Nanoamp calibrator again

Am 03.06.2012 16:51, schrieb Joerg:

> Yeah, Phil needs to buy a bunch of this stuff and also get used to the
> 01005 SMT size if he has more such design jobs coming. You can't even
> see those anymore. And absolutely positively no sneezing on the job :-)
>
I once showed the Murata 01005 capacitor kit to a customer's
solder ladies. They were not amused :-)

Gerhard

On Sun, 03 Jun 2012 17:09:00 +0200, Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de> wrote:

>Am 03.06.2012 16:51, schrieb Joerg:
>
>> Yeah, Phil needs to buy a bunch of this stuff and also get used to the
>> 01005 SMT size if he has more such design jobs coming. You can't even
>> see those anymore. And absolutely positively no sneezing on the job :-)
>>
>I once showed the Murata 01005 capacitor kit to a customer's
>solder ladies. They were not amused :-)

I highly doubt we'll ever use them.  The MEs are balking at a few 0201
decoupling capacitors (needed for fine-pitched BGAs).  Everything (that can
be) is 0402s.  That's more than enough for my eyes (and dexterity), even with
a Mantis.

On Sat, 02 Jun 2012 16:01:43 -0700, Bill Sloman wrote:

> I used Firefox to look at your website, and cut and pasted from there
> into Notepad, which is the most innocuous of the Microsoft editors.

That's basically what I did, except I used gedit, rather than Notepad.

-- 
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence 
over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled."
                                       (Richard Feynman)

Bill Sloman wrote:
> 
> On Jun 2, 7:48 pm, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSensel...@electrooptical.net>
> wrote:
> > BillSlomanwrote:
> >
> > > On Jun 2, 6:16 pm, Fred Abse <excretatau...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> > > > On Fri, 01 Jun 2012 13:49:45 -0800, Robert Baer wrote:
> > > > >    OOPS! tried the LTC program and got the following errors:
> > > > > Questionable use of curly braces in "symattr spiceline rser=0.005
> > > > > lser={lcap}"
> > > > >      Error: undefined symbol in: "[lcap]"
> > > > > Questionable use of curly braces in "symattr value {lbead}"
> > > > >      Error: undefined symbol in: "[lbead]"
> > > > > Questionable use of curly braces in "symattr spiceline rpar={rpbead}"
> > > > >      Error: undefined symbol in: "[rpbead]"
> > > > > Questionable use of curly braces in "symattr value {rbi}"
> > > > >      Error: undefined symbol in: "[rbi]"
> > > > > Questionable use of curly braces in "symattr value {lbead}"
> > > > >      Error: undefined symbol in: "[lbead]"
> > > > > Questionable use of curly braces in "symattr spiceline rpar={rpbead}"
> > > > >      Error: undefined symbol in: "[rpbead]"
> > > > > Questionable use of curly braces in "symattr value {lbead}"
> > > > >      Error: undefined symbol in: "[lbead]"
> > > > > Questionable use of curly braces in "symattr spiceline rpar={rpbead}"
> > > > >      Error: undefined symbol in: "[rpbead]"
> > > > > Questionable use of curly braces in "symattr value {lbead}"
> > > > >      Error: undefined symbol in: "[lbead]"
> > > > > Questionable use of curly braces in "symattr spiceline rpar={rpbead}"
> > > > >      Error: undefined symbol in: "[rpbead]"
> > > > > Questionable use of curly braces in "symattr value {lbead}"
> > > > >      Error: undefined symbol in: "[lbead]"
> > > > > Questionable use of curly braces in "symattr spiceline rpar={rpbead}"
> > > > >      Error: undefined symbol in: "[rpbead]"
> > > > > Circuit: Version 4
> >
> > > > > Fatal Error: Multiple instances of "Flag"
> > > > >    Maybe one of the problems was that all of the files were in a folder
> > > > > on another drive.
> >
> > > > Ran first time for me.
> >
> > > Lucky you. I just got a long string of error messages, suggesting that
> > > whatever end-of-line symbol Phil uses in his longer Spice command
> > > strings isn't recognised as such by my version of LTSpice.
> >
> > I took the .asc file and copied it directly to the web host using sftp.
> > I suspect that your client mungs the line endings somehow.
> 
> I used Firefox to look at your website, and cut and pasted from there
> into Notepad, which is the most innocuous of the Microsoft editors. I
> use Notepad to open my own .asc files, and cut and paste from Notepad
> into Firefox to transfer LTSpice .asc files into my postings here, and
> that seems to work.
> 
> --
> Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

