Fred Abse wrote:> On Wed, 28 Sep 2011 10:44:47 -0700, Joerg wrote: > >> The >> software and manual? Full of spelling bugs and stuff > > Reminds me of a manual written by compatriots of yours that I once read: > > "Manufactured with a pure technic" > > WTF does that mean? >Nothing. The technical term for the above phrasing is "sales jargon" or "marketing buzzwords." ;-) Hope This Helps! Rich (or marketing jargon, or sales buzzwords - mix and/or match to taste.)
How good is your scope? (problem with capturing offset signals)
Started by ●September 26, 2011
Reply by ●September 29, 20112011-09-29
Reply by ●September 29, 20112011-09-29
In article <j62jea$d9u$5@dont-email.me>, Rich Grise <richg@example.net.invalid> wrote:>> WTF does that mean?>Nothing. The technical term for the above phrasing is "sales jargon" >or "marketing buzzwords." ;-)>(or marketing jargon, or sales buzzwords - mix and/or match to taste.)I like the old term "bafflegab" :-) -- Dave Platt <dplatt@radagast.org> AE6EO Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!
Reply by ●September 30, 20112011-09-30
On Thu, 29 Sep 2011 13:07:17 -0700, Rich Grise wrote:> Fred Abse wrote: >> On Wed, 28 Sep 2011 10:44:47 -0700, Joerg wrote: >> >>> The >>> software and manual? Full of spelling bugs and stuff >> >> Reminds me of a manual written by compatriots of yours that I once read: >> >> "Manufactured with a pure technic" >> >> WTF does that mean? >> > Nothing. The technical term for the above phrasing is "sales jargon" > or "marketing buzzwords." ;-) > > Hope This Helps! > Rich > (or marketing jargon, or sales buzzwords - mix and/or match to taste.)It was in a service manual for some German kit. Translated from the deutsch by some non=technical minion, probably. This was before the days of computer translation, and all that jazz, -- "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." (Richard Feynman)
Reply by ●September 30, 20112011-09-30
On Wed, 28 Sep 2011 19:17:06 -0400, Jamie wrote:> I have a 20mhz Ab Rigol that just seems to work perfectly. Not bad for > chinese junk.How far will it let you window more than one screen height? I wouldn't have thought there would be much market for <100MHz 'scopes these days. -- "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." (Richard Feynman)
Reply by ●September 30, 20112011-09-30
Fred Abse wrote:> On Wed, 28 Sep 2011 19:17:06 -0400, Jamie wrote: > >> I have a 20mhz Ab Rigol that just seems to work perfectly. Not bad for >> chinese junk. > > How far will it let you window more than one screen height? > > I wouldn't have thought there would be much market for <100MHz 'scopes > these days. >Depends on what you do. For hobby or if you probe around in industrial control gear all day then it may be all you really need. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Reply by ●September 30, 20112011-09-30
Klaus Bahner wrote:> Besides set I only can tell you that I never ran into this problem with > my LeCroy scope and I did that kind of overdrive measurements on an > almost daily basis. So, if this is problem is for real, then I dare > conclude that not all scopes are affected by it :-) > > KlausYes, they are all different. It's too bad that no efforts are made to specify this behavior in the specs. But admittedly, this would be challenging. -- _____________________ Mr.CRC crobcBOGUS@REMOVETHISsbcglobal.net SuSE 10.3 Linux 2.6.22.17
Reply by ●September 30, 20112011-09-30
On Fri, 30 Sep 2011 10:57:08 -0700, Mr.CRC wrote:> Klaus Bahner wrote: >> Besides set I only can tell you that I never ran into this problem with >> my LeCroy scope and I did that kind of overdrive measurements on an >> almost daily basis. So, if this is problem is for real, then I dare >> conclude that not all scopes are affected by it :-) >> >> Klaus > > > Yes, they are all different. It's too bad that no efforts are made to > specify this behavior in the specs. But admittedly, this would be > challenging.Specification of a Tek 7A13 vertical amplifier plugin manages to specify this behavior: Maximum input voltage, (DC direct coupled) at each input attenuator setting. Not challenging to specify, but they were proud of this particular aspect of performance, not, as I suspect most modern manufacturers are, ashamed of it. -- "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." (Richard Feynman)
Reply by ●October 1, 20112011-10-01
On 30 Sep., 22:28, Fred Abse <excretatau...@invalid.invalid> wrote:> On Fri, 30 Sep 2011 10:57:08 -0700, Mr.CRC wrote: > > Klaus Bahner wrote: > >> Besides set I only can tell you that I never ran into this problem wit=h> >> my LeCroy scope and I did that kind of overdrive measurements on an > >> almost daily basis. So, if this is problem is for real, then I dare > >> conclude that not all scopes are affected by it :-) > > >> Klaus > > > Yes, they are all different. =A0It's too bad that no efforts are made t=o> > specify this behavior in the specs. =A0But admittedly, this would be > > challenging. > > Specification of a Tek 7A13 vertical amplifier plugin manages to =A0speci=fy> this behavior: > > Maximum input voltage, (DC direct coupled) at each input attenuator > setting. > > Not challenging to specify, but they were proud of this particular aspect > of performance, not, as I suspect most modern manufacturers are, ashamed > of it. > > -- > "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence > over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 ==A0 =A0(Richard Feynman) The Tek 7A26S module Joerg spoke of, has a definition of maximum 75 times overdrive. Quite good, but the overdrive takes 100us to recover (worst case specs) As for the Tek DPO 5000, I dug deeper into it, and found that the majority of the problem (guess 70%) is actually from the TPP0500 probe. A test with a P6139 probe provided much better results. We are returning those TPP0500 probes for sure... Regards Klaus
