I guess that gives me second thoughts about replacing the lead-acid batteries in my wheelchair with lithium given the size required... (Not going to store a $40K chair outside "just to be safe"!)
"4 Die in Fire Caused by Batteries in E-Bike Shop Near Chinatown"
Started by ●June 20, 2023
Reply by ●June 21, 20232023-06-21
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 8:51:58 AM UTC+10, Don Y wrote:> I guess that gives me second thoughts about replacing the lead-acid > batteries in my wheelchair with lithium given the size required... > > (Not going to store a $40K chair outside "just to be safe"!)A bike shop is going to have more lithium batteries in one spot than any wheel chair. The batteries are going to have to get hot enough to go into runaway discharge before they can catch on fire. A stack of batteries is much more likely to get that hot than any single battery in a wheel chair. Throw in sloppy habits in the bike shop - repeated over-charging or very fast charging - and it's much more likely to get a battery fire than the parking area for your wheel chair. Flyguy can't think well enough to recognise these kinds of points. You should be able to do better. -- Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply by ●June 21, 20232023-06-21
On Tuesday, June 20, 2023 at 6:51:58 PM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:> I guess that gives me second thoughts about replacing the lead-acid > batteries in my wheelchair with lithium given the size required... > > (Not going to store a $40K chair outside "just to be safe"!)Can you explain your reasoning? I'd like to hear how you came to this conclusion. -- Rick C. - Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging - Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Reply by ●June 21, 20232023-06-21
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 1:11:57 AM UTC-4, Anthony William Sloman wrote:> On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 8:51:58 AM UTC+10, Don Y wrote: > > I guess that gives me second thoughts about replacing the lead-acid > > batteries in my wheelchair with lithium given the size required... > > > > (Not going to store a $40K chair outside "just to be safe"!) > A bike shop is going to have more lithium batteries in one spot than any wheel chair. > > The batteries are going to have to get hot enough to go into runaway discharge before they can catch on fire. > > A stack of batteries is much more likely to get that hot than any single battery in a wheel chair. > > Throw in sloppy habits in the bike shop - repeated over-charging or very fast charging - and it's much more likely to get a battery fire than the parking area for your wheel chair. Flyguy can't think well enough to recognise these kinds of points. You should be able to do better.The fire became deadly when it spread to the apartments above the bike shop, and it occurred late at night when the occupants were probably sleeping. NYC is very familiar with this scenario. They'll start regulating the bike shops when 10,000 people have died. https://apnews.com/article/new-york-ebike-store-fatal-fire-789d04a128a93160810743acf9c4f893> > -- > Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply by ●June 21, 20232023-06-21
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 9:17:09 PM UTC+10, Fred Bloggs wrote:> On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 1:11:57 AM UTC-4, Anthony William Sloman wrote: > > On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 8:51:58 AM UTC+10, Don Y wrote: > > > I guess that gives me second thoughts about replacing the lead-acid > > > batteries in my wheelchair with lithium given the size required... > > > > > > (Not going to store a $40K chair outside "just to be safe"!) > > A bike shop is going to have more lithium batteries in one spot than any wheel chair. > > > > The batteries are going to have to get hot enough to go into runaway discharge before they can catch on fire. > > > > A stack of batteries is much more likely to get that hot than any single battery in a wheel chair. > > > > Throw in sloppy habits in the bike shop - repeated over-charging or very fast charging - and it's much more likely to get a battery fire than the parking area for your wheel chair. Flyguy can't think well enough to recognise these kinds of points. You should be able to do better. > > The fire became deadly when it spread to the apartments above the bike shop, and it occurred late at night when the occupants were probably sleeping. NYC is very familiar with this scenario. They'll start regulating the bike shops when 10,000 people have died. > > https://apnews.com/article/new-york-ebike-store-fatal-fire-789d04a128a93160810743acf9c4f893Lithium batteries can certainly burn if they get hot enough. Nothing in the report makes it clear that the batteries were the ignition source - they can overheat if overcharged. but any properly designed charger would monitor for that and stop charging long before they got dangerous, and the owner denies that any of them were being charged overnight. -- Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply by ●June 21, 20232023-06-21
On Wed, 21 Jun 2023 04:17:04 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:>On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 1:11:57?AM UTC-4, Anthony William Sloman wrote: >> On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 8:51:58?AM UTC+10, Don Y wrote: >> > I guess that gives me second thoughts about replacing the lead-acid >> > batteries in my wheelchair with lithium given the size required... >> > >> > (Not going to store a $40K chair outside "just to be safe"!) >> A bike shop is going to have more lithium batteries in one spot than any wheel chair. >> >> The batteries are going to have to get hot enough to go into runaway discharge before they can catch on fire. >> >> A stack of batteries is much more likely to get that hot than any single battery in a wheel chair. >> >> Throw in sloppy habits in the bike shop - repeated over-charging or very fast charging - and it's much more likely to get a battery fire than the parking area for your wheel chair. Flyguy can't think well enough to recognise these kinds of points. You should be able to do better. > >The fire became deadly when it spread to the apartments above the bike shop, and it occurred late at night when the occupants were probably sleeping. NYC is very familiar with this scenario. They'll start regulating the bike shops when 10,000 people have died. > >https://apnews.com/article/new-york-ebike-store-fatal-fire-789d04a128a93160810743acf9c4f893 >NYC had over 200 lithium battery fires last year, mostly people parking bikes and scooters indoors, and a few cell phones exploding. I'd expect an Apple or Samsung phone to have high quality batteries and a cheap scooter to not. We walked past a garden yesterday that had a pile of the little solar-charged-LED light things ready to be disposed of. The cheap batteries die in a year or two.
