On Fri, 29 Apr 2011 05:46:19 -0700, John Larkin <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:>On Fri, 29 Apr 2011 05:29:49 -0500, John Fields ><jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote: > >>On Thu, 28 Apr 2011 21:51:08 -0700, John Larkin >><jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: >> >>>On Thu, 28 Apr 2011 21:43:15 -0700, The_Giant_Rat_of_Sumatra >>><GeorgeTirebiter@drmemory.org> wrote: >>> >>>>On Thu, 28 Apr 2011 18:35:05 -0500, John KD5YI <sophi.2@invalid.org> >>>>wrote: >>>> >>>>>On 4/28/2011 5:59 PM, John Larkin wrote: >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -------------o >>>>>> /|\ >>>>>> / | \ >>>>>> / | \ >>>>>> | | | >>>>>> | | | >>>>>> | | | >>>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>>I used connections similar to this on my schematics to emphasize that >>>>>the wires need to be connected at one and only one point, usually to a >>>>>ground lug. >>>> >>>> It is an improper node formation. >>> >>>Thanks for the opinion, but I actually asked John Fields how he felt >>>about the two examples I posted. No answer. >>> >>>John >> >>--- >>Now you're dictating what's timely and what isn't? >> >>You _do_ have a problem! > >Well, you did disappear from the conversation. I was afraid you'd had >a stroke or something, fell and couldn't get up. > >JohnWhen I examine the timeline of posts, I see no such absence. Other than that of your intellect, that is, if it ever existed, that is.
Stability of older Orcad/PSpice combos?
Started by ●April 24, 2011
Reply by ●April 29, 20112011-04-29
Reply by ●April 29, 20112011-04-29
On Fri, 29 Apr 2011 06:40:59 -0700, The_Giant_Rat_of_Sumatra <GeorgeTirebiter@drmemory.org> wrote:>On Fri, 29 Apr 2011 05:46:19 -0700, John Larkin ><jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: > >>On Fri, 29 Apr 2011 05:29:49 -0500, John Fields >><jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote: >> >>>On Thu, 28 Apr 2011 21:51:08 -0700, John Larkin >>><jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: >>> >>>>On Thu, 28 Apr 2011 21:43:15 -0700, The_Giant_Rat_of_Sumatra >>>><GeorgeTirebiter@drmemory.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>>On Thu, 28 Apr 2011 18:35:05 -0500, John KD5YI <sophi.2@invalid.org> >>>>>wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On 4/28/2011 5:59 PM, John Larkin wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -------------o >>>>>>> /|\ >>>>>>> / | \ >>>>>>> / | \ >>>>>>> | | | >>>>>>> | | | >>>>>>> | | | >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>I used connections similar to this on my schematics to emphasize that >>>>>>the wires need to be connected at one and only one point, usually to a >>>>>>ground lug. >>>>> >>>>> It is an improper node formation. >>>> >>>>Thanks for the opinion, but I actually asked John Fields how he felt >>>>about the two examples I posted. No answer. >>>> >>>>John >>> >>>--- >>>Now you're dictating what's timely and what isn't? >>> >>>You _do_ have a problem! >> >>Well, you did disappear from the conversation. I was afraid you'd had >>a stroke or something, fell and couldn't get up. >> >>John > > When I examine the timeline of posts, I see no such absence.Gosh. Seen a doctor lately? John
Reply by ●April 29, 20112011-04-29
krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:> On Thu, 28 Apr 2011 18:29:41 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote: > >> Joel Koltner wrote: >>> "Joerg" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message >>> news:91uh7cFuu8U1@mid.individual.net... >>>> Orcad also seems fussy about replacing parts. Delete one, pick new part, >>>> move over, click to place ... refuses. Same symbol, no dice. First the >>>> wires need to be deleted, part placed, then new wires drawn. Probably I >>>> didn't use some magic trick but man, that's the opposite of intuitive. >>> Check that you have Options->Preferences->Miscellaneous->Wire >>> Drag->Allow Component Move With Connectivity Changes checked? (It isn't >>> checked after a default installation.) >>> >> Just tried it but unchecked it again. It does then accept parts to be >> scooted into position but when moving them it breaks connections. Not so >> cool. Cadence should buy a copy of Eagle and see how it's done :-) >> >> >>> Also, in case you aren't aware of this... if you Alt-drag a part, it'll >>> purposely *not* drag its wires along with it. (...and Ctrl+dragging a >>> part duplicates it, as happens in most Windows programs.) >>> >> Another annoying "feature" of Orcad is that it pushes wires upon block >> moves. Meaing some cleanup after evey move, including some contortion >> art. Makes no sense. SDT didn't do that, but that was from the good old >> times. > > You can Cntl-uncheck wires before the move. Uncheck them in the segment > *before* the segment you don't want to "push". Also, only push in one > direction at a time. It's dumb but not as bad as you indicate. OTOH, bundle > (bus) operation is backwards. There, you want to select the segment. ...and > taps still get messed up no matter what you do.Ok, but why on earth do I have to uncheck wires when such behavior is never desired by anyone in his right mind? The guys who write this stuff should occasionally do an actual design :-) -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. Use another domain or send PM.
