søndag den 10. september 2023 kl. 01.40.53 UTC+2 skrev whit3rd:> On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 7:11:50 AM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote: > > On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 9:01:28 AM UTC-4, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote: > > > lørdag den 9. september 2023 kl. 14.46.48 UTC+2 skrev Fred Bloggs: > > > > > Uh-huh. LEDs don't flicker. They're all powered by regulated switching ***current*** sources operating in the 20kHz-30kHz range. LEDs are not directly powered by voltage, and the current sources are immune to voltage fluctuation. > > > > > > > some are linear, enough LEDs in series to add up to most of the rectified line voltage > > > I'm pretty sure they've never used that method for the commodity lighting bulb market. Maybe for signs and indicator bulb types of applications where it has to be dirt cheap. > And consumer commodity bulbs don't have to be dirt cheap? These type lamps > > <https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/solhetta-led-bulb-e26-450-lumen-globe-clear-10530117/> > > certainly are 'enough LEDs in series' and not much else; there's no ROOM for more parts than that.looks like this Philips one https://youtu.be/nMc6mjE9Y1s?si=91sHQG9u-YBN-Idg&t=454 that is a buck converter, schematic here: https://youtu.be/nMc6mjE9Y1s?si=lUg8dp9qZRffMQh6&t=738
Kill LED lamp flicker
Started by ●September 8, 2023
Reply by ●September 9, 20232023-09-09
Reply by ●September 10, 20232023-09-10
On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 7:40:53 PM UTC-4, whit3rd wrote:> On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 7:11:50 AM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote: > > On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 9:01:28 AM UTC-4, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote: > > > lørdag den 9. september 2023 kl. 14.46.48 UTC+2 skrev Fred Bloggs: > > > > > Uh-huh. LEDs don't flicker. They're all powered by regulated switching ***current*** sources operating in the 20kHz-30kHz range. LEDs are not directly powered by voltage, and the current sources are immune to voltage fluctuation. > > > > > > > some are linear, enough LEDs in series to add up to most of the rectified line voltage > > > I'm pretty sure they've never used that method for the commodity lighting bulb market. Maybe for signs and indicator bulb types of applications where it has to be dirt cheap. > And consumer commodity bulbs don't have to be dirt cheap? These type lamps > > <https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/solhetta-led-bulb-e26-450-lumen-globe-clear-10530117/> > > certainly are 'enough LEDs in series' and not much else; there's no ROOM for more parts than that.It's probably grade F efficiency: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1qdbfcuiVA
Reply by ●September 10, 20232023-09-10
On 09/09/2023 15:11, Fred Bloggs wrote:> On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 9:01:28 AM UTC-4, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote: >> lørdag den 9. september 2023 kl. 14.46.48 UTC+2 skrev Fred Bloggs: >>> On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 11:25:43 AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote: >>>> >>>> Maybe you have cheap flourescent-replacement tubes. >>> Uh-huh. LEDs don't flicker. They're all powered by regulated switching ***current*** sources operating in the 20kHz-30kHz range. LEDs are not directly powered by voltage, and the current sources are immune to voltage fluctuation. >>> >> some are linear, enough LEDs in series to add up to most of the rectified line voltage > > I'm pretty sure they've never used that method for the commodity lighting bulb market. Maybe for signs and indicator bulb types of applications where it has to be dirt cheap.You are wrong. I have a dead one sat in a drawer somewhere nearby. 60 LEDs in series across rectified UK 240v mains. One single LED in the chain has failed. It was the first LED bulb failure that I ever saw so I dismantled it to see why. They are the cheapest and nastiest on the market, but at the time it was bought they sold for premium prices with exaggerated MTBF based on the expected failure time of a single LED. True MTBF is claimed/60. -- Martin Brown
Reply by ●September 10, 20232023-09-10
