I'm backing off of the neon sign transformer 12kV power supply. For the reasons I was told, the low frequency requires big capacitors. Also, I ordered 20kV caps from Amazon and 6 of the 12 failed at under 4kV. I should have read the reviews, it is well shown these fail. So, I want a continuous DC voltage, I can imagine the old tripler design gave a decent continuous DC, but I'm looking at this and wondering what kind of DC they have. https://www.ebay.com/itm/185000537079?var=692782023047 I don't see a tripler, I don't see any diodes or filter caps, I'm hesitant to spend the fifty bucks to find it isn't what I need. Any thoughts about this? Thanks, Mikek
Explain the output of the old TV flyback transformers.
Started by ●June 13, 2023
Reply by ●June 13, 20232023-06-13
On Tue, 13 Jun 2023 09:22:20 -0700 (PDT), Lamont Cranston <amdx62@gmail.com> wrote:>I'm backing off of the neon sign transformer 12kV power supply. For the reasons I was told, the low frequency requires big capacitors. Also, I ordered 20kV caps from Amazon and 6 of the 12 failed at under 4kV. I should have read the reviews, it is well shown these fail. > So, I want a continuous DC voltage, I can imagine the old tripler design gave a decent continuous DC, but I'm looking at this and wondering what kind of DC they have. https://www.ebay.com/itm/185000537079?var=692782023047 > I don't see a tripler, I don't see any diodes or filter caps, I'm hesitant to spend the fifty bucks to find it isn't what I need. >Any thoughts about this? > Thanks, MikekSome color TVs had a potted flyback-rectifier thing. https://www.ebay.com/itm/266268712401?hash=item3dfeda1dd1:g:ZjUAAOSwMtJjVfKj&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA4FkSVq2pZQAQFQ3H12RU5oBxz034DQjMgNb0SpovprqoAC9lmUILzo7UQOD6mORpnWwDWDkzPWIUtDhR40PoeddhTnTcHOIMviQ7J%2B4TKb4EENkJXKDXyP5N99Q5SDpcmLbn%2B52pNUnNG7D9wMmK8DJG1Ipa2UaBiWpAlOGLbl80axK%2BKmL9Cua77cwAJmfwF39%2FXC%2BP4BUGfJCc6I2ejKGqduU1xpDuLmVnOmw05c9rl8Rj6JOH2YLiOv%2BedgBO2I5zzWYjSwZKdXGomfJo1hNa6CQHPd22X9mybYVrJ2%2Bk%7Ctkp%3ABFBM1ICr25Zi
Reply by ●June 13, 20232023-06-13
On Tuesday, June 13, 2023 at 12:04:38 PM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:> On Tue, 13 Jun 2023 09:22:20 -0700 (PDT), Lamont Cranston > <amd...@gmail.com> wrote: > > >I'm backing off of the neon sign transformer 12kV power supply. For the reasons I was told, the low frequency requires big capacitors. Also, I ordered 20kV caps from Amazon and 6 of the 12 failed at under 4kV. I should have read the reviews, it is well shown these fail. > > So, I want a continuous DC voltage, I can imagine the old tripler design gave a decent continuous DC, but I'm looking at this and wondering what kind of DC they have. https://www.ebay.com/itm/185000537079?var=692782023047 > > I don't see a tripler, I don't see any diodes or filter caps, I'm hesitant to spend the fifty bucks to find it isn't what I need. > >Any thoughts about this? > > Thanks, Mikek > Some color TVs had a potted flyback-rectifier thing. > > https://www.ebay.com/itm/266268712401?hash=item3dfeda1dd1:g:ZjUAAOSwMtJjVfKj&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA4FkSVq2pZQAQFQ3H12RU5oBxz034DQjMgNb0SpovprqoAC9lmUILzo7UQOD6mORpnWwDWDkzPWIUtDhR40PoeddhTnTcHOIMviQ7J%2B4TKb4EENkJXKDXyP5N99Q5SDpcmLbn%2B52pNUnNG7D9wMmK8DJG1Ipa2UaBiWpAlOGLbl80axK%2BKmL9Cua77cwAJmfwF39%2FXC%2BP4BUGfJCc6I2ejKGqduU1xpDuLmVnOmw05c9rl8Rj6JOH2YLiOv%2BedgBO2I5zzWYjSwZKdXGomfJo1hNa6CQHPd22X9mybYVrJ2%2Bk%7Ctkp%3ABFBM1ICr25ZiAny idea what the duty cycle of the input was on the TV flybacks? Mikek
Reply by ●June 13, 20232023-06-13
On 13.6.2023 20.57, Lamont Cranston wrote:> On Tuesday, June 13, 2023 at 12:04:38 PM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote: >> On Tue, 13 Jun 2023 09:22:20 -0700 (PDT), Lamont Cranston >> <amd...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> I'm backing off of the neon sign transformer 12kV power supply. For the reasons I was told, the low frequency requires big capacitors. Also, I ordered 20kV caps from Amazon and 6 of the 12 failed at under 4kV. I should have read the reviews, it is well shown these fail. >>> So, I want a continuous DC voltage, I can imagine the old tripler design gave a decent continuous DC, but I'm looking at this and wondering what kind of DC they have. https://www.ebay.com/itm/185000537079?var=692782023047 >>> I don't see a tripler, I don't see any diodes or filter caps, I'm hesitant to spend the fifty bucks to find it isn't what I need. >>> Any thoughts about this? >>> Thanks, Mikek >> Some color TVs had a potted flyback-rectifier thing. >> >> https://www.ebay.com/itm/266268712401?hash=item3dfeda1dd1:g:ZjUAAOSwMtJjVfKj&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA4FkSVq2pZQAQFQ3H12RU5oBxz034DQjMgNb0SpovprqoAC9lmUILzo7UQOD6mORpnWwDWDkzPWIUtDhR40PoeddhTnTcHOIMviQ7J%2B4TKb4EENkJXKDXyP5N99Q5SDpcmLbn%2B52pNUnNG7D9wMmK8DJG1Ipa2UaBiWpAlOGLbl80axK%2BKmL9Cua77cwAJmfwF39%2FXC%2BP4BUGfJCc6I2ejKGqduU1xpDuLmVnOmw05c9rl8Rj6JOH2YLiOv%2BedgBO2I5zzWYjSwZKdXGomfJo1hNa6CQHPd22X9mybYVrJ2%2Bk%7Ctkp%3ABFBM1ICr25Zi > > Any idea what the duty cycle of the input was on the TV flybacks? > MikekFor CCIR type G analog raster (625 line, 50 half-frames / second), the trace time was about 53 us and retrace 11 us, for a sum of 64 us. -- -TV
Reply by ●June 13, 20232023-06-13
On Tuesday, June 13, 2023 at 1:38:10 PM UTC-5, Tauno Voipio wrote:> On 13.6.2023 20.57, Lamont Cranston wrote: > > On Tuesday, June 13, 2023 at 12:04:38 PM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote: > >> On Tue, 13 Jun 2023 09:22:20 -0700 (PDT), Lamont Cranston > >> <amd...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > >>> I'm backing off of the neon sign transformer 12kV power supply. For the reasons I was told, the low frequency requires big capacitors. Also, I ordered 20kV caps from Amazon and 6 of the 12 failed at under 4kV. I should have read the reviews, it is well shown these fail. > >>> So, I want a continuous DC voltage, I can imagine the old tripler design gave a decent continuous DC, but I'm looking at this and wondering what kind of DC they have. https://www.ebay.com/itm/185000537079?var=692782023047 > >>> I don't see a tripler, I don't see any diodes or filter caps, I'm hesitant to spend the fifty bucks to find it isn't what I need. > >>> Any thoughts about this? > >>> Thanks, Mikek > >> Some color TVs had a potted flyback-rectifier thing. > >> > >> https://www.ebay.com/itm/266268712401?hash=item3dfeda1dd1:g:ZjUAAOSwMtJjVfKj&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA4FkSVq2pZQAQFQ3H12RU5oBxz034DQjMgNb0SpovprqoAC9lmUILzo7UQOD6mORpnWwDWDkzPWIUtDhR40PoeddhTnTcHOIMviQ7J%2B4TKb4EENkJXKDXyP5N99Q5SDpcmLbn%2B52pNUnNG7D9wMmK8DJG1Ipa2UaBiWpAlOGLbl80axK%2BKmL9Cua77cwAJmfwF39%2FXC%2BP4BUGfJCc6I2ejKGqduU1xpDuLmVnOmw05c9rl8Rj6JOH2YLiOv%2BedgBO2I5zzWYjSwZKdXGomfJo1hNa6CQHPd22X9mybYVrJ2%2Bk%7Ctkp%3ABFBM1ICr25Zi > > > > Any idea what the duty cycle of the input was on the TV flybacks? > > Mikek > For CCIR type G analog raster (625 line, 50 half-frames / second), the > trace time was about 53 us and retrace 11 us, for a sum of 64 us. > > -- > > -TVI have a couple of defective High frequency switching type neon sign power supplies. Neither work and seem to have open secondaries. I removed the switching pcb and found defective IRF 630 FETs, I replaced them and got it switching, but no HV. So, of course I stuck the transformer in the barbecue and melted off all the tar, and a little kerosene and it was free. https://www.dropbox.com/s/xsc1f0edqc0w3jk/Neon%20switching%20supply%20transformer%202.jpg?dl=0 But, I was surprised to see a pcb encased in the tar, that connects the two secondary windings at the CT. It has a 555 a couple of SCRs and caps a diodes to make a power supply for the 555. I'm not sure of the purpose of this pcb, it would seem like current limiting, but this runs at 21kHz, I would think secondary impedance would be enough to limit current. Any thought as to what the pcb connecting the two secondary windings together would be doing? https://www.dropbox.com/s/4c4he4esxxtjn7y/Neon%20switching%20supply%20CT%20pcb.jpg?dl=0 Mikek
Reply by ●June 13, 20232023-06-13
On 2023/06/13 9:22 a.m., Lamont Cranston wrote:> I'm backing off of the neon sign transformer 12kV power supply. For the reasons I was told, the low frequency requires big capacitors. Also, I ordered 20kV caps from Amazon and 6 of the 12 failed at under 4kV. I should have read the reviews, it is well shown these fail. > So, I want a continuous DC voltage, I can imagine the old tripler design gave a decent continuous DC, but I'm looking at this and wondering what kind of DC they have. https://www.ebay.com/itm/185000537079?var=692782023047 > I don't see a tripler, I don't see any diodes or filter caps, I'm hesitant to spend the fifty bucks to find it isn't what I need. > Any thoughts about this? > Thanks, Mikek >What sort of HV are you after and what are the current requirements? A Neon sign transformer will give you milliamps at the rated output voltage which could be deadly if misapplied... The HV from a TV won't kill you, it just gives you one heck of a jolt! You may want to just use an old B&W or colour TV that you pick up at a thrift shop and use that as your HV source. It all depends on your application. John :-#)# -- (Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup) John's Jukes Ltd. #7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3 (604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
Reply by ●June 14, 20232023-06-14
On Tuesday, June 13, 2023 at 7:49:53 PM UTC-5, John Robertson wrote:> On 2023/06/13 9:22 a.m., Lamont Cranston wrote: > > I'm backing off of the neon sign transformer 12kV power supply. For the reasons I was told, the low frequency requires big capacitors. Also, I ordered 20kV caps from Amazon and 6 of the 12 failed at under 4kV. I should have read the reviews, it is well shown these fail. > > So, I want a continuous DC voltage, I can imagine the old tripler design gave a decent continuous DC, but I'm looking at this and wondering what kind of DC they have. https://www.ebay.com/itm/185000537079?var=692782023047 > > I don't see a tripler, I don't see any diodes or filter caps, I'm hesitant to spend the fifty bucks to find it isn't what I need. > > Any thoughts about this? > > Thanks, Mikek > > > What sort of HV are you after and what are the current requirements? > > A Neon sign transformer will give you milliamps at the rated output > voltage which could be deadly if misapplied... > > The HV from a TV won't kill you, it just gives you one heck of a jolt! > > You may want to just use an old B&W or colour TV that you pick up at a > thrift shop and use that as your HV source. > > It all depends on your application.Please see "Developing High Voltage pulses" June 5. I have a functioning Pulser, but need a 12kV power source that will provide 2ma of current. btw, do still see old CRT TVs at thrift stores? Thanks, Mikek
Reply by ●June 14, 20232023-06-14
On Tuesday, 13 June 2023 at 17:22:25 UTC+1, Lamont Cranston wrote:> I'm backing off of the neon sign transformer 12kV power supply. For the reasons I was told, the low frequency requires big capacitors. Also, I ordered 20kV caps from Amazon and 6 of the 12 failed at under 4kV. I should have read the reviews, it is well shown these fail. > So, I want a continuous DC voltage, I can imagine the old tripler design gave a decent continuous DC, but I'm looking at this and wondering what kind of DC they have. https://www.ebay.com/itm/185000537079?var=692782023047 > I don't see a tripler, I don't see any diodes or filter caps, I'm hesitant to spend the fifty bucks to find it isn't what I need. > Any thoughts about this? > Thanks, Mikek100w is unlikely. If true it's lethal. If untrue, the voltage is also unlikely to be true. Output is either ac or rectified dc. Roll your own cap if you want nice dc, or buy an old doorknob cap that's tested good.
Reply by ●June 14, 20232023-06-14
On Wednesday, June 14, 2023 at 5:09:03 PM UTC-5, Tabby wrote:> On Tuesday, 13 June 2023 at 17:22:25 UTC+1, Lamont Cranston wrote: > > I'm backing off of the neon sign transformer 12kV power supply. For the reasons I was told, the low frequency requires big capacitors. Also, I ordered 20kV caps from Amazon and 6 of the 12 failed at under 4kV. I should have read the reviews, it is well shown these fail. > > So, I want a continuous DC voltage, I can imagine the old tripler design gave a decent continuous DC, but I'm looking at this and wondering what kind of DC they have. https://www.ebay.com/itm/185000537079?var=692782023047 > > I don't see a tripler, I don't see any diodes or filter caps, I'm hesitant to spend the fifty bucks to find it isn't what I need. > > Any thoughts about this? > > Thanks, Mikek> 100w is unlikely. If true it's lethal. If untrue, the voltage is also unlikely to be true. > Output is either ac or rectified dc. Roll your own cap if you want nice dc, or buy an old doorknob cap that's tested good.I sent a question about the output to the seller, they forwarded it on to the manufacturer.
Reply by ●June 15, 20232023-06-15
On 2023/06/13 8:06 p.m., Lamont Cranston wrote:> On Tuesday, June 13, 2023 at 7:49:53 PM UTC-5, John Robertson wrote: >> On 2023/06/13 9:22 a.m., Lamont Cranston wrote: >>> I'm backing off of the neon sign transformer 12kV power supply. For the reasons I was told, the low frequency requires big capacitors. Also, I ordered 20kV caps from Amazon and 6 of the 12 failed at under 4kV. I should have read the reviews, it is well shown these fail. >>> So, I want a continuous DC voltage, I can imagine the old tripler design gave a decent continuous DC, but I'm looking at this and wondering what kind of DC they have. https://www.ebay.com/itm/185000537079?var=692782023047 >>> I don't see a tripler, I don't see any diodes or filter caps, I'm hesitant to spend the fifty bucks to find it isn't what I need. >>> Any thoughts about this? >>> Thanks, Mikek >>> >> What sort of HV are you after and what are the current requirements? >> >> A Neon sign transformer will give you milliamps at the rated output >> voltage which could be deadly if misapplied... >> >> The HV from a TV won't kill you, it just gives you one heck of a jolt! >> >> You may want to just use an old B&W or colour TV that you pick up at a >> thrift shop and use that as your HV source. >> >> It all depends on your application. > > Please see "Developing High Voltage pulses" June 5. > I have a functioning Pulser, but need a 12kV power source that will provide 2ma of current. > btw, do still see old CRT TVs at thrift stores? > Thanks, MikekI have a pile of monitors here and flybacks as we service old arcade game monitors. You need 200ma at 120VDC if the flyback is lossless. Might be able to do that. You can use a B&W flyback as they tend to be running around 12KV and the primary side is pulsed 73VDC or so. 19" colour monitors flybacks run around 15 to 20KV at a B+ of 120VDC pulsed. Lower B+ would give lower output voltage of course. A common flyback is the GO7 Electrohome which runs at 15,xxx Khz and has built in HV diodes. I sell these here: https://flippers.com/catalog_oc/go7-electrohome-flyback-replacement-a-29951b You could use a picture tube as a smoothing filter cap I imagine... John :-#)# -- (Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup) John's Jukes Ltd. #7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3 (604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
