Three Jeeps <jjhudak4@gmail.com> wrote:> jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >> Edward Hernandez <dtga...@gmail.com> wrote:>>> <trolling>>> You idiots have mostly ruined usenet with your endless hen-clucking.This time... Not just this group, but all of USENET!>> Your are either bots, or have astounding boredom tolerance. Of course >> you can't design electronics; your personalities are all wrong.> +1, and I'd add the need for constant attention seeking. Severe mental > disorder.It's always something or another. There is a distinct possibility "Edward Hernandez" would've made it into this group (coming from the electronics repair group where it was jilted) even if not for me, similar to how "Bertrand Sindri" appeared around the same timeframe (also coming from the electronics repair group) for no apparent reason. I have obviously nothing to do with that troll now flagging what it sees as off-topic (while copying my ID to do so). Some regulars here like Bozo and Ricksy have encouraged it, and it's gotten worse.
power supply 1-wire remote sense
Started by ●June 17, 2022
Reply by ●June 19, 20222022-06-19
Reply by ●June 19, 20222022-06-19
In message-id <t6nt3e$7bp$3@dont-email.me> (http://al.howardknight.net/?ID=165357273000) posted Thu, 26 May 2022 12:50:54 -0000 (UTC) Troll Doe stated:> Always Wrong, the utterly foulmouthed group idiot, adding absolutely > NOTHING but insults to this thread, as usual...Yet, since Wed, 5 Jan 2022 04:10:38 -0000 (UTC) Troll Doe's post ratio to USENET (**) has been 61.8% of its posts contributing "nothing except insults" to USENET. ** Since Wed, 5 Jan 2022 04:10:38 -0000 (UTC) Troll Doe has posted at least 1954 articles to USENET. Of which 173 have been pure insults and 1035 have been Troll Doe "troll format" postings. The John Dope troll stated the following in message-id <sdhn7c$pkp$4@dont-email.me>:> The troll doesn't even know how to format a USENET post...And the John Dope troll stated the following in message-id <sg3kr7$qt5$1@dont-email.me>:> The reason Bozo cannot figure out how to get Google to keep from > breaking its lines in inappropriate places is because Bozo is > CLUELESS...And yet, the clueless John Dope troll has continued to post incorrectly formatted USENET articles that are devoid of content (latest example on Sun, 19 Jun 2022 16:57:02 -0000 (UTC) in message-id <t8nkgt$5j9$5@dont-email.me>). NOBODY likes the John Doe troll's contentless spam. This posting is a public service announcement for any google groups readers who happen by to point out that John Doe does not even follow the rules it uses to troll other posters. 6gGXGD9dZRVQ
Reply by ●June 19, 20222022-06-19
On Saturday, June 18, 2022 at 3:27:11 AM UTC-4, whit3rd wrote:> On Friday, June 17, 2022 at 3:24:13 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote: > > On Fri, 17 Jun 2022 15:05:08 -0700, John Robertson <sp...@flippers.com> > > wrote: > > >On 2022/06/17 2:39 p.m., John Larkin wrote: > > >> On Fri, 17 Jun 2022 13:01:28 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com> > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >>> On Friday, June 17, 2022 at 12:40:06 PM UTC-7, John Walliker wrote: > > >>>> On Friday, 17 June 2022 at 17:45:41 UTC+1, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: > > >>>>> This ought to work and has some real virtues. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/s3swzhh7b0kd8f9/1-wire_sense.jpg?raw=1 > > >>>>> > > >>>> That looks just like a three-wire resistance thermometer connection. > > >>> > > >>> Yep, and the downside is, any contact resistance in connectors or mismatch in current-delivery > > >>> wire resistance does it in. Point-of-load regulation is cheaper (wire has real cost) and > > >>> has better latency and bandwidth than digitizing-at-the-source. Is this a motor control, > > >>> or heater, or some other milliseconds-don't-matter system? > > >> > > >> It's a programmable DC power supply, and the customer has requested > > >> remote sense. > > >What was happening was the ground connections to the game boards > > >deteriorated at the same rate as the +DC ones and this confused the > > >sense(s) so they would allow more current to flow - and toasted the card > > >edge connectors and the plugs. > > > > > >We had a lot of problems with ground/common connections on games > > >designed in the 70s and 80s. > > Yes, rs can be connected wrong and make a power supply go nuts. The > > dual ADC allows us to compare the output and the rs feedback and see > > if they make sense. > I'd prefer fewer ADCs (thinking