https://www.dropbox.com/sh/tgu2ozch3rbgglk/AABI3U3_iexb69UHWoRIzm-Ma?dl=0 Interesting. The high junction drops might be the SiGe, or just the tiny junction size. It would make a decent 0.3 pF 13 volt diode. I might make an oscillator and evaluate phase noise/jitter. An x-ray would be cool. We need a high-res xray machine. -- If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts, but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties. Francis Bacon
some BFP640 SiGe measurements
Started by ●April 29, 2022
Reply by ●April 29, 20222022-04-29
On Fri, 29 Apr 2022 10:40:05 -0700, John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:> >https://www.dropbox.com/sh/tgu2ozch3rbgglk/AABI3U3_iexb69UHWoRIzm-Ma?dl=0 > >Interesting. The high junction drops might be the SiGe, or just the >tiny junction size. >The 1 ma jd's are close to those of a BFT25. -- If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts, but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties. Francis Bacon
Reply by ●April 29, 20222022-04-29
On 4/29/2022 20:40, John Larkin wrote:> > https://www.dropbox.com/sh/tgu2ozch3rbgglk/AABI3U3_iexb69UHWoRIzm-Ma?dl=0 > > Interesting. The high junction drops might be the SiGe, or just the > tiny junction size. > > It would make a decent 0.3 pF 13 volt diode. > > I might make an oscillator and evaluate phase noise/jitter. > > An x-ray would be cool. We need a high-res xray machine. > >Hah! Thanks for mentioning the diode thing, I may eventually build a pulse generator using it, needed something like that for a switch. (Don't hold your breath, it's been decades so far :).
Reply by ●April 29, 20222022-04-29
On Fri, 29 Apr 2022 21:43:30 +0300, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> wrote:>On 4/29/2022 20:40, John Larkin wrote: >> >> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/tgu2ozch3rbgglk/AABI3U3_iexb69UHWoRIzm-Ma?dl=0 >> >> Interesting. The high junction drops might be the SiGe, or just the >> tiny junction size. >> >> It would make a decent 0.3 pF 13 volt diode. >> >> I might make an oscillator and evaluate phase noise/jitter. >> >> An x-ray would be cool. We need a high-res xray machine. >> >> > >Hah! Thanks for mentioning the diode thing, I may eventually build >a pulse generator using it, needed something like that for a switch. >(Don't hold your breath, it's been decades so far :).I want to do a benchtop pulse generator, but it would be a lot of work. It would have to be fast (at least 1 GHz rate, 100 ps edges, 5 volts at least) to be profitable; the slower stuff is cheap. A fast fpga SERDES could generate many channels, patterns even, but the outputs would be clock quantized. I have some data on the MiniCircuits SAV series phemts, as switches, if that's interesting. S-params are not useful in switching applications. -- If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts, but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties. Francis Bacon
Reply by ●April 29, 20222022-04-29
Am 29.04.22 um 21:20 schrieb John Larkin:> On Fri, 29 Apr 2022 21:43:30 +0300, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> > wrote: > >> On 4/29/2022 20:40, John Larkin wrote: >>> >>> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/tgu2ozch3rbgglk/AABI3U3_iexb69UHWoRIzm-Ma?dl=0 >>> >>> Interesting. The high junction drops might be the SiGe, or just the >>> tiny junction size. >>> >>> It would make a decent 0.3 pF 13 volt diode. >>> >>> I might make an oscillator and evaluate phase noise/jitter. >>> >>> An x-ray would be cool. We need a high-res xray machine. >>>A customer of mine used an ultrasonics microscope, long time ago. The Infineon spice model has the effect of bond wires etc, separated from the bare chip. Oh, and 1/f also. What unusual luxury! And under which conditions the spice model delivers correct s-parameters! Someone must have done his homework in Munich.