Maybe just right click and download it directly.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs
-- 
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
845-480-2058

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net

krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:
> On Sun, 03 Jun 2012 17:09:00 +0200, Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de> wrote:
> 
>> Am 03.06.2012 16:51, schrieb Joerg:
>>
>>> Yeah, Phil needs to buy a bunch of this stuff and also get used to the
>>> 01005 SMT size if he has more such design jobs coming. You can't even
>>> see those anymore. And absolutely positively no sneezing on the job :-)
>>>
>> I once showed the Murata 01005 capacitor kit to a customer's
>> solder ladies. They were not amused :-)
> 
> I highly doubt we'll ever use them.  The MEs are balking at a few 0201
> decoupling capacitors (needed for fine-pitched BGAs). ...


And exactly that is one of the sad, sad problems we have in the western
world. "Oh, that's too difficult!". In Asia they usually say "Ok, let's
see if we can get that done". If we don't push the envelope, someone
else will. Followed by jobs going away.


>                                                 ... Everything (that can
> be) is 0402s.  That's more than enough for my eyes (and dexterity), even with
> a Mantis.


That's ok, same here. But production folks need to get their hands
around that. Else their jobs will go away some day. At my previous
employer our MEs encountered the same attitude at the major
semiconductor equipment makers that your MEs professed: "You cannot do
flip-chip bonding to 5um precision". So we built it ourselves together
with a contract manufacturer where they didn't wet their pants when
looking at those specs. Not just one but untimately three machines. Old
saying: Man who says it cannot be done shall not stand in the way of man
doing it.

-- 
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Sun, 03 Jun 2012 09:39:04 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:
>> On Sun, 03 Jun 2012 17:09:00 +0200, Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de> wrote:
>> 
>>> Am 03.06.2012 16:51, schrieb Joerg:
>>>
>>>> Yeah, Phil needs to buy a bunch of this stuff and also get used to the
>>>> 01005 SMT size if he has more such design jobs coming. You can't even
>>>> see those anymore. And absolutely positively no sneezing on the job :-)
>>>>
>>> I once showed the Murata 01005 capacitor kit to a customer's
>>> solder ladies. They were not amused :-)
>> 
>> I highly doubt we'll ever use them.  The MEs are balking at a few 0201
>> decoupling capacitors (needed for fine-pitched BGAs). ...
>
>
>And exactly that is one of the sad, sad problems we have in the western
>world. "Oh, that's too difficult!". In Asia they usually say "Ok, let's
>see if we can get that done". If we don't push the envelope, someone
>else will. Followed by jobs going away.

Not too difficult.  Not reliable enough, or at least not proven so.
>
>>                                                 ... Everything (that can
>> be) is 0402s.  That's more than enough for my eyes (and dexterity), even with
>> a Mantis.
>
>
>That's ok, same here. But production folks need to get their hands
>around that. Else their jobs will go away some day. At my previous
>employer our MEs encountered the same attitude at the major
>semiconductor equipment makers that your MEs professed: "You cannot do
>flip-chip bonding to 5um precision". So we built it ourselves together
>with a contract manufacturer where they didn't wet their pants when
>looking at those specs. Not just one but untimately three machines. Old
>saying: Man who says it cannot be done shall not stand in the way of man
>doing it.

OTHO, just because it can be done, doesn't mean it should be done.  ;-)

On Sat, 02 Jun 2012 16:00:36 -0400, Phil Hobbs wrote:

> The .asy file is there on the webpage--the LTspice NPN symbol doesn't work
> with a subcircuit, so I had to make another one.

I already had one, but called it subckt_NPN, so, rather than rename
that, I used yours instead.

I've got subcircuit FETs, too.

-- 
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence 
over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled."
                                       (Richard Feynman)

On Sat, 02 Jun 2012 14:03:44 -0700, Joerg wrote:

> Take the 0402 side case but place the vias in the pads. Should get you
> under 0.2nH. Now place two of those, super-close to each other, run the
> signal trace down the middle of them (sideways), connect one on the left
> and one on the right. GND would then be vice versa, first right, then
> left. Now the loops are opposing and so are the parasitic magnetic fields,
> helping the cancel each other. Well, to some extent.

Ooh - I like that!

