torsdag den 27. januar 2022 kl. 17.54.57 UTC+1 skrev Cydrome Leader:> Don Y <blocked...@foo.invalid> wrote: > > On 1/26/2022 1:44 AM, Mikko OH2HVJ wrote: > >> Don Y <blocked...@foo.invalid> writes: > >> > >>> I need a screw (a bit over 1/4" thread diameter) with a hole > >>> drilled longitudinally throughout its length. The hole as > >>> large as feasible without significantly reducing the strength > >>> to unusable (nebulous term) levels. > >> > >> Drill a hole to the screw ? If you don't have a lathe, you can do this > >> with a drill press by fixing the screw to the chuck and having the drill > >> bit stationary. Drill a starting hole with larger drill and through with > >> a smaller one(s). > > > > ? > > > > Why wouldn't I thread the screw into a tapped block (to support and > > reinforce the threads -- as well as act as a heat sink) -- after coating > > it with antiseize (as the drill bit's rotation will tend to want > > to tighten the screw in the block, possibly making removal more > > difficult)? > > > > And, I'd assume move from smaller diameter bits up through larger ones > > to minimize the amount of material being removed with each. > > > > This has the added advantage of giving me prototypes with increasing > > IDs that I can torque test (i.e., at what point have I removed > > TOO MUCH material and lost strength?). Trying to do this with > > ever smaller IDs means having to make (and destroy!) multiple screws > > to test (until you find one "strong enough"). > > > >> Brass is easier to work with, but suitable drills work fine with steel, > >> too. > > Why are you asking for help doing possibly the most simple task on a lathe, ever > if you have all the expertise? > > You make everything overly complex and still end up with dumb solutions. It's > fascinating.all Dons threads seems to end like that
"Hollow" screw
Started by ●January 26, 2022
Reply by ●January 27, 20222022-01-27
Reply by ●January 27, 20222022-01-27
On 1/26/2022 10:15 AM, Joe Gwinn wrote:> On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 23:24:34 -0700, Don Y > <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote: > >> I need a screw (a bit over 1/4" thread diameter) with a hole >> drilled longitudinally throughout its length. The hole as >> large as feasible without significantly reducing the strength >> to unusable (nebulous term) levels. >> >> I realize I will eventually have to contract a casting or machined >> parts. >> >> But, am looking for onesy-twosy quantities to demo a prototype. >> >> I thought I could approximate it using a threaded tube (NOT >> a pipe nipple). But, getting premade threaded tubing in that >> range seems difficult. >> >> I thought of manually threading a (soft, brass?) pipe of >> suitable ID/OD. >> >> Also thought of having one *printed* -- but I'm not sure getting >> the threads right would be practical (driven by how fine the >> layers are?). (I think most *plastics* would be too brittle >> when torqued in such an application so I'd have to print in >> metal) >> >> I also thought of physically removing the core material from >> a COTS screw (drill/cut -- possible with a brass screw?). >> >> Any other options? > > Many. But you need to define what you are trying to accomplish here, > versus all the things that didn't work, or useful answers may be rare. > What metals are allowed or required?Stainless and glass. I'm sure any manufacturing techniques appropriate to one "fastener" will liely NOT be appropriate to the other! :> It looks like we'll make a set of different swages for the stainless (to get the different "profiles" desired) and have them produced to order. Some form of friction clip along the lines of the one I cited, elsewhere, to secure them. The profiles should suggest that they aren't intended to be removed (unlike screws which have visible geometries suggestive of a tool-to-rotate) But, that can't stop anyone determined to drill them out, etc. (in which case, they'll have to deal with the consequences: "No user serviceable parts inside". Of course, I suspect folks will be considerably less willing to try dicking with the glass ones! (how are they going to replace them when they *do* break them? :> ) Abandoning the screw idea means a single packaging solution can apply to both types of materials. And, I can hack together a reasonable approximation of a (steel) prototype with COTS parts. Talking to a guy, today, about glass fabrication techniques. And, a tour, next week, of a shop to see things first-hand. This will be interesting!