søndag den 10. september 2023 kl. 16.44.38 UTC+2 skrev Fred Bloggs:> On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 7:40:53 PM UTC-4, whit3rd wrote: > > On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 7:11:50 AM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote: > > > On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 9:01:28 AM UTC-4, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote: > > > > lørdag den 9. september 2023 kl. 14.46.48 UTC+2 skrev Fred Bloggs: > > > > > > > Uh-huh. LEDs don't flicker. They're all powered by regulated switching ***current*** sources operating in the 20kHz-30kHz range. LEDs are not directly powered by voltage, and the current sources are immune to voltage fluctuation. > > > > > > > > > some are linear, enough LEDs in series to add up to most of the rectified line voltage > > > > > I'm pretty sure they've never used that method for the commodity lighting bulb market. Maybe for signs and indicator bulb types of applications where it has to be dirt cheap. > > And consumer commodity bulbs don't have to be dirt cheap? These type lamps > > > > <https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/solhetta-led-bulb-e26-450-lumen-globe-clear-10530117/> > > > > certainly are 'enough LEDs in series' and not much else; there's no ROOM for more parts than that. > It's probably grade F efficiency:it's grade C which in the pre 2020 rating would have been better than A++
Reply by ●September 10, 20232023-09-10
On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 10:57:40 AM UTC-4, Martin Brown wrote:> On 09/09/2023 15:11, Fred Bloggs wrote: > > On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 9:01:28 AM UTC-4, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote: > >> lørdag den 9. september 2023 kl. 14.46.48 UTC+2 skrev Fred Bloggs: > >>> On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 11:25:43 AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Maybe you have cheap flourescent-replacement tubes. > >>> Uh-huh. LEDs don't flicker. They're all powered by regulated switching ***current*** sources operating in the 20kHz-30kHz range. LEDs are not directly powered by voltage, and the current sources are immune to voltage fluctuation. > >>> > >> some are linear, enough LEDs in series to add up to most of the rectified line voltage > > > > I'm pretty sure they've never used that method for the commodity lighting bulb market. Maybe for signs and indicator bulb types of applications where it has to be dirt cheap. > You are wrong. I have a dead one sat in a drawer somewhere nearby. > 60 LEDs in series across rectified UK 240v mains.No one is interested in an example of degenerate ad hoc engineering that was completely abandoned, and for good reason. Looks like a lot of these crummy Edison filament types are for chandelier applications, a decorative purpose, not a utility purpose where people want to actually see. When it comes to decor, many times bulbs are wasted by putting them behind valences to illuminate by reflection off the wall, or decorative lamp shades where the main job is to illuminate and display the shade.> > One single LED in the chain has failed. It was the first LED bulb > failure that I ever saw so I dismantled it to see why. > > They are the cheapest and nastiest on the market, but at the time it was > bought they sold for premium prices with exaggerated MTBF based on the > expected failure time of a single LED. True MTBF is claimed/60. > > -- > Martin Brown
Reply by ●September 10, 20232023-09-10
On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 11:10:59 AM UTC-4, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:> søndag den 10. september 2023 kl. 16.44.38 UTC+2 skrev Fred Bloggs: > > On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 7:40:53 PM UTC-4, whit3rd wrote: > > > On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 7:11:50 AM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote: > > > > On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 9:01:28 AM UTC-4, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote: > > > > > lørdag den 9. september 2023 kl. 14.46.48 UTC+2 skrev Fred Bloggs: > > > > > > > > > Uh-huh. LEDs don't flicker. They're all powered by regulated switching ***current*** sources operating in the 20kHz-30kHz range. LEDs are not directly powered by voltage, and the current sources are immune to voltage fluctuation. > > > > > > > > > > > some are linear, enough LEDs in series to add up to most of the rectified line voltage > > > > > > > I'm pretty sure they've never used that method for the commodity lighting bulb market. Maybe for signs and indicator bulb types of applications where it has to be dirt cheap. > > > And consumer commodity bulbs don't have to be dirt cheap? These type lamps > > > > > > <https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/solhetta-led-bulb-e26-450-lumen-globe-clear-10530117/> > > > > > > certainly are 'enough LEDs in series' and not much else; there's no ROOM for more parts than that. > > It's probably grade F efficiency: > it's grade C which in the pre 2020 rating would have been better than A++That's not the Edison filament bulb. I didn't find one that he did on the Solhetta.
