We have a giant 48 volt bus, and one plugin board (a jet engine alternator simulator) will have a hunky full-bridge dc/dc converter making +-60 volts. Startup makes hundreds-of-amps current pulses with side effects, so soft start is a good thing. Here it is: Version 4 SHEET 1 880 680 WIRE -192 -192 -320 -192 WIRE -112 -192 -192 -192 WIRE 80 -192 -112 -192 WIRE 240 -192 176 -192 WIRE 288 -192 240 -192 WIRE 416 -192 368 -192 WIRE 512 -192 416 -192 WIRE 592 -192 512 -192 WIRE 656 -192 592 -192 WIRE -320 -144 -320 -192 WIRE 240 -96 240 -192 WIRE 416 -96 416 -192 WIRE 592 -96 592 -192 WIRE -320 -16 -320 -64 WIRE -192 -16 -192 -192 WIRE -112 -16 -192 -16 WIRE 48 -16 -32 -16 WIRE 96 -16 96 -144 WIRE 96 -16 48 -16 WIRE 240 32 240 -32 WIRE 416 32 416 -32 WIRE 592 32 592 -16 WIRE 96 96 96 -16 WIRE -272 144 -320 144 WIRE -208 144 -272 144 WIRE -48 144 -128 144 WIRE 32 144 -48 144 WIRE -320 192 -320 144 WIRE -48 224 -48 144 WIRE 96 224 96 192 WIRE 240 224 240 112 WIRE 240 224 96 224 WIRE 96 240 96 224 WIRE 240 256 240 224 WIRE -320 320 -320 272 WIRE -48 352 -48 288 WIRE 96 352 96 320 WIRE 240 352 240 320 FLAG -320 -16 0 FLAG 96 352 0 FLAG -320 320 0 FLAG 416 32 0 FLAG 592 32 0 FLAG 512 -192 Vsoft FLAG -112 -192 +48 FLAG 48 -16 G FLAG -48 352 0 FLAG -272 144 ENAB FLAG 240 352 0 SYMBOL voltage -320 -160 R0 WINDOW 0 36 158 Left 2 WINDOW 3 -52 194 Left 2 WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 0 WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 0 SYMATTR InstName V1 SYMATTR Value PULSE(0 48 1m 1m 1m 9) SYMBOL res -16 -32 R90 WINDOW 0 -10 85 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 -37 25 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName R1 SYMATTR Value 10K SYMBOL pmos 176 -144 M270 WINDOW 0 20 180 VLeft 2 WINDOW 3 -10 216 VLeft 2 SYMATTR InstName M1 SYMATTR Value Si7461DP SYMBOL cap -32 288 R180 WINDOW 0 49 41 Left 2 WINDOW 3 43 11 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName C1 SYMATTR Value 10� SYMBOL res 112 336 R180 WINDOW 0 55 73 Left 2 WINDOW 3 55 42 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName R2 SYMATTR Value 2K SYMBOL voltage -320 176 R0 WINDOW 0 50 144 Left 2 WINDOW 3 -46 187 Left 2 WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 0 WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 0 SYMATTR InstName V2 SYMATTR Value PULSE(0 3.3 5m 1u 1u 2) SYMBOL cap 400 -96 R0 WINDOW 0 66 24 Left 2 WINDOW 3 65 53 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName C2 SYMATTR Value 1m SYMBOL res 576 -112 R0 WINDOW 0 63 40 Left 2 WINDOW 3 59 69 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName R3 SYMATTR Value 100 SYMBOL res 272 -176 R270 WINDOW 0 -40 58 VTop 2 WINDOW 3 -44 57 VBottom 2 SYMATTR InstName R4 SYMATTR Value 1m SYMBOL npn 32 96 R0 WINDOW 0 -44 -52 Left 2 WINDOW 3 -74 -22 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName Q1 SYMATTR Value 2N5210 SYMBOL res -112 128 R90 WINDOW 0 67 54 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 72 56 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName R5 SYMATTR Value 10K SYMBOL cap 224 -96 R0 WINDOW 0 -47 24 Left 2 WINDOW 3 -45 55 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName C3 SYMATTR Value 1� SYMBOL res 224 16 R0 WINDOW 0 -48 39 Left 2 WINDOW 3 -51 69 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName R6 SYMATTR Value 500 SYMBOL zener 256 320 R180 WINDOW 0 -68 51 Left 2 WINDOW 3 -86 20 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName D1 SYMATTR Value 1N750 SYMATTR Description Diode SYMATTR Type diode TEXT 488 216 Left 2 !.tran 200m TEXT 464 128 Left 2 ;P944 Soft Start TEXT 448 168 Left 2 ;JL June 20 2023 TEXT -40 104 Left 2 ;BCX70 TEXT -48 -104 Left 2 ;IRFR9120N Peak startup current is just over an amp. We can drive the inverter logic inputs at startup, enable the soft start, and things will ramp up gently.