> The quickest solution may be to use a metalworking lathe to make the > needed bit. Unless the following works:
Reply by ●January 27, 20222022-01-27
Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:> On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 23:24:34 -0700, Don Y > <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote: > >>I need a screw (a bit over 1/4" thread diameter) with a hole >>drilled longitudinally throughout its length. The hole as >>large as feasible without significantly reducing the strength >>to unusable (nebulous term) levels. >> >>I realize I will eventually have to contract a casting or machined >>parts. >> >>But, am looking for onesy-twosy quantities to demo a prototype. >> >>I thought I could approximate it using a threaded tube (NOT >>a pipe nipple). But, getting premade threaded tubing in that >>range seems difficult. >> >>I thought of manually threading a (soft, brass?) pipe of >>suitable ID/OD. >> >>Also thought of having one *printed* -- but I'm not sure getting >>the threads right would be practical (driven by how fine the >>layers are?). (I think most *plastics* would be too brittle >>when torqued in such an application so I'd have to print in >>metal) >> >>I also thought of physically removing the core material from >>a COTS screw (drill/cut -- possible with a brass screw?). >> >>Any other options? > > Many. But you need to define what you are trying to accomplish here, > versus all the things that didn't work, or useful answers may be rare. > What metals are allowed or required? > > The quickest solution may be to use a metalworking lathe to make the > needed bit. Unless the following works: > > .<https://www.mcmaster.com/threaded-tubes/hollow-threaded-studs/> > > Joe GwinnThat's sort of the problem here. He has absolutely no idea what he wants or what he is even talking about. It's all nonsense try to sound "clever". Any good info is shot down with a dumb reply and weird drawn-out reason about why solutions people with real problems use with success are not valid. Latest bizarre acronym obsession = COTS. What will it be next?
Reply by ●January 27, 20222022-01-27
On 2022-01-27, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:> On 1/27/2022 1:21 AM, whit3rd wrote: >> On Wednesday, January 26, 2022 at 11:47:20 PM UTC-8, Don Y wrote: >>> On 1/26/2022 8:54 PM, whit3rd wrote: >>>> On Wednesday, January 26, 2022 at 7:01:04 PM UTC-8, Don Y wrote: >> >>>>> But, if one end of the rivet remains "blind", you need something to >>>>> grab it/bite into it. >> >>>> How about drive rivets? >>> "Pop" rivets? >> >> No, not the apply-tension type, the apply-percussion type, that uses >> a pin protruding from the head that is struck with a hammer... > > But, presumably, the force required wouldn't *require* a hammer > as the pin's motion is deforming the rivet in a manner simmilar to > the "early tugs" on a pop rivet. The final -- higher force -- tug > on the pop rivet is solely to snap the pin; the rivet has already > been deformed (i.e., the pin could be left in place without affecting > the quality of the fastening). > > Or, are the rivets made of tougher stuff that requires more force > (e.g., hammer-struck)? > > I'm off to hardware store, today, for some spray paint. I will see if > they have anything that I can evaluate.some are plastic and need the pin, some are metal and permanently deform, but probably still need the pin. -- Jasen.