>> Hah! Thanks for mentioning the diode thing, I may eventually build >> a pulse generator using it, needed something like that for a switch. >> (Don't hold your breath, it's been decades so far :). > > I want to do a benchtop pulse generator, but it would be a lot of > work. It would have to be fast (at least 1 GHz rate, 100 ps edges, 5 > volts at least) to be profitable; the slower stuff is cheap. > > A fast fpga SERDES could generate many channels, patterns even, but > the outputs would be clock quantized. > > I have some data on the MiniCircuits SAV series phemts, as switches, > if that's interesting. S-params are not useful in switching > applications.Of course, they are. Some network analyzers can do the FFT voodoo per push botton to convert between time & frequency domain. Gerhard *************************************************************** * Infineon Technologies AG GUMMEL-POON Transistor MODEL IN SPICE 2G6 SYNTAX * BFP640 Model in SOT343 Incuding 1/f Noise Model and Temperature Model June 2002 *************************************************************** * For DC-simulations, the parameter set is valid in the temperature range from T = -25 °C upto T = 125 °C. * The AC-behaviour is correctly simulated only at T = 25 °C. In order to simulate S-Parameters at T = -25 °C resp. * T = 125 °C, the parameter ITF of the main transistor must be modified by the following equation: * * ITF(T) = ITF(To) * ( 1 - 6.5e-3 * (T-To) + 1.0e-5 * (T-To)^2 ) * To = 25 °C * * This means: * ------------------------------- * ITF(-25 °C) = 1.35 * ITF(25 °C) * ITF(125 °C) = 0.45 * ITF(25 °C) * * If in Parameter Set available set: * TITF1 = -6.5e-3 * TITF2 = 1.0e-5 ************************************************************** * BFP640 * *.OPTION TNOM = 25, GMIN = 1.0E-12 * * BFP640 C B E .SUBCKT BFP640 1 2 3 X1 22 11 33 2 1 3 SOT343_BFP640 X2 11 22 33 CHIP_BFP640 .ENDS BFP640 ************************************************************** * Chip parasitics BFP640 * * CHIP_BFP640 C B E .SUBCKT CHIP_BFP640 1 2 3 Q1 10 20 30 4 M_BFP640 CBEC 20 30 9.840E-14 CBCC 20 10 5.593E-14 LBC 2 20 1.200E-10 LCC 1 10 1.200E-10 LEC 3 30 2.000E-11 CES 3 33 1.800E-13 CBS 2 22 7.900E-14 CCS 1 11 7.500E-14 RBS 4 22 1.200E+03 RCS 4 11 1.200E+03 RES 4 33 3.000E+02 .ENDS CHIP_BFP640 ************************************************************** * Package Model SOT343 for BFP640 * * SOT343_BFP640 Bi Ci Ei Bo Co Eo .SUBCKT SOT343_BFP640 1 2 3 10 20 30 LBB 1 10 0.6962E-9 LCB 2 20 0.6824E-9 LEB 3 30 0.2306E-9 CCEO 20 30 131.2E-15 CBEO 30 10 102.5E-15 CCEI 2 3 112.6E-15 CBEI 3 1 180.4E-15 .ENDS SOT343_BFP640 ************************************************************** * BJT Model SOT343 for BFP640 * .MODEL M_BFP640 NPN( + IS = 2.200E-16 + NF = 1.025E+00 + BF = 4.500E+02 + NE = 2.000E+00 + ISE = 2.100E-14 + NR = 1.000E+00 + BR = 5.500E+01 + NC = 1.800E+00 + ISC = 4.000E-13 + VAF = 1.000E+03 + VAR = 2.000E+00 + IKF = 1.500E-01 + IKR = 3.800E-03 + RB = 3.129E+00 + RBM = 2.707E+00 + IRB = 1.522E-03 + RE = 6.000E-01 + RC = 3.061E+00 + XTB =-1.420E+00 + EG = 1.078E+00 + XTI = 3.000E+00 + TF = 1.800E-12 + VTF = 1.500E+00 + XTF = 1.000E+01 + ITF = 4.000E-01 + CJE = 2.276E-13 + VJE = 8.000E-01 + MJE = 3.000E-01 + CJC = 6.743E-14 + VJC = 6.000E-01 + MJC = 5.000E-01 + XCJC = 1.000E+00 + CJS = 9.335E-14 + VJS = 6.000E-01 + MJS = 2.700E-01 + FC = 8.000E-01 + TR = 2.000E-10 + PTF = 0.000E+00 + AF = 2.000E+00 + KF = 7.291E-11 + TNOM = 25)
Reply by ●April 29, 20222022-04-29
John Larkin wrote:> > https://www.dropbox.com/sh/tgu2ozch3rbgglk/AABI3U3_iexb69UHWoRIzm-Ma?dl=0 > > Interesting. The high junction drops might be the SiGe, or just the > tiny junction size. > > It would make a decent 0.3 pF 13 volt diode. > > I might make an oscillator and evaluate phase noise/jitter. > > An x-ray would be cool. We need a high-res xray machine.The Early voltage is right around 250V, and the beta is about 250 as well. It's pretty flat with collector current--it doesn't tank at low I_C the way old time RF transistors often did. Too-slow measurements often show the collector curves sloping the wrong way due to thermal effects, so that the Early voltage might even seem to have the wrong sign. If you do the measurement fast enough, though, it comes in at V_A ~ 250V. That's incredible for a 40+ GHz transistor that costs 20 cents in reels. Cheers Phil Hobbs -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 http://electrooptical.net http://hobbs-eo.com
Reply by ●April 30, 20222022-04-30
On a sunny day (Fri, 29 Apr 2022 10:40:05 -0700) it happened John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in <dc8o6hpc2pges9sqe5bu71at2g531pg17o@4ax.com>:> >https://www.dropbox.com/sh/tgu2ozch3rbgglk/AABI3U3_iexb69UHWoRIzm-Ma?dl=0 > >Interesting. The high junction drops might be the SiGe, or just the >tiny junction size. > >It would make a decent 0.3 pF 13 volt diode. > >I might make an oscillator and evaluate phase noise/jitter. > >An x-ray would be cool. We need a high-res xray machine.Does not seem so much different from other RF NPN in satellite LNBs? Millions of those around. ?
