https://spectrum.ieee.org/grid-scale-battery-storage-nickel-hydrogen With gullible lunatics like Flyguy claiming that lithium ion batteries are too dangerous to use. one has to suspect that the guys behind this battery chemistry are spending a bit on propaganda. The interesting bit in the article is the sentence. "Their use of expensive platinum catalysts kept them relegated to space applications until five years ago, when Stanford materials science and engineering professor and battery entrepreneur Yi Cui’s team found an inexpensive nickel-molybdenum-cobalt alloy catalyst for the battery that costs US $20 per kilogram." -- Bill Slomam, Sydney
Nickel Hydrogen battery
Started by ●September 28, 2023
Reply by ●September 28, 20232023-09-28
On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 1:50:34 AM UTC-4, Anthony William Sloman wrote:> https://spectrum.ieee.org/grid-scale-battery-storage-nickel-hydrogen > > With gullible lunatics like Flyguy claiming that lithium ion batteries are too dangerous to use. one has to suspect that the guys behind this battery chemistry are spending a bit on propaganda. > > The interesting bit in the article is the sentence. > > "Their use of expensive platinum catalysts kept them relegated to space applications until five years ago, when Stanford materials science and engineering professor and battery entrepreneur Yi Cui’s team found an inexpensive nickel-molybdenum-cobalt alloy catalyst for the battery that costs US $20 per kilogram."Sounds pretty good, except that 60oC maximum operating temperature would require air conditioning in places like Arizona. Wonder what he means exactly by 90% 'round trip' efficiency...> > -- > Bill Slomam, Sydney
Reply by ●September 29, 20232023-09-29
On Friday, September 29, 2023 at 2:29:08 AM UTC+10, Fred Bloggs wrote:> On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 1:50:34 AM UTC-4, Anthony William Sloman wrote: > > https://spectrum.ieee.org/grid-scale-battery-storage-nickel-hydrogen > > > > With gullible lunatics like Flyguy claiming that lithium ion batteries are too dangerous to use. one has to suspect that the guys behind this battery chemistry are spending a bit on propaganda. > > > > The interesting bit in the article is the sentence. > > > > "Their use of expensive platinum catalysts kept them relegated to space applications until five years ago, when Stanford materials science and engineering professor and battery entrepreneur Yi Cui’s team found an inexpensive nickel-molybdenum-cobalt alloy catalyst for the battery that costs US $20 per kilogram." > > Sounds pretty good, except that 60oC maximum operating temperature would require air conditioning in places like Arizona. > > Wonder what he means exactly by 90% 'round trip' efficiency...Presumably you get back 90% of the energy you use to charge the battery. 85% is more typical. -- Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply by ●September 29, 20232023-09-29
On Friday, September 29, 2023 at 3:18:11 AM UTC-4, Anthony William Sloman wrote:> On Friday, September 29, 2023 at 2:29:08 AM UTC+10, Fred Bloggs wrote: > > On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 1:50:34 AM UTC-4, Anthony William Sloman wrote: > > > https://spectrum.ieee.org/grid-scale-battery-storage-nickel-hydrogen > > > > > > With gullible lunatics like Flyguy claiming that lithium ion batteries are too dangerous to use. one has to suspect that the guys behind this battery chemistry are spending a bit on propaganda. > > > > > > The interesting bit in the article is the sentence. > > > > > > "Their use of expensive platinum catalysts kept them relegated to space applications until five years ago, when Stanford materials science and engineering professor and battery entrepreneur Yi Cui’s team found an inexpensive nickel-molybdenum-cobalt alloy catalyst for the battery that costs US $20 per kilogram." > > > > Sounds pretty good, except that 60oC maximum operating temperature would require air conditioning in places like Arizona. > > > > Wonder what he means exactly by 90% 'round trip' efficiency... > Presumably you get back 90% of the energy you use to charge the battery. 85% is more typical.Hmm- that's still pretty good, very good actually. It would put charging and delivery efficiency at 95% each. Where in the IR spectrum is all this industrial electronics waste heat, and will it be absorbed by CO2?> > -- > Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply by ●September 29, 20232023-09-29