Reply by ●September 10, 20232023-09-10
søndag den 10. september 2023 kl. 17.21.07 UTC+2 skrev Fred Bloggs:> On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 11:10:59 AM UTC-4, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote: > > søndag den 10. september 2023 kl. 16.44.38 UTC+2 skrev Fred Bloggs: > > > On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 7:40:53 PM UTC-4, whit3rd wrote: > > > > On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 7:11:50 AM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote: > > > > > On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 9:01:28 AM UTC-4, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote: > > > > > > lørdag den 9. september 2023 kl. 14.46.48 UTC+2 skrev Fred Bloggs: > > > > > > > > > > > Uh-huh. LEDs don't flicker. They're all powered by regulated switching ***current*** sources operating in the 20kHz-30kHz range. LEDs are not directly powered by voltage, and the current sources are immune to voltage fluctuation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > some are linear, enough LEDs in series to add up to most of the rectified line voltage > > > > > > > > > I'm pretty sure they've never used that method for the commodity lighting bulb market. Maybe for signs and indicator bulb types of applications where it has to be dirt cheap. > > > > And consumer commodity bulbs don't have to be dirt cheap? These type lamps > > > > > > > > <https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/solhetta-led-bulb-e26-450-lumen-globe-clear-10530117/> > > > > > > > > certainly are 'enough LEDs in series' and not much else; there's no ROOM for more parts than that. > > > It's probably grade F efficiency: > > it's grade C which in the pre 2020 rating would have been better than A++ > That's not the Edison filament bulb. I didn't find one that he did on the Solhetta.there is seval types of Solhetta bulbs the filament one is (new) grade C https://www.ikea.com/dk/da/p/solhetta-led-paere-e27-470-lumen-globe-klar-00498660/
Reply by ●September 10, 20232023-09-10
On 10/09/2023 16:18, Fred Bloggs wrote:> On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 10:57:40 AM UTC-4, Martin Brown wrote: >> On 09/09/2023 15:11, Fred Bloggs wrote: >>> On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 9:01:28 AM UTC-4, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote: >>>> lørdag den 9. september 2023 kl. 14.46.48 UTC+2 skrev Fred Bloggs: >>>>> On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 11:25:43 AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Maybe you have cheap flourescent-replacement tubes. >>>>> Uh-huh. LEDs don't flicker. They're all powered by regulated switching ***current*** sources operating in the 20kHz-30kHz range. LEDs are not directly powered by voltage, and the current sources are immune to voltage fluctuation. >>>>> >>>> some are linear, enough LEDs in series to add up to most of the rectified line voltage >>> >>> I'm pretty sure they've never used that method for the commodity lighting bulb market. Maybe for signs and indicator bulb types of applications where it has to be dirt cheap. >> You are wrong. I have a dead one sat in a drawer somewhere nearby. >> 60 LEDs in series across rectified UK 240v mains. > > No one is interested in an example of degenerate ad hoc engineering that was completely abandoned, and for good reason.They were made like that presumably to be as cheap and nasty as possible. When they worked they were fine and instant on with true rated brightness unlike the previous generation of CFLs which came on dimly and almost never reached the brightness that their packaging claimed.>> One single LED in the chain has failed. It was the first LED bulb >> failure that I ever saw so I dismantled it to see why. >> >> They are the cheapest and nastiest on the market, but at the time it was >> bought they sold for premium prices with exaggerated MTBF based on the >> expected failure time of a single LED. True MTBF is claimed/60.That was their undoing. I expect you can still buy them on fleaBay. -- Martin Brown
Reply by ●September 10, 20232023-09-10
