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cheap usb ("thumb") drives

Started by Don Y November 29, 2023
I've got a box that builds a "backup partition" on a machine
and then invokes it to install the OS/apps prior to distribution.

Some of the clients are hosing the backup partition by trying to
upgrade to Windows, etc.

I'd like, instead, to offer a thumb drive as installation media
in lieu of the backup partition.

- Can I make a thumb drive "read only" prior to distribution?
   (so the little urchins don't wipe the installer image)  I've
   encountered drives that have *failed* in an R/O mode...
- How durable are *cheap* thumb drives?  (can I get a handful
   of *reliable* reads without worrying about a media error
   or mechanical failure)

The idiot Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> persisting in being an Off-topic troll...

-- 
Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

> Path: not-for-mail > From: Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> > Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design > Subject: cheap usb ("thumb") drives > Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2023 12:22:09 -0700 > Organization: A noiseless patient Spider > Lines: 16 > Message-ID: <uk8317$v4vl$1@dont-email.me> > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Injection-Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2023 19:22:16 -0000 (UTC) > Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="b1f386679152db9955f0ef760cfec86e"; > logging-data="1020917"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/3qsYFYxoRsMrwr6zGYjBc" > User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; Win64; x64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 > Thunderbird/102.2.2 > Cancel-Lock: sha1:7+6lewxtGlUQSGNvZsnq1tnDcgM= > Content-Language: en-US > X-Received-Bytes: 1617
On Wednesday, November 29, 2023 at 11:22:23&#8239;AM UTC-8, Don Y wrote:
> I've got a box that builds a "backup partition" on a machine > and then invokes it to install the OS/apps prior to distribution. > > Some of the clients are hosing the backup partition by trying to > upgrade to Windows, etc. > > I'd like, instead, to offer a thumb drive as installation media > in lieu of the backup partition. > > - Can I make a thumb drive "read only" prior to distribution?
The USB protocol only identifies 'mass storage device' characteristics, not read/write permissions. Any permission mechanism isn't standard (might work only on one filesystem type, or one vendor's mark 3 control model...). You'd be better off using SD card (maybe plugging an SDcard micro module into a $0.79 USB reader), because the SD card specs DO include write locking by a number of mechanisms, some hardware and some software. Also, naturally, you'd want a checksum or hash that can be checked against the contents of any pretender to legitimacy... <https://www.temu.com/high-speed-usb2-0-card-reader-miniature-compact-mobile-phone-memory-card-portable-card-reader-gift-for-birthday-easter-presidents-day-boy-girlfriends-g-601099514249377.html>
On 2023-11-29, Don Y wrote:
> I've got a box that builds a "backup partition" on a machine > and then invokes it to install the OS/apps prior to distribution. > > Some of the clients are hosing the backup partition by trying to > upgrade to Windows, etc.
Not your problem if they trash their box, is it?
> > - Can I make a thumb drive "read only" prior to distribution? > (so the little urchins don't wipe the installer image) I've > encountered drives that have *failed* in an R/O mode...
No, commodity flash drives don't tend to include "write once" features. An ISO that they have to burn themselves is probably the most reliable option (ref. standard Linux installation ISOs)
> - How durable are *cheap* thumb drives? (can I get a handful > of *reliable* reads without worrying about a media error > or mechanical failure)
Pretty durable. It's the writes that wear out the flash / cause it to fail. -- |_|O|_| |_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert |O|O|O| PGP: DDAB 23FB 19FA 7D85 1CC1 E067 6D65 70E5 4CE7 2860
On 11/29/2023 5:24 PM, Dan Purgert wrote:
> On 2023-11-29, Don Y wrote: >> I've got a box that builds a "backup partition" on a machine >> and then invokes it to install the OS/apps prior to distribution. >> >> Some of the clients are hosing the backup partition by trying to >> upgrade to Windows, etc. > > Not your problem if they trash their box, is it?
They bring the box back to us to be "fixed". This is why I built the restore partition hack. (they are underprivileged youth) Previously, they would routinely bring their machines in loaded with malware, porn, etc. and want us to fix it. Technicians would make a serious attempt to try to recover all of their "user files". [This was a colossal waste of effort/staff. I was able to persuade the powers-that-be that a more automatic method would be to OUR benefit.] With the "reboot and select RESTORE" solution, it tells them that their loss is THEIR loss. Even if they bring a machine in, we just "reboot and select RESTORE" -- very *visibly* for them to see (i.e., you just wasted a trip to the shop cuz you didn't walk away with anything more than you would have if you'd done this, yourself). A windows upgrade (attempt) hoses my restore utility so they have an excuse to bring the machine back -- though we still just reinstall from scratch, letting all their stuff disappear. We would like NOT to have to spend our time doing this. A few bucks for a "restore thumb drive" is a small price to pay (we will likely find someone to underwrite the cost of those).
>> - Can I make a thumb drive "read only" prior to distribution? >> (so the little urchins don't wipe the installer image) I've >> encountered drives that have *failed* in an R/O mode... > > No, commodity flash drives don't tend to include "write once" features. > An ISO that they have to burn themselves is probably the most reliable > option (ref. standard Linux installation ISOs)
If I knew that they would always be running the installed OS, I could hack the VID/PID and force a bogus driver for THAT thumb drive. But, they could always bring the drive to a "foreign" machine that doesn't have this hack in place and overwrite it, there.
>> - How durable are *cheap* thumb drives? (can I get a handful >> of *reliable* reads without worrying about a media error >> or mechanical failure) > > Pretty durable. It's the writes that wear out the flash / cause it to > fail.
At least one of the "failed in R/O mode" drives mentioned above failed before it had been completely written, *once*. Costco replaced it (but insisted on having the other two drives that came in the three-pack so they could just give me a new, complete, three-pack in replacement). I've also a few thumb drives, here, that have developed mechanical faults -- it seems like the portion in the connector shell "breaks" from the rest of the body (though not enough to become two pieces; it just "bends" at that joint... enough to make an intermittent). But, my usage likely won't mimic theirs -- esp if I can make it R/O ("Just put the thumb drive someplace for safe keeping TO SAVE *YOU* A TRIP if you need a restore")
The idiot Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> persisting in being an Off-topic troll...