soft start circuit
Started by ●June 20, 2023
Reply by ●June 20, 20232023-06-20
On Tuesday, June 20, 2023 at 6:05:32 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:> We have a giant 48 volt bus, and one plugin board (a jet engine > alternator simulator) will have a hunky full-bridge dc/dc converter > making +-60 volts. Startup makes hundreds-of-amps current pulses with > side effects, so soft start is a good thing. > > Here it is: > > > Version 4 > SHEET 1 880 680 > WIRE -192 -192 -320 -192 > WIRE -112 -192 -192 -192 > WIRE 80 -192 -112 -192 > WIRE 240 -192 176 -192 > WIRE 288 -192 240 -192 > WIRE 416 -192 368 -192 > WIRE 512 -192 416 -192 > WIRE 592 -192 512 -192 > WIRE 656 -192 592 -192 > WIRE -320 -144 -320 -192 > WIRE 240 -96 240 -192 > WIRE 416 -96 416 -192 > WIRE 592 -96 592 -192 > WIRE -320 -16 -320 -64 > WIRE -192 -16 -192 -192 > WIRE -112 -16 -192 -16 > WIRE 48 -16 -32 -16 > WIRE 96 -16 96 -144 > WIRE 96 -16 48 -16 > WIRE 240 32 240 -32 > WIRE 416 32 416 -32 > WIRE 592 32 592 -16 > WIRE 96 96 96 -16 > WIRE -272 144 -320 144 > WIRE -208 144 -272 144 > WIRE -48 144 -128 144 > WIRE 32 144 -48 144 > WIRE -320 192 -320 144 > WIRE -48 224 -48 144 > WIRE 96 224 96 192 > WIRE 240 224 240 112 > WIRE 240 224 96 224 > WIRE 96 240 96 224 > WIRE 240 256 240 224 > WIRE -320 320 -320 272 > WIRE -48 352 -48 288 > WIRE 96 352 96 320 > WIRE 240 352 240 320 > FLAG -320 -16 0 > FLAG 96 352 0 > FLAG -320 320 0 > FLAG 416 32 0 > FLAG 592 32 0 > FLAG 512 -192 Vsoft > FLAG -112 -192 +48 > FLAG 48 -16 G > FLAG -48 352 0 > FLAG -272 144 ENAB > FLAG 240 352 0 > SYMBOL voltage -320 -160 R0 > WINDOW 0 36 158 Left 2 > WINDOW 3 -52 194 Left 2 > WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 0 > WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 0 > SYMATTR InstName V1 > SYMATTR Value PULSE(0 48 1m 1m 1m 9) > SYMBOL res -16 -32 R90 > WINDOW 0 -10 85 VBottom 2 > WINDOW 3 -37 25 VTop 2 > SYMATTR InstName R1 > SYMATTR Value 10K > SYMBOL pmos 176 -144 M270 > WINDOW 0 20 180 VLeft 2 > WINDOW 3 -10 216 VLeft 2 > SYMATTR InstName M1 > SYMATTR Value Si7461DP > SYMBOL cap -32 288 R180 > WINDOW 0 49 41 Left 2 > WINDOW 3 43 11 Left 2 > SYMATTR InstName C1 > SYMATTR Value 10µ > SYMBOL res 112 336 R180 > WINDOW 0 55 73 Left 2 > WINDOW 3 55 42 Left 2 > SYMATTR InstName R2 > SYMATTR Value 2K > SYMBOL voltage -320 176 R0 > WINDOW 0 50 144 Left 2 > WINDOW 3 -46 187 Left 2 > WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 0 > WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 0 > SYMATTR InstName V2 > SYMATTR Value PULSE(0 3.3 5m 1u 1u 2) > SYMBOL cap 400 -96 R0 > WINDOW 0 66 24 Left 2 > WINDOW 3 65 53 Left 2 > SYMATTR InstName C2 > SYMATTR Value 1m > SYMBOL res 576 -112 R0 > WINDOW 0 63 40 Left 2 > WINDOW 3 59 69 Left 2 > SYMATTR InstName R3 > SYMATTR Value 100 > SYMBOL res 272 -176 R270 > WINDOW 0 -40 58 VTop 2 > WINDOW 3 -44 57 VBottom 2 > SYMATTR InstName R4 > SYMATTR Value 1m > SYMBOL npn 32 96 R0 > WINDOW 0 -44 -52 Left 2 > WINDOW 3 -74 -22 Left 2 > SYMATTR InstName Q1 > SYMATTR Value 2N5210 > SYMBOL res -112 128 R90 > WINDOW 0 67 54 VBottom 2 > WINDOW 3 72 56 VTop 2 > SYMATTR InstName R5 > SYMATTR Value 10K > SYMBOL cap 224 -96 R0 > WINDOW 0 -47 24 Left 2 > WINDOW 3 -45 55 Left 2 > SYMATTR InstName C3 > SYMATTR Value 1µ > SYMBOL res 224 16 R0 > WINDOW 0 -48 39 Left 2 > WINDOW 3 -51 69 Left 2 > SYMATTR InstName R6 > SYMATTR Value 500 > SYMBOL zener 256 320 R180 > WINDOW 0 -68 51 Left 2 > WINDOW 3 -86 20 Left 2 > SYMATTR InstName D1 > SYMATTR Value 1N750 > SYMATTR Description Diode > SYMATTR Type diode > TEXT 488 216 Left 2 !.tran 200m > TEXT 464 128 Left 2 ;P944 Soft Start > TEXT 448 168 Left 2 ;JL June 20 2023 > TEXT -40 104 Left 2 ;BCX70 > TEXT -48 -104 Left 2 ;IRFR9120N > > Peak startup current is just over an amp. We can drive the inverter > logic inputs at startup, enable the soft start, and things will ramp > up gently.Can you put the schematic in dropbox?
