On 06/28/2022 05:42 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:> In article <32a35bbc-b21d-4a2a-b1a1-aa82f01edfe8n@googlegroups.com>, > langwadt@fonz.dk says... >> Same here For what should be a few dollars I was asked for about $ 70 >>> per wheel. Just like the high price of the fobs that many cars are now >>> using. >> >> >> tens seconds with google find 4 sensors for $30 at walmart..... >> >> > > Then how much to get them installed ? > >$62.50 per wheel...
Ford F 150 Recall
Started by ●June 28, 2022
Reply by ●June 28, 20222022-06-28
Reply by ●June 29, 20222022-06-29
On 6/28/2022 10:23 PM, Ricky wrote:> On Tuesday, June 28, 2022 at 6:18:27 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote: >> On 6/28/2022 4:51 PM, Don Y wrote: >>> On 6/28/2022 1:37 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote: >>>> There's a problem with software on some of them that disables the >>>> low tire pressure warning light. >>>> >>>> <https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/ford-recalls-2900-ev-f-150-lightning-pickup-trucks-2022-06-27/> >>>> >>>> Cranky old white hairs like me wonder what's wrong with a walk >>>> around and a tire pressure gauge. >>> >>> Aren't the "per wheel" pressures displayed in real-time? Can't >>> the driver notice that a tire is low or, in our case, high (due >>> to increasing ambient temperatures)? >>> >> Having real-time information on when you've blown a tire can help you >> get the car off the road more quickly, and on some low-sitting vehicles >> can help prevent further damage to the car > > ??? I don't think the reading is that real time is it? When you've blown a tire, do you really need a dash gauge tell you? >I've never actually "blown" a tire as in a catastrophic failure where the pressure drops to almost nothing instantly that I recall, so "blowout" is the wrong term. I've hit nails, etc. and started pretty rapidly losing pressure, though, like 38...37...36...35 where you can count one-mississippi between each psi and yes in the late-model cars it's happened to me in it pops up the tire pressure display once it hits the low pressure-threshold and you can see it fall in real time, or close to it
Reply by ●June 29, 20222022-06-29
On 6/28/2022 5:58 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:> In article <t9fqvb$16j7b$1@dont-email.me>, wwm@wwmartin.net says... >> >> Hah, I wish my Tacoma had that "feature". Damn light is forever if you >> don't shell out a lot of money for new transmitters when the batteries >> die after about 10 years! >> >> >> > > Same here For what should be a few dollars I was asked for about $ 70 > per wheel. Just like the high price of the fobs that many cars are now > using.On late-model cars you can use two fobs to program infinite additional blank fobs. If you've lost a fob and only have one then things get real interesting. In theory in the US you only need one fob to make a second (vs Canada where you need at least two to do anything) however the process for programming a replacement yourself on Chevy cars at least becomes 10x more byzantine with only one, and the chances you brick your remaining fob and/or brick the car trying to do it yourself are IMO at least 50/50. I just called a locksmith the time I was in that situation.
Reply by ●June 29, 20222022-06-29
On 6/28/2022 6:05 PM, bitrex wrote:>> They, instead, detect "low pressure" by noticing the different rates of >> rotation of the tires (based on the ABS sensors). ("poor mans TPMS") >> >> These "self calibrate", in a sense. Move a low tire and it will see that >> the new location is rotating with an effective smaller diameter than the >> others and flag *it* as being low (regardless of where it was previously >> located) > > Those used to suck but I guess nowadays some manufacturers like Audi can get > their indirect sensors pretty accurate and they can somehow detect if all four > tires are low or high, alsoABS has to sense small changes in rotational speed to determine the onset of a skid. So, that sets the threshold for how "flat" a tire can be and be noticeable. Not sure if detecting all four in an identical -- but over/under-inflated state -- would be possible without another reference. E.g., if you had a road facing camera (like for lane monitoring), you might be able to deduce speed over ground and compare that to the "sensed" speed based on tire rotation (assuming the dashed lines on roads have some standard governing their spacing?)