-- 
Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> wrote:

> Path: not-for-mail > From: Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> > Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design > Subject: Re: cheap usb ("thumb") drives > Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2023 00:24:05 -0000 (UTC) > Organization: A noiseless patient Spider > Lines: 30 > Message-ID: <slrnumflkc.v1f.dan@djph.net> > References: <uk8317$v4vl$1@dont-email.me> > Injection-Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2023 00:24:05 -0000 (UTC) > Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="bdc08d3977848adc40ee6d5c48a929ca"; > logging-data="1107957"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19AzKGMJjoKas0MW0GEScBVRQWU4w10TnM=" > User-Agent: slrn/1.0.3 (Linux) > Cancel-Lock: sha1:C7xs9WDDpccsGFJLcPNlMnswu7o= > X-Received-Bytes: 1919
The arsehole Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> persisting in being an Off-topic troll...

-- 
Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

> Path: not-for-mail > From: Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> > Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design > Subject: Re: cheap usb ("thumb") drives > Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2023 18:33:23 -0700 > Organization: A noiseless patient Spider > Lines: 70 > Message-ID: <uk8opa$12d92$2@dont-email.me> > References: <uk8317$v4vl$1@dont-email.me> <slrnumflkc.v1f.dan@djph.net> > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Injection-Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2023 01:33:31 -0000 (UTC) > Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="4e7ef51c610ba137e6aac80b361fc094"; > logging-data="1127714"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/66RX36hNZZrgi/dERo9nC" > User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; Win64; x64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 > Thunderbird/102.2.2 > Cancel-Lock: sha1:NCJl7ZKJKlNXAfZhEWNywOWciJk= > Content-Language: en-US > In-Reply-To: <slrnumflkc.v1f.dan@djph.net> > X-Received-Bytes: 4421
On a sunny day (Wed, 29 Nov 2023 12:22:09 -0700) it happened Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote in <uk8317$v4vl$1@dont-email.me>:

