John Doe <always.look@message.header> wrote:> Bullshit. > > The troll doesn't even know how to format a USENET post...Oh the *irony* from the *John Doe troll* who daily shows that it "doesn't even know how to format a USENET post" every time it posts one of its troll format posts.
Bolt battery problem
Started by ●July 23, 2021
Reply by ●July 24, 20212021-07-24
Reply by ●July 24, 20212021-07-24
The nym-shifting troll's first post to this group... -- Edward Hernandez <dtgamer99@gmail.com> wrote:> Path: eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!aioe.org!HQqjtrwtWYY0cW+c5n/Byw.user.46.165.242.75.POSTED!not-for-mail > From: Edward Hernandez <dtgamer99@gmail.com> > Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design > Subject: Re: Bolt battery problem > Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2021 19:15:54 -0000 (UTC) > Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server > Message-ID: <sdhota$umm$1@gioia.aioe.org> > References: <f6200387-e646-43c2-99ae-480e88a42af5n@googlegroups.com> <53548e2c-5fe3-4953-ad35-d4561d04eb5an@googlegroups.com> <6ceee9cd-8ba2dfn43-841c-438b4af639c9n@googlegroups.com> <sdfnrk$smb$2@dont-email.me> <e0e0b455-49a7-4ac1-bff6-83d172bb9d35n@googlegroups.com> <smdofgl8hbutl9a39d3vgcqsd3s14s8ckb@4ax.com> <10ba905b-2056-4968-ad71-f8e1c7e7d15cn@googlegroups.com> <sdhf3d$8vl$2@dont-email.me> <4bc5e7a1-8442-452f-8dcc-95457ec4e4a2n@googlegroups.com> <sdhn7c$pkp$4@dont-email.me> > Injection-Info: gioia.aioe.org; logging-data="31446"; posting-host="HQqjtrwtWYY0cW+c5n/Byw.user.gioia.aioe.org"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@aioe.org"; > X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.9.2 > Xref: reader02.eternal-september.org sci.electronics.design:637993 > > John Doe <always.look@message.header> wrote: >> Bullshit. >> >> The troll doesn't even know how to format a USENET post... > > Oh the *irony* from the *John Doe troll* who daily shows that it > "doesn't even know how to format a USENET post" every time it posts one > of its troll format posts. > >
Reply by ●July 24, 20212021-07-24
On Saturday, 24 July 2021 at 11:47:14 UTC-7, John Doe wrote: ...> > Actually the opposite is true. > Bullshit. > > The troll doesn't even know how to format a USENET post... > > The larger the vehicle the smaller the percentage of the energy that is > > required for the fixed loads such as electronics, hotel loads, lights > > etc. > Hotel loads? What does that have to do with a car or BIKES..."Hotel Loads" is the common terminology for the electrical loads required to keep the driver and passengers comfortable, informed, and entertained. eg. heating, cooling, lighting, infotainment. ...> > > > Most of the heavy truck manufacturers have announced electric power > > versions of their vehicles. > In other words... It's not even in use yet.They've been in trials for a couple of years and they have customers lined up. Whether they meet expectations is yet to be seen. A lot of the incentive is financial as electric trucks promise to be more economical with lower fuel costs and reduced maintenance.> > Tesla and Mercedes are shortly going into production with theirs. > Anything is possible, but even "going into production" is not proof of > viability. Might want to look at the original post... > >> Seems weird to use the same small battery for a car as is used in a > >> cordless tool. > > > > The small cylindrical cells are cheaper per kWh because they were > > already in mass production. > Sure buddy. Manufacturing processes cannot be changed even when there are > grand scale projects to be done, the most obvious example being the > Australian power grid battery. Still using power tool batteries. > > There must be some reason...Tesla is the only manufacturer using small format cells. When Tesla started it seems they purchased existing hardware where possible, ie motors and transmissions from A/C Propulsion and standard 18650 lithium cells. Since then they have been adding their own technology with larger cylindrical cells using 2170 and most recently 4680 sizes. They also introduced permanent magnet motors with the Model 3. These motors are now used in all their other vehicles (including the Tesla Truck). They are used in combination with induction motors in many cases as it enables more control flexibility. kw
Reply by ●July 24, 20212021-07-24
> The troll doesn't even know how to format a USENET post...As ironically stated by the John Doe <always.look@message.header> troll in message-id <sdhn7c$pkp$4@dont-email.me>.