Reply by ●June 20, 20232023-06-20
On Tue, 20 Jun 2023 15:32:11 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:>On Tuesday, June 20, 2023 at 6:05:32?PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote: >> We have a giant 48 volt bus, and one plugin board (a jet engine >> alternator simulator) will have a hunky full-bridge dc/dc converter >> making +-60 volts. Startup makes hundreds-of-amps current pulses with >> side effects, so soft start is a good thing. >> >> Here it is: >> >> >> Version 4 >> SHEET 1 880 680 >> WIRE -192 -192 -320 -192 >> WIRE -112 -192 -192 -192 >> WIRE 80 -192 -112 -192 >> WIRE 240 -192 176 -192 >> WIRE 288 -192 240 -192 >> WIRE 416 -192 368 -192 >> WIRE 512 -192 416 -192 >> WIRE 592 -192 512 -192 >> WIRE 656 -192 592 -192 >> WIRE -320 -144 -320 -192 >> WIRE 240 -96 240 -192 >> WIRE 416 -96 416 -192 >> WIRE 592 -96 592 -192 >> WIRE -320 -16 -320 -64 >> WIRE -192 -16 -192 -192 >> WIRE -112 -16 -192 -16 >> WIRE 48 -16 -32 -16 >> WIRE 96 -16 96 -144 >> WIRE 96 -16 48 -16 >> WIRE 240 32 240 -32 >> WIRE 416 32 416 -32 >> WIRE 592 32 592 -16 >> WIRE 96 96 96 -16 >> WIRE -272 144 -320 144 >> WIRE -208 144 -272 144 >> WIRE -48 144 -128 144 >> WIRE 32 144 -48 144 >> WIRE -320 192 -320 144 >> WIRE -48 224 -48 144 >> WIRE 96 224 96 192 >> WIRE 240 224 240 112 >> WIRE 240 224 96 224 >> WIRE 96 240 96 224 >> WIRE 240 256 240 224 >> WIRE -320 320 -320 272 >> WIRE -48 352 -48 288 >> WIRE 96 352 96 320 >> WIRE 240 352 240 320 >> FLAG -320 -16 0 >> FLAG 96 352 0 >> FLAG -320 320 0 >> FLAG 416 32 0 >> FLAG 592 32 0 >> FLAG 512 -192 Vsoft >> FLAG -112 -192 +48 >> FLAG 48 -16 G >> FLAG -48 352 0 >> FLAG -272 144 ENAB >> FLAG 240 352 0 >> SYMBOL voltage -320 -160 R0 >> WINDOW 0 36 158 Left 2 >> WINDOW 3 -52 194 Left 2 >> WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 0 >> WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 0 >> SYMATTR InstName V1 >> SYMATTR Value PULSE(0 48 1m 1m 1m 9) >> SYMBOL res -16 -32 R90 >> WINDOW 0 -10 85 VBottom 2 >> WINDOW 3 -37 25 VTop 2 >> SYMATTR InstName R1 >> SYMATTR Value 10K >> SYMBOL pmos 176 -144 M270 >> WINDOW 0 20 180 VLeft 2 >> WINDOW 3 -10 216 VLeft 2 >> SYMATTR InstName M1 >> SYMATTR Value Si7461DP >> SYMBOL cap -32 288 R180 >> WINDOW 0 49 41 Left 2 >> WINDOW 3 43 11 Left 2 >> SYMATTR InstName C1 >> SYMATTR Value 10� >> SYMBOL res 112 336 R180 >> WINDOW 0 55 73 Left 2 >> WINDOW 3 55 42 Left 2 >> SYMATTR InstName R2 >> SYMATTR Value 2K >> SYMBOL voltage -320 176 R0 >> WINDOW 0 50 144 Left 2 >> WINDOW 3 -46 187 Left 2 >> WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 0 >> WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 0 >> SYMATTR InstName V2 >> SYMATTR Value PULSE(0 3.3 5m 1u 1u 2) >> SYMBOL cap 400 -96 R0 >> WINDOW 0 66 24 Left 2 >> WINDOW 3 65 53 Left 2 >> SYMATTR InstName C2 >> SYMATTR Value 1m >> SYMBOL res 576 -112 R0 >> WINDOW 0 63 40 Left 2 >> WINDOW 3 59 69 Left 2 >> SYMATTR InstName R3 >> SYMATTR Value 100 >> SYMBOL res 272 -176 R270 >> WINDOW 0 -40 58 VTop 2 >> WINDOW 3 -44 57 VBottom 2 >> SYMATTR InstName R4 >> SYMATTR Value 1m >> SYMBOL npn 32 96 R0 >> WINDOW 0 -44 -52 Left 2 >> WINDOW 3 -74 -22 Left 2 >> SYMATTR InstName Q1 >> SYMATTR Value 2N5210 >> SYMBOL res -112 128 R90 >> WINDOW 0 67 54 VBottom 2 >> WINDOW 3 72 56 VTop 2 >> SYMATTR InstName R5 >> SYMATTR Value 10K >> SYMBOL cap 224 -96 R0 >> WINDOW 0 -47 24 Left 2 >> WINDOW 3 -45 55 Left 2 >> SYMATTR InstName C3 >> SYMATTR Value 1� >> SYMBOL res 224 16 R0 >> WINDOW 0 -48 39 Left 2 >> WINDOW 3 -51 69 Left 2 >> SYMATTR InstName R6 >> SYMATTR Value 500 >> SYMBOL zener 256 320 R180 >> WINDOW 0 -68 51 Left 2 >> WINDOW 3 -86 20 Left 2 >> SYMATTR InstName D1 >> SYMATTR Value 1N750 >> SYMATTR Description Diode >> SYMATTR Type diode >> TEXT 488 216 Left 2 !.tran 200m >> TEXT 464 128 Left 2 ;P944 Soft Start >> TEXT 448 168 Left 2 ;JL June 20 2023 >> TEXT -40 104 Left 2 ;BCX70 >> TEXT -48 -104 Left 2 ;IRFR9120N >> >> Peak startup current is just over an amp. We can drive the inverter >> logic inputs at startup, enable the soft start, and things will ramp >> up gently. > > Can you put the schematic in dropbox?https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/burb5r50ptgcj6sqsedxv/P944_Soft_Start_2.jpg?dl=0&rlkey=ig8yieipdyv88h3sz25icok5g You should run LT Spice. It's free and super cool and not hard to learn.