>I've got a box that builds a "backup partition" on a machine >and then invokes it to install the OS/apps prior to distribution. > >Some of the clients are hosing the backup partition by trying to >upgrade to Windows, etc. > >I'd like, instead, to offer a thumb drive as installation media >in lieu of the backup partition. > >- Can I make a thumb drive "read only" prior to distribution? > (so the little urchins don't wipe the installer image) I've > encountered drives that have *failed* in an R/O mode... >- How durable are *cheap* thumb drives? (can I get a handful > of *reliable* reads without worrying about a media error > or mechanical failure)
I bought a cheap 1 TB USB stick, it lasted a few weeks. Opening it up I found that the PCB had pads for input protection parts none were fitted. OTOH I have an old 'Duracell' 16 GB USB stick that is still fine after more than 20 years daily use. As to write protectioon, no way, one can always do a dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/USBSTICK if one wants to. Old SDcards had a mechanical switch, glue it? LOL
On 29/11/2023 19:22, Don Y wrote:
> I've got a box that builds a "backup partition" on a machine > and then invokes it to install the OS/apps prior to distribution. > > Some of the clients are hosing the backup partition by trying to > upgrade to Windows, etc. > > I'd like, instead, to offer a thumb drive as installation media > in lieu of the backup partition. > > - Can I make a thumb drive "read only" prior to distribution? > (so the little urchins don't wipe the installer image) I've > encountered drives that have *failed* in an R/O mode... > - How durable are *cheap* thumb drives? (can I get a handful > of *reliable* reads without worrying about a media error > or mechanical failure)
<https://www.computerhope.com/issues/ch001617.htm> If you've got something "mission critical" it might be best to avoid a cheap drive. If you buy a cheap 32GB drive, perhaps it's a "failed" 64GB drive. Is the 32GB you've got left reliable? -- Jeff
In article <slrnumflkc.v1f.dan@djph.net>, Dan Purgert  <dan@djph.net> wrote:
>On 2023-11-29, Don Y wrote: >> I've got a box that builds a "backup partition" on a machine >> and then invokes it to install the OS/apps prior to distribution. >> >> Some of the clients are hosing the backup partition by trying to >> upgrade to Windows, etc. > >Not your problem if they trash their box, is it? > >> >> - Can I make a thumb drive "read only" prior to distribution? >> (so the little urchins don't wipe the installer image) I've >> encountered drives that have *failed* in an R/O mode... > >No, commodity flash drives don't tend to include "write once" features. >An ISO that they have to burn themselves is probably the most reliable >option (ref. standard Linux installation ISOs) > >> - How durable are *cheap* thumb drives? (can I get a handful >> of *reliable* reads without worrying about a media error >> or mechanical failure) > >Pretty durable. It's the writes that wear out the flash / cause it to >fail.
I installed a backup mechanism to copy daily backups to a thumb drive. That failed after 6 months or so. The thumb drive is no more recognized at all to normal usb software not even as a device. So repetitive writing is a bad idea. (The backups were instead copied to the mount directories. So they were there. It was the idea to have the backups on a different medium. Now I write to a different hard drive in the same machine.)
> >-- >|_|O|_|
Groetjes Albert -- Don't praise the day before the evening. One swallow doesn't make spring. You must not say "hey" before you have crossed the bridge. Don't sell the hide of the bear until you shot it. Better one bird in the hand than ten in the air. First gain is a cat spinning. - the Wise from Antrim -