Reply by ●July 24, 20212021-07-24
https://electrek.co/2021/07/13/tesla-4680-battery-cell-lg-samsung-sample-cells-eye-big-contract/> Last year, Tesla unveiled its plan to produce its own new tabless > battery cell in a bigger format with a new chemistry. > > The automaker claims to have solved some major issues that were > preventing the industry from producing bigger cylindrical Li-ion cells > in a new format called 4680.What "major issues"? That's obviously the way to go. The likely problem with developing bigger batteries is that it requires hard work.
Reply by ●July 24, 20212021-07-24
Does "https://meat-business.club" ring a bell? Just curious... -- Edward Hernandez <dtgamer99@gmail.com> wrote:> Path: eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!aioe.org!HQqjtrwtWYY0cW+c5n/Byw.user.46.165.242.75.POSTED!not-for-mail > From: Edward Hernandez <dtgamer99@gmail.com> > Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design > Subject: Re: Bolt battery problem > Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2021 21:51:59 -0000 (UTC) > Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server > Message-ID: <sdi21v$h04$1@gioia.aioe.org> > References: <f6200387-e646-43c2-99ae-480e88a42af5n@googlegroups.com> <53548e2c-5fe3-4953-ad35-d4561d04eb5an@googlegroups.com> <6ceee9cd-8ba2dfn43-841c-438b4af639c9n@googlegroups.com> <sdfnrk$smb$2@dont-email.me> <e0e0b455-49a7-4ac1-bff6-83d172bb9d35n@googlegroups.com> <smdofgl8hbutl9a39d3vgcqsd3s14s8ckb@4ax.com> <10ba905b-2056-4968-ad71-f8e1c7e7d15cn@googlegroups.com> <sdhf3d$8vl$2@dont-email.me> <4bc5e7a1-8442-452f-8dcc-95457ec4e4a2n@googlegroups.com> <sdhn7c$pkp$4@dont-email.me> <sdhota$umm$1@gioia.aioe.org> <sdhqvl$svq$1@dont-email.me> > Injection-Info: gioia.aioe.org; logging-data="17412"; posting-host="HQqjtrwtWYY0cW+c5n/Byw.user.gioia.aioe.org"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@aioe.org"; > X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.9.2 > Xref: reader02.eternal-september.org sci.electronics.design:638004 > >> The troll doesn't even know how to format a USENET post... > > As ironically stated by the John Doe <always.look@message.header> troll > in message-id <sdhn7c$pkp$4@dont-email.me>. > > >
Reply by ●July 24, 20212021-07-24
On Saturday, July 24, 2021 at 11:28:26 AM UTC-7, John Doe wrote:> "ke...@kjwdesigns.com" <ke...@kjwdesigns.com> wrote: > > > Ed Lee wrote: > >> John Doe wrote: > > >>> Seems weird to use the same small battery for a car as is used in a > >>> cordless tool. > > >> Until we get some special metals from our alien friends, we are stuck > >> with around 4V cells. Leaf has 192 cells in 48 modules. Bolt has > >> (estimated) 192 cells in 96 modules. Tesla has 5000 to 7000 cells in 4 > >> to 6 modules. The reason for smaller cells is when one fails or leaks, > >> there is less damage. > > > The reason for the small cells (originally 18650) is that they're > > already in high mass production and so the cost curve had already been > > driven down a large amount although Tesla is driving the cost down > > further. > That might be more plausible than the "fire risk" theory, but I still > don't get it. Manufacturing can be changed in order to do things right. > > Normally products are made bigger instead of producing a gazillion tiny > products. Sealed lead acid batteries for example. > > Would be neat to see some PROFESSIONAL discussion on the issue. Until > then, assume it's a necessity for some unknown reason.This talks a little bit about electrolyte leakage: https://www.prevor.com/en/li-ion-batteries-chemical-hazard-inside-our-cars/ Perhaps we need a charger that monitor the internal battery temperature as well as voltage.