Reply by ●June 20, 20232023-06-20
On 2023-06-20 18:05, John Larkin wrote:> We have a giant 48 volt bus, and one plugin board (a jet engine > alternator simulator) will have a hunky full-bridge dc/dc converter > making +-60 volts. Startup makes hundreds-of-amps current pulses with > side effects, so soft start is a good thing. > > Here it is: > ><snip pretty circuit>> Peak startup current is just over an amp. We can drive the inverter > logic inputs at startup, enable the soft start, and things will ramp > up gently. >Nice, I like it--controlling the ramp rate at the output via AC feedback. I usually do it using a series resistor for the soft start and shorting it out after a delay. Which is better depends on how much energy you have to dump into the caps--you can stuff more joules into a wirewound resistor than a SOT23 FET, I expect. I recently designed a 5V->3.3V LDO that needed really, really good load transient response. The load is that imaging lidar chip, which pulls 7A at 3.3V to run all the fast TIAs. It goes from 600 mA to 7A in under a microsecond, which isn't a really great neighbor. ;) At that kind of dissipation, we can't afford to run much of a duty cycle(*), so the TIA can't run for more than 20-30 us at a time. Thus the supply has to recover to < 1% in < 3 us to leave time for further settling, and of course for the measurements. The proto looks a good bit better than that, so it's quite doable. The upstream supply is a Murata '1/16-brick' DC-DC converter, the IRS-5/10-Q12PF-C. It turns 9-36V into isolated 5V at 10 A, with 4-wire sensing. Pretty swoopy gizmo for $45 at qty 50. Charging up all the reservoir caps for that LDO needs the soft start. Cheers Phil Hobbs (*) 20W isn't much for a processor, say, but we need the top of the chip bare, because, ya know, light has to come in. That makes cooling more complicated. -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 http://electrooptical.net http://hobbs-eo.com
Reply by ●June 20, 20232023-06-20
On Tue, 20 Jun 2023 22:06:46 -0400, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:>On 2023-06-20 18:05, John Larkin wrote: >> We have a giant 48 volt bus, and one plugin board (a jet engine >> alternator simulator) will have a hunky full-bridge dc/dc converter >> making +-60 volts. Startup makes hundreds-of-amps current pulses with >> side effects, so soft start is a good thing. >> >> Here it is: >> >> ><snip pretty circuit> > >> Peak startup current is just over an amp. We can drive the inverter >> logic inputs at startup, enable the soft start, and things will ramp >> up gently. >> > >Nice, I like it--controlling the ramp rate at the output via AC feedback. > >I usually do it using a series resistor for the soft start and shorting >it out after a delay. Which is better depends on how much energy you >have to dump into the caps--you can stuff more joules into a wirewound >resistor than a SOT23 FET, I expect.I'd use a DPAK, which wouldn't get very hot; it's only going to gulp 1.5 joules. But a wirewound resistor and a p-fet switch isn't at all a bad alternative, although it won't get up to the full +48 before the switchover. There may be no resistor value that works. I want to apply the square wave drives to the full bridge, and then ramp up the supply. The other way, supply up first and then start switching, makes nasty hundreds-of-amps pulses. Enormous inductors right after the rectifiers can make it into a sort of forward converter, which also tames the startup, but the inductors are giant and expensive.> >I recently designed a 5V->3.3V LDO that needed really, really good load >transient response. The load is that imaging lidar chip, which pulls 7A >at 3.3V to run all the fast TIAs. It goes from 600 mA to 7A in under a >microsecond, which isn't a really great neighbor. ;)So, you need a clever, very fast feedback loop, or a mess of polymer and ceramic caps.> >At that kind of dissipation, we can't afford to run much of a duty >cycle(*), so the TIA can't run for more than 20-30 us at a time. Thus >the supply has to recover to < 1% in < 3 us to leave time for further >settling, and of course for the measurements. The proto looks a good >bit better than that, so it's quite doable. > >The upstream supply is a Murata '1/16-brick' DC-DC converter, the >IRS-5/10-Q12PF-C. It turns 9-36V into isolated 5V at 10 A, with 4-wire >sensing. Pretty swoopy gizmo for $45 at qty 50.Murata makes nice dc/dc things.> >Charging up all the reservoir caps for that LDO needs the soft start. > >Cheers > >Phil Hobbs > >(*) 20W isn't much for a processor, say, but we need the top of the chip >bare, because, ya know, light has to come in. That makes cooling more >complicated.Oil bath! Oil is transparent!
Reply by ●June 21, 20232023-06-21
On 21-06-2023 04:34, John Larkin wrote:> On Tue, 20 Jun 2023 22:06:46 -0400, Phil Hobbs > <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote: > >> On 2023-06-20 18:05, John Larkin wrote: >>> We have a giant 48 volt bus, and one plugin board (a jet engine >>> alternator simulator) will have a hunky full-bridge dc/dc converter >>> making +-60 volts. Startup makes hundreds-of-amps current pulses with >>> side effects, so soft start is a good thing. >>> >>> Here it is: >>> >>> >> <snip pretty circuit> >>Nice idea about the feedback mechanism :-) Just be away that many FETs cannot be run safely in linear mode due to the spirito effect.