Reply by ●June 21, 20232023-06-21
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 11:08:55 AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:> On Wed, 21 Jun 2023 04:17:04 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs > <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote: > > >On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 1:11:57?AM UTC-4, Anthony William Sloman wrote: > >> On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 8:51:58?AM UTC+10, Don Y wrote: > >> > I guess that gives me second thoughts about replacing the lead-acid > >> > batteries in my wheelchair with lithium given the size required... > >> > > >> > (Not going to store a $40K chair outside "just to be safe"!) > >> A bike shop is going to have more lithium batteries in one spot than any wheel chair. > >> > >> The batteries are going to have to get hot enough to go into runaway discharge before they can catch on fire. > >> > >> A stack of batteries is much more likely to get that hot than any single battery in a wheel chair. > >> > >> Throw in sloppy habits in the bike shop - repeated over-charging or very fast charging - and it's much more likely to get a battery fire than the parking area for your wheel chair. Flyguy can't think well enough to recognise these kinds of points. You should be able to do better. > > > >The fire became deadly when it spread to the apartments above the bike shop, and it occurred late at night when the occupants were probably sleeping. NYC is very familiar with this scenario. They'll start regulating the bike shops when 10,000 people have died. > > > >https://apnews.com/article/new-york-ebike-store-fatal-fire-789d04a128a93160810743acf9c4f893 > > > NYC had over 200 lithium battery fires last year, mostly people > parking bikes and scooters indoors, and a few cell phones exploding. > > I'd expect an Apple or Samsung phone to have high quality batteries > and a cheap scooter to not. > > We walked past a garden yesterday that had a pile of the little > solar-charged-LED light things ready to be disposed of. The cheap > batteries die in a year or two.I seem to recall it being a new Samsung phone model catching fire that resulted in the brand being banned from airplanes for a while. This was some years ago, before anyone thought of phones being the fire hazard they are. -- Rick C. + Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging + Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Reply by ●June 21, 20232023-06-21
On Tue, 20 Jun 2023 15:51:45 -0700, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:>I guess that gives me second thoughts about replacing the lead-acid >batteries in my wheelchair with lithium given the size required... > >(Not going to store a $40K chair outside "just to be safe"!)https://dnyuz.com/2023/06/21/how-e-bike-battery-fires-became-a-deadly-crisis-in-new-york-city/
Reply by ●June 21, 20232023-06-21
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 3:43:57 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:> On Tue, 20 Jun 2023 15:51:45 -0700, Don Y > <blocked...@foo.invalid> wrote: > > >I guess that gives me second thoughts about replacing the lead-acid > >batteries in my wheelchair with lithium given the size required... > > > >(Not going to store a $40K chair outside "just to be safe"!) > https://dnyuz.com/2023/06/21/how-e-bike-battery-fires-became-a-deadly-crisis-in-new-york-city/Those batteries have everything going against them: shock and vibration, exposure to the elements, exposure to airborne corrosives in city air, people experimenting with chargers- maybe not even intended for lithium, abuse from deep discharge with people running them until their e-bike goes dead.
Reply by ●June 21, 20232023-06-21
On Wednesday, 21 June 2023 at 08:08:55 UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:> On Wed, 21 Jun 2023 04:17:04 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs > <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote: > > >On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 1:11:57?AM UTC-4, Anthony William Sloman wrote: > >> On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 8:51:58?AM UTC+10, Don Y wrote: > >> > I guess that gives me second thoughts about replacing the lead-acid > >> > batteries in my wheelchair with lithium given the size required... > >> > > >> > (Not going to store a $40K chair outside "just to be safe"!) > >> A bike shop is going to have more lithium batteries in one spot than any wheel chair. > >> > >> The batteries are going to have to get hot enough to go into runaway discharge before they can catch on fire. > >> > >> A stack of batteries is much more likely to get that hot than any single battery in a wheel chair. > >> > >> Throw in sloppy habits in the bike shop - repeated over-charging or very fast charging - and it's much more likely to get a battery fire than the parking area for your wheel chair. Flyguy can't think well enough to recognise these kinds of points. You should be able to do better. > > > >The fire became deadly when it spread to the apartments above the bike shop, and it occurred late at night when the occupants were probably sleeping. NYC is very familiar with this scenario. They'll start regulating the bike shops when 10,000 people have died. > > > >https://apnews.com/article/new-york-ebike-store-fatal-fire-789d04a128a93160810743acf9c4f893 > > > NYC had over 200 lithium battery fires last year, mostly people > parking bikes and scooters indoors, and a few cell phones exploding. > > I'd expect an Apple or Samsung phone to have high quality batteries > and a cheap scooter to not. > > We walked past a garden yesterday that had a pile of the little > solar-charged-LED light things ready to be disposed of. The cheap > batteries die in a year or two.They are usually NiMH batteries in those cheap solar garden lights, not Li-Ion They get run to depletion every night which is a hard life for them. kw
