On Saturday, January 1, 2022 at 12:45:52 PM UTC-8, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:> On Sat, 01 Jan 2022 13:45:00 -0500, legg <le...@nospam.magma.ca> wrote: > > >On Sat, 1 Jan 2022 04:01:57 -0800 (PST), Anthony William Sloman > ><bill....@ieee.org> wrote: > > > >>On Saturday, January 1, 2022 at 12:43:32 PM UTC+11, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: > >>> On Fri, 31 Dec 2021 20:21:16 -0500, legg <le...@nospam.magma.ca> wrote: > >>> >On Fri, 31 Dec 2021 09:23:48 -0800, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: > >>> >>On Fri, 31 Dec 2021 11:38:25 -0500, legg <le...@nospam.magma.ca> wrote: > >>> >>>On Thu, 30 Dec 2021 19:05:06 -0800 (PST), Anthony William Sloman <bill....@ieee.org> wrote: > >>> >>>>On Friday, December 31, 2021 at 5:21:07 AM UTC+11, John Larkin wrote: > >>> >>>>> On Thu, 30 Dec 2021 09:08:03 -0500, legg <le...@nospam.magma.ca> wrote: > >>> >>>>> > >>> >>>>> >On Thu, 30 Dec 2021 19:04:22 +1100, Sylvia Else <syl...@email.invalid> > >>> >>>>> >wrote: > >>> >>>>> > > >>> >>>>> >>On 30-Dec-21 4:11 pm, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: > >>> >>>>> >>> Version 4 > >>> >>>>> >> > >>> >>>>> >><snip> > >>> >>>>> >> > >>> >>>>> >>What is the use-case for this that a conventional digital isolator > >>> >>>>> >>wouldn't be suitable for? > >>> >>>>> > > >>> >>>>> >Sometimes used in lower frequency isolated gate drive, when minimal > >>> >>>>> >magnetics cost is the aim. > >>> >>>>> > >>> >>>>> It's faster than most isolators, and is DC-coupled, after a power-up > >>> >>>>> priming shot. > >>> >>>> > >>> >>>>Not a claim that's worth making for a purely theoretical transformer driving an LT Spice generic Schmitt trigger. > >>> >>>> > >>> >>>>No parallel capacitance across either inductor, and no current induced in the transformer core - it's a little too theoretical too swank about. > >>> >>>> > >>> >>>>It worked fine when I did it in 1979, but I wasn't around to see it go into production (if it did). > >>> >>> > >>> >>>Getting the model to act like the real thing takes time and effort. > >>> >>> > >>> >>>Getting the real thing to act like the model is probably delusional. > >>> >> > >>> >>Right, it's best to avoid designing any electronics. It's too hard and > >>> >>too risky. > >>> > > >>> >Hey! The model works! What's HIS problem . . . ? > >>> > >>> Do you mean Sloman? > >> > >>Legg was responding to one of your posts, not mine. > >> > >>> He's the group leader on never actually doing anything. > >> > >>I'd got what you posted working with real parts back in 1979 - I'd already done it, so why would I need to do it again? > >> > >>> So naturally he finds reasons why nothing will work. > >> > >>I didn't say it wouldn't work - I just pointed out that the transformer model wasn't all that realistic, and neither was the Schmitt trigger. > >> > >>You could have done quite a bit better, and telling us what you had in mind to use for your transformer would have been a good start. > > > >Simulationss are useful in that they suggest what should or > >could work. > > > >If you limit it to a specific application, you can introduce > >realistic strays and likely operating conditions with increasingly > >more accurate models. > > > >The 'party trick' aspect of this circuit was the miniscule magnetic > >component that was possible - though reduction in actual cost shows > >diminishing and even reversing returns as you get carried away. > >An integrated magnetic component has been used in some places, > >though the isolation tended to be compromised. > > > >Semiconductor 'pulse stretchers' go back to the mid 70's. Physical > >iteration may still be the fastest way to implimentation for a > >practical app, though a pencil and paper can cut this work down. > >The simulation just eats man-hours. > > > >RL > Spice is great. It lets a person play with ideas quickly, explore > hunches, get quantitative with the things that look promising. > Sometimes I design a circuit and understand it later, if ever. > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6TrbD7-IwU > > "Intuition is the most important part of engineering." > > "The function of a simulator is to train your instincts."I happened to be reading a bio on Richard Hamming today: "The purpose of computing is insight, not numbers."