Reply by ●June 21, 20232023-06-21
On 21/06/2023 01:56, John Larkin wrote:> On Tue, 20 Jun 2023 15:32:11 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs > <bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote: > >> On Tuesday, June 20, 2023 at 6:05:32?PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote: >>> We have a giant 48 volt bus, and one plugin board (a jet engine >>> alternator simulator) will have a hunky full-bridge dc/dc converter >>> making +-60 volts. Startup makes hundreds-of-amps current pulses with >>> side effects, so soft start is a good thing. >>> >>> Here it is: >>> >>> >>> Version 4 >>> SHEET 1 880 680 >>> WIRE -192 -192 -320 -192 >>> WIRE -112 -192 -192 -192 >>> WIRE 80 -192 -112 -192 >>> WIRE 240 -192 176 -192 >>> WIRE 288 -192 240 -192 >>> WIRE 416 -192 368 -192 >>> WIRE 512 -192 416 -192 >>> WIRE 592 -192 512 -192 >>> WIRE 656 -192 592 -192 >>> WIRE -320 -144 -320 -192 >>> WIRE 240 -96 240 -192 >>> WIRE 416 -96 416 -192 >>> WIRE 592 -96 592 -192 >>> WIRE -320 -16 -320 -64 >>> WIRE -192 -16 -192 -192 >>> WIRE -112 -16 -192 -16 >>> WIRE 48 -16 -32 -16 >>> WIRE 96 -16 96 -144 >>> WIRE 96 -16 48 -16 >>> WIRE 240 32 240 -32 >>> WIRE 416 32 416 -32 >>> WIRE 592 32 592 -16 >>> WIRE 96 96 96 -16 >>> WIRE -272 144 -320 144 >>> WIRE -208 144 -272 144 >>> WIRE -48 144 -128 144 >>> WIRE 32 144 -48 144 >>> WIRE -320 192 -320 144 >>> WIRE -48 224 -48 144 >>> WIRE 96 224 96 192 >>> WIRE 240 224 240 112 >>> WIRE 240 224 96 224 >>> WIRE 96 240 96 224 >>> WIRE 240 256 240 224 >>> WIRE -320 320 -320 272 >>> WIRE -48 352 -48 288 >>> WIRE 96 352 96 320 >>> WIRE 240 352 240 320 >>> FLAG -320 -16 0 >>> FLAG 96 352 0 >>> FLAG -320 320 0 >>> FLAG 416 32 0 >>> FLAG 592 32 0 >>> FLAG 512 -192 Vsoft >>> FLAG -112 -192 +48 >>> FLAG 48 -16 G >>> FLAG -48 352 0 >>> FLAG -272 144 ENAB >>> FLAG 240 352 0 >>> SYMBOL voltage -320 -160 R0 >>> WINDOW 0 36 158 Left 2 >>> WINDOW 3 -52 194 Left 2 >>> WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 0 >>> WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 0 >>> SYMATTR InstName V1 >>> SYMATTR Value PULSE(0 48 1m 1m 1m 9) >>> SYMBOL res -16 -32 R90 >>> WINDOW 0 -10 85 VBottom 2 >>> WINDOW 3 -37 25 VTop 2 >>> SYMATTR InstName R1 >>> SYMATTR Value 10K >>> SYMBOL pmos 176 -144 M270 >>> WINDOW 0 20 180 VLeft 2 >>> WINDOW 3 -10 216 VLeft 2 >>> SYMATTR InstName M1 >>> SYMATTR Value Si7461DP >>> SYMBOL cap -32 288 R180 >>> WINDOW 0 49 41 Left 2 >>> WINDOW 3 43 11 Left 2 >>> SYMATTR InstName C1 >>> SYMATTR Value 10µ >>> SYMBOL res 112 336 R180 >>> WINDOW 0 55 73 Left 2 >>> WINDOW 3 55 42 Left 2 >>> SYMATTR InstName R2 >>> SYMATTR Value 2K >>> SYMBOL voltage -320 176 R0 >>> WINDOW 0 50 144 Left 2 >>> WINDOW 3 -46 187 Left 2 >>> WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 0 >>> WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 0 >>> SYMATTR InstName V2 >>> SYMATTR Value PULSE(0 3.3 5m 1u 1u 2) >>> SYMBOL cap 400 -96 R0 >>> WINDOW 0 66 24 Left 2 >>> WINDOW 3 65 53 Left 2 >>> SYMATTR InstName C2 >>> SYMATTR Value 1m >>> SYMBOL res 576 -112 R0 >>> WINDOW 0 63 40 Left 2 >>> WINDOW 3 59 69 Left 2 >>> SYMATTR InstName R3 >>> SYMATTR Value 100 >>> SYMBOL res 272 -176 R270 >>> WINDOW 0 -40 58 VTop 2 >>> WINDOW 3 -44 57 VBottom 2 >>> SYMATTR InstName R4 >>> SYMATTR Value 1m >>> SYMBOL npn 32 96 R0 >>> WINDOW 0 -44 -52 Left 2 >>> WINDOW 3 -74 -22 Left 2 >>> SYMATTR InstName Q1 >>> SYMATTR Value 2N5210 >>> SYMBOL res -112 128 R90 >>> WINDOW 0 67 54 VBottom 2 >>> WINDOW 3 72 56 VTop 2 >>> SYMATTR InstName R5 >>> SYMATTR Value 10K >>> SYMBOL cap 224 -96 R0 >>> WINDOW 0 -47 24 Left 2 >>> WINDOW 3 -45 55 Left 2 >>> SYMATTR InstName C3 >>> SYMATTR Value 1µ >>> SYMBOL res 224 16 R0 >>> WINDOW 0 -48 39 Left 2 >>> WINDOW 3 -51 69 Left 2 >>> SYMATTR InstName R6 >>> SYMATTR Value 500 >>> SYMBOL zener 256 320 R180 >>> WINDOW 0 -68 51 Left 2 >>> WINDOW 3 -86 20 Left 2 >>> SYMATTR InstName D1 >>> SYMATTR Value 1N750 >>> SYMATTR Description Diode >>> SYMATTR Type diode >>> TEXT 488 216 Left 2 !.tran 200m >>> TEXT 464 128 Left 2 ;P944 Soft