A quick search proves this poster is full of it... -- Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:> Path: eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!aioe.org!.POSTED.wzbYOeUQYlL43zqRqejsgA.user.gioia.aioe.org!not-for-mail > From: Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> > Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design > Subject: Re: OT: Debit card with WiFi? > Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2020 08:39:41 +0100 > Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server > Lines: 20 > Message-ID: <rh06bt$5s2$1@gioia.aioe.org> > References: <rgu19k$k5p$2@dont-email.me> <rgu2mh$12jn$1@gioia.aioe.org> <rgv7qi$qu7$6@dont-email.me> > NNTP-Posting-Host: wzbYOeUQYlL43zqRqejsgA.user.gioia.aioe.org > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > X-Complaints-To: abuse@aioe.org > User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.11.0 > Content-Language: en-GB > X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.9.2 > Xref: reader01.eternal-september.org sci.electronics.design:604811 > > On 11/08/2020 23:58, John Doe wrote: >> Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote: >> >>> They have been invaluable during the pandemic >> >> Last I heard there have been no known cases of the coronavirus being >> transmitted via surfaces. > > You are kidding, right? The main vector for Covid-19 transmission is > frequently touched surfaces like door handles and stair banisters. > > Touch a contaminated surface and then your face and you are likely to be > infected. That is why there is wash hands carefully and often advice. > > Interestingly this strong hygiene advice at the start of the UK pandemic > squashed the remaining seasonal flu down to nothing in a fortnight. > > -- > Regards, > Martin Brown > >
OT: Debit card with WiFi?
Started by ●August 11, 2020
Reply by ●August 12, 20202020-08-12
Reply by ●August 12, 20202020-08-12
On Tuesday, August 11, 2020 at 3:53:42 PM UTC-7, John Doe wrote:> Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote: > > > John Doe wrote: > > >> I suppose it's not WiFi in the debit card, but somehow the new > >> debit card can be sensed by WiFi from the cash machine. Anybody > >> have and use one yet? I have such a card but haven't used that > >> feature/function. > > > > Contactless RF induction based communication. > > > > They have been around in the UK and Europe for ages along with > > peculiar adverts for them. I never could see why I would ever want > > to buy one banana whilst on a waterslide but Barclaycard did. URL > > below - enjoy: > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WlRcXIO5ik > > > > Since it is set in America I had assumed they were common there > > too. Evidently it is not a metallic pipe. > >> > >> You do not insert the card, they say you "tap" it on the machine. > > > > Wave it close enough and the thing powers up from near field > > radiation > > It's not tapping, it's the card being close to the machine? That was a > technical detail I was curious about. > > Must you wave it? :DNo need to tap or wave, just place it close enough for the build-in coil for detection and power. For us, EV drivers, we use RFID cards almost daily. Most EV chargers have RFID reader rather than magnetic card reader. I carry three cards at a minimum. It would be nice if the chargers can just use credit cards with RFID.
Reply by ●August 12, 20202020-08-12
John Doe wrote:> Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote: > >> They have been invaluable during the pandemic > > Last I heard there have been no known cases of the coronavirus being > transmitted via surfaces. >But that is exactly why one MUST be obsessive about cleaning surfaces every ten seconds.
Reply by ●August 13, 20202020-08-13
edward.ming wrote:> John Doe wrote: >> Martin Brown wrote: >> > John Doe wrote: >> >> >> I suppose it's not WiFi in the debit card, but somehow the new >> >> debit card can be sensed by WiFi from the cash machine. >> >> Anybody have and use one yet? I have such a card but haven't >> >> used that feature/function. >> > >> > Contactless RF induction based communication. >> > >> > They have been around in the UK and Europe for ages along with >> > peculiar adverts for them. I never could see why I would ever >> > want to buy one banana whilst on a waterslide but Barclaycard >> > did. URL below - enjoy: >> > >> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WlRcXIO5ik >> > >> > Since it is set in America I had assumed they were common there >> > too. Evidently it is not a metallic pipe. >> >> >> >> You do not insert the card, they say you "tap" it on the >> >> machine. >> > >> > Wave it close enough and the thing powers up from near field >> > radiation >> >> It's not tapping, it's the card being close to the machine? That >> was a technical detail I was curious about. >> >> Must you wave it? :D > > No need to tap or wave, just place it close enough for the > build-in coil for detection and power.So the card has electronic components that are powered similar to a contactless electric toothbrush resting in a charger. --> For us, EV drivers, we use RFID cards almost daily. Most EV > chargers have RFID reader rather than magnetic card reader. I > carry three cards at a minimum. It would be nice if the chargers > can just use credit cards with RFID.
Reply by ●August 13, 20202020-08-13
On Tuesday, August 11, 2020 at 3:58:30 PM UTC-7, John Doe wrote:> Last I heard there have been no known cases of the coronavirus being > transmitted via surfaces.There's a Korean case of passage from a churchgoer at an early service, to another churchgoer hours later, where the only contact was... they sat in the same seat. That's strong evidence of passage of the virus due to surface contact, but only a video recording and a very sparsely infected population can get you that kind of evidence, by accident. It'll not necessary to prove transmission, though, if you can demonstrate surface contamination (which is easy). And that's why it's a no-brainer conclusion that handwashing is important.