transformer coupled logic isolator
Started by ●December 30, 2021
Reply by ●January 4, 20222022-01-04
Reply by ●January 5, 20222022-01-05
On Tue, 4 Jan 2022 19:23:26 -0800 (PST), Simon S Aysdie <gwhite@ti.com> wrote:>On Saturday, January 1, 2022 at 12:45:52 PM UTC-8, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >> On Sat, 01 Jan 2022 13:45:00 -0500, legg <le...@nospam.magma.ca> wrote: >> >> >On Sat, 1 Jan 2022 04:01:57 -0800 (PST), Anthony William Sloman >> ><bill....@ieee.org> wrote: >> > >> >>On Saturday, January 1, 2022 at 12:43:32 PM UTC+11, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >> >>> On Fri, 31 Dec 2021 20:21:16 -0500, legg <le...@nospam.magma.ca> wrote: >> >>> >On Fri, 31 Dec 2021 09:23:48 -0800, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >> >>> >>On Fri, 31 Dec 2021 11:38:25 -0500, legg <le...@nospam.magma.ca> wrote: >> >>> >>>On Thu, 30 Dec 2021 19:05:06 -0800 (PST), Anthony William Sloman <bill....@ieee.org> wrote: >> >>> >>>>On Friday, December 31, 2021 at 5:21:07 AM UTC+11, John Larkin wrote: >> >>> >>>>> On Thu, 30 Dec 2021 09:08:03 -0500, legg <le...@nospam.magma.ca> wrote: >> >>> >>>>> >> >>> >>>>> >On Thu, 30 Dec 2021 19:04:22 +1100, Sylvia Else <syl...@email.invalid> >> >>> >>>>> >wrote: >> >>> >>>>> > >> >>> >>>>> >>On 30-Dec-21 4:11 pm, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >> >>> >>>>> >>> Version 4 >> >>> >>>>> >> >> >>> >>>>> >><snip> >> >>> >>>>> >> >> >>> >>>>> >>What is the use-case for this that a conventional digital isolator >> >>> >>>>> >>wouldn't be suitable for? >> >>> >>>>> > >> >>> >>>>> >Sometimes used in lower frequency isolated gate drive, when minimal >> >>> >>>>> >magnetics cost is the aim. >> >>> >>>>> >> >>> >>>>> It's faster than most isolators, and is DC-coupled, after a power-up >> >>> >>>>> priming shot. >> >>> >>>> >> >>> >>>>Not a claim that's worth making for a purely theoretical transformer driving an LT Spice generic Schmitt trigger. >> >>> >>>> >> >>> >>>>No parallel capacitance across either inductor, and no current induced in the transformer core - it's a little too theoretical too swank about. >> >>> >>>> >> >>> >>>>It worked fine when I did it in 1979, but I wasn't around to see it go into production (if it did). >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>>Getting the model to act like the real thing takes time and effort. >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>>Getting the real thing to act like the model is probably delusional. >> >>> >> >> >>> >>Right, it's best to avoid designing any electronics. It's too hard and >> >>> >>too risky. >> >>> > >> >>> >Hey! The model works! What's HIS problem . . . ? >> >>> >> >>> Do you mean Sloman? >> >> >> >>Legg was responding to one of your posts, not mine. >> >> >> >>> He's the group leader on never actually doing anything. >> >> >> >>I'd got what you posted working with real parts back in 1979 - I'd already done it, so why would I need to do it again? >> >> >> >>> So naturally he finds reasons why nothing will work. >> >> >> >>I didn't say it wouldn't work - I just pointed out that the transformer model wasn't all that realistic, and neither was the Schmitt trigger. >> >> >> >>You could have done quite a bit better, and telling us what you had in mind to use for your transformer would have been a good start. >> > >> >Simulationss are useful in that they suggest what should or >> >could work. >> > >> >If you limit it to a specific application, you can introduce >> >realistic strays and likely operating conditions with increasingly >> >more accurate models. >> > >> >The 'party trick' aspect of this circuit was the miniscule magnetic >> >component that was possible - though reduction in actual cost shows >> >diminishing and even reversing returns as you get carried away. >> >An integrated magnetic component has been used in some places, >> >though the isolation tended to be compromised. >> > >> >Semiconductor 'pulse stretchers' go back to the mid 70's. Physical >> >iteration may still be the fastest way to implimentation for a >> >practical app, though a pencil and paper can cut this work down. >> >The simulation just eats man-hours. >> > >> >RL >> Spice is great. It lets a person play with ideas quickly, explore >> hunches, get quantitative with the things that look promising. >> Sometimes I design a circuit and understand it later, if ever. >> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6TrbD7-IwU >> >> "Intuition is the most important part of engineering." >> >> "The function of a simulator is to train your instincts." > >I happened to be reading a bio on Richard Hamming today: > >"The purpose of computing is insight, not numbers."Well, no. -- I yam what I yam - Popeye
