https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/lujsxfrwlaiocsa2y7k60/P942_DC-DC_12.jpg?rlkey=jslmsa1si2kwbk3l00wph9dhe&raw=1 My PCB guy is overloaded, so I've taken over my board layout, which is another 3-phase alternator simulator. I enjoy doing a PCB layout now and then. Anyway, that's a floating power supply, +48 to isolated +-60 at about 200 watts. What's scary is that those purple logic traces on layer 6 transition from ground referenced (left of the Coilraft planar transformer) to referenced to N, the isolated common and 3-phase neutral, layer 5 split plane. I love these things: https://www.dropbox.com/s/3d093msdmuinhxs/Coilcraft_PL300.jpg?raw=1 Coilcraft does great stuff.
isolated +-60 supply
Started by ●November 26, 2023
Reply by ●November 26, 20232023-11-26
On a sunny day (Sun, 26 Nov 2023 07:17:39 -0800) it happened John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <odn6mi1b6p99mpku923anu2l7clbh7ejpo@4ax.com>:>https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/lujsxfrwlaiocsa2y7k60/P942_DC-DC_12.jpg?rlkey=jslmsa1si2kwbk3l00wph9dhe&raw=1 > >My PCB guy is overloaded, so I've taken over my board layout, which is >another 3-phase alternator simulator. I enjoy doing a PCB layout now >and then. > >Anyway, that's a floating power supply, +48 to isolated +-60 at about >200 watts. What's scary is that those purple logic traces on layer 6 >transition from ground referenced (left of the Coilraft planar >transformer) to referenced to N, the isolated common and 3-phase >neutral, layer 5 split plane. > >I love these things: > >https://www.dropbox.com/s/3d093msdmuinhxs/Coilcraft_PL300.jpg?raw=1 > >Coilcraft does great stuff.When I need a transformer I just wind one... https://panteltje.nl/pub/ultrasonic_antifouling_bigger_transformer_IMG_5179.JPG the math is simple https://panteltje.nl/pub/ultrasonic_anti_fouling_circuit_diagram_IMG_5144.JPG https://panteltje.nl/pub/home_made_1_to_33_hv_transformer_img_3096.jpg
Reply by ●November 26, 20232023-11-26
On 2023/11/26 8:34 a.m., Jan Panteltje wrote:> On a sunny day (Sun, 26 Nov 2023 07:17:39 -0800) it happened John Larkin > <jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <odn6mi1b6p99mpku923anu2l7clbh7ejpo@4ax.com>: > >> https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/lujsxfrwlaiocsa2y7k60/P942_DC-DC_12.jpg?rlkey=jslmsa1si2kwbk3l00wph9dhe&raw=1 >> >> My PCB guy is overloaded, so I've taken over my board layout, which is >> another 3-phase alternator simulator. I enjoy doing a PCB layout now >> and then. >> >> Anyway, that's a floating power supply, +48 to isolated +-60 at about >> 200 watts. What's scary is that those purple logic traces on layer 6 >> transition from ground referenced (left of the Coilraft planar >> transformer) to referenced to N, the isolated common and 3-phase >> neutral, layer 5 split plane. >> >> I love these things: >> >> https://www.dropbox.com/s/3d093msdmuinhxs/Coilcraft_PL300.jpg?raw=1 >> >> Coilcraft does great stuff. > > When I need a transformer I just wind one... > https://panteltje.nl/pub/ultrasonic_antifouling_bigger_transformer_IMG_5179.JPG > the math is simple > https://panteltje.nl/pub/ultrasonic_anti_fouling_circuit_diagram_IMG_5144.JPG > https://panteltje.nl/pub/home_made_1_to_33_hv_transformer_img_3096.jpgDamn, another Rabbit Hole! Transformers...the headache (hard to find) of restoration of jukeboxes and some pinball games - so now, thanks John & Jan!, I'm looking at lamination and bobbin suppliers and thinking of building my own... https://ascocomponents.co.uk/laminations/ei-laminations/ https://www.leswilliams.co.uk/products/transformer-bobbins Why are these people all in the UK? John ;-#)# -- (Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup) John's Jukes Ltd. #7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3 (604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
