I got some Aluminium wire by mistake. It's difficult to solder. Perhaps it's made for crimp connectors. In the long run, do Aluminium wire break easier than Copper wire?
Aluminium vs. Copper Wire
Started by ●January 10, 2022
Reply by ●January 10, 20222022-01-10
On Mon, 10 Jan 2022 08:42:09 -0800 (PST), Ed Lee <edward.ming.lee@gmail.com> wrote:>I got some Aluminium wire by mistake. It's difficult to solder. Perhaps it's made for crimp connectors. In the long run, do Aluminium wire break easier than Copper wire?Breaks easier, and can cause fires at high currents. It's difficult to terminate peoperly. https://structuretech.com/aluminum-wiring-2/ -- I yam what I yam - Popeye
Reply by ●January 10, 20222022-01-10
Ed Lee <edward.ming.lee@gmail.com> wrote:> I got some Aluminium wire by mistake. It's difficult to solder. Perhaps it's made for crimp connectors. In the long run, do Aluminium wire break easier than Copper wire?What type of wire and guage? Al can be crimped with the proper tooling like with solid wire crimps and dies, not the stuff you just crush with the plier looking tooling. I'd still use a deoxit type grease. Soldering Al is a weird process, needs lots of scraping and a zinc bearing solder. No flux is needed.
Reply by ●January 10, 20222022-01-10
On Monday, January 10, 2022 at 11:05:06 AM UTC-8, Cydrome Leader wrote:> Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote: > > I got some Aluminium wire by mistake. It's difficult to solder. Perhaps it's made for crimp connectors. In the long run, do Aluminium wire break easier than Copper wire? > What type of wire and guage? Al can be crimped with the proper tooling > like with solid wire crimps and dies, not the stuff you just crush with > the plier looking tooling. I'd still use a deoxit type grease. > > Soldering Al is a weird process, needs lots of scraping and a zinc bearing > solder. No flux is needed.AWG 20 dark brown wire. It looks just like copper wire, but cheaper, lighter and more flexible. I worry that it might break internally with repeated flexing.
Reply by ●January 10, 20222022-01-10
On Mon, 10 Jan 2022 19:05:00 -0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader <presence@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote:>Ed Lee <edward.ming.lee@gmail.com> wrote: >> I got some Aluminium wire by mistake. It's difficult to solder. Perhaps it's made for crimp connectors. In the long run, do Aluminium wire break easier than Copper wire? > >What type of wire and guage? Al can be crimped with the proper tooling >like with solid wire crimps and dies, not the stuff you just crush with >the plier looking tooling. I'd still use a deoxit type grease. > >Soldering Al is a weird process, needs lots of scraping and a zinc bearing >solder. No flux is needed.Copper wire is pretty good copper. Aluminum is sold as alloys, some with rotten electrical conductivity. Numbers like 4:1 worse than pure copper. -- If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts, but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties. Francis Bacon
Reply by ●January 10, 20222022-01-10
On Monday, January 10, 2022 at 2:20:04 PM UTC-5, Ed Lee wrote:> On Monday, January 10, 2022 at 11:05:06 AM UTC-8, Cydrome Leader wrote: > > Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote: > > > I got some Aluminium wire by mistake. It's difficult to solder. Perhaps it's made for crimp connectors. In the long run, do Aluminium wire break easier than Copper wire? > > What type of wire and guage? Al can be crimped with the proper tooling > > like with solid wire crimps and dies, not the stuff you just crush with > > the plier looking tooling. I'd still use a deoxit type grease. > > > > Soldering Al is a weird process, needs lots of scraping and a zinc bearing > > solder. No flux is needed. > AWG 20 dark brown wire. It looks just like copper wire, but cheaper, lighter and more flexible. I worry that it might break internally with repeated flexing.No worries. It will break under repeated flexing. Probably your wire is copper coated aluminum. That is fairly common as it resolves the issues of soldering if not crimping. The problems with crimping or screw terminals is the different coefficients of expansion which ultimately loosens the joint. There are crimp connections that do not come loose, but they use specialized tools and crimps. I ordered some copper wire from Ebay and got something one and a half AWG sizes smaller. I ordered two sizes up and again, got something 1.5 AWG sizes smaller. I repeated this a couple more times and they started shipping me Cu covered Al wires. Of course, I got a refund on every one but the first because I didn't inspect it in time to get the refund. Even though they are just in Maryland, ~100 miles from me, they never paid the return shipping to get it back. The insulation even has their name on it, so they can't claim they didn't know it w Aluminum and copper coated aluminum were used widely in the 70s in the US. Many of them caused fires because they were not installed correctly. In the 90s there were many services which would crimp (properly) copper ends onto the aluminum wires so they could be used with conventional devices without risk of fire. I don't hear about this so much anymore. Aluminum wire was used to install an after market heat pump in my father's house. The wires in the circuit panel became loose and fried the compressor. It was probably not a very efficient unit, but it ran for some 25 years before it was killed. Colman branded I believe. Now people tell me heat pumps seldom last 15 years. I think that is some malarkey. They are no different from refrigerators really. I've never had a fridge die other than to rust out. I've never had a heat pump last less than 20 years. -- Rick C. - Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging - Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Reply by ●January 10, 20222022-01-10