Reply by ●January 28, 20222022-01-28
On Thu, 27 Jan 2022 06:29:31 -0700, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:>On 1/26/2022 6:41 AM, legg wrote: >> On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 23:24:34 -0700, Don Y >> <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote: >> >>> I need a screw (a bit over 1/4" thread diameter) with a hole >>> drilled longitudinally throughout its length. The hole as >>> large as feasible without significantly reducing the strength >>> to unusable (nebulous term) levels. >>> >>> I realize I will eventually have to contract a casting or machined >>> parts. >>> >>> But, am looking for onesy-twosy quantities to demo a prototype. >>> >>> I thought I could approximate it using a threaded tube (NOT >>> a pipe nipple). But, getting premade threaded tubing in that >>> range seems difficult. >>> >>> I thought of manually threading a (soft, brass?) pipe of >>> suitable ID/OD. >>> >>> Also thought of having one *printed* -- but I'm not sure getting >>> the threads right would be practical (driven by how fine the >>> layers are?). (I think most *plastics* would be too brittle >>> when torqued in such an application so I'd have to print in >>> metal) >>> >>> I also thought of physically removing the core material from >>> a COTS screw (drill/cut -- possible with a brass screw?). >>> >>> Any other options? >> >> Look at bicycle caliper brake adjustment hardware. >> >> Thread OD typically 0.225in - possibly an M5 or M6 thread. > >That's an idea! I've not owned a bike in years so can't recall >the details but I do recall their presence by the brake levers >(effectively altering the ratio of inner cable to outer sheath)Tends to be Aluminum in the caliper adjustment, but longer and brass in the presta valve. Tubes are easier to come by and are regularly trashed, so maybe easier to get. RL
Reply by ●January 28, 20222022-01-28
Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:> On 1/26/2022 10:15 AM, Joe Gwinn wrote: >> On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 23:24:34 -0700, Don Y >> <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote: >> >>> I need a screw (a bit over 1/4" thread diameter) with a hole >>> drilled longitudinally throughout its length. The hole as >>> large as feasible without significantly reducing the strength >>> to unusable (nebulous term) levels. >>> >>> I realize I will eventually have to contract a casting or machined >>> parts. >>> >>> But, am looking for onesy-twosy quantities to demo a prototype. >>> >>> I thought I could approximate it using a threaded tube (NOT >>> a pipe nipple). But, getting premade threaded tubing in that >>> range seems difficult. >>> >>> I thought of manually threading a (soft, brass?) pipe of >>> suitable ID/OD. >>> >>> Also thought of having one *printed* -- but I'm not sure getting >>> the threads right would be practical (driven by how fine the >>> layers are?). (I think most *plastics* would be too brittle >>> when torqued in such an application so I'd have to print in >>> metal) >>> >>> I also thought of physically removing the core material from >>> a COTS screw (drill/cut -- possible with a brass screw?). >>> >>> Any other options? >> >> Many. But you need to define what you are trying to accomplish here, >> versus all the things that didn't work, or useful answers may be rare. >> What metals are allowed or required? > > Stainless and glass. I'm sure any manufacturing techniques appropriate > to one "fastener" will liely NOT be appropriate to the other! :> > > It looks like we'll make a set of different swages for the stainless > (to get the different "profiles" desired) and have them produced to order. > Some form of friction clip along the lines of the one I cited, elsewhere, > to secure them. The profiles should suggest that they aren't intended to > be removed (unlike screws which have visible geometries suggestive of > a tool-to-rotate) > > But, that can't stop anyone determined to drill them out, etc. (in which > case, they'll have to deal with the consequences: "No user serviceable parts > inside". > > Of course, I suspect folks will be considerably less willing to > try dicking with the glass ones! (how are they going to replace > them when they *do* break them? :> ) > > Abandoning the screw idea means a single packaging solution can apply > to both types of materials. And, I can hack together a reasonable > approximation of a (steel) prototype with COTS parts. > > Talking to a guy, today, about glass fabrication techniques. And, > a tour, next week, of a shop to see things first-hand. > > This will be interesting! > >> The quickest solution may be to use a metalworking lathe to make the >> needed bit. Unless the following works:Blowhard rating : 10+ This guy went from can't drill a hole in a 1/4-20 bolt to custom swages and glass fabrication tecniques to avoid visible geometries. Classic. Keep these coming! I want to hear how you attack the unsolved problem of keeping a stack of papers connected to each other so they don't get lost, out of order and can be handled as one unit.