Reply by ●August 13, 20202020-08-13
On 13/08/2020 06:22, John Doe wrote:> edward.ming wrote: > >> John Doe wrote: >>> Martin Brown wrote: >>>> John Doe wrote: >>> >>>>> I suppose it's not WiFi in the debit card, but somehow the new >>>>> debit card can be sensed by WiFi from the cash machine. >>>>> Anybody have and use one yet? I have such a card but haven't >>>>> used that feature/function. >>>> >>>> Contactless RF induction based communication. >>>> >>>> They have been around in the UK and Europe for ages along with >>>> peculiar adverts for them. I never could see why I would ever >>>> want to buy one banana whilst on a waterslide but Barclaycard >>>> did. URL below - enjoy: >>>> >>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WlRcXIO5ik >>>> >>>> Since it is set in America I had assumed they were common there >>>> too. Evidently it is not a metallic pipe. >>>>> >>>>> You do not insert the card, they say you "tap" it on the >>>>> machine. >>>> >>>> Wave it close enough and the thing powers up from near field >>>> radiation >>> >>> It's not tapping, it's the card being close to the machine? That >>> was a technical detail I was curious about. >>> >>> Must you wave it? :D >> >> No need to tap or wave, just place it close enough for the >> build-in coil for detection and power. > > So the card has electronic components that are powered similar to a > contactless electric toothbrush resting in a charger.Combined transmit/receive antenna that delivers just enough power to the chip at close range for it to work. If you have an Xray machine or strike an electric arc behind a nice clean white one you can see the internals for yourself. Some paranoid people who object to contactless on principle have determined where to drill into them to disable the antenna. Others of the same tin foil hat brigade put them in overpriced shielded wallets. https://hackaday.com/2014/08/23/disabling-tap-to-pay-debit-cards/ BTW note the date on this URL are the US really 6 years behind on this banking technology compared to the ROW? ISTR you still use magnetic stripes or has that now changed? -- Regards, Martin Brown
Reply by ●August 13, 20202020-08-13
On Thursday, August 13, 2020 at 12:51:01 AM UTC-7, Martin Brown wrote:> On 13/08/2020 06:22, John Doe wrote: > > edward.ming wrote: > > > >> John Doe wrote: > >>> Martin Brown wrote: > >>>> John Doe wrote: > >>> > >>>>> I suppose it's not WiFi in the debit card, but somehow the new > >>>>> debit card can be sensed by WiFi from the cash machine. > >>>>> Anybody have and use one yet? I have such a card but haven't > >>>>> used that feature/function. > >>>> > >>>> Contactless RF induction based communication. > >>>> > >>>> They have been around in the UK and Europe for ages along with > >>>> peculiar adverts for them. I never could see why I would ever > >>>> want to buy one banana whilst on a waterslide but Barclaycard > >>>> did. URL below - enjoy: > >>>> > >>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WlRcXIO5ik > >>>> > >>>> Since it is set in America I had assumed they were common there > >>>> too. Evidently it is not a metallic pipe. > >>>>> > >>>>> You do not insert the card, they say you "tap" it on the > >>>>> machine. > >>>> > >>>> Wave it close enough and the thing powers up from near field > >>>> radiation > >>> > >>> It's not tapping, it's the card being close to the machine? That > >>> was a technical detail I was curious about. > >>> > >>> Must you wave it? :D > >> > >> No need to tap or wave, just place it close enough for the > >> build-in coil for detection and power. > > > > So the card has electronic components that are powered similar to a > > contactless electric toothbrush resting in a charger. > > Combined transmit/receive antenna that delivers just enough power to the > chip at close range for it to work. > > If you have an Xray machine or strike an electric arc behind a nice > clean white one you can see the internals for yourself. > > Some paranoid people who object to contactless on principle have > determined where to drill into them to disable the antenna. Others of > the same tin foil hat brigade put them in overpriced shielded wallets. > > https://hackaday.com/2014/08/23/disabling-tap-to-pay-debit-cards/I, OTOH, would want to combine several antennas into one. The EV charging companies all want us to carry (or advertise) their cards, and the only purpose is to tie to the credit card info already on file. Hopefully, they can just accept the RFID from the credit card.> BTW note the date on this URL are the US really 6 years behind on this > banking technology compared to the ROW? > ISTR you still use magnetic stripes or has that now changed?Yes, we, the US, are defenders of old technologies. Many readers still use magnetic stripes.
Reply by ●August 13, 20202020-08-13
On 2020-08-13 12:58, edward.ming.lee@gmail.com wrote:> On Thursday, August 13, 2020 at 12:51:01 AM UTC-7, Martin Brown > wrote: >> On 13/08/2020 06:22, John Doe wrote: >>> edward.ming wrote: >>> >>>> John Doe wrote: >>>>> Martin Brown wrote: >>>>>> John Doe wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>> I suppose it's not WiFi in the debit card, but somehow >>>>>>> the new debit card can be sensed by WiFi from the cash >>>>>>> machine. Anybody have and use one yet? I have such a card >>>>>>> but haven't used that feature/function. >>>>>> >>>>>> Contactless RF induction based communication. >>>>>> >>>>>> They have been around in the UK and Europe for ages along >>>>>> with peculiar adverts for them. I never could see why I >>>>>> would ever want to buy one banana whilst on a waterslide >>>>>> but Barclaycard did. URL below - enjoy: >>>>>> >>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WlRcXIO5ik