Reply by ●November 26, 20232023-11-26
John Robertson <jrr@flippers.com> wrote:> On 2023/11/26 8:34 a.m., Jan Panteltje wrote: >> On a sunny day (Sun, 26 Nov 2023 07:17:39 -0800) it happened John Larkin >> <jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <odn6mi1b6p99mpku923anu2l7clbh7ejpo@4ax.com>: >> >>> https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/lujsxfrwlaiocsa2y7k60/P942_DC-DC_12.jpg?rlkey=jslmsa1si2kwbk3l00wph9dhe&raw=1 >>> >>> My PCB guy is overloaded, so I've taken over my board layout, which is >>> another 3-phase alternator simulator. I enjoy doing a PCB layout now >>> and then. >>> >>> Anyway, that's a floating power supply, +48 to isolated +-60 at about >>> 200 watts. What's scary is that those purple logic traces on layer 6 >>> transition from ground referenced (left of the Coilraft planar >>> transformer) to referenced to N, the isolated common and 3-phase >>> neutral, layer 5 split plane. >>> >>> I love these things: >>> >>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/3d093msdmuinhxs/Coilcraft_PL300.jpg?raw=1 >>> >>> Coilcraft does great stuff. >> >> When I need a transformer I just wind one... >> https://panteltje.nl/pub/ultrasonic_antifouling_bigger_transformer_IMG_5179.JPG >> the math is simple >> https://panteltje.nl/pub/ultrasonic_anti_fouling_circuit_diagram_IMG_5144.JPG >> https://panteltje.nl/pub/home_made_1_to_33_hv_transformer_img_3096.jpg > > Damn, another Rabbit Hole! > > Transformers...the headache (hard to find) of restoration of jukeboxes > and some pinball games - so now, thanks John & Jan!, I'm looking at > lamination and bobbin suppliers and thinking of building my own... > > https://ascocomponents.co.uk/laminations/ei-laminations/ > > https://www.leswilliams.co.uk/products/transformer-bobbins > > Why are these people all in the UK? > > John ;-#)# >The Lucas replacement market. Cheers Phil “former Triumph owner” Hobbs -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Reply by ●November 26, 20232023-11-26
On Sun, 26 Nov 2023 16:34:15 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:>On a sunny day (Sun, 26 Nov 2023 07:17:39 -0800) it happened John Larkin ><jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <odn6mi1b6p99mpku923anu2l7clbh7ejpo@4ax.com>: > >>https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/lujsxfrwlaiocsa2y7k60/P942_DC-DC_12.jpg?rlkey=jslmsa1si2kwbk3l00wph9dhe&raw=1 >> >>My PCB guy is overloaded, so I've taken over my board layout, which is >>another 3-phase alternator simulator. I enjoy doing a PCB layout now >>and then. >> >>Anyway, that's a floating power supply, +48 to isolated +-60 at about >>200 watts. What's scary is that those purple logic traces on layer 6 >>transition from ground referenced (left of the Coilraft planar >>transformer) to referenced to N, the isolated common and 3-phase >>neutral, layer 5 split plane. >> >>I love these things: >> >>https://www.dropbox.com/s/3d093msdmuinhxs/Coilcraft_PL300.jpg?raw=1 >> >>Coilcraft does great stuff. > >When I need a transformer I just wind one... > https://panteltje.nl/pub/ultrasonic_antifouling_bigger_transformer_IMG_5179.JPG >the math is simple > https://panteltje.nl/pub/ultrasonic_anti_fouling_circuit_diagram_IMG_5144.JPG > https://panteltje.nl/pub/home_made_1_to_33_hv_transformer_img_3096.jpgThe math of ordering a standard part is simpler. And the parts cost about 1/20 as much. I only design what I can't buy. Weird stuff. I've never seen a transmission-line transformer for sale, or maybe inside a big metal box. Incidentally, Coilcraft does custom versions of that planar transformer. For modest numbers of turns, you can make the windings on your PC board and optionally snap a ferrite core onto both sides of the board. Still a hassle. I was wondering about using two halves of a pot core, bolted on to the board, with the FR4 making a rather large air gap.