On Monday, January 10, 2022 at 12:20:45 PM UTC-8, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:> On Monday, January 10, 2022 at 2:20:04 PM UTC-5, Ed Lee wrote: > > On Monday, January 10, 2022 at 11:05:06 AM UTC-8, Cydrome Leader wrote: > > > Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > I got some Aluminium wire by mistake. It's difficult to solder. Perhaps it's made for crimp connectors. In the long run, do Aluminium wire break easier than Copper wire? > > > What type of wire and guage? Al can be crimped with the proper tooling > > > like with solid wire crimps and dies, not the stuff you just crush with > > > the plier looking tooling. I'd still use a deoxit type grease. > > > > > > Soldering Al is a weird process, needs lots of scraping and a zinc bearing > > > solder. No flux is needed. > > AWG 20 dark brown wire. It looks just like copper wire, but cheaper, lighter and more flexible. I worry that it might break internally with repeated flexing. > No worries. It will break under repeated flexing. Probably your wire is copper coated aluminum.It looks like old copper (dark brown) wire inside. Solder does not stick to it.> That is fairly common as it resolves the issues of soldering if not crimping. The problems with crimping or screw terminals is the different coefficients of expansion which ultimately loosens the joint. There are crimp connections that do not come loose, but they use specialized tools and crimps. > > I ordered some copper wire from Ebay and got something one and a half AWG sizes smaller. I ordered two sizes up and again, got something 1.5 AWG sizes smaller. I repeated this a couple more times and they started shipping me Cu covered Al wires. Of course, I got a refund on every one but the first because I didn't inspect it in time to get the refund. Even though they are just in Maryland, ~100 miles from me, they never paid the return shipping to get it back. The insulation even has their name on it, so they can't claim they didn't know it wI have three different sizes and stiffness AWG22 wires. Standard doesn't seem to help much.
Reply by ●January 10, 20222022-01-10
On Mon, 10 Jan 2022 12:05:19 -0800, John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:>On Mon, 10 Jan 2022 19:05:00 -0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader ><presence@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote: > >>Ed Lee <edward.ming.lee@gmail.com> wrote: >>> I got some Aluminium wire by mistake. It's difficult to solder. Perhaps it's made for crimp connectors. In the long run, do Aluminium wire break easier than Copper wire? >> >>What type of wire and guage? Al can be crimped with the proper tooling >>like with solid wire crimps and dies, not the stuff you just crush with >>the plier looking tooling. I'd still use a deoxit type grease. >> >>Soldering Al is a weird process, needs lots of scraping and a zinc bearing >>solder. No flux is needed. > >Copper wire is pretty good copper. Aluminum is sold as alloys, some >with rotten electrical conductivity. Numbers like 4:1 worse than pure >copper.Actually, Amazon or ebay will sell you solid plated "copper" wire, intended for jewelry making, that's stiff and not a very good conductor. -- If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts, but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties. Francis Bacon
Reply by ●January 10, 20222022-01-10
John Larkin wrote: ===============>> > Copper wire is pretty good copper. Aluminum is sold as alloys, some > with rotten electrical conductivity. Numbers like 4:1 worse than pure > copper. >** Large electros with screw terminals are sometimes linked using a metal bar to form pairs for plus/minus DC rails. The bar also often forms a ground or common in the device. Nickel plated copper is ideal for the job. But some think aluminium sheet or bar is just as good, even if less than 2mm thick. It's not. ..... Phil
Reply by ●January 10, 20222022-01-10
On Monday, January 10, 2022 at 12:20:45 PM UTC-8, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:> Aluminum and copper coated aluminum were used widely in the 70s in the US. Many of them caused fires because they were not installed correctly. In the 90s there were many services which would crimp (properly) copper ends onto the aluminum wires so they could be used with conventional devices without risk of fire. I don't hear about this so much anymore.Large-gage wires are almost always aluminum (500 mcm and up), and are terminated in hydraulic swaged copper-alloy lugs with a paste that prevents corrosion/degradation of the joints. It has been used extensively for many decades, but is not often found in house wiring because of its past problems, and building code restrictions. Proper techniques are older than the 90s, I wired a bakery in the early 70s that used acceptable oxygen-free aluminum terminations.