of these as feedback elements into an op amp-style > regulator) because of their delays. Ideally, just program a reference, and > apply gain to that, with suitable filter caps on the output. MHz power currents > come from the capacitors, kHz power currents come from the amplifier, and > a single ADC can alternate reading the reference and the output; using three > ADCs seems overcomplex. If you just integrate DC errors (P-I-D style) > using the digital stuff, the delay isn't an issue. > > As for 'make sense' decisions: overcurrent or overvoltage would usually > not wait for a smart digital chip's decision, but do something appropriate > with a protective relay, circuit breaker, fuse... Undervoltage though, > that's where a sense wire solution shines (take a millisecond, but get > the value RIGHT before a guy with a meter sees the problem).What? A relay is too fast to wait for a digital chip to control it??? A RELAY? -- Rick C. - Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging - Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Reply by ●June 19, 20222022-06-19
On Sunday, June 19, 2022 at 11:26:59 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:> On Saturday, June 18, 2022 at 3:27:11 AM UTC-4, whit3rd wrote:> > As for 'make sense' decisions: overcurrent or overvoltage would usually > > not wait for a smart digital chip's decision, but do something appropriate > > with a protective relay, circuit breaker, fuse... Undervoltage though, > > that's where a sense wire solution shines (take a millisecond, but get > > the value RIGHT before a guy with a meter sees the problem).> What? A relay is too fast to wait for a digital chip to control it??? A RELAY?The input is a switchmode supply, intrinsically power limited by its nature, and only responding to logic input after finishing a current pulse. It's not lightning protection here, just craziness of the switching logic to be considered. I'd not trust the switching logic more than a relay. Latency in sampling, and decision logic, and switch period, may not be negligible.
Reply by ●June 19, 20222022-06-19
On Sunday, 19 June 2022 at 21:57:45 UTC+1, whit3rd wrote:> On Sunday, June 19, 2022 at 11:26:59 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote: > > On Saturday, June 18, 2022 at 3:27:11 AM UTC-4, whit3rd wrote: > > > > As for 'make sense' decisions: overcurrent or overvoltage would usually > > > not wait for a smart digital chip's decision, but do something appropriate > > > with a protective relay, circuit breaker, fuse... Undervoltage though, > > > that's where a sense wire solution shines (take a millisecond, but get > > > the value RIGHT before a guy with a meter sees the problem). > > > What? A relay is too fast to wait for a digital chip to control it??? A RELAY? > The input is a switchmode supply, intrinsically power limited by its > nature, and only responding to logic input after finishing a current pulse. It's > not lightning protection here, just craziness of the switching logic to be considered. > > I'd not trust the switching logic more than a relay. Latency in sampling, > and decision logic, and switch period, may not be negligible.A much bigger concern is that none of the usual distributors seem to have ADUM7703s in stock. It looks like a nice device - I could use a few if only I could buy them! John
Reply by ●June 19, 20222022-06-19
On Sun, 19 Jun 2022 15:11:36 -0700 (PDT), John Walliker <jrwalliker@gmail.com> wrote:>On Sunday, 19 June 2022 at 21:57:45 UTC+1, whit3rd wrote: >> On Sunday, June 19, 2022 at 11:26:59 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote: >> > On Saturday, June 18, 2022 at 3:27:11 AM UTC-4, whit3rd wrote: >> >> > > As for 'make sense' decisions: overcurrent or overvoltage would usually >> > > not wait for a smart digital chip's decision, but do something appropriate >> > > with a protective relay, circuit breaker, fuse... Undervoltage though, >> > > that's where a sense wire solution shines (take a millisecond, but get >> > > the value RIGHT before a guy with a meter sees the problem). >> >> > What? A relay is too fast to wait for a digital chip to control it??? A RELAY? >> The input is a switchmode supply, intrinsically power limited by its >> nature, and only responding to logic input after finishing a current pulse. It's >> not lightning protection here, just craziness of the switching logic to be considered. >> >> I'd not trust the switching logic more than a relay. Latency in sampling, >> and decision logic, and switch period, may not be negligible. > >A much bigger concern is that none of the usual distributors seem >to have ADUM7703s in stock. It looks like a nice device - I could use a few if >only I could buy them! >JohnIt's really cool. If you clock it at 20 MHz, you can process the data stream to get 15 bits at 625 ks/s or 27 bits at 39 ks/s. The fpga sinc3 filter looks insane to me, but it works. Mouser is expecting some in 2023! -- Anybody can count to one. - Robert Widlar