Reply by ●January 28, 20222022-01-28
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 Cydrome Leader wrote:> [...] > Classic. Keep these coming! I want to hear how you attack the unsolved > problem of keeping a stack of papers connected to each other so they > don't get lost, out of order and can be handled as one unit.Obviously a (diagonal) stripe along the edges such that any misalignment is visible. Granted, this doesn't solve losing a page, but any other method would have you losing the entire stack! Obviously it's the superior choice. (the above to be read with tongue firmly in cheek :) ) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEE3asj+xn6fYUcweBnbWVw5UznKGAFAmH0DK0ACgkQbWVw5Uzn KGDKlQ//Z8nkwcmgjB/XsiAUB7QXzwejBiSqnK8NtTwSkxmd3LVRNIArkrfeT8P6 XkAfYDyt5eXq3EHLYtM/R1burtXpfRn03vxLhsIEFGA4vzLPuceIcExlDrsNcNCL GRK5eHOvQu4kRax06S+q0cFAdnSS9nrkmtpmvUslFzPoppLeArWWDEe1tF+L9bEj LqQS318BfJDbOx3P4oiyLXGQHqBAeNMuwlISLeuVdU6+lB2lG630sAb80+haUpUs 7FPoinJU5CLt/nIcQL5c7RawVNGBAs6N1tIOxN5cNTgEB3UjmcW1Lu66d3h/RRTs BziCtezckbhmiLzwyFcvveNgosLuKb/uLsIJs0uLgaizn+/DrdPx4n+m2jjlhhvT VJX9IrsYiIIK2HhLWvCEaWw2rXiJ+5anEKMRr+iU1oRFtiU3CeAdKUWkia4l5rk0 aKT1uJmHGtavRrmrcs7YpsoeD1DjyYTNqo0R+GR0FveQL9n60gsL8ghyiQGSgNTk lZTGqfQyPBUZToZOz0As2uQ0xhG9io9U9kf+GJGqhKA+ICLXxDukKNDwoKEV9lRi GBrgbM/dlGjHx4EJ6nuTQLmxlZOyKB027XzsvpKrS9vA9yvcvZpXk7OAsYLD3/S5 T5ryQ3K+VIEaRpmmmOenFWgzZk61gipSonEYNR9GSwHMiqxdXXw= =LScO -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- |_|O|_| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert |_|_|O| PGP: DDAB 23FB 19FA 7D85 1CC1 E067 6D65 70E5 4CE7 2860 |O|O|O|
Reply by ●January 28, 20222022-01-28
On 1/28/2022 6:29 AM, legg wrote:> On Thu, 27 Jan 2022 06:29:31 -0700, Don Y > <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote: > >> On 1/26/2022 6:41 AM, legg wrote: >>> On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 23:24:34 -0700, Don Y >>> <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote: >>> >>>> I need a screw (a bit over 1/4" thread diameter) with a hole >>>> drilled longitudinally throughout its length. The hole as >>>> large as feasible without significantly reducing the strength >>>> to unusable (nebulous term) levels. >>>> >>>> I realize I will eventually have to contract a casting or machined >>>> parts. >>>> >>>> But, am looking for onesy-twosy quantities to demo a prototype. >>>> >>>> I thought I could approximate it using a threaded tube (NOT >>>> a pipe nipple). But, getting premade threaded tubing in that >>>> range seems difficult. >>>> >>>> I thought of manually threading a (soft, brass?) pipe of >>>> suitable ID/OD. >>>> >>>> Also thought of having one *printed* -- but I'm not sure getting >>>> the threads right would be practical (driven by how fine the >>>> layers are?). (I think most *plastics* would be too brittle >>>> when torqued in such an application so I'd have to print in >>>> metal) >>>> >>>> I also thought of physically removing the core material from >>>> a COTS screw (drill/cut -- possible with a brass screw?). >>>> >>>> Any other options? >>> >>> Look at bicycle caliper brake adjustment hardware. >>> >>> Thread OD typically 0.225in - possibly an M5 or M6 thread. >> >> That's an idea! I've not owned a bike in years so can't recall >> the details but I do recall their presence by the brake levers >> (effectively altering the ratio of inner cable to outer sheath) > > Tends to be Aluminum in the caliper adjustment, but longer and > brass in the presta valve. Tubes are easier to come by and are > regularly trashed, so maybe easier to get.So, unlike the practice (as a kid) of *patching* a tube for reuse, they are now considered "disposable"? (or, has some aspect changed that makes patching impractical) OK, so my neighbor (semi-professional rider who does these 100-mile "tours") won't be "put out" by my asking him to save his next flat for me? (or, canvas his friends for one) I know he volunteers at a local non-profit that builds bikes for underprivileged kids. Would those types of builds use tubes with that valve? Or, would they still be Shrader? (i.e., how likely would that group be as a source of a "bad tube"?) Thanks!