Reply by ●November 26, 20232023-11-26
On 11/26/23 20:24, John Larkin wrote:> On Sun, 26 Nov 2023 16:34:15 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> > wrote: > >> On a sunny day (Sun, 26 Nov 2023 07:17:39 -0800) it happened John Larkin >> <jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <odn6mi1b6p99mpku923anu2l7clbh7ejpo@4ax.com>: >> >>> https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/lujsxfrwlaiocsa2y7k60/P942_DC-DC_12.jpg?rlkey=jslmsa1si2kwbk3l00wph9dhe&raw=1 >>> >>> My PCB guy is overloaded, so I've taken over my board layout, which is >>> another 3-phase alternator simulator. I enjoy doing a PCB layout now >>> and then. >>> >>> Anyway, that's a floating power supply, +48 to isolated +-60 at about >>> 200 watts. What's scary is that those purple logic traces on layer 6 >>> transition from ground referenced (left of the Coilraft planar >>> transformer) to referenced to N, the isolated common and 3-phase >>> neutral, layer 5 split plane. >>> >>> I love these things: >>> >>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/3d093msdmuinhxs/Coilcraft_PL300.jpg?raw=1 >>> >>> Coilcraft does great stuff. >> >> When I need a transformer I just wind one... >> https://panteltje.nl/pub/ultrasonic_antifouling_bigger_transformer_IMG_5179.JPG >> the math is simple >> https://panteltje.nl/pub/ultrasonic_anti_fouling_circuit_diagram_IMG_5144.JPG >> https://panteltje.nl/pub/home_made_1_to_33_hv_transformer_img_3096.jpg > > The math of ordering a standard part is simpler. And the parts cost > about 1/20 as much. > > I only design what I can't buy. Weird stuff. I've never seen a > transmission-line transformer for sale, or maybe inside a big metal > box.> [...] Mini-circuits sells what are basically Ruthroff-type transmission line transformers in dip or SMD packages. They are wound with wire. I've never seen a bare transformer wound with coaxial cable for sale. (Unless you want to include some quarter-wave dielectric resonators into your definition of transformers.) They always seem to come in connectorized metal boxes. I've made plenty myself though. Once in a while is fine, but you don't want to have to do it in production quantities. Jeroen Belleman
Reply by ●November 26, 20232023-11-26
On Sun, 26 Nov 2023 20:58:31 +0100, Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:>On 11/26/23 20:24, John Larkin wrote: >> On Sun, 26 Nov 2023 16:34:15 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >> wrote: >> >>> On a sunny day (Sun, 26 Nov 2023 07:17:39 -0800) it happened John Larkin >>> <jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <odn6mi1b6p99mpku923anu2l7clbh7ejpo@4ax.com>: >>> >>>> https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/lujsxfrwlaiocsa2y7k60/P942_DC-DC_12.jpg?rlkey=jslmsa1si2kwbk3l00wph9dhe&raw=1 >>>> >>>> My PCB guy is overloaded, so I've taken over my board layout, which is >>>> another 3-phase alternator simulator. I enjoy doing a PCB layout now >>>> and then. >>>> >>>> Anyway, that's a floating power supply, +48 to isolated +-60 at about >>>> 200 watts. What's scary is that those purple logic traces on layer 6 >>>> transition from ground referenced (left of the Coilraft planar >>>> transformer) to referenced to N, the isolated common and 3-phase >>>> neutral, layer 5 split plane. >>>> >>>> I love these things: >>>> >>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/3d093msdmuinhxs/Coilcraft_PL300.jpg?raw=1 >>>> >>>> Coilcraft does great stuff. >>> >>> When I need a transformer I just wind one... >>> https://panteltje.nl/pub/ultrasonic_antifouling_bigger_transformer_IMG_5179.JPG >>> the math is simple >>> https://panteltje.nl/pub/ultrasonic_anti_fouling_circuit_diagram_IMG_5144.JPG >>> https://panteltje.nl/pub/home_made_1_to_33_hv_transformer_img_3096.jpg >> >> The math of ordering a standard part is simpler. And the parts cost >> about 1/20 as much. >> >> I only design what I can't buy. Weird stuff. I've never seen a >> transmission-line transformer for sale, or maybe inside a big metal >> box. > > [...] > >Mini-circuits sells what are basically Ruthroff-type transmission >line transformers in dip or SMD packages. They are wound with wire. > >I've never seen a bare transformer wound with coaxial cable for sale. >(Unless you want to include some quarter-wave dielectric resonators >into your definition of transformers.) They always seem to come in >connectorized metal boxes. I've made plenty myself though. Once in >a while is fine, but you don't want to have to do it in production >quantities. > >Jeroen BellemanWe have a few products that use transmission-line transformers, which we make. This is on the high-voltage option of our P500 digital delay generator: https://www.dropbox.com/s/pmecggbi463ipes/TX_1.jpg?raw=1 The connectorized cable is a stock part and the connectors are SMT on the board, so it's fairly easy to assemble. Dielectric resonators are usually shorted on one end, and tend to be crazy low impedances as tx lines, like 10 ohms.