Reply by ●April 29, 20112011-04-29
The_Giant_Rat_of_Sumatra wrote:> On Thu, 28 Apr 2011 13:25:28 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> > wrote: > >> Yep. Found that out the hard way. Now that I have set auto-backup to 300 >> minutes (essentially meaning never because by then I am on the next >> schematic) the number of crashes is lower. > > Have you tried zero?Oh no, I am not going to try anything like that with software that has behaved unstable right from the beginning. That's like walking a plank and trying to see what happens if you step onto the edge. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. Use another domain or send PM.
Reply by ●April 29, 20112011-04-29
On Fri, 29 Apr 2011 07:14:49 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:>krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote: >> On Thu, 28 Apr 2011 18:29:41 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote: >> >>> Joel Koltner wrote: >>>> "Joerg" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message >>>> news:91uh7cFuu8U1@mid.individual.net... >>>>> Orcad also seems fussy about replacing parts. Delete one, pick new part, >>>>> move over, click to place ... refuses. Same symbol, no dice. First the >>>>> wires need to be deleted, part placed, then new wires drawn. Probably I >>>>> didn't use some magic trick but man, that's the opposite of intuitive. >>>> Check that you have Options->Preferences->Miscellaneous->Wire >>>> Drag->Allow Component Move With Connectivity Changes checked? (It isn't >>>> checked after a default installation.) >>>> >>> Just tried it but unchecked it again. It does then accept parts to be >>> scooted into position but when moving them it breaks connections. Not so >>> cool. Cadence should buy a copy of Eagle and see how it's done :-) >>> >>> >>>> Also, in case you aren't aware of this... if you Alt-drag a part, it'll >>>> purposely *not* drag its wires along with it. (...and Ctrl+dragging a >>>> part duplicates it, as happens in most Windows programs.) >>>> >>> Another annoying "feature" of Orcad is that it pushes wires upon block >>> moves. Meaing some cleanup after evey move, including some contortion >>> art. Makes no sense. SDT didn't do that, but that was from the good old >>> times. >> >> You can Cntl-uncheck wires before the move. Uncheck them in the segment >> *before* the segment you don't want to "push". Also, only push in one >> direction at a time. It's dumb but not as bad as you indicate. OTOH, bundle >> (bus) operation is backwards. There, you want to select the segment. ...and >> taps still get messed up no matter what you do. > > >Ok, but why on earth do I have to uncheck wires when such behavior is >never desired by anyone in his right mind? The guys who write this stuff >should occasionally do an actual design :-)The thing I like about PADS is that is isn't some Paint program kluged for electronics, it was obviously written to enter schematics. A wire isn't a line on a screen, it's a connection. If you ever try to end it without making a true connection, it snaps out of existence. If you delete a connection, all of it disappears, without dangling segments. John
Reply by ●April 29, 20112011-04-29
On Fri, 29 Apr 2011 04:34:42 -0500, John Fields <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:>On Thu, 28 Apr 2011 15:59:13 -0700, John Larkin ><jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: >[snip]> >>How do you feel about upside-down grounds? >> >> >> - >> --- >> ----- >> | >> | >> | >> | >> >--- >That's just hideous. >--- > >>Or a connection that looks like >> >> >>------------o >> /|\ >> / | \ >> / | \ >> | | | >> | | | >> | | | >> >> >>? > >--- >If there's a good reason for it, then I can't see why there's be any >objection to it.See my post on annotating star grounds, etc. ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | Remember: Once you go over the hill, you pick up speed
Reply by ●April 29, 20112011-04-29
