" posts regarding furnace > > control boards. Too bad you missed that. > > Only way to avoid the gotcha is to pay up for pure sine wave. > > Or, just put a small transformer on the affected device....or buy another blanket that is better designed. -- ~ Adrian Tuddenham ~ (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply) www.poppyrecords.co.uk
Reply by ●November 10, 20122012-11-10
On 2012-11-10, Mark <makolber@yahoo.com> wrote:> >> My g-d electric blankeypoo dudn't WORK with my 1500 W fukn inverter!!!!! >> WTF?????? >> >> And the reason quickly became clear: some electronics don't work with >> modified (read: shit) sine wave power. > > I noticed the same thing during the recent power failure.. > > The electronically controlled electric blanket will not run on my > modified sine inverter. > > I think the third wire might be connected to a thermistor or > temperature sensor in the blanket that the controller uses.it could just be a shield, an scr-controlled electric blanket would otherwise radiate EMI something fierce.> If you don't mind wrecking the controller, you could wire the heater > directly to the plug and use it on high... or wire in a switch with a > diode and have full and 1/2. That would also defeat the timer > function. Also beware this also might disable the overheat safety > feature.it would probably be bad for the inverter too.> I'm thinking about designing a filter that will round off the modified > sine enough so that the blanket can work with the inverter.an off-the-shelf line filter might do that. -- ⚂⚃ 100% natural --- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news@netfront.net ---
Reply by ●November 10, 20122012-11-10
clare@snyder.on.ca fired this volley in news:2omr98t4arl2kgo1kbe6bqadg9ns7i193b@4ax.com:> There ARE controllers that switch on the downward slope of the sine, > greatly reducung theRFI.Have you recently priced GTO triacs and SCRs? You won't find a turn-off style controller at consumer prices. LLoyd
Reply by ●November 10, 20122012-11-10
"tm" <No_one_home@white-house.gov> fired this volley in news:k7kogp$92f$1 @dont-email.me:> t's best when they switch on the zero crossings.It can't be a "duty cycle controller", and switch _only_ on the zero crossings. When a device only turns on and off at the AC zero crossings, we call it a "wire". LLoyd
Reply by ●November 10, 20122012-11-10
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" <lloydspinsidemindspring.com> fired this volley in news:XnsA1074E33CFABDlloydspmindspringcom@216.168.3.70:> When a device only turns on and off at the AC zero crossings, we callit> a "wire".Oh, and yes -- I know about those controllers that do switch only at the zero-crossings, but then count cycles to accomplish duty cycle control. Those are even more "gratuitously complex" than the others, but perhaps they've gotten that sort of control down into the $0.80USD range. That's about the price it would have to be to find its way into a consumer electric blanket. LLoyd
Reply by ●November 10, 20122012-11-10
On Sat, 10 Nov 2012 02:48:29 -0500, "Existential Angst" <fitcat@optonline.net> wrote:>My hot-wired blanket now works, and as far as the risk of fire goes, even at >full blast, it's got a long long way to go before ignition... heh, famous >last words, eh?? LOLIt sounds like you're on a parallel path to what I have in my motorhome. It had 2 tired deep cycle batteries which I replaced and added a third. If I remember right I have about 1kwh capacity to 50%. I bought a 1000W true sine inverter on sale for $150. Now I have more battery capacity for running the furnace heavily overnight when dry camping in cold temperatures. And I don't have to use the generator nearly so often. Even the inverter microwave is OK at half power. In my rig the bedroom is at the back. It stays cool when the rest of the coach is toasty. I've considered getting an electric blanket and running it off the inverter and then turning down the furnace thermostat overnight. I should break even on the battery use and come out ahead on propane. One wrinkle is that the furnace has an outlet into the holding tank compartment. If I run the furnace too little in below freezing temperatures then I'd have to worry about the dump valves freezing. I've traveled in the off season and my record so far for being comfortable is 14 degrees Fahrenheit. Man the RV crowd really thins out when it gets cold. :) If I get a chance to experiment further I'll report here.
Reply by ●November 10, 20122012-11-10
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" <lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote in message news:XnsA1074F4D41B31lloydspmindspringcom@216.168.3.70...> "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" <lloydspinsidemindspring.com> fired this volley in > news:XnsA1074E33CFABDlloydspmindspringcom@216.168.3.70: > >> When a device only turns on and off at the AC zero crossings, we call > it >> a "wire". > > Oh, and yes -- I know about those controllers that do switch only at the > zero-crossings, but then count cycles to accomplish duty cycle control. > > Those are even more "gratuitously complex" than the others, but perhaps > they've gotten that sort of control down into the $0.80USD range. That's > about the price it would have to be to find its way into a consumer > electric blanket. > > LLoyd > >A cheap pic could easily do that. It used to be a bi-metallic thermo switch.
