On Tue, 27 Dec 2022 15:47:22 +0000, Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:>On 26/12/2022 17:16, Ricky wrote: >> I know it costs more to make a more efficient LED bulb for room >> lighting. Is there also a tradeoff between efficiency and operating >> life? I can't think of a mechanism, but I'm not so familiar with LED >> light bulb design. > >If you push the blue light flux and/or residual heating high enough it >can damage/darken the phosphor used to generate the yellow light. > >The surface brightness of recent LEDs is now about the same per unit >area as the sun - which makes it a bad idea to look directly at them. >Blue, violet or UV ones especially.I have a 12-volt, roughly 1 cm square, array that looks like a welding torch. It's the kind used in street lamps. Why don't they diffuse LED street lamps? They are annoying.
LED Bulb Efficiency vs. Operating Life
Started by ●December 26, 2022
Reply by ●December 27, 20222022-12-27
Reply by ●December 28, 20222022-12-28
On a sunny day (Tue, 27 Dec 2022 15:47:22 +0000) it happened Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote in <tof42a$11vb$1@gioia.aioe.org>:>On 26/12/2022 17:16, Ricky wrote: >> I know it costs more to make a more efficient LED bulb for room >> lighting. Is there also a tradeoff between efficiency and operating >> life? I can't think of a mechanism, but I'm not so familiar with LED >> light bulb design. > >If you push the blue light flux and/or residual heating high enough it >can damage/darken the phosphor used to generate the yellow light. > >The surface brightness of recent LEDs is now about the same per unit >area as the sun - which makes it a bad idea to look directly at them. >Blue, violet or UV ones especially.I have out tape over many LEDs on equipment I have, can still see those through the tape. It avoids blinding.
Reply by ●December 28, 20222022-12-28
On 27/12/2022 16:39, John Larkin wrote:> On Tue, 27 Dec 2022 15:47:22 +0000, Martin Brown > <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote: > >> On 26/12/2022 17:16, Ricky wrote: >>> I know it costs more to make a more efficient LED bulb for room >>> lighting. Is there also a tradeoff between efficiency and operating >>> life? I can't think of a mechanism, but I'm not so familiar with LED >>> light bulb design. >> >> If you push the blue light flux and/or residual heating high enough it >> can damage/darken the phosphor used to generate the yellow light. >> >> The surface brightness of recent LEDs is now about the same per unit >> area as the sun - which makes it a bad idea to look directly at them. >> Blue, violet or UV ones especially. > > I have a 12-volt, roughly 1 cm square, array that looks like a welding > torch. It's the kind used in street lamps. > > Why don't they diffuse LED street lamps? They are annoying.The engineers designing them are control freaks and want the ray trace illumination pattern to go exactly where they choose to send it. I agree that a bit of diffusion would help take the edge of them. I find their very hard full cut off somewhat annoying when combined with black poles since it is impossible to pick out the road ahead. OTOH as an astronomer I appreciate the darker skies (especially since the ones round here switch off completely midnight through 5am). OTOH if you have ever been near a low pressure sodium street lamp on the bench - even though diffused they are hellishly bright close up! Nothing LED annoys me quite so much as red and green traffic indicators that flash at a speed that peripheral vision can time resolve. When near a pedestrian crossing I see a line of distinct images from them as my eye cadence sweeps the scene. Some makes are particularly bad for it. -- Regards, Martin Brown
Reply by ●December 28, 20222022-12-28
On 28/12/2022 05:27, Jan Panteltje wrote:> On a sunny day (Tue, 27 Dec 2022 15:47:22 +0000) it happened Martin Brown > <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote in <tof42a$11vb$1@gioia.aioe.org>: > >> On 26/12/2022 17:16, Ricky wrote: >>> I know it costs more to make a more efficient LED bulb for room >>> lighting. Is there also a tradeoff between efficiency and operating >>> life? I can't think of a mechanism, but I'm not so familiar with LED >>> light bulb design. >> >> If you push the blue light flux and/or residual heating high enough it >> can damage/darken the phosphor used to generate the yellow light. >> >> The surface brightness of recent LEDs is now about the same per unit >> area as the sun - which makes it a bad idea to look directly at them. >> Blue, violet or UV ones especially. > > I have out tape over many LEDs on equipment I have, can still see those > through the tape. > It avoids blinding. >A place I worked once produced an instrument with a five digit seven-segment LED display. Because they were new and fashionable, blue LEDs were used. Every single one I saw in the field had Kapton tape over the display, which tamed it to a nice gentle dull orange. -- Cheers Clive
Reply by ●December 28, 20222022-12-28