Reply by ●October 1, 20112011-10-01
Klaus Kragelund wrote:> On 30 Sep., 22:28, Fred Abse <excretatau...@invalid.invalid> wrote: >> On Fri, 30 Sep 2011 10:57:08 -0700, Mr.CRC wrote: >>> Klaus Bahner wrote: >>>> Besides set I only can tell you that I never ran into this problem with >>>> my LeCroy scope and I did that kind of overdrive measurements on an >>>> almost daily basis. So, if this is problem is for real, then I dare >>>> conclude that not all scopes are affected by it :-) >>>> Klaus >>> Yes, they are all different. It's too bad that no efforts are made to >>> specify this behavior in the specs. But admittedly, this would be >>> challenging. >> Specification of a Tek 7A13 vertical amplifier plugin manages to specify >> this behavior: >> >> Maximum input voltage, (DC direct coupled) at each input attenuator >> setting. >> >> Not challenging to specify, but they were proud of this particular aspect >> of performance, not, as I suspect most modern manufacturers are, ashamed >> of it. >> >> -- >> "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence >> over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." >> (Richard Feynman) > > The Tek 7A26S module Joerg spoke of, has a definition of maximum 75 > times overdrive. Quite good, but the overdrive takes 100us to recover > (worst case specs) >I don't know why they wrote that. Maybe those dreaded lawsuits came up in the 70's and they didn't want exposure :-) So I just tried it out with the 7A26 here. Put a 50MHz square wave in it, then cranked it up to over 100x overdrive. No noticeable recovery time at all.> As for the Tek DPO 5000, I dug deeper into it, and found that the > majority of the problem (guess 70%) is actually from the TPP0500 > probe. A test with a P6139 probe provided much better results. We are > returning those TPP0500 probes for sure... >Strange. How can a passive probe do that? -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Reply by ●October 3, 20112011-10-03
On 2 Okt., 01:43, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:> Klaus Kragelund wrote: > > On 30 Sep., 22:28, Fred Abse <excretatau...@invalid.invalid> wrote: > >> On Fri, 30 Sep 2011 10:57:08 -0700, Mr.CRC wrote: > >>> Klaus Bahner wrote: > >>>> Besides set I only can tell you that I never ran into this problem w=ith> >>>> my LeCroy scope and I did that kind of overdrive measurements on an > >>>> almost daily basis. So, if this is problem is for real, then I dare > >>>> conclude that not all scopes are affected by it :-) > >>>> Klaus > >>> Yes, they are all different. =A0It's too bad that no efforts are made=to> >>> specify this behavior in the specs. =A0But admittedly, this would be > >>> challenging. > >> Specification of a Tek 7A13 vertical amplifier plugin manages to =A0sp=ecify> >> this behavior: > > >> Maximum input voltage, (DC direct coupled) at each input attenuator > >> setting. > > >> Not challenging to specify, but they were proud of this particular asp=ect> >> of performance, not, as I suspect most modern manufacturers are, asham=ed> >> of it. > > >> -- > >> "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence > >> over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." > >> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 ==A0 =A0 =A0(Richard Feynman)> > > The Tek 7A26S module Joerg spoke of, has a definition of maximum 75 > > times overdrive. Quite good, but the overdrive takes 100us to recover > > (worst case specs) > > I don't know why they wrote that. Maybe those dreaded lawsuits came up > in the 70's and they didn't want exposure :-) > > So I just tried it out with the 7A26 here. Put a 50MHz square wave in > it, then cranked it up to over 100x overdrive. No noticeable recovery > time at all. > > > As for the Tek DPO 5000, I dug deeper into it, and found that the > > majority of the problem (guess 70%) is actually from the TPP0500 > > probe. A test with a P6139 probe provided much better results. We are > > returning those TPP0500 probes for sure... > > Strange. How can a passive probe do that? > > -- > Regards, Joerg > > http://www.analogconsultants.com/- Skjul tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - > > - Vis tekst i anf=F8rselstegn -The datasheet lists it as a passive probe, but it is supplied with power, probably for some relays and other gimmicks they have inside the probe. When Volt/div is changed clicking can be heard, so its probably not a 100% passive probe, only it does not have an amplifier per se..... Regards Klaus