Start >>> TEXT 448 168 Left 2 ;JL June 20 2023 >>> TEXT -40 104 Left 2 ;BCX70 >>> TEXT -48 -104 Left 2 ;IRFR9120N >>> >>> Peak startup current is just over an amp. We can drive the inverter >>> logic inputs at startup, enable the soft start, and things will ramp >>> up gently. >> >> Can you put the schematic in dropbox? > > https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/burb5r50ptgcj6sqsedxv/P944_Soft_Start_2.jpg?dl=0&rlkey=ig8yieipdyv88h3sz25icok5g > > You should run LT Spice. It's free and super cool and not hard to > learn. >Thanks for the dropbox pic, saves having to fire up LT spice. I have always used a resistor shunted by mosfet but your idea is interesting. What is the M1 abs max Vgs Fiddling R1/R2 might limit Vgs but D1 gets in the way? piglet
Reply by ●June 21, 20232023-06-21
On 21/06/2023 08:43, piglet wrote:> On 21/06/2023 01:56, John Larkin wrote: >> On Tue, 20 Jun 2023 15:32:11 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs >> <bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> On Tuesday, June 20, 2023 at 6:05:32?PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote: >>>> We have a giant 48 volt bus, and one plugin board (a jet engine >>>> alternator simulator) will have a hunky full-bridge dc/dc converter >>>> making +-60 volts. Startup makes hundreds-of-amps current pulses with >>>> side effects, so soft start is a good thing. >>>> >>>> Here it is: >>>> >>>> >>>> Version 4 >>>> SHEET 1 880 680 >>>> WIRE -192 -192 -320 -192 >>>> WIRE -112 -192 -192 -192 >>>> WIRE 80 -192 -112 -192 >>>> WIRE 240 -192 176 -192 >>>> WIRE 288 -192 240 -192 >>>> WIRE 416 -192 368 -192 >>>> WIRE 512 -192 416 -192 >>>> WIRE 592 -192 512 -192 >>>> WIRE 656 -192 592 -192 >>>> WIRE -320 -144 -320 -192 >>>> WIRE 240 -96 240 -192 >>>> WIRE 416 -96 416 -192 >>>> WIRE 592 -96 592 -192 >>>> WIRE -320 -16 -320 -64 >>>> WIRE -192 -16 -192 -192 >>>> WIRE -112 -16 -192 -16 >>>> WIRE 48 -16 -32 -16 >>>> WIRE 96 -16 96 -144 >>>> WIRE 96 -16 48 -16 >>>> WIRE 240 32 240 -32 >>>> WIRE 416 32 416 -32 >>>> WIRE 592 32 592 -16 >>>> WIRE 96 96 96 -16 >>>> WIRE -272 144 -320 144 >>>> WIRE -208 144 -272 144 >>>> WIRE -48 144 -128 144 >>>> WIRE 32 144 -48 144 >>>> WIRE -320 192 -320 144 >>>> WIRE -48 224 -48 144 >>>> WIRE 96 224 96 192 >>>> WIRE 240 224 240 112 >>>> WIRE 240 224 96 224 >>>> WIRE 96 240 96 224 >>>> WIRE 240 256 240 224 >>>> WIRE -320 320 -320 272 >>>> WIRE -48 352 -48 288 >>>> WIRE 96 352 96 320 >>>> WIRE 240 352 240 320 >>>> FLAG -320 -16 0 >>>> FLAG 96 352 0 >>>> FLAG -320 320 0 >>>> FLAG 416 32 0 >>>> FLAG 592 32 0 >>>> FLAG 512 -192 Vsoft >>>> FLAG -112 -192 +48 >>>> FLAG 48 -16 G >>>> FLAG -48 352 0 >>>> FLAG -272 144 ENAB >>>> FLAG 240 352 0 >>>> SYMBOL voltage -320 -160 R0 >>>> WINDOW 0 36 158 Left 2 >>>> WINDOW 3 -52 194 Left 2 >>>> WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 0 >>>> WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 0 >>>> SYMATTR InstName V1 >>>> SYMATTR Value PULSE(0 48 1m 1m 1m 9) >>>> SYMBOL res -16 -32 R90 >>>> WINDOW 0 -10 85 VBottom 2 >>>> WINDOW 3 -37 25 VTop 2 >>>> SYMATTR InstName R1 >>>> SYMATTR Value 10K >>>> SYMBOL pmos 176 -144 M270 >>>> WINDOW 0 20 180 VLeft 2 >>>> WINDOW 3 -10 216 VLeft 2 >>>> SYMATTR InstName M1 >>>> SYMATTR Value Si7461DP >>>> SYMBOL cap -32 288 R180 >>>> WINDOW 0 49 41 Left 2 >>>> WINDOW 3 43 11 Left 2 >>>> SYMATTR InstName C1 >>>> SYMATTR Value 10µ >>>> SYMBOL res 112 336 R180 >>>> WINDOW 0 55 73 Left 2 >>>> WINDOW 3 55 42 Left 2 >>>> SYMATTR InstName R2 >>>> SYMATTR Value 2K >>>> SYMBOL voltage -320 176 R0 >>>> WINDOW 0 50 144 Left 2 >>>> WINDOW 3 -46 187 Left 2 >>>> WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 0 >>>> WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 0 >>>> SYMATTR InstName V2 >>>> SYMATTR Value PULSE(0 3.3 5m 1u 1u 2) >>>> SYMBOL cap 400 -96 R0 >>>> WINDOW 0 66 24 Left 2 >>>> WINDOW 3 65 53 Left 2 >>>> SYMATTR InstName C2 >>>> SYMATTR Value 1m >>>> SYMBOL res 576 -112 R0 >>>> WINDOW 0 63 40 Left 2 >>>> WINDOW 3 59 69 Left 2 >>>> SYMATTR InstName R3 >>>> SYMATTR