Reply by ●April 30, 20222022-04-30
On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 06:36:03 GMT, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:>On a sunny day (Fri, 29 Apr 2022 10:40:05 -0700) it happened John Larkin ><jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in ><dc8o6hpc2pges9sqe5bu71at2g531pg17o@4ax.com>: > >> >>https://www.dropbox.com/sh/tgu2ozch3rbgglk/AABI3U3_iexb69UHWoRIzm-Ma?dl=0 >> >>Interesting. The high junction drops might be the SiGe, or just the >>tiny junction size. >> >>It would make a decent 0.3 pF 13 volt diode. >> >>I might make an oscillator and evaluate phase noise/jitter. >> >>An x-ray would be cool. We need a high-res xray machine. > >Does not seem so much different from other RF NPN in satellite LNBs? >Millions of those around. >?The SiGe's are just 2x or 3x faster than regular rf bipolars. I just figured that I should get some and play with them. Maybe explore saturation and switching, and build an oscillator maybe. Can't design with tubes forever. -- Anybody can count to one. - Robert Widlar
Reply by ●April 30, 20222022-04-30
On a sunny day (Sat, 30 Apr 2022 07:33:46 -0700) it happened jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in <qvhq6htpluaun4ka3v0u07p9tmanusip7p@4ax.com>:>On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 06:36:03 GMT, Jan Panteltje ><pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote: > >>On a sunny day (Fri, 29 Apr 2022 10:40:05 -0700) it happened John Larkin >><jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in >><dc8o6hpc2pges9sqe5bu71at2g531pg17o@4ax.com>: >> >>> >>>https://www.dropbox.com/sh/tgu2ozch3rbgglk/AABI3U3_iexb69UHWoRIzm-Ma?dl=0 >>> >>>Interesting. The high junction drops might be the SiGe, or just the >>>tiny junction size. >>> >>>It would make a decent 0.3 pF 13 volt diode. >>> >>>I might make an oscillator and evaluate phase noise/jitter. >>> >>>An x-ray would be cool. We need a high-res xray machine. >> >>Does not seem so much different from other RF NPN in satellite LNBs? >>Millions of those around. >>? > >The SiGe's are just 2x or 3x faster than regular rf bipolars. > >I just figured that I should get some and play with them. Maybe >explore saturation and switching, and build an oscillator maybe. Can't >design with tubes forever.I was looking at the noise level, very important for LNBs.. Indeed would be fun to to test a few, been working in the garden for hours, did put a peach seed in the ground in a sunny place, wonder if it will grow into a tree.
Reply by ●April 30, 20222022-04-30
On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 15:02:22 GMT, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:>On a sunny day (Sat, 30 Apr 2022 07:33:46 -0700) it happened >jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in ><qvhq6htpluaun4ka3v0u07p9tmanusip7p@4ax.com>: > >>On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 06:36:03 GMT, Jan Panteltje >><pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >>>On a sunny day (Fri, 29 Apr 2022 10:40:05 -0700) it happened John Larkin >>><jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in >>><dc8o6hpc2pges9sqe5bu71at2g531pg17o@4ax.com>: >>> >>>> >>>>https://www.dropbox.com/sh/tgu2ozch3rbgglk/AABI3U3_iexb69UHWoRIzm-Ma?dl=0 >>>> >>>>Interesting. The high junction drops might be the SiGe, or just the >>>>tiny junction size. >>>> >>>>It would make a decent 0.3 pF 13 volt diode. >>>> >>>>I might make an oscillator and evaluate phase noise/jitter. >>>> >>>>An x-ray would be cool. We need a high-res xray machine. >>> >>>Does not seem so much different from other RF NPN in satellite LNBs? >>>Millions of those around. >>>? >> >>The SiGe's are just 2x or 3x faster than regular rf bipolars. >> >>I just figured that I should get some and play with them. Maybe >>explore saturation and switching, and build an oscillator maybe. Can't >>design with tubes forever. > >I was looking at the noise level, very important for LNBs.. >Indeed would be fun to to test a few, >been working in the garden for hours, did put a peach seed in the ground in a sunny place, >wonder if it will grow into a tree.We have a wonderful Meyer lemon tree in our tiny back yard. Neignbors drop in when they need a lemon or two, and a couple are trying to clone it from seeds or cuttings. https://www.dropbox.com/s/kgmvedhuhsn76x3/Mo_and_lemons.jpg?raw=1 https://www.dropbox.com/s/1f5ux77p6o12w7k/Lemon-pumpkin.jpg?raw=1 https://www.dropbox.com/s/kwzfbkv1ua41p9i/Lemons_Post-Rat.JPG?raw=1 Our side of our street slopes down to the south, so we get sun... when it's not foggy like today. The people across the street have dark dank mouldy back yards where things don't grow well. These people across the street have a spiral staircase leading to their small farm on top the cliff, where they have sun. He brews beer too. https://www.dropbox.com/s/r7ji04b7mfj0pt5/Arbor_Small_Farm.jpg?raw=1 It took a big crew and a giant crane to lift the steel staircase over the house into the back yard. The payback in veggies is probably 300 years or so. -- Anybody can count to one. - Robert Widlar
