Here's a "circuit golf" challenge (the goal is to solve the problem in minimum cost/complexity without using specialised components. The "HomeBus" communication standard (which Mitsubishi calls M-Net and some others refer to as P1P2) sends 9600 baud RS232 bytes using inverted "alternate mark inversion" (successive zero bits are sent 2V pulses with alternating phases) on a 12-15V multi-drop wire pair of indeterminate connection polarity. <https://echonet.jp/wp/wp-content/uploads/pdf/General/Standard/Echonet/Version_2_11_en/spec_v211e_3.pdf> <https://www.maximintegrated.com/en/design/technical-documents/app-notes/7/7224.html> Your goal is to detect both +ve and -ve pulses, and stretch them both to 100us +ve pulses so they can be fed into a UART to make a HomeBus receiver. There are chips to do this, e.g. MM1192/XL1192, MAX22088. Those are disallowed for this challenge. To get you started, here's a schematic that would not win any prizes: <https://github.com/LenShustek/M-NET-Sniffer/blob/master/Inside_MNET_01.pdf> Clifford Heath
Circuit golf
Started by ●September 2, 2020
Reply by ●September 3, 20202020-09-03
On 2020-09-03, Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> wrote:> Here's a "circuit golf" challenge (the goal is to solve the problem in > minimum cost/complexity without using specialised components. > > The "HomeBus" communication standard (which Mitsubishi calls M-Net and > some others refer to as P1P2) sends 9600 baud RS232 bytes using inverted > "alternate mark inversion" (successive zero bits are sent 2V pulses with > alternating phases) on a 12-15V multi-drop wire pair of indeterminate > connection polarity. > ><https://echonet.jp/wp/wp-content/uploads/pdf/General/Standard/Echonet/Version_2_11_en/spec_v211e_3.pdf> ><https://www.maximintegrated.com/en/design/technical-documents/app-notes/7/7224.html> > > Your goal is to detect both +ve and -ve pulses, and stretch them both to > 100us +ve pulses so they can be fed into a UART to make a HomeBus > receiver. There are chips to do this, e.g. MM1192/XL1192, MAX22088. > Those are disallowed for this challenge. > > To get you started, here's a schematic that would not win any prizes: ><https://github.com/LenShustek/M-NET-Sniffer/blob/master/Inside_MNET_01.pdf> > > Clifford Heath2 capacitors -> bridge rectifier (top to vcc bottom to...) -> 1K -> common emitter pnp transistor, (to timing node of) 555 monostable (27uS rest-state high) 8 to 11 parts depending on how you count the rectifier. not a good solution (succecptable to HF noise, common mode noise, and distortion...) but very golf. -- Jasen.
Reply by ●September 3, 20202020-09-03
On 03/09/2020 4:54 am, Jasen Betts wrote:> On 2020-09-03, Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> wrote: >> Here's a "circuit golf" challenge (the goal is to solve the problem in >> minimum cost/complexity without using specialised components. >> >> The "HomeBus" communication standard (which Mitsubishi calls M-Net and >> some others refer to as P1P2) sends 9600 baud RS232 bytes using inverted >> "alternate mark inversion" (successive zero bits are sent 2V pulses with >> alternating phases) on a 12-15V multi-drop wire pair of indeterminate >> connection polarity. >> >> <https://echonet.jp/wp/wp-content/uploads/pdf/General/Standard/Echonet/Version_2_11_en/spec_v211e_3.pdf> >> <https://www.maximintegrated.com/en/design/technical-documents/app-notes/7/7224.html> >> >> Your goal is to detect both +ve and -ve pulses, and stretch them both to >> 100us +ve pulses so they can be fed into a UART to make a HomeBus >> receiver. There are chips to do this, e.g. MM1192/XL1192, MAX22088. >> Those are disallowed for this challenge. >> >> To get you started, here's a schematic that would not win any prizes: >> <https://github.com/LenShustek/M-NET-Sniffer/blob/master/Inside_MNET_01.pdf> >> >> Clifford Heath > > 2 capacitors -> bridge rectifier (top to vcc bottom to...) -> 1K -> > common emitter pnp transistor, (to timing node of) 555 monostable (27uS rest-state high) > > 8 to 11 parts depending on how you count the rectifier. > > not a good solution (succecptable to HF noise, common mode noise, and > distortion...) but very golf. >Should be enough signal swing to illuminate an IRED so here is my idea: <https://www.dropbox.com/s/nmy56z7fakivm70/CH_challenge_MNET.JPG?dl=0> Nice challenge, thanks. piglet
Reply by ●September 3, 20202020-09-03
Not going to get much cheaper than a single MCU for the whole stack, no? It'll need coupling, filtering and protection, but that's fairly academic. With a bitrate that low, you might as well acquire it with ADC and DSP the whole thing. Even mere ATMEGAs have been made to talk USB, Ethernet and others. Recently saw an article, someone did this for an old HP two-wire serial protocol that was popular with their calculators, PCs, and some test equipment, from the 70s. Very simple method if you don't mind that the input voltage threshold might be a bit crap. Which means, it may not be exactly production ready; but even then, calibration can often be applied at nearly no cost. Now, I gather this is some kind of modulated RF signaling? Sampling that real-time will require a good bit of grunt (nothing a modestly priced ARM can't manage), else with some signal conditioning (PWMDAC bias + internal analog comparator) it could be detected directly (GPIO) or with the help of a timer (frequency counter or missing-pulse detector?). Generous filtering and error correction in the digital domain, and you're pretty much done. Might not be all that quick to implement, but so what. What if someone wants a different operation mode? Back to the soldering bench all over again; whereas the MCU can just load up another code module and it's off running. ;-) Tim -- Seven Transistor Labs, LLC Electrical Engineering Consultation and Design Website: https://www.seventransistorlabs.com/ "Clifford Heath" <no.spam@please.net> wrote in message news:NHW3H.115418$1a1.42802@fx18.iad...> Here's a "circuit golf" challenge (the goal is to solve the problem in > minimum cost/complexity without using specialised components. > > The "HomeBus" communication standard (which Mitsubishi calls M-Net and > some others refer to as P1P2) sends 9600 baud RS232 bytes using inverted > "alternate mark inversion" (successive zero bits are sent 2V pulses with > alternating phases) on a 12-15V multi-drop wire pair of indeterminate > connection polarity. > > <https://echonet.jp/wp/wp-content/uploads/pdf/General/Standard/Echonet/Version_2_11_en/spec_v211e_3.pdf> > <https://www.maximintegrated.com/en/design/technical-documents/app-notes/7/7224.html> > > Your goal is to detect both +ve and -ve pulses, and stretch them both to > 100us +ve pulses so they can be fed into a UART to make a HomeBus > receiver. There are chips to do this, e.g. MM1192/XL1192, MAX22088. Those > are disallowed for this challenge. > > To get you started, here's a schematic that would not win any prizes: > <https://github.com/LenShustek/M-NET-Sniffer/blob/master/Inside_MNET_01.pdf> > > Clifford Heath
Reply by ●September 7, 20202020-09-07
On 4/9/20 5:15 am, Tim Williams wrote:> Not going to get much cheaper than a single MCU for the whole stack, no?Not really in the spirit of circuit golf (which includes "why use a million transistors when four will do?"). My objective is to get clean RS-232 to feed to a (hardware) UART, not to build a software UART.> Now, I gather this is some kind of modulated RF signaling?No, it's just an encoded form of 9600 baud RS-232, superimposed on a DC supply line using alternate space encoding.> Might not be all that quick to implement, but so what.Again; circuit golf is about economical circuits you can make from recycled jelly-bean parts on a Saturday afternoon. CH