LT-SPICE license terms

Am 30.11.21 um 10:04 schrieb Johann Klammer:
> On 11/30/2021 12:46 PM, Okkim Atnarivik wrote:
>>
>>    I hear also that new versions of Kicad from CERN include a freeware
>> version of NG-Spice. Anyone here has experience?
>>
>>    Regards,
>>             Mikko

> I dunno about that "Freeware" version of theirs, but AFAIK ngspice is pretty much
> just the berkley spice. I don't like that they try to remove the docs and replace the
> waveform viewers and stuff (the usual crap the GNU people always do.
> replace well working stuff with modern garbage).

There is no freeware version of NG-Spice. It IS free both as in free 
beer and in free speech. Last time I compiled the Berkeley tape (in a 
previous life) there was no waveform viewer other than line printer plots.

NG-spice is one of the few spices that still have some support and 
integration of new features, such as event-based digital simulation, 
which itself needs a new waveform viewer. Most other Spices are dying 
out; after LTspice there is not much room left. All their local 
improvements will die with them. Making the binaries free when climbing 
into the grave won't help.

Gerhard

On 30-Nov-21 2:38 am, Rick C wrote:
>
> They are saying that you will give to ADI rights to any patents that ADI might be infringing!  "Licensed Software" refers to the definition they provided earlier.  This definition is far too broad in my opinion including not just LTspice, but all software ever written for the PC.  So assuming it is intended to me LTspice paragraph 3 is saying you give ADI a license to any Licensee patents, meaning YOUR patents that might apply to THEIR software.

That makes a sort of sense - they're trying to muddy the waters if you 
should install the software and then discover that it violates one of 
your patents, etc.

It's the kind of thing lawyers would come up with. Not sure that it 
actually works, since any such violation would predate the creation of 
the licence.

Sylvia.

On Tuesday, November 30, 2021 at 5:43:04 AM UTC-4, Kevin Aylward wrote:
> "Okkim Atnarivik" wrote in message 
> news:KTjpJ.759199$AkN1....@fx14.ams4...
> On 11/29/21 11:44 PM, Jasen Betts wrote: 
> > On 2021-11-29, Okkim Atnarivik <k...@wmail.fi.invalid> wrote: 
> >> Colleagues, 
> >> 
> >> After a long break in the use of LT-SPICE (IV) I attempted 
> >> installing the up-to-date version v17. However its EULA begins 
> >> as: 
> >> 
> >> "The Licensed Software consists of application software designed 
> >> to run on personal computers ("PC Software"). 
> >> 
> > 
> >> 
> >> The item 3 is really strange. I'm granting AD rights to all software 
> >> I have written (or my employer has written?) as long as it's 
> >> designed to run on personal computers? 
> > 
> >>> The introduction explains that "the licenced software" is the bundled 
> >>> software (LT-Spice and any other bundled components) 
> > 
> >>> I can't discuss this more, see section 5! 
> > 
> 
> >>> Oh my, you are correct. If we forget about LT-SPICE for a moment, 
> >>>there exists an EULA by manufacturer XXX whose clause YYY reads: 
> 
> >>"YYY. Publicity. Notwithstanding anything in this Agreement, Licensee 
> >>may not use any trademark or trade name of XXX or make any public 
> >>announcement regarding the existence of this Agreement without XXXs&rsquo; 
> >>prior written consent. Licensee may not publish or provide the results 
> >>of any benchmark or comparison tests run on the Licensed Software to any 
> >>third party without the prior written consent of XXX." 
> 
> > I might think that there exists no Agreement and I'm not bound by the 
> >terms, by merely reading and considering the EULA, however the 
> >introduction reads: 
> 
> >"YOU AGREE THAT YOU ARE BOUND BY THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF THIS 
> >AGREEMENT BY DOWNLOADING, INSTALLING, COPYING OR USING THE SOFTWARE. IF 
> >YOU DO NOT AGREE, DO NOT DOWNLOAD, INSTALL, COPY OR USE THE SOFTWARE. 
> >YOU REPRESENT THAT YOU ARE OVER THE AGE OF 18 AND HAVE THE CAPACITY AND 
> >AUTHORITY TO BIND YOURSELF OR YOUR EMPLOYER, AS APPLICABLE, TO THE TERMS 
> >OF THIS AGREEMENT." 
> 
> > I couldn't find the EULA in the web pages of XXX, so it seems to me 
> >the only way to read the terms is by downloading the software.
> Well... here in the UK, and most likely anywhere English Common law forms 
> the basis for their laws, such a clause is invalid. 
> 
> One cannot be bound to terms of a contract that one has had no opportunity 
> to read before the contract has been enacted. 
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olley_v_Marlborough_Court_Ltd 
> 
> I use this feature to systematically ignore any private firm parking 
> "frauds". That is, an attempt to claim that one has agreed to a parking 
> charge (fine) by pointing one to an unreadable sign somewhere else on the 
> property, after the contract has been made at the land entrance. 

Yeah, you  would think that to be obviously not fair and invalid... however 20 or so years ago the software companies managed  to convince some states that these types of cellophane licenses were essential to a software industry.  Once a few states passed such laws and were rewarded with massive construction projects and business relocation it was game on by the other states.  

At one time you could use this to your advantage and get a refund for the cost of Windows on a new PC by not acknowledging the software license and following the instructions to request a refund.  They don't do that anymore.  

I don't think anything in the MS license requires you to authorize them to use your patents.  

I wonder how licensing works if you were not the person who set up the machine and accepted the license, such as a for-hire IT service or do they rent computers? 

-- 

Rick C.

-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On 11/30/2021 11:29 AM, Gerhard Hoffmann wrote:
> 

> There is no freeware version of NG-Spice. It IS free both as in free
> beer and in free speech. Last time I compiled the Berkeley tape (in a
> previous life) there was no waveform viewer other than line printer
> plots.
they seem 2 have xplot and gnuplot.

> 
> NG-spice is one of the few spices that still have some support and
> integration of new features, such as event-based digital simulation,
> which itself needs a new waveform viewer. Most other Spices are dying
> out; after LTspice there is not much room left. All their local
> improvements will die with them. Making the binaries free when
> climbing into the grave won't help.
> 
> Gerhard

the nghelp gets only buit with --enable-oldapps
and the xplot needs --with-x, I think.. somehow it didn't autodetect.

I found the old build dir on the hd (ngspice-9238c0 2020ish)
../configure --prefix=/usr CFLAGS=-g -Os --enable-oldapps --enable-xspice --enable-cider --enable-pss --enable-predictor --enable-devlib --enable-ndev --with-x --with-readline=yes --enable-help