Value 100 >>>> SYMBOL res 272 -176 R270 >>>> WINDOW 0 -40 58 VTop 2 >>>> WINDOW 3 -44 57 VBottom 2 >>>> SYMATTR InstName R4 >>>> SYMATTR Value 1m >>>> SYMBOL npn 32 96 R0 >>>> WINDOW 0 -44 -52 Left 2 >>>> WINDOW 3 -74 -22 Left 2 >>>> SYMATTR InstName Q1 >>>> SYMATTR Value 2N5210 >>>> SYMBOL res -112 128 R90 >>>> WINDOW 0 67 54 VBottom 2 >>>> WINDOW 3 72 56 VTop 2 >>>> SYMATTR InstName R5 >>>> SYMATTR Value 10K >>>> SYMBOL cap 224 -96 R0 >>>> WINDOW 0 -47 24 Left 2 >>>> WINDOW 3 -45 55 Left 2 >>>> SYMATTR InstName C3 >>>> SYMATTR Value 1µ >>>> SYMBOL res 224 16 R0 >>>> WINDOW 0 -48 39 Left 2 >>>> WINDOW 3 -51 69 Left 2 >>>> SYMATTR InstName R6 >>>> SYMATTR Value 500 >>>> SYMBOL zener 256 320 R180 >>>> WINDOW 0 -68 51 Left 2 >>>> WINDOW 3 -86 20 Left 2 >>>> SYMATTR InstName D1 >>>> SYMATTR Value 1N750 >>>> SYMATTR Description Diode >>>> SYMATTR Type diode >>>> TEXT 488 216 Left 2 !.tran 200m >>>> TEXT 464 128 Left 2 ;P944 Soft Start >>>> TEXT 448 168 Left 2 ;JL June 20 2023 >>>> TEXT -40 104 Left 2 ;BCX70 >>>> TEXT -48 -104 Left 2 ;IRFR9120N >>>> >>>> Peak startup current is just over an amp. We can drive the inverter >>>> logic inputs at startup, enable the soft start, and things will ramp >>>> up gently. >>> >>> Can you put the schematic in dropbox? >> >> https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/burb5r50ptgcj6sqsedxv/P944_Soft_Start_2.jpg?dl=0&rlkey=ig8yieipdyv88h3sz25icok5g >> >> You should run LT Spice. It's free and super cool and not hard to >> learn. >> > > Thanks for the dropbox pic, saves having to fire up LT spice. I have > always used a resistor shunted by mosfet but your idea is interesting. > > What is the M1 abs max Vgs Fiddling R1/R2 might limit Vgs but D1 gets in > the way? > > piglet > > >Ignore that, I see the enable voltage is 3.3V now so you have very nicely taken care of Vgs max etc. piglet
Reply by ●June 21, 20232023-06-21
On Wed, 21 Jun 2023 08:43:05 +0100, piglet <erichpwagner@hotmail.com> wrote:>On 21/06/2023 01:56, John Larkin wrote: >> On Tue, 20 Jun 2023 15:32:11 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs >> <bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> On Tuesday, June 20, 2023 at 6:05:32?PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote: >>>> We have a giant 48 volt bus, and one plugin board (a jet engine >>>> alternator simulator) will have a hunky full-bridge dc/dc converter >>>> making +-60 volts. Startup makes hundreds-of-amps current pulses with >>>> side effects, so soft start is a good thing. >>>> >>>> Here it is: >>>> >>>> >>>> Version 4 >>>> SHEET 1 880 680 >>>> WIRE -192 -192 -320 -192 >>>> WIRE -112 -192 -192 -192 >>>> WIRE 80 -192 -112 -192 >>>> WIRE 240 -192 176 -192 >>>> WIRE 288 -192 240 -192 >>>> WIRE 416 -192 368 -192 >>>> WIRE 512 -192 416 -192 >>>> WIRE 592 -192 512 -192 >>>> WIRE 656 -192 592 -192 >>>> WIRE -320 -144 -320 -192 >>>> WIRE 240 -96 240 -192 >>>> WIRE 416 -96 416 -192 >>>> WIRE 592 -96 592 -192 >>>> WIRE -320 -16 -320 -64 >>>> WIRE -192 -16 -192 -192 >>>> WIRE -112 -16 -192 -16 >>>> WIRE 48 -16 -32 -16 >>>> WIRE 96 -16 96 -144 >>>> WIRE 96 -16 48 -16 >>>> WIRE 240 32 240 -32 >>>> WIRE 416 32 416 -32 >>>> WIRE 592 32 592 -16 >>>> WIRE 96 96 96 -16 >>>> WIRE -272 144 -320 144 >>>> WIRE -208 144 -272 144 >>>> WIRE -48 144 -128 144 >>>> WIRE 32 144 -48 144 >>>> WIRE -320 192 -320 144 >>>> WIRE -48 224 -48 144 >>>> WIRE 96 224 96 192 >>>> WIRE 240 224 240 112 >>>> WIRE 240 224 96 224 >>>> WIRE 96 240 96 224 >>>> WIRE 240 256 240 224 >>>> WIRE -320 320 -320 272 >>>> WIRE -48 352 -48 288 >>>> WIRE 96 352 96 320 >>>> WIRE 240 352 240 320 >>>> FLAG -320 -16 0 >>>> FLAG 96 352 0 >>>> FLAG -320 320 0 >>>> FLAG 416 32 0 >>>> FLAG 592 32 0 >>>> FLAG 512 -192 Vsoft >>>> FLAG -112 -192 +48 >>>> FLAG 48 -16 G >>>> FLAG -48 352 0 >>>> FLAG -272 144 ENAB >>>> FLAG 240 352 0 >>>> SYMBOL voltage -320 -160 R0 >>>> WINDOW 0 36 158 Left 2 >>>> WINDOW 3 -52 194 Left 2 >>>> WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 0 >>>> WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 0 >>>> SYMATTR