On Friday, September 29, 2023 at 9:20:12 PM UTC+10, Fred Bloggs wrote:> On Friday, September 29, 2023 at 3:18:11 AM UTC-4, Anthony William Sloman wrote: > > On Friday, September 29, 2023 at 2:29:08 AM UTC+10, Fred Bloggs wrote: > > > On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 1:50:34 AM UTC-4, Anthony William Sloman wrote: > > > > https://spectrum.ieee.org/grid-scale-battery-storage-nickel-hydrogen > > > > > > > > With gullible lunatics like Flyguy claiming that lithium ion batteries are too dangerous to use. one has to suspect that the guys behind this battery chemistry are spending a bit on propaganda. > > > > > > > > The interesting bit in the article is the sentence. > > > > > > > > "Their use of expensive platinum catalysts kept them relegated to space applications until five years ago, when Stanford materials science and engineering professor and battery entrepreneur Yi Cui’s team found an inexpensive nickel-molybdenum-cobalt alloy catalyst for the battery that costs US $20 per kilogram." > > > > > > Sounds pretty good, except that 60oC maximum operating temperature would require air conditioning in places like Arizona. > > > > > > Wonder what he means exactly by 90% 'round trip' efficiency... > > > > Presumably you get back 90% of the energy you use to charge the battery. 85% is more typical. > > Hmm- that's still pretty good, very good actually. It would put charging and delivery efficiency at 95% each.Except that you can't separate them.> Where in the IR spectrum is all this industrial electronics waste heat, and will it be absorbed by CO2?The earth is a black body radiator, and the waste heat will warm the planet at it's surface. That eventually gets radiated out into space. Some of it is absorbed by CO2 on the way up, and re-radiated from the colder atmosphere up there on its way out into space. https://skepticalscience.com/print.php?r=115 -- Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply by ●September 29, 20232023-09-29
On Friday, September 29, 2023 at 7:43:13 AM UTC-4, Anthony William Sloman wrote:> On Friday, September 29, 2023 at 9:20:12 PM UTC+10, Fred Bloggs wrote: > > On Friday, September 29, 2023 at 3:18:11 AM UTC-4, Anthony William Sloman wrote: > > > On Friday, September 29, 2023 at 2:29:08 AM UTC+10, Fred Bloggs wrote: > > > > On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 1:50:34 AM UTC-4, Anthony William Sloman wrote: > > > > > https://spectrum.ieee.org/grid-scale-battery-storage-nickel-hydrogen > > > > > > > > > > With gullible lunatics like Flyguy claiming that lithium ion batteries are too dangerous to use. one has to suspect that the guys behind this battery chemistry are spending a bit on propaganda. > > > > > > > > > > The interesting bit in the article is the sentence. > > > > > > > > > > "Their use of expensive platinum catalysts kept them relegated to space applications until five years ago, when Stanford materials science and engineering professor and battery entrepreneur Yi Cui’s team found an inexpensive nickel-molybdenum-cobalt alloy catalyst for the battery that costs US $20 per kilogram." > > > > > > > > Sounds pretty good, except that 60oC maximum operating temperature would require air conditioning in places like Arizona. > > > > > > > > Wonder what he means exactly by 90% 'round trip' efficiency... > > > > > > Presumably you get back 90% of the energy you use to charge the battery. 85% is more typical. > > > > Hmm- that's still pretty good, very good actually. It would put charging and delivery efficiency at 95% each. > Except that you can't separate them. > > Where in the IR spectrum is all this industrial electronics waste heat, and will it be absorbed by CO2? > The earth is a black body radiator, and the waste heat will warm the planet at it's surface. > > That eventually gets radiated out into space. Some of it is absorbed by CO2 on the way up, and re-radiated from the colder atmosphere up there on its way out into space. > > https://skepticalscience.com/print.php?r=115The re-radiation effect is quite complicated, but that's where most of warming is coming from, not from radiation into space: https://ugc.berkeley.edu/background-content/re-radiation-of-heat/> > -- > Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply by ●September 29, 20232023-09-29