Reply by ●June 20, 20222022-06-20
On Sun, 19 Jun 2022 16:27:43 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:>On Sun, 19 Jun 2022 15:11:36 -0700 (PDT), John Walliker ><jrwalliker@gmail.com> wrote: > >>On Sunday, 19 June 2022 at 21:57:45 UTC+1, whit3rd wrote: >>> On Sunday, June 19, 2022 at 11:26:59 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote: >>> > On Saturday, June 18, 2022 at 3:27:11 AM UTC-4, whit3rd wrote: >>> >>> > > As for 'make sense' decisions: overcurrent or overvoltage would usually >>> > > not wait for a smart digital chip's decision, but do something appropriate >>> > > with a protective relay, circuit breaker, fuse... Undervoltage though, >>> > > that's where a sense wire solution shines (take a millisecond, but get >>> > > the value RIGHT before a guy with a meter sees the problem). >>> >>> > What? A relay is too fast to wait for a digital chip to control it??? A RELAY? >>> The input is a switchmode supply, intrinsically power limited by its >>> nature, and only responding to logic input after finishing a current pulse. It's >>> not lightning protection here, just craziness of the switching logic to be considered. >>> >>> I'd not trust the switching logic more than a relay. Latency in sampling, >>> and decision logic, and switch period, may not be negligible. >> >>A much bigger concern is that none of the usual distributors seem >>to have ADUM7703s in stock. It looks like a nice device - I could use a few if >>only I could buy them! >>John > >It's really cool. If you clock it at 20 MHz, you can process the data >stream to get 15 bits at 625 ks/s or 27 bits at 39 ks/s. > >The fpga sinc3 filter looks insane to me, but it works. > >Mouser is expecting some in 2023!I guess I'll use diffamps into a grounded ADC instead of truly isolated ADCs. The ADUM is great for hanging across a current shunt, but there are not-quite-isolated ways to digitize currents too. Looks like we can still buy opamps and resistors! Not much else. -- Anybody can count to one. - Robert Widlar
Reply by ●June 20, 20222022-06-20
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:> jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >> John Walliker wrote: >>> whit3rd wrote: >>>> Ricky wrote: >>>>> whit3rd wrote: >>>> >>>>>> As for 'make sense' decisions: overcurrent or overvoltage would >>>>>> usually not wait for a smart digital chip's decision, but do >>>>>> something appropriate with a protective relay, circuit breaker, >>>>>> fuse... Undervoltage though, that's where a sense wire solution >>>>>> shines (take a millisecond, but get the value RIGHT before a guy >>>>>> with a meter sees the problem). >>>> >>>>> What? A relay is too fast to wait for a digital chip to control >>>>> it??? A RELAY?>>>> The input is a switchmode supply, intrinsically power limited by its >>>> nature, and only responding to logic input after finishing a current >>>> pulse. It's not lightning protection here, just craziness of the >>>> switching logic to be considered. >>>> >>>> I'd not trust the switching logic more than a relay. Latency in >>>> sampling, and decision logic, and switch period, may not be >>>> negligible. >>> >>>A much bigger concern is that none of the usual distributors seem to >>>have ADUM7703s in stock. It looks like a nice device - I could use a >>>few if only I could buy them!>>It's really cool. If you clock it at 20 MHz, you can process the data >>stream to get 15 bits at 625 ks/s or 27 bits at 39 ks/s. >> >>The fpga sinc3 filter looks insane to me, but it works. >> >>Mouser is expecting some in 2023! > > I guess I'll use diffamps into a grounded ADC instead of truly isolated > ADCs. The ADUM is great for hanging across a current shunt, but there > are not-quite-isolated ways to digitize currents too. > > Looks like we can still buy opamps and resistors! Not much else.It might get worse still. Prolonging the Russian-Ukrainian conflict will curb Russian and Ukrainian exports of noble gasses like neon, krypton, and xenon, all key ingredients in the manufacturing of semiconductor chips. If I read it correctly, chips manufactured in China might be less affected than others.