Reply by ●January 29, 20222022-01-29
On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 10:24:58 PM UTC-8, Don Y wrote:> I need ...a threaded tube (NOT > a pipe nipple). But, getting premade threaded tubing in that > range seems difficult.If you can CAD the shape and pick a material from a list, there's online shops that'll do the rest for ya. <https://www.emachineshop.com/start/> A threaded tube is just chuck a rod, drill on axis, turn to diameter, thread, and part off, robotic lathes can do it quick and easy.
Reply by ●January 29, 20222022-01-29
On Fri, 28 Jan 2022 19:43:26 -0700, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:>On 1/28/2022 6:29 AM, legg wrote: >> On Thu, 27 Jan 2022 06:29:31 -0700, Don Y >> <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote: >> >>> On 1/26/2022 6:41 AM, legg wrote: >>>> On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 23:24:34 -0700, Don Y >>>> <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I need a screw (a bit over 1/4" thread diameter) with a hole >>>>> drilled longitudinally throughout its length. The hole as >>>>> large as feasible without significantly reducing the strength >>>>> to unusable (nebulous term) levels. >>>>> >>>>> I realize I will eventually have to contract a casting or machined >>>>> parts. >>>>> >>>>> But, am looking for onesy-twosy quantities to demo a prototype. >>>>> >>>>> I thought I could approximate it using a threaded tube (NOT >>>>> a pipe nipple). But, getting premade threaded tubing in that >>>>> range seems difficult. >>>>> >>>>> I thought of manually threading a (soft, brass?) pipe of >>>>> suitable ID/OD. >>>>> >>>>> Also thought of having one *printed* -- but I'm not sure getting >>>>> the threads right would be practical (driven by how fine the >>>>> layers are?). (I think most *plastics* would be too brittle >>>>> when torqued in such an application so I'd have to print in >>>>> metal) >>>>> >>>>> I also thought of physically removing the core material from >>>>> a COTS screw (drill/cut -- possible with a brass screw?). >>>>> >>>>> Any other options? >>>> >>>> Look at bicycle caliper brake adjustment hardware. >>>> >>>> Thread OD typically 0.225in - possibly an M5 or M6 thread. >>> >>> That's an idea! I've not owned a bike in years so can't recall >>> the details but I do recall their presence by the brake levers >>> (effectively altering the ratio of inner cable to outer sheath) >> >> Tends to be Aluminum in the caliper adjustment, but longer and >> brass in the presta valve. Tubes are easier to come by and are >> regularly trashed, so maybe easier to get. > >So, unlike the practice (as a kid) of *patching* a tube for reuse, >they are now considered "disposable"? (or, has some aspect changed >that makes patching impractical) > >OK, so my neighbor (semi-professional rider who does these 100-mile >"tours") won't be "put out" by my asking him to save his next flat >for me? (or, canvas his friends for one) > >I know he volunteers at a local non-profit that builds bikes for >underprivileged kids. Would those types of builds use tubes with >that valve? Or, would they still be Shrader? (i.e., how likely >would that group be as a source of a "bad tube"?) > >Thanks!Real bike nuts use some kind of strange tubeless concoction. Your local bike or sports store will stock tubes with either presta or schraeder valves. Schraeders aren't any use to you. If they've got a repair department they'll likely have a handfull of old tubes in their garbage. New tubes can be had for <$5. I carry patched spares in my bike tool kit, because repairs on the road are quicker that way, and patching works better in a dry, well-lit and heated environment. RL