InstName V1 >>>> SYMATTR Value PULSE(0 48 1m 1m 1m 9) >>>> SYMBOL res -16 -32 R90 >>>> WINDOW 0 -10 85 VBottom 2 >>>> WINDOW 3 -37 25 VTop 2 >>>> SYMATTR InstName R1 >>>> SYMATTR Value 10K >>>> SYMBOL pmos 176 -144 M270 >>>> WINDOW 0 20 180 VLeft 2 >>>> WINDOW 3 -10 216 VLeft 2 >>>> SYMATTR InstName M1 >>>> SYMATTR Value Si7461DP >>>> SYMBOL cap -32 288 R180 >>>> WINDOW 0 49 41 Left 2 >>>> WINDOW 3 43 11 Left 2 >>>> SYMATTR InstName C1 >>>> SYMATTR Value 10� >>>> SYMBOL res 112 336 R180 >>>> WINDOW 0 55 73 Left 2 >>>> WINDOW 3 55 42 Left 2 >>>> SYMATTR InstName R2 >>>> SYMATTR Value 2K >>>> SYMBOL voltage -320 176 R0 >>>> WINDOW 0 50 144 Left 2 >>>> WINDOW 3 -46 187 Left 2 >>>> WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 0 >>>> WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 0 >>>> SYMATTR InstName V2 >>>> SYMATTR Value PULSE(0 3.3 5m 1u 1u 2) >>>> SYMBOL cap 400 -96 R0 >>>> WINDOW 0 66 24 Left 2 >>>> WINDOW 3 65 53 Left 2 >>>> SYMATTR InstName C2 >>>> SYMATTR Value 1m >>>> SYMBOL res 576 -112 R0 >>>> WINDOW 0 63 40 Left 2 >>>> WINDOW 3 59 69 Left 2 >>>> SYMATTR InstName R3 >>>> SYMATTR Value 100 >>>> SYMBOL res 272 -176 R270 >>>> WINDOW 0 -40 58 VTop 2 >>>> WINDOW 3 -44 57 VBottom 2 >>>> SYMATTR InstName R4 >>>> SYMATTR Value 1m >>>> SYMBOL npn 32 96 R0 >>>> WINDOW 0 -44 -52 Left 2 >>>> WINDOW 3 -74 -22 Left 2 >>>> SYMATTR InstName Q1 >>>> SYMATTR Value 2N5210 >>>> SYMBOL res -112 128 R90 >>>> WINDOW 0 67 54 VBottom 2 >>>> WINDOW 3 72 56 VTop 2 >>>> SYMATTR InstName R5 >>>> SYMATTR Value 10K >>>> SYMBOL cap 224 -96 R0 >>>> WINDOW 0 -47 24 Left 2 >>>> WINDOW 3 -45 55 Left 2 >>>> SYMATTR InstName C3 >>>> SYMATTR Value 1� >>>> SYMBOL res 224 16 R0 >>>> WINDOW 0 -48 39 Left 2 >>>> WINDOW 3 -51 69 Left 2 >>>> SYMATTR InstName R6 >>>> SYMATTR Value 500 >>>> SYMBOL zener 256 320 R180 >>>> WINDOW 0 -68 51 Left 2 >>>> WINDOW 3 -86 20 Left 2 >>>> SYMATTR InstName D1 >>>> SYMATTR Value 1N750 >>>> SYMATTR Description Diode >>>> SYMATTR Type diode >>>> TEXT 488 216 Left 2 !.tran 200m >>>> TEXT 464 128 Left 2 ;P944 Soft Start >>>> TEXT 448 168 Left 2 ;JL June 20 2023 >>>> TEXT -40 104 Left 2 ;BCX70 >>>> TEXT -48 -104 Left 2 ;IRFR9120N >>>> >>>> Peak startup current is just over an amp. We can drive the inverter >>>> logic inputs at startup, enable the soft start, and things will ramp >>>> up gently. >>> >>> Can you put the schematic in dropbox? >> >> https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/burb5r50ptgcj6sqsedxv/P944_Soft_Start_2.jpg?dl=0&rlkey=ig8yieipdyv88h3sz25icok5g >> >> You should run LT Spice. It's free and super cool and not hard to >> learn. >> > >Thanks for the dropbox pic, saves having to fire up LT spice. I have >always used a resistor shunted by mosfet but your idea is interesting. > >What is the M1 abs max Vgs Fiddling R1/R2 might limit Vgs but D1 gets in >the way? > >piglet > >I'd have to order a new pfet, and may as well get one that is gate protected, just in case. They typically zener around 22 volts. It probably doesn't need D1. That's just to protect the npn in case something goofy happens to a power rail. I certainly don't need it in Spice! It's just a reminder.
Reply by ●June 21, 20232023-06-21
On Wed, 21 Jun 2023 09:37:18 +0200, Klaus Vestergaard Kragelund <klauskvik@hotmail.com> wrote:>On 21-06-2023 04:34, John Larkin wrote: >> On Tue, 20 Jun 2023 22:06:46 -0400, Phil Hobbs >> <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote: >> >>> On 2023-06-20 18:05, John Larkin wrote: >>>> We have a giant 48 volt bus, and one plugin board (a jet engine >>>> alternator simulator) will have a hunky full-bridge dc/dc converter >>>> making +-60 volts. Startup makes hundreds-of-amps current pulses with >>>> side effects, so soft start is a good thing. >>>> >>>> Here it is: >>>> >>>> >>> <snip pretty circuit> >>> >Nice idea about the feedback mechanism :-) > >Just be away that many FETs cannot be run safely in linear mode due to >the spirito effect.Yes, I've blown up lots of big fets that way. This one won't work very hard during the ramp-up.