Reply by ●November 26, 20232023-11-26
On Sun, 26 Nov 2023 12:30:10 -0800, John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com> wrote:>On Sun, 26 Nov 2023 20:58:31 +0100, Jeroen Belleman ><jeroen@nospam.please> wrote: > >>On 11/26/23 20:24, John Larkin wrote: >>> On Sun, 26 Nov 2023 16:34:15 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> On a sunny day (Sun, 26 Nov 2023 07:17:39 -0800) it happened John Larkin >>>> <jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <odn6mi1b6p99mpku923anu2l7clbh7ejpo@4ax.com>: >>>> >>>>> <https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/lujsxfrwlaiocsa2y7k60/P942_DC-DC_12.jpg?rlkey=jslmsa1si2kwbk3l00wph9dhe&raw=1> >>>>> >>>>> My PCB guy is overloaded, so I've taken over my board layout, which is >>>>> another 3-phase alternator simulator. I enjoy doing a PCB layout now >>>>> and then. >>>>> >>>>> Anyway, that's a floating power supply, +48 to isolated +-60 at about >>>>> 200 watts. What's scary is that those purple logic traces on layer 6 >>>>> transition from ground referenced (left of the Coilraft planar >>>>> transformer) to referenced to N, the isolated common and 3-phase >>>>> neutral, layer 5 split plane. >>>>> >>>>> I love these things: >>>>> >>>>> <https://www.dropbox.com/s/3d093msdmuinhxs/Coilcraft_PL300.jpg?raw=1> >>>>> >>>>> Coilcraft does great stuff. >>>> >>>> When I need a transformer I just wind one... >>>> https://panteltje.nl/pub/ultrasonic_antifouling_bigger_transformer_IMG_5179.JPG >>>> the math is simple >>>> https://panteltje.nl/pub/ultrasonic_anti_fouling_circuit_diagram_IMG_5144.JPG >>>> https://panteltje.nl/pub/home_made_1_to_33_hv_transformer_img_3096.jpg >>> >>> The math of ordering a standard part is simpler. And the parts cost >>> about 1/20 as much. >>> >>> I only design what I can't buy. Weird stuff. I've never seen a >>> transmission-line transformer for sale, or maybe inside a big metal >>> box. >> > [...] >> >>Mini-circuits sells what are basically Ruthroff-type transmission >>line transformers in dip or SMD packages. They are wound with wire. >> >>I've never seen a bare transformer wound with coaxial cable for sale. >>(Unless you want to include some quarter-wave dielectric resonators >>into your definition of transformers.) They always seem to come in >>connectorized metal boxes. I've made plenty myself though. Once in >>a while is fine, but you don't want to have to do it in production >>quantities. >> >>Jeroen Belleman > >We have a few products that use transmission-line transformers, which >we make. This is on the high-voltage option of our P500 digital delay >generator: > ><https://www.dropbox.com/s/pmecggbi463ipes/TX_1.jpg?raw=1> > >The connectorized cable is a stock part and the connectors are SMT on >the board, so it's fairly easy to assemble. > >Dielectric resonators are usually shorted on one end, and tend to be >crazy low impedances as tx lines, like 10 ohms.I did find one manufacturer of Ruthroff-type transmission line transformers, serving the IEEE 802.3 manufacturer market, but the price was ruinous, and the manufacturer annoying, so I documented in the standard how to make a suitable transformer by winding a ferrite toroid core with extruded solid copper shield semi rigid coax without the shields shorting together. It isn't hard, and there are only five or ten turns, so it was perfectly practical to make these transformers. Quantity was too small to justify anything more complex. This has to have been twenty years ago. Joe Gwinn
Reply by ●November 26, 20232023-11-26
On a sunny day (Sun, 26 Nov 2023 11:24:14 -0800) it happened John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <tc67mipuqp22ja3o24pu3n5k01ofmavihb@4ax.com>:>On Sun, 26 Nov 2023 16:34:15 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >wrote: > >>On a sunny day (Sun, 26 Nov 2023 07:17:39 -0800) it happened John Larkin >><jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <odn6mi1b6p99mpku923anu2l7clbh7ejpo@4ax.com>: >> >>>https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/lujsxfrwlaiocsa2y7k60/P942_DC-DC_12.jpg?rlkey=jslmsa1si2kwbk3l00wph9dhe&raw=1 >>> >>>My PCB guy is overloaded, so I've taken over my board layout, which is >>>another 3-phase alternator simulator. I enjoy doing a PCB layout now >>>and