Reply by ●June 29, 20222022-06-29
On Wednesday, 29 June 2022 at 07:46:47 UTC+2, Don Y wrote:> On 6/28/2022 6:05 PM, bitrex wrote: > > >> They, instead, detect "low pressure" by noticing the different rates of > >> rotation of the tires (based on the ABS sensors). ("poor mans TPMS") > >> > >> These "self calibrate", in a sense. Move a low tire and it will see that > >> the new location is rotating with an effective smaller diameter than the > >> others and flag *it* as being low (regardless of where it was previously > >> located) > > > > Those used to suck but I guess nowadays some manufacturers like Audi can get > > their indirect sensors pretty accurate and they can somehow detect if all four > > tires are low or high, also > ABS has to sense small changes in rotational speed to determine the onset of > a skid. So, that sets the threshold for how "flat" a tire can be and be > noticeable. > > Not sure if detecting all four in an identical -- but over/under-inflated > state -- would be possible without another reference. E.g., if you had a road > facing camera (like for lane monitoring), you might be able to deduce speed > over ground and compare that to the "sensed" speed based on tire rotation > (assuming the dashed lines on roads have some standard governing their > spacing?)--if you had a road facing camera (like for lane monitoring), you might be able to deduce speed over ground and compare that to the "sensed" speed based on tire rotation fake GPS senses car's speed much better
Reply by ●June 29, 20222022-06-29
On 6/28/2022 10:28 PM, Ricky wrote:> On Tuesday, June 28, 2022 at 9:05:30 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote: >> On 6/28/2022 8:38 PM, Don Y wrote: >>> On 6/28/2022 4:29 PM, bitrex wrote: >>>> On 6/28/2022 4:37 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote: >>>>> There's a problem with software on some of them that disables the >>>>> low tire pressure warning light. >>>>> <https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/ford-recalls-2900-ev-f-150-lightning-pickup-trucks-2022-06-27/> >>>>> >>>>> Cranky old white hairs like me wonder what's wrong with a walk >>>>> around and a tire pressure gauge. >>>> >>>> Most late-model cars will show you the tire pressure of each tire on >>>> the dash display, also. >>>> >>>> It's annoying when on occasion they rotate the tires but then forget >>>> to reprogram the computer so it knows what wheel which sensor is on, >>>> this requires a tool: >>> >>> There are some systems that DON'T place pressure sensors on the wheels. >> To clarify on Chevrolets at least the direct sensors integrated into the >> valve stems of the tires; I don't know if all brands do that with direct >> sensors though but it seems common. >> >> If just the module fails you can usually save the tire by pulling and >> de-flating the tire a bit then slipping the new module around the stem & >> hopefully can get away without re-balancing the wheel if you do this in >> your driveway >>> They, instead, detect "low pressure" by noticing the different rates of >>> rotation of the tires (based on the ABS sensors). ("poor mans TPMS") >>> >>> These "self calibrate", in a sense. Move a low tire and it will see that >>> the new location is rotating with an effective smaller diameter than the >>> others and flag *it* as being low (regardless of where it was previously >>> located) >> Those used to suck but I guess nowadays some manufacturers like Audi can >> get their indirect sensors pretty accurate and they can somehow detect >> if all four tires are low or high, also > > I've been told in the Teslas, the sensor is mounted so it passes close to a pickup that both inductively couples for transmitting a signal, but also to supply power to the sensor. That is why the tire pressure won't show up until you are something like a quarter mile down the road. It needs a few rotations to fire up the pressure sensor. >Seems like an ideal application for vibrational/piezoelectric energy scavenging e.g. <https://www.analog.com/en/products/ltc3588-1.html>
Reply by ●June 29, 20222022-06-29
On Tuesday, June 28, 2022 at 4:37:44 PM UTC-4, dean...@gmail.com wrote:> There's a problem with software on some of them that disables the low tire pressure warning light. > <https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/ford-recalls-2900-ev-f-150-lightning-pickup-trucks-2022-06-27/> > Cranky old white hairs like me wonder what's wrong with a walk around and a tire pressure gauge.So 3xn^2 + 5=42 gives you n=3.51... So it wasn't that. Somebody knew what they were doing and put the vehicle deep into loss of control without warning operator. Loss of control is a conditional parameter, operator doesn't know about it until the vehicle is maneuvered.
Reply by ●June 29, 20222022-06-29
On Tuesday, June 28, 2022 at 11:34:07 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:> On 6/28/2022 10:23 PM, Ricky wrote: > > On Tuesday, June 28, 2022 at 6:18:27 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote: > >> On 6/28/2022 4:51 PM, Don Y wrote: > >>> On 6/28/2022 1:37 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote: > >>>> There's a problem with software on some of them that disables the > >>>> low tire pressure warning light. > >>>> > >>>> <https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/ford-recalls-2900-ev-f-150-lightning-pickup-trucks-2022-06-27/> > >>>> > >>>> Cranky old white hairs like me wonder what's wrong with a walk > >>>> around and a tire pressure gauge. > >>> > >>> Aren't the "per wheel" pressures displayed in real-time? Can't > >>> the driver notice that a tire is low or, in our case, high (due > >>> to increasing ambient temperatures)? > >>> > >> Having real-time information on when you've blown a tire can help you > >> get the car off the road more quickly, and on some low-sitting vehicles > >> can help prevent further damage to the car > > > > ??? I don't think the reading is that real time is it? When you've blown a tire, do you really need a dash gauge tell you? > > > I've never actually "blown" a tire as in a catastrophic failure where > the pressure drops to almost nothing instantly that I recall, so > "blowout" is the wrong term. > > I've hit nails, etc. and started pretty rapidly losing pressure, though, > like 38...37...36...35 where you can count one-mississippi between each > psi and yes in the late-model cars it's happened to me in it pops up the > tire pressure display once it hits the low pressure-threshold and you > can see it fall in real time, or close to itI've never had that sort of failure, but even so, I don't think these things update in real time in that sense. A psi per second might take some seconds to show up. Some sensors have batteries, which means they are updating as little as possible. Mine are wheel powered. My tire leaks have either been so slow, the shop can't find the leak, or the blow NOW! Once it took a few seconds, very few. I felt the car handling oddly as I took an exit and it was flat by the time I got to the bottom and was a wild ride going down! It's one thing to get a flat on the road, on a sharp curve it's something else! -- Rick C. -+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging -+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Reply by ●June 29, 20222022-06-29
On Wednesday, June 29, 2022 at 10:10:18 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:> On Tuesday, June 28, 2022 at 11:34:07 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote: > > On 6/28/2022 10:23 PM, Ricky wrote: > > > On Tuesday, June 28, 2022 at 6:18:27 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote: > > >> On 6/28/2022 4:51 PM, Don Y wrote: > > >>> On 6/28/2022 1:37 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote: > > >>>> There's a problem with software on some of them that disables the > > >>>> low tire pressure warning light. > > >>>> > > >>>> <https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/ford-recalls-2900-ev-f-150-lightning-pickup-trucks-2022-06-27/> > > >>>> > > >>>> Cranky old white hairs like me wonder what's wrong with a walk > > >>>> around and a tire pressure gauge. > > >>> > > >>> Aren't the "per wheel" pressures displayed in real-time? Can't > > >>> the driver notice that a tire is low or, in our case, high (due > > >>> to increasing ambient temperatures)? > > >>> > > >> Having real-time information on when you've blown a tire can help you > > >> get the car off the road more quickly, and on some low-sitting vehicles > > >> can help prevent further damage to the car > > > > > > ??? I don't think the reading is that real time is it? When you've blown a tire, do you really need a dash gauge tell you? > > > > > I've never actually "blown" a tire as in a catastrophic failure where > > the pressure drops to almost nothing instantly that I recall, so > > "blowout" is the wrong term. > > > > I've hit nails, etc. and started pretty rapidly losing pressure, though, > > like 38...37...36...35 where you can count one-mississippi between each > > psi and yes in the late-model cars it's happened to me in it pops up the > > tire pressure display once it hits the low pressure-threshold and you > > can see it fall in real time, or close to it > I've never had that sort of failure, but even so, I don't think these things update in real time in that sense. A psi per second might take some seconds to show up. Some sensors have batteries, which means they are updating as little as possible. Mine are wheel powered. > > My tire leaks have either been so slow, the shop can't find the leak, or the blow NOW! Once it took a few seconds, very few. I felt the car handling oddly as I took an exit and it was flat by the time I got to the bottom and was a wild ride going down! It's one thing to get a flat on the road, on a sharp curve it's something else!I've blown tires twice (or more) from hitting high concrete curb. First time, i drag it a few hundred feet to a nearby tire store. Second time, i drove around a mile with a hole on the side wall, no air, on run-flat tire. Tire pressure monitoring won't make any difference. I only drive on run-flat tires now.
Reply by ●June 29, 20222022-06-29
On 6/29/2022 1:10 PM, Ricky wrote:> On Tuesday, June 28, 2022 at 11:34:07 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote: >> On 6/28/2022 10:23 PM, Ricky wrote: >>> On Tuesday, June 28, 2022 at 6:18:27 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote: >>>> On 6/28/2022 4:51 PM, Don Y wrote: >>>>> On 6/28/2022 1:37 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote: >>>>>> There's a problem with software on some of them that disables the >>>>>> low tire pressure warning light. >>>>>> >>>>>> <https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/ford-recalls-2900-ev-f-150-lightning-pickup-trucks-2022-06-27/> >>>>>> >>>>>> Cranky old white hairs like me wonder what's wrong with a walk >>>>>> around and a tire pressure gauge. >>>>> >>>>> Aren't the "per wheel" pressures displayed in real-time? Can't >>>>> the driver notice that a tire is low or, in our case, high (due >>>>> to increasing ambient temperatures)? >>>>> >>>> Having real-time information on when you've blown a tire can help you >>>> get the car off the road more quickly, and on some low-sitting vehicles >>>> can help prevent further damage to the car >>> >>> ??? I don't think the reading is that real time is it? When you've blown a tire, do you really need a dash gauge tell you? >>> >> I've never actually "blown" a tire as in a catastrophic failure where >> the pressure drops to almost nothing instantly that I recall, so >> "blowout" is the wrong term. >> >> I've hit nails, etc. and started pretty rapidly losing pressure, though, >> like 38...37...36...35 where you can count one-mississippi between each >> psi and yes in the late-model cars it's happened to me in it pops up the >> tire pressure display once it hits the low pressure-threshold and you >> can see it fall in real time, or close to it > > I've never had that sort of failure, but even so, I don't think these things update in real time in that sense. A psi per second might take some seconds to show up. Some sensors have batteries, which means they are updating as little as possible. Mine are wheel powered.This says federal requirements are that it has to send an update at least every 20 min: <https://www.motor.com/magazine-summary/tpms-sensors-hit-retirement-age/> That was 10 years ago though. I think it's largely implementation-dependent. It doesn't seem inconceivable that the reporting interval isn't fixed, that a sensor could log the pressure every 100mS or something and if dP/dt isn't too high it only broadcasts every minute (more power hungry than just logging), but it begins reporting more often proportional to dP/dt. I don't know how much of this is the car's responsibility and how much the sensor does but the "sensor" ICs are highly configurable uPs in their own right, the datasheet of this one as an example is 176 pages long: <https://www.farnell.com/datasheets/2618548.pdf>> My tire leaks have either been so slow, the shop can't find the leak, or the blow NOW! Once it took a few seconds, very few. I felt the car handling oddly as I took an exit and it was flat by the time I got to the bottom and was a wild ride going down! It's one thing to get a flat on the road, on a sharp curve it's something else! >I've definitely had the presume monitor on my old Gen 1 Volt alert me to a tire deflating from a puncture so that I could pull off before it got to the flappa-flappa point, no wild ride. It naturally happened at about 11 pm on a pouring rainy night about the middle of nowhere in northeastern CT. But the emergency goop-injector and air compressor aworked surprisingly well and I was rolling again in about 15 min. If it had been a bust severe enough to deflate the tire in just a couple seconds like a side wall blowout, I doubt gooping it would've helped much.