On Fri, 29 Apr 2011 07:14:49 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:>krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote: >> On Thu, 28 Apr 2011 18:29:41 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote: >> >>> Joel Koltner wrote: >>>> "Joerg" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message >>>> news:91uh7cFuu8U1@mid.individual.net... >>>>> Orcad also seems fussy about replacing parts. Delete one, pick new part, >>>>> move over, click to place ... refuses. Same symbol, no dice. First the >>>>> wires need to be deleted, part placed, then new wires drawn. Probably I >>>>> didn't use some magic trick but man, that's the opposite of intuitive. >>>> Check that you have Options->Preferences->Miscellaneous->Wire >>>> Drag->Allow Component Move With Connectivity Changes checked? (It isn't >>>> checked after a default installation.) >>>> >>> Just tried it but unchecked it again. It does then accept parts to be >>> scooted into position but when moving them it breaks connections. Not so >>> cool. Cadence should buy a copy of Eagle and see how it's done :-) >>> >>> >>>> Also, in case you aren't aware of this... if you Alt-drag a part, it'll >>>> purposely *not* drag its wires along with it. (...and Ctrl+dragging a >>>> part duplicates it, as happens in most Windows programs.) >>>> >>> Another annoying "feature" of Orcad is that it pushes wires upon block >>> moves. Meaing some cleanup after evey move, including some contortion >>> art. Makes no sense. SDT didn't do that, but that was from the good old >>> times. >> >> You can Cntl-uncheck wires before the move. Uncheck them in the segment >> *before* the segment you don't want to "push". Also, only push in one >> direction at a time. It's dumb but not as bad as you indicate. OTOH, bundle >> (bus) operation is backwards. There, you want to select the segment. ...and >> taps still get messed up no matter what you do. > > >Ok, but why on earth do I have to uncheck wires when such behavior is >never desired by anyone in his right mind? The guys who write this stuff >should occasionally do an actual design :-)Amateur. I regularly select a block, then unselect "stubs" that I don't want to drag (or move). ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | Remember: Once you go over the hill, you pick up speed
Reply by ●April 29, 20112011-04-29
Jim Thompson wrote:> On Fri, 29 Apr 2011 07:14:49 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> > wrote: > >> krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote: >>> On Thu, 28 Apr 2011 18:29:41 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>> >>>> Joel Koltner wrote: >>>>> "Joerg" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message >>>>> news:91uh7cFuu8U1@mid.individual.net... >>>>>> Orcad also seems fussy about replacing parts. Delete one, pick new part, >>>>>> move over, click to place ... refuses. Same symbol, no dice. First the >>>>>> wires need to be deleted, part placed, then new wires drawn. Probably I >>>>>> didn't use some magic trick but man, that's the opposite of intuitive. >>>>> Check that you have Options->Preferences->Miscellaneous->Wire >>>>> Drag->Allow Component Move With Connectivity Changes checked? (It isn't >>>>> checked after a default installation.) >>>>> >>>> Just tried it but unchecked it again. It does then accept parts to be >>>> scooted into position but when moving them it breaks connections. Not so >>>> cool. Cadence should buy a copy of Eagle and see how it's done :-) >>>> >>>> >>>>> Also, in case you aren't aware of this... if you Alt-drag a part, it'll >>>>> purposely *not* drag its wires along with it. (...and Ctrl+dragging a >>>>> part duplicates it, as happens in most Windows programs.) >>>>> >>>> Another annoying "feature" of Orcad is that it pushes wires upon block >>>> moves. Meaing some cleanup after evey move, including some contortion >>>> art. Makes no sense. SDT didn't do that, but that was from the good old >>>> times. >>> You can Cntl-uncheck wires before the move. Uncheck them in the segment >>> *before* the segment you don't want to "push". Also, only push in one >>> direction at a time. It's dumb but not as bad as you indicate. OTOH, bundle >>> (bus) operation is backwards. There, you want to select the segment. ...and >>> taps still get messed up no matter what you do. >> >> Ok, but why on earth do I have to uncheck wires when such behavior is >> never desired by anyone in his right mind? The guys who write this stuff >> should occasionally do an actual design :-) > > Amateur. I regularly select a block, then unselect "stubs" that I > don't want to drag (or move). >Try Eagle some day. It doesn't require such nonsense, it just works. It is IMHO a much better schematic editor. Exactly what good does it do that wires push into the rest of the schematic without first unselecting them? -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. Use another domain or send PM.