then. >>> >>>Anyway, that's a floating power supply, +48 to isolated +-60 at about >>>200 watts. What's scary is that those purple logic traces on layer 6 >>>transition from ground referenced (left of the Coilraft planar >>>transformer) to referenced to N, the isolated common and 3-phase >>>neutral, layer 5 split plane. >>> >>>I love these things: >>> >>>https://www.dropbox.com/s/3d093msdmuinhxs/Coilcraft_PL300.jpg?raw=1 >>> >>>Coilcraft does great stuff. >> >>When I need a transformer I just wind one... >> https://panteltje.nl/pub/ultrasonic_antifouling_bigger_transformer_IMG_5179.JPG >>the math is simple >> https://panteltje.nl/pub/ultrasonic_anti_fouling_circuit_diagram_IMG_5144.JPG >> https://panteltje.nl/pub/home_made_1_to_33_hv_transformer_img_3096.jpg > >The math of ordering a standard part is simpler. And the parts cost >about 1/20 as much. > >I only design what I can't buy. Weird stuff. I've never seen a >transmission-line transformer for sale, or maybe inside a big metal >box. > >Incidentally, Coilcraft does custom versions of that planar >transformer. > >For modest numbers of turns, you can make the windings on your PC >board and optionally snap a ferrite core onto both sides of the board. >Still a hassle. > >I was wondering about using two halves of a pot core, bolted on to the >board, with the FR4 making a rather large air gap.That would also break the outside magnetic coupling, so basically get you very little core effect. Normally in a potcore with airgap only the inner part is shorter, touches less. ? Potcores are nice. https://panteltje.nl/pub/8052AH_BASIC_computer/8052AH_BASIC_computer_inside_img_1727.jpg eighties... EPROM programming voltage generator... https://panteltje.nl/pub/8052AH_BASIC_computer/dc_dc_converter_detail/5V_to_30V_converter.jpg almost a sinewave, no switcher noise...
Reply by ●November 26, 20232023-11-26
On a sunny day (Sun, 26 Nov 2023 09:39:25 -0800) it happened John Robertson <jrr@flippers.com> wrote in <ujvvsf$3bjt4$1@dont-email.me>:>On 2023/11/26 8:34 a.m., Jan Panteltje wrote: >> On a sunny day (Sun, 26 Nov 2023 07:17:39 -0800) it happened John Larkin >> <jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <odn6mi1b6p99mpku923anu2l7clbh7ejpo@4ax.com>: >> >>> https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/lujsxfrwlaiocsa2y7k60/P942_DC-DC_12.jpg?rlkey=jslmsa1si2kwbk3l00wph9dhe&raw=1 >>> >>> My PCB guy is overloaded, so I've taken over my board layout, which is >>> another 3-phase alternator simulator. I enjoy doing a PCB layout now >>> and then. >>> >>> Anyway, that's a floating power supply, +48 to isolated +-60 at about >>> 200 watts. What's scary is that those purple logic traces on layer 6 >>> transition from ground referenced (left of the Coilraft planar >>> transformer) to referenced to N, the isolated common and 3-phase >>> neutral, layer 5 split plane. >>> >>> I love these things: >>> >>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/3d093msdmuinhxs/Coilcraft_PL300.jpg?raw=1 >>> >>> Coilcraft does great stuff. >> >> When I need a transformer I just wind one... >> https://panteltje.nl/pub/ultrasonic_antifouling_bigger_transformer_IMG_5179.JPG >> the math is simple >> https://panteltje.nl/pub/ultrasonic_anti_fouling_circuit_diagram_IMG_5144.JPG >> https://panteltje.nl/pub/home_made_1_to_33_hv_transformer_img_3096.jpg > >Damn, another Rabbit Hole! > >Transformers...the headache (hard to find) of restoration of jukeboxes >and some pinball games - so now, thanks John & Jan!, I'm looking at >lamination and bobbin suppliers and thinking of building my own... > >https://ascocomponents.co.uk/laminations/ei-laminations/ > >https://www.leswilliams.co.uk/products/transformer-bobbins > >Why are these people all in the UK? > >John ;-#)#You do not always _need_ a core.. https://panteltje.nl/pub/inductive_coupling_real_power_300Vpp_IMG_6092.JPG that is a cheap ebay inductive heater with my home made coils. Melting solder with it: https://panteltje.nl/pub/carbon_crucible_power_off_IMG_5428.JPG https://panteltje.nl/pub/crucible_stand_IMG_5440.JPG Ringcores are also fun, bit more difficult to wind: https://panteltje.nl/pub/power_to_drone_table_test_IMG_6260.JPG that is a tuned oscillator, 60 W in that test, tuning is what all the parallel caps are for... Induction is fun!