-- 
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence 
over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled."
                                       (Richard Feynman)

Joerg wrote:

> krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:
> 
>>On Sun, 03 Jun 2012 17:09:00 +0200, Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Am 03.06.2012 16:51, schrieb Joerg:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Yeah, Phil needs to buy a bunch of this stuff and also get used to the
>>>>01005 SMT size if he has more such design jobs coming. You can't even
>>>>see those anymore. And absolutely positively no sneezing on the job :-)
>>>>
>>>
>>>I once showed the Murata 01005 capacitor kit to a customer's
>>>solder ladies. They were not amused :-)
>>
>>I highly doubt we'll ever use them.  The MEs are balking at a few 0201
>>decoupling capacitors (needed for fine-pitched BGAs). ...
> 
> 
> 
> And exactly that is one of the sad, sad problems we have in the western
> world. "Oh, that's too difficult!". In Asia they usually say "Ok, let's
> see if we can get that done". If we don't push the envelope, someone
> else will. Followed by jobs going away.
> 
> 
> 
>>                                                ... Everything (that can
>>be) is 0402s.  That's more than enough for my eyes (and dexterity), even with
>>a Mantis.
> 
> 
> 
> That's ok, same here. But production folks need to get their hands
> around that. Else their jobs will go away some day. At my previous
> employer our MEs encountered the same attitude at the major
> semiconductor equipment makers that your MEs professed: "You cannot do
> flip-chip bonding to 5um precision". So we built it ourselves together
> with a contract manufacturer where they didn't wet their pants when
> looking at those specs. Not just one but untimately three machines. Old
> saying: Man who says it cannot be done shall not stand in the way of man
> doing it.
> 
  THen you were not listening to the man that said "It will not" be done :)

  I've had to deal with a prior engineer that filed a failure report on a
project and stated that it was a fail concept, not a failure their part,
just a bad concept that can not work.

   It's funny, because one of these concepts that I know of, got put in 
operation, working of course, and he got very testicle about it.

   It's amazing how one person can hold back advancement, just because 
they refuse to get others in involved that may have the answer to their
quest. You know, that face saving thing?

   In the old days, people would disappear if you crossed the line of 
the old mighty! Now days, they are found dead by an apparent suicide 
they could of no way done themselves.

Jamie

krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:
> On Sun, 03 Jun 2012 09:39:04 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> 
>> krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:
>>> On Sun, 03 Jun 2012 17:09:00 +0200, Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Am 03.06.2012 16:51, schrieb Joerg:
>>>>
>>>>> Yeah, Phil needs to buy a bunch of this stuff and also get used to the
>>>>> 01005 SMT size if he has more such design jobs coming. You can't even
>>>>> see those anymore. And absolutely positively no sneezing on the job :-)
>>>>>
>>>> I once showed the Murata 01005 capacitor kit to a customer's
>>>> solder ladies. They were not amused :-)
>>> I highly doubt we'll ever use them.  The MEs are balking at a few 0201
>>> decoupling capacitors (needed for fine-pitched BGAs). ...
>>
>> And exactly that is one of the sad, sad problems we have in the western
>> world. "Oh, that's too difficult!". In Asia they usually say "Ok, let's
>> see if we can get that done". If we don't push the envelope, someone
>> else will. Followed by jobs going away.
> 
> Not too difficult.  Not reliable enough, or at least not proven so.


I have seen boards with lots of 0201 on there where the solder job was
of excellent quality. From Asia. I don't think they'll have an issue
with 01005.


>>>                                                 ... Everything (that can
>>> be) is 0402s.  That's more than enough for my eyes (and dexterity), even with
>>> a Mantis.
>>
>> That's ok, same here. But production folks need to get their hands
>> around that. Else their jobs will go away some day. At my previous
>> employer our MEs encountered the same attitude at the major
>> semiconductor equipment makers that your MEs professed: "You cannot do
>> flip-chip bonding to 5um precision". So we built it ourselves together
>> with a contract manufacturer where they didn't wet their pants when
>> looking at those specs. Not just one but untimately three machines. Old
>> saying: Man who says it cannot be done shall not stand in the way of man
>> doing it.
> 
> OTHO, just because it can be done, doesn't mean it should be done.  ;-)


True, but if it provides an upside for the end customer then it has to
be done. One of our competitors found out the hard way and a few years
into it they threw in the towel, essentially ditching their whole
intravascular ultrasound business. This was HP Medical, no less.

-- 
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/