On Wed, 28 Dec 2022 09:06:42 +0000, Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:>On 27/12/2022 16:39, John Larkin wrote: >> On Tue, 27 Dec 2022 15:47:22 +0000, Martin Brown >> <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote: >> >>> On 26/12/2022 17:16, Ricky wrote: >>>> I know it costs more to make a more efficient LED bulb for room >>>> lighting. Is there also a tradeoff between efficiency and operating >>>> life? I can't think of a mechanism, but I'm not so familiar with LED >>>> light bulb design. >>> >>> If you push the blue light flux and/or residual heating high enough it >>> can damage/darken the phosphor used to generate the yellow light. >>> >>> The surface brightness of recent LEDs is now about the same per unit >>> area as the sun - which makes it a bad idea to look directly at them. >>> Blue, violet or UV ones especially. >> >> I have a 12-volt, roughly 1 cm square, array that looks like a welding >> torch. It's the kind used in street lamps. >> >> Why don't they diffuse LED street lamps? They are annoying. > >The engineers designing them are control freaks and want the ray trace >illumination pattern to go exactly where they choose to send it. I agree >that a bit of diffusion would help take the edge of them. > >I find their very hard full cut off somewhat annoying when combined with >black poles since it is impossible to pick out the road ahead. OTOH as >an astronomer I appreciate the darker skies (especially since the ones >round here switch off completely midnight through 5am). > >OTOH if you have ever been near a low pressure sodium street lamp on the >bench - even though diffused they are hellishly bright close up! > >Nothing LED annoys me quite so much as red and green traffic indicators >that flash at a speed that peripheral vision can time resolve. When near >a pedestrian crossing I see a line of distinct images from them as my >eye cadence sweeps the scene. Some makes are particularly bad for it.LED stop lights tend to have weird patterns of obviously-series LEDs that are out or flashing intermittently.
Reply by ●December 28, 20222022-12-28
On Wed, 28 Dec 2022 05:27:25 GMT, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:>On a sunny day (Tue, 27 Dec 2022 15:47:22 +0000) it happened Martin Brown ><'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote in <tof42a$11vb$1@gioia.aioe.org>: > >>On 26/12/2022 17:16, Ricky wrote: >>> I know it costs more to make a more efficient LED bulb for room >>> lighting. Is there also a tradeoff between efficiency and operating >>> life? I can't think of a mechanism, but I'm not so familiar with LED >>> light bulb design. >> >>If you push the blue light flux and/or residual heating high enough it >>can damage/darken the phosphor used to generate the yellow light. >> >>The surface brightness of recent LEDs is now about the same per unit >>area as the sun - which makes it a bad idea to look directly at them. >>Blue, violet or UV ones especially. > >I have out tape over many LEDs on equipment I have, can still see those >through the tape. >It avoids blinding.Blue LEDs are especially annoying, and people with cataracts sometimes can't see blue.
Reply by ●December 28, 20222022-12-28
On Wed, 28 Dec 2022 12:02:10 +0000, Clive Arthur <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:>On 28/12/2022 05:27, Jan Panteltje wrote: >> On a sunny day (Tue, 27 Dec 2022 15:47:22 +0000) it happened Martin Brown >> <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote in <tof42a$11vb$1@gioia.aioe.org>: >> >>> On 26/12/2022 17:16, Ricky wrote: >>>> I know it costs more to make a more efficient LED bulb for room >>>> lighting. Is there also a tradeoff between efficiency and operating >>>> life? I can't think of a mechanism, but I'm not so familiar with LED >>>> light bulb design. >>> >>> If you push the blue light flux and/or residual heating high enough it >>> can damage/darken the phosphor used to generate the yellow light. >>> >>> The surface brightness of recent LEDs is now about the same per unit >>> area as the sun - which makes it a bad idea to look directly at them. >>> Blue, violet or UV ones especially. >> >> I have out tape over many LEDs on equipment I have, can still see those >> through the tape. >> It avoids blinding. >> >A place I worked once produced an instrument with a five digit >seven-segment LED display. Because they were new and fashionable, blue >LEDs were used. > >Every single one I saw in the field had Kapton tape over the display, >which tamed it to a nice gentle dull orange.We used the Cree SiC blues when they were new. They needed 50 mA to be visible. As time went on and blues got more efficient, our customers started complaining. 1 mA is plenty now. We run test LEDs on a pc board at 100 uA now, so they don't blind you when probing.
Reply by ●December 28, 20222022-12-28
On a sunny day (Wed, 28 Dec 2022 07:57:31 -0800) it happened John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in <rppoqh94uqq2lps8p6nmt1fbbrusnlu0ej@4ax.com>:>On Wed, 28 Dec 2022 05:27:25 GMT, Jan Panteltje ><pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote: > >>On a sunny day (Tue, 27 Dec 2022 15:47:22 +0000) it happened Martin Brown >><'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote in <tof42a$11vb$1@gioia.aioe.org>: >> >>>On 26/12/2022 17:16, Ricky wrote: >>>> I know it costs more to make a more efficient LED bulb for room >>>> lighting. Is there also a tradeoff between efficiency and operating >>>> life? I can't think of a mechanism, but I'm not so familiar with LED >>>> light bulb design. >>> >>>If you push the blue light flux and/or residual heating high enough it >>>can damage/darken the phosphor used to generate the yellow light. >>> >>>The surface brightness of recent LEDs is now about the same per unit >>>area as the sun - which makes it a bad idea to look directly at them. >>>Blue, violet or UV ones especially. >> >>I have out tape over many LEDs on equipment I have, can still see those >>through the tape. >>It avoids blinding. > >Blue LEDs are especially annoying, and people with cataracts sometimes >can't see blue.Lasers are tricky too, I have some high powered ones, do not do this at home: http://panteltje.com/pub/1_1_2021_blue_laser_1.gif I have used it to chase away doves, those shit the windows full. No it is not bended due to gravitational effects :-) its the camera optics.