Reply by ●June 20, 20222022-06-20
On Monday, June 20, 2022 at 7:19:44 AM UTC+2, John Doe wrote:> jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: > > > jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: > >> John Walliker wrote: > >>> whit3rd wrote: > >>>> Ricky wrote: > >>>>> whit3rd wrote:<snip>> It might get worse still. Prolonging the Russian-Ukrainian conflict will > curb Russian and Ukrainian exports of noble gasses like neon, krypton, and > xenon, all key ingredients in the manufacturing of semiconductor chips. If > I read it correctly, chips manufactured in China might be less affected > than others.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noble_gas "Neon, argon, krypton, and xenon are obtained from air in an air separation unit using the methods of liquefaction of gases and fractional distillation." Everybody liquifies air and sells liquid nitrogen. Elaborating the the plant a bit to pull out the noble gases isn't rocket science. Russia and the Ukraine may have tooled up for cheap mass production, but replacing them isn't going to be a big deal. It would probably just mean taking old kit out of mothball storage. -- Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply by ●June 20, 20222022-06-20
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:> On Sun, 19 Jun 2022 16:27:43 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com > wrote: > >> On Sun, 19 Jun 2022 15:11:36 -0700 (PDT), John Walliker >> <jrwalliker@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> On Sunday, 19 June 2022 at 21:57:45 UTC+1, whit3rd wrote: >>>> On Sunday, June 19, 2022 at 11:26:59 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote: >>>>> On Saturday, June 18, 2022 at 3:27:11 AM UTC-4, whit3rd wrote: >>>> >>>>>> As for 'make sense' decisions: overcurrent or overvoltage would usually >>>>>> not wait for a smart digital chip's decision, but do something appropriate >>>>>> with a protective relay, circuit breaker, fuse... Undervoltage though, >>>>>> that's where a sense wire solution shines (take a millisecond, but get >>>>>> the value RIGHT before a guy with a meter sees the problem). >>>> >>>>> What? A relay is too fast to wait for a digital chip to control it??? A RELAY? >>>> The input is a switchmode supply, intrinsically power limited by its >>>> nature, and only responding to logic input after finishing a current pulse. It's >>>> not lightning protection here, just craziness of the switching logic to be considered. >>>> >>>> I'd not trust the switching logic more than a relay. Latency in sampling, >>>> and decision logic, and switch period, may not be negligible. >>> >>> A much bigger concern is that none of the usual distributors seem >>> to have ADUM7703s in stock. It looks like a nice device - I could use a few if >>> only I could buy them! >>> John >> >> It's really cool. If you clock it at 20 MHz, you can process the data >> stream to get 15 bits at 625 ks/s or 27 bits at 39 ks/s. >> >> The fpga sinc3 filter looks insane to me, but it works. >> >> Mouser is expecting some in 2023! > > I guess I'll use diffamps into a grounded ADC instead of truly > isolated ADCs. The ADUM is great for hanging across a current shunt, > but there are not-quite-isolated ways to digitize currents too.That also avoids problems with multiple grounds. Connecting a BNC cable to something at the load end could trash the 1-wire sense measurement.> Looks like we can still buy opamps and resistors! Not much else.We're exploring new micros, because the new products are all we can get. We're also having to make DFN-to-SOIC turret-style adapter boards because some asshole bought up the world's supply of ADA4899s in the sane packages, and is selling them for $15ish instead of $5ish. Using the adapter saves spinning the board, and allows us to go back to normal whenever that blessed state arrives. (Hopefully it isn't like the starship waiting for the lemon-scented paper napkins in The Restaurant at the End of the Universe.) Cheers Phil Hobbs -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 http://electrooptical.net http://hobbs-eo.com