Reply by ●July 25, 20212021-07-25
On Sunday, July 25, 2021 at 12:37:04 PM UTC+10, Ed Lee wrote:> On Saturday, July 24, 2021 at 11:28:26 AM UTC-7, John Doe wrote: > > "ke...@kjwdesigns.com" <ke...@kjwdesigns.com> wrote: > > > Ed Lee wrote: > > >> John Doe wrote: > > > > >>> Seems weird to use the same small battery for a car as is used in a > > >>> cordless tool. > > > > >> Until we get some special metals from our alien friends, we are stuck > > >> with around 4V cells. Leaf has 192 cells in 48 modules. Bolt has > > >> (estimated) 192 cells in 96 modules. Tesla has 5000 to 7000 cells in 4 > > >> to 6 modules. The reason for smaller cells is when one fails or leaks, > > >> there is less damage. > > > > > The reason for the small cells (originally 18650) is that they're > > > already in high mass production and so the cost curve had already been > > > driven down a large amount although Tesla is driving the cost down > > > further. > > That might be more plausible than the "fire risk" theory, but I still > > don't get it. Manufacturing can be changed in order to do things right. > > > > Normally products are made bigger instead of producing a gazillion tiny > > products. Sealed lead acid batteries for example. > > > > Would be neat to see some PROFESSIONAL discussion on the issue. Until > > then, assume it's a necessity for some unknown reason. > > This talks a little bit about electrolyte leakage: > > https://www.prevor.com/en/li-ion-batteries-chemical-hazard-inside-our-cars/ > > Perhaps we need a charger that monitor the internal battery temperature as well as voltage.And how would it do that? Perhaps we need a battery that incorporates a core temperature sensor - and has a least one extra electrical connection to get this information out to the charger. Modulating the output voltage/current might be a bit tricky. -- Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply by ●July 25, 20212021-07-25
On Saturday, July 24, 2021 at 12:52:40 AM UTC-4, Tom Del Rosso wrote:> Cursitor Doom wrote: > > On Fri, 23 Jul 2021 08:26:11 -0700 (PDT), Ed Lee > > <edward....@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> GM advices not to charge more than 90%, and discharge less than 70 > >> miles. So, effective range of 60 miles? Not much more than my 50 > >> miles Leaf. At least, Leaf batteries don't catch on fire. Leaf > >> batteries are inefficient but over-engineered. > >> > >> https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/23/gm-issues-second-recall-of-chevy-bolt-evs-after-vehicles-catch-fire.html > > > > Jeez Louise. Anyone'd do better just buying a golf buggy. The > > technology just isn't there yet. > The other day I saw a poster touting the idea of inflatable sails on > container ships. Since the wind doesn't always blow it would obviously > make more sense to use oarsmen. And a guy banging a drum.The sails are a supplement to reduce the cost of transport, not a solitary means. -- Rick C. - Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging - Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Reply by ●July 25, 20212021-07-25
On Saturday, July 24, 2021 at 8:10:43 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:> On Sunday, July 25, 2021 at 12:37:04 PM UTC+10, Ed Lee wrote: > > On Saturday, July 24, 2021 at 11:28:26 AM UTC-7, John Doe wrote: > > > "ke...@kjwdesigns.com" <ke...@kjwdesigns.com> wrote: > > > > Ed Lee wrote: > > > >> John Doe wrote: > > > > > > >>> Seems weird to use the same small battery for a car as is used in a > > > >>> cordless tool. > > > > > > >> Until we get some special metals from our alien friends, we are stuck > > > >> with around 4V cells. Leaf has 192 cells in 48 modules. Bolt has > > > >> (estimated) 192 cells in 96 modules. Tesla has 5000 to 7000 cells in 4 > > > >> to 6 modules. The reason for smaller cells is when one fails or leaks, > > > >> there is less damage. > > > > > > > The reason for the small cells (originally 18650) is that they're > > > > already in high mass production and so the cost curve had already been > > > > driven down a large amount although Tesla is driving the cost down > > > > further. > > > That might be more plausible than the "fire risk" theory, but I still > > > don't get it. Manufacturing can be changed in order to do things right. > > > > > > Normally products are made bigger instead of producing a gazillion tiny > > > products. Sealed lead acid batteries for example. > > > > > > Would be neat to see some PROFESSIONAL discussion on the issue. Until > > > then, assume it's a necessity for some unknown reason. > > > > This talks a little bit about electrolyte leakage: > > > > https://www.prevor.com/en/li-ion-batteries-chemical-hazard-inside-our-cars/ > > > > Perhaps we need a charger that monitor the internal battery temperature as well as voltage. > And how would it do that? Perhaps we need a battery that incorporates a core temperature sensor - and has a least one extra electrical connection to get this information out to the charger. Modulating the output voltage/current might be a bit tricky.Leaf battery has four internal temperature sensors in the battery, accessible via CAN. ChaDeMo has CAN. We just need a low power home ChaDeMo DC charger. But for other vehicles, perhaps a usb-can link.