On Friday, September 29, 2023 at 9:49:43 PM UTC+10, Fred Bloggs wrote:> On Friday, September 29, 2023 at 7:43:13 AM UTC-4, Anthony William Sloman wrote: > > On Friday, September 29, 2023 at 9:20:12 PM UTC+10, Fred Bloggs wrote: > > > On Friday, September 29, 2023 at 3:18:11 AM UTC-4, Anthony William Sloman wrote: > > > > On Friday, September 29, 2023 at 2:29:08 AM UTC+10, Fred Bloggs wrote: > > > > > On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 1:50:34 AM UTC-4, Anthony William Sloman wrote: > > > > > > https://spectrum.ieee.org/grid-scale-battery-storage-nickel-hydrogen > > > > > > > > > > > > With gullible lunatics like Flyguy claiming that lithium ion batteries are too dangerous to use. one has to suspect that the guys behind this battery chemistry are spending a bit on propaganda. > > > > > > > > > > > > The interesting bit in the article is the sentence. > > > > > > > > > > > > "Their use of expensive platinum catalysts kept them relegated to space applications until five years ago, when Stanford materials science and engineering professor and battery entrepreneur Yi Cui’s team found an inexpensive nickel-molybdenum-cobalt alloy catalyst for the battery that costs US $20 per kilogram." > > > > > > > > > > Sounds pretty good, except that 60oC maximum operating temperature would require air conditioning in places like Arizona. > > > > > > > > > > Wonder what he means exactly by 90% 'round trip' efficiency... > > > > > > > > Presumably you get back 90% of the energy you use to charge the battery. 85% is more typical. > > > > > > Hmm- that's still pretty good, very good actually. It would put charging and delivery efficiency at 95% each. > > > > Except that you can't separate them. > > > > > Where in the IR spectrum is all this industrial electronics waste heat, and will it be absorbed by CO2? > > The earth is a black body radiator, and the waste heat will warm the planet at it's surface. > > > > That eventually gets radiated out into space. Some of it is absorbed by CO2 on the way up, and re-radiated from the colder atmosphere up there on its way out into space. > > > > https://skepticalscience.com/print.php?r=115 > > The re-radiation effect is quite complicated, but that's where most of warming is coming from, not from radiation into space: > > https://ugc.berkeley.edu/background-content/re-radiation-of-heat/Don't be silly. The warming comes from the sun. The warming effect we feel at the surface does change as the effective radiation altitude moves higher in the atmosphere, where the air is colder. The effective radiation altitude does depend on the wavelength of the radiation being emitted, which is a complicating factor, but nothing elaborate. -- Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply by ●September 29, 20232023-09-29
On Friday, September 29, 2023 at 8:09:14 AM UTC-4, Anthony William Sloman wrote:> On Friday, September 29, 2023 at 9:49:43 PM UTC+10, Fred Bloggs wrote: > > On Friday, September 29, 2023 at 7:43:13 AM UTC-4, Anthony William Sloman wrote: > > > On Friday, September 29, 2023 at 9:20:12 PM UTC+10, Fred Bloggs wrote: > > > > On Friday, September 29, 2023 at 3:18:11 AM UTC-4, Anthony William Sloman wrote: > > > > > On Friday, September 29, 2023 at 2:29:08 AM UTC+10, Fred Bloggs wrote: > > > > > > On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 1:50:34 AM UTC-4, Anthony William Sloman wrote: > > > > > > > https://spectrum.ieee.org/grid-scale-battery-storage-nickel-hydrogen > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With gullible lunatics like Flyguy claiming that lithium ion batteries are too dangerous to use. one has to suspect that the guys behind this battery chemistry are spending a bit on propaganda. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The interesting bit in the article is the sentence. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Their use of expensive platinum catalysts kept them relegated to space applications until five years ago, when Stanford materials science and engineering professor and battery entrepreneur Yi Cui’s team found an inexpensive nickel-molybdenum-cobalt alloy catalyst for the battery that costs US $20 per kilogram." > > > > > > > > > > > > Sounds pretty good, except that 60oC maximum operating temperature would require air conditioning in places like Arizona. > > > > > > > > > > > > Wonder what he means exactly by 90% 'round trip' efficiency... > > > > > > > > > > Presumably you get back 90% of the energy you use to charge the battery. 