Reply by ●April 29, 20112011-04-29
On Fri, 29 Apr 2011 08:42:20 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:>Jim Thompson wrote: >> On Fri, 29 Apr 2011 07:14:49 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> >> wrote: >> >>> krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote: >>>> On Thu, 28 Apr 2011 18:29:41 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Joel Koltner wrote: >>>>>> "Joerg" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message >>>>>> news:91uh7cFuu8U1@mid.individual.net... >>>>>>> Orcad also seems fussy about replacing parts. Delete one, pick new part, >>>>>>> move over, click to place ... refuses. Same symbol, no dice. First the >>>>>>> wires need to be deleted, part placed, then new wires drawn. Probably I >>>>>>> didn't use some magic trick but man, that's the opposite of intuitive. >>>>>> Check that you have Options->Preferences->Miscellaneous->Wire >>>>>> Drag->Allow Component Move With Connectivity Changes checked? (It isn't >>>>>> checked after a default installation.) >>>>>> >>>>> Just tried it but unchecked it again. It does then accept parts to be >>>>> scooted into position but when moving them it breaks connections. Not so >>>>> cool. Cadence should buy a copy of Eagle and see how it's done :-) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Also, in case you aren't aware of this... if you Alt-drag a part, it'll >>>>>> purposely *not* drag its wires along with it. (...and Ctrl+dragging a >>>>>> part duplicates it, as happens in most Windows programs.) >>>>>> >>>>> Another annoying "feature" of Orcad is that it pushes wires upon block >>>>> moves. Meaing some cleanup after evey move, including some contortion >>>>> art. Makes no sense. SDT didn't do that, but that was from the good old >>>>> times. >>>> You can Cntl-uncheck wires before the move. Uncheck them in the segment >>>> *before* the segment you don't want to "push". Also, only push in one >>>> direction at a time. It's dumb but not as bad as you indicate. OTOH, bundle >>>> (bus) operation is backwards. There, you want to select the segment. ...and >>>> taps still get messed up no matter what you do. >>> >>> Ok, but why on earth do I have to uncheck wires when such behavior is >>> never desired by anyone in his right mind? The guys who write this stuff >>> should occasionally do an actual design :-) >> >> Amateur. I regularly select a block, then unselect "stubs" that I >> don't want to drag (or move). >> > >Try Eagle some day. It doesn't require such nonsense, it just works. It >is IMHO a much better schematic editor.PSpice Schematics just works too. But I don't understand (not unusual with you :-)... when I select an area, it's a rectangle... there are often things inside that rectangle that I DON'T want to move, so I unselect them. What's your problem?> >Exactly what good does it do that wires push into the rest of the >schematic without first unselecting them?Stop using Crapture ;-) ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | Remember: Once you go over the hill, you pick up speed
Reply by ●April 29, 20112011-04-29
<krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote in message news:835kr6ph8jm83rhquendepvm28btnq5dje@4ax.com...> On Thu, 28 Apr 2011 18:18:41 -0700, "Joel Koltner" > <zapwireDASHgroups@yahoo.com> wrote: >>Also, in case you aren't aware of this... if you Alt-drag a part, it'll >>purposely *not* drag its wires along with it. (...and Ctrl+dragging a part >>duplicates it, as happens in most Windows programs.) > ...which is stupid because Ctrl+drag is also how you select components in an > area. OrCAD likes to confuse the two and you get an area selected and > copied > on top of itself (and both still selected). Good thing Ctrl-Z is handy.Agreed -- their choice of editing techniques definitely conflicts with itself at times, and I end up using Ctrl+Z a lot too! (I also miss features like "lasso select" and "unselect a a rectangular or lassed group of parts from within the larger group already selected" that some other programs have.) That's the fruit of a program that's being maintained by a bunch of people without, as far as I can tell, any one guy (or small core set of developers) who have a clear vision of exactly what it is they're trying to do in the first place...