Reply by ●December 28, 20222022-12-28
On Wednesday, December 28, 2022 at 10:56:41 AM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:> On Wed, 28 Dec 2022 09:06:42 +0000, Martin Brown > <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote: > > >On 27/12/2022 16:39, John Larkin wrote: > >> On Tue, 27 Dec 2022 15:47:22 +0000, Martin Brown > >> <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote: > >> > >>> On 26/12/2022 17:16, Ricky wrote: > >>>> I know it costs more to make a more efficient LED bulb for room > >>>> lighting. Is there also a tradeoff between efficiency and operating > >>>> life? I can't think of a mechanism, but I'm not so familiar with LED > >>>> light bulb design. > >>> > >>> If you push the blue light flux and/or residual heating high enough it > >>> can damage/darken the phosphor used to generate the yellow light. > >>> > >>> The surface brightness of recent LEDs is now about the same per unit > >>> area as the sun - which makes it a bad idea to look directly at them. > >>> Blue, violet or UV ones especially. > >> > >> I have a 12-volt, roughly 1 cm square, array that looks like a welding > >> torch. It's the kind used in street lamps. > >> > >> Why don't they diffuse LED street lamps? They are annoying. > > > >The engineers designing them are control freaks and want the ray trace > >illumination pattern to go exactly where they choose to send it. I agree > >that a bit of diffusion would help take the edge of them. > > > >I find their very hard full cut off somewhat annoying when combined with > >black poles since it is impossible to pick out the road ahead. OTOH as > >an astronomer I appreciate the darker skies (especially since the ones > >round here switch off completely midnight through 5am). > > > >OTOH if you have ever been near a low pressure sodium street lamp on the > >bench - even though diffused they are hellishly bright close up! > > > >Nothing LED annoys me quite so much as red and green traffic indicators > >that flash at a speed that peripheral vision can time resolve. When near > >a pedestrian crossing I see a line of distinct images from them as my > >eye cadence sweeps the scene. Some makes are particularly bad for it. > LED stop lights tend to have weird patterns of obviously-series LEDs > that are out or flashing intermittently.The ones I hate blink rapidly on being activated. There are also headlights that flash very rapidly. Both are highly visible without flashing. Why do people think they need so much overkill? -- Rick C. -- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging -- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Reply by ●December 28, 20222022-12-28
On Wednesday, December 28, 2022 at 1:05:32 PM UTC-5, Jan Panteltje wrote:> On a sunny day (Wed, 28 Dec 2022 07:57:31 -0800) it happened John Larkin > <jla...@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in > <rppoqh94uqq2lps8p...@4ax.com>: > >On Wed, 28 Dec 2022 05:27:25 GMT, Jan Panteltje > ><pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > >>On a sunny day (Tue, 27 Dec 2022 15:47:22 +0000) it happened Martin Brown > >><'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote in <tof42a$11vb$1...@gioia.aioe.org>: > >> > >>>On 26/12/2022 17:16, Ricky wrote: > >>>> I know it costs more to make a more efficient LED bulb for room > >>>> lighting. Is there also a tradeoff between efficiency and operating > >>>> life? I can't think of a mechanism, but I'm not so familiar with LED > >>>> light bulb design. > >>> > >>>If you push the blue light flux and/or residual heating high enough it > >>>can damage/darken the phosphor used to generate the yellow light. > >>> > >>>The surface brightness of recent LEDs is now about the same per unit > >>>area as the sun - which makes it a bad idea to look directly at them. > >>>Blue, violet or UV ones especially. > >> > >>I have out tape over many LEDs on equipment I have, can still see those > >>through the tape. > >>It avoids blinding. > > > >Blue LEDs are especially annoying, and people with cataracts sometimes > >can't see blue. > Lasers are tricky too, I have some high powered ones, do not do this at home: > http://panteltje.com/pub/1_1_2021_blue_laser_1.gif > > I have used it to chase away doves, those shit the windows full. > > No it is not bended due to gravitational effects :-) its the camera optics.How do you get the doves to fly into it? What about aircraft? If your beam hits an aircraft, you will hear about it. Not in friendly terms either. -- Rick C. -+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging -+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