85% is more typical. > > > > > > > > Hmm- that's still pretty good, very good actually. It would put charging and delivery efficiency at 95% each. > > > > > > Except that you can't separate them. > > > > > > > Where in the IR spectrum is all this industrial electronics waste heat, and will it be absorbed by CO2? > > > The earth is a black body radiator, and the waste heat will warm the planet at it's surface. > > > > > > That eventually gets radiated out into space. Some of it is absorbed by CO2 on the way up, and re-radiated from the colder atmosphere up there on its way out into space. > > > > > > https://skepticalscience.com/print.php?r=115 > > > > The re-radiation effect is quite complicated, but that's where most of warming is coming from, not from radiation into space: > > > > https://ugc.berkeley.edu/background-content/re-radiation-of-heat/ > Don't be silly. The warming comes from the sun. The warming effect we feel at the surface does change as the effective radiation altitude moves higher in the atmosphere, where the air is colder. > The effective radiation altitude does depend on the wavelength of the radiation being emitted, which is a complicating factor, but nothing elaborate.The warming is coming from the IR excited by sunlight, not the sunlight itself. It's the re-radiation effect that's responsible for insulating the Earth against radiating that IR into space. What are some of the other mechanisms for dissipating atmospheric CO2 besides photosynthesis?> > -- > Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply by ●September 29, 20232023-09-29
On Friday, September 29, 2023 at 10:18:48 PM UTC+10, Fred Bloggs wrote:> On Friday, September 29, 2023 at 8:09:14 AM UTC-4, Anthony William Sloman wrote: > > On Friday, September 29, 2023 at 9:49:43 PM UTC+10, Fred Bloggs wrote: > > > On Friday, September 29, 2023 at 7:43:13 AM UTC-4, Anthony William Sloman wrote: > > > > On Friday, September 29, 2023 at 9:20:12 PM UTC+10, Fred Bloggs wrote: > > > > > On Friday, September 29, 2023 at 3:18:11 AM UTC-4, Anthony William Sloman wrote: > > > > > > On Friday, September 29, 2023 at 2:29:08 AM UTC+10, Fred Bloggs wrote: > > > > > > > On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 1:50:34 AM UTC-4, Anthony William Sloman wrote: > > > > > > > > https://spectrum.ieee.org/grid-scale-battery-storage-nickel-hydrogen > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With gullible lunatics like Flyguy claiming that lithium ion batteries are too dangerous to use. one has to suspect that the guys behind this battery chemistry are spending a bit on propaganda. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The interesting bit in the article is the sentence. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Their use of expensive platinum catalysts kept them relegated to space applications until five years ago, when Stanford materials science and engineering professor and battery entrepreneur Yi Cui’s team found an inexpensive nickel-molybdenum-cobalt alloy catalyst for the battery that costs US $20 per kilogram." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sounds pretty good, except that 60oC maximum operating temperature would require air conditioning in places like Arizona. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wonder what he means exactly by 90% 'round trip' efficiency... > > > > > > > > > > > > Presumably you get back 90% of the energy you use to charge the battery. 85% is more typical. > > > > > > > > > > Hmm- that's still pretty good, very good actually. It would put charging and delivery efficiency at 95% each. > > > > > > > > Except that you can't separate them. > > > > > > > > > Where in the IR spectrum is all this industrial electronics waste heat, and will it be absorbed by CO2? > > > > The earth is a black body radiator, and the waste heat will warm the planet at it's surface. > > > > > > > > That eventually gets radiated out into space. Some of it is absorbed by CO2 on the way up, and re-radiated from the colder atmosphere up there on its way out into space. > > > > > > > > https://skepticalscience.com/print.php?r=115 > > > > > > The re-radiation effect is quite complicated, but that's where most of warming is coming from, not from radiation into space: > > > > > > https://ugc.berkeley.edu/background-content/re-radiation-of-heat/ > > > > Don't be silly. The warming comes from the sun. The warming effect we feel at the surface does change as the effective radiation altitude moves higher in the atmosphere, where the air is colder. > > The effective radiation altitude does depend on the wavelength of the radiation being emitted, which is a complicating factor, but nothing elaborate. > > The warming is coming from the IR excited by sunlight, not the sunlight itself. It's the re-radiation effect that's responsible for insulating the Earth against radiating that IR into space.Learn some physics. That's meaningless word salad.> What are some of the other mechanisms for dissipating atmospheric CO2 besides photosynthesis?Weathering silicate rocks to carbonate. One entirely practical scheme to combat anthropogenic global warming involved digging up olivine, crushing it and spreading it on beaches, river-banks and fields where it would be damp enough to react with CO2. In the oceans phytoplankton could do the job. Some micro-organisms grow carbonate shells which sink to the bottom of the ocean when they die. Giving them the right trace nutrients to get more of them would help too -- Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply by ●September 29, 20232023-09-29