On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 11:28:53 AM UTC-4, Martin Brown wrote:> On 10/09/2023 16:18, Fred Bloggs wrote: > > On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 10:57:40 AM UTC-4, Martin Brown wrote: > >> On 09/09/2023 15:11, Fred Bloggs wrote: > >>> On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 9:01:28 AM UTC-4, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote: > >>>> lørdag den 9. september 2023 kl. 14.46.48 UTC+2 skrev Fred Bloggs: > >>>>> On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 11:25:43 AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Maybe you have cheap flourescent-replacement tubes. > >>>>> Uh-huh. LEDs don't flicker. They're all powered by regulated switching ***current*** sources operating in the 20kHz-30kHz range. LEDs are not directly powered by voltage, and the current sources are immune to voltage fluctuation. > >>>>> > >>>> some are linear, enough LEDs in series to add up to most of the rectified line voltage > >>> > >>> I'm pretty sure they've never used that method for the commodity lighting bulb market. Maybe for signs and indicator bulb types of applications where it has to be dirt cheap. > >> You are wrong. I have a dead one sat in a drawer somewhere nearby. > >> 60 LEDs in series across rectified UK 240v mains. > > > > No one is interested in an example of degenerate ad hoc engineering that was completely abandoned, and for good reason. > They were made like that presumably to be as cheap and nasty as > possible. When they worked they were fine and instant on with true rated > brightness unlike the previous generation of CFLs which came on dimly > and almost never reached the brightness that their packaging claimed. > >> One single LED in the chain has failed. It was the first LED bulb > >> failure that I ever saw so I dismantled it to see why. > >> > >> They are the cheapest and nastiest on the market, but at the time it was > >> bought they sold for premium prices with exaggerated MTBF based on the > >> expected failure time of a single LED. True MTBF is claimed/60. > That was their undoing. I expect you can still buy them on fleaBay.I would expect that has a chance of working in UK if the LED has a soft enough IV, and considering the mains voltage there is an edge limited square wave.> > -- > Martin Brown
Reply by ●September 10, 20232023-09-10
On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 11:28:34 AM UTC-4, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:> søndag den 10. september 2023 kl. 17.21.07 UTC+2 skrev Fred Bloggs: > > On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 11:10:59 AM UTC-4, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote: > > > søndag den 10. september 2023 kl. 16.44.38 UTC+2 skrev Fred Bloggs: > > > > On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 7:40:53 PM UTC-4, whit3rd wrote: > > > > > On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 7:11:50 AM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote: > > > > > > On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 9:01:28 AM UTC-4, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote: > > > > > > > lørdag den 9. september 2023 kl. 14.46.48 UTC+2 skrev Fred Bloggs: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Uh-huh. LEDs don't flicker. They're all powered by regulated switching ***current*** sources operating in the 20kHz-30kHz range. LEDs are not directly powered by voltage, and the current sources are immune to voltage fluctuation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > some are linear, enough LEDs in series to add up to most of the rectified line voltage > > > > > > > > > > > I'm pretty sure they've never used that method for the commodity lighting bulb market. Maybe for signs and indicator bulb types of applications where it has to be dirt cheap. > > > > > And consumer commodity bulbs don't have to be dirt cheap? These type lamps > > > > > > > > > > <https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/solhetta-led-bulb-e26-450-lumen-globe-clear-10530117/> > > > > > > > > > > certainly are 'enough LEDs in series' and not much else; there's no ROOM for more parts than that. > > > > It's probably grade F efficiency: > > > it's grade C which in the pre 2020 rating would have been better than A++ > > That's not the Edison filament bulb. I didn't find one that he did on the Solhetta. > there is seval types of Solhetta bulbs > > the filament one is (new) grade C > https://www.ikea.com/dk/da/p/solhetta-led-paere-e27-470-lumen-globe-klar-00498660/Just because you can't see it, it doesn't mean some kind of regulation isn't there. They have those micro-miniaturized monolithic linear current regulators requiring zero externals they could hide in the filament.