On Friday, September 29, 2023 at 8:45:57 AM UTC-4, Anthony William Sloman wrote:> On Friday, September 29, 2023 at 10:18:48 PM UTC+10, Fred Bloggs wrote: > > On Friday, September 29, 2023 at 8:09:14 AM UTC-4, Anthony William Sloman wrote: > > > On Friday, September 29, 2023 at 9:49:43 PM UTC+10, Fred Bloggs wrote: > > > > On Friday, September 29, 2023 at 7:43:13 AM UTC-4, Anthony William Sloman wrote: > > > > > On Friday, September 29, 2023 at 9:20:12 PM UTC+10, Fred Bloggs wrote: > > > > > > On Friday, September 29, 2023 at 3:18:11 AM UTC-4, Anthony William Sloman wrote: > > > > > > > On Friday, September 29, 2023 at 2:29:08 AM UTC+10, Fred Bloggs wrote: > > > > > > > > On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 1:50:34 AM UTC-4, Anthony William Sloman wrote: > > > > > > > > > https://spectrum.ieee.org/grid-scale-battery-storage-nickel-hydrogen > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With gullible lunatics like Flyguy claiming that lithium ion batteries are too dangerous to use. one has to suspect that the guys behind this battery chemistry are spending a bit on propaganda. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The interesting bit in the article is the sentence. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Their use of expensive platinum catalysts kept them relegated to space applications until five years ago, when Stanford materials science and engineering professor and battery entrepreneur Yi Cui’s team found an inexpensive nickel-molybdenum-cobalt alloy catalyst for the battery that costs US $20 per kilogram." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sounds pretty good, except that 60oC maximum operating temperature would require air conditioning in places like Arizona. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wonder what he means exactly by 90% 'round trip' efficiency... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Presumably you get back 90% of the energy you use to charge the battery. 85% is more typical. > > > > > > > > > > > > Hmm- that's still pretty good, very good actually. It would put charging and delivery efficiency at 95% each. > > > > > > > > > > Except that you can't separate them. > > > > > > > > > > > Where in the IR spectrum is all this industrial electronics waste heat, and will it be absorbed by CO2? > > > > > The earth is a black body radiator, and the waste heat will warm the planet at it's surface. > > > > > > > > > > That eventually gets radiated out into space. Some of it is absorbed by CO2 on the way up, and re-radiated from the colder atmosphere up there on its way out into space. > > > > > > > > > > https://skepticalscience.com/print.php?r=115 > > > > > > > > The re-radiation effect is quite complicated, but that's where most of warming is coming from, not from radiation into space: > > > > > > > > https://ugc.berkeley.edu/background-content/re-radiation-of-heat/ > > > > > > Don't be silly. The warming comes from the sun. The warming effect we feel at the surface does change as the effective radiation altitude moves higher in the atmosphere, where the air is colder. > > > The effective radiation altitude does depend on the wavelength of the radiation being emitted, which is a complicating factor, but nothing elaborate. > > > > The warming is coming from the IR excited by sunlight, not the sunlight itself. It's the re-radiation effect that's responsible for insulating the Earth against radiating that IR into space. > Learn some physics. That's meaningless word salad.Does broad spectrum sunlight have IR in significant amount? It's the excitation of atoms by visible sunlight that produces the heat. Looks like a light to heat conversion process to me.> > What are some of the other mechanisms for dissipating atmospheric CO2 besides photosynthesis? > Weathering silicate rocks to carbonate. One entirely practical scheme to combat anthropogenic global warming involved digging up olivine, crushing it and spreading it on beaches, river-banks and fields where it would be damp enough to react with CO2. > > In the oceans phytoplankton could do the job. Some micro-organisms grow carbonate shells which sink to the bottom of the ocean when they die. Giving them the right trace nutrients to get more of them would help tooThat mineral stuff takes forever.> > -- > Bill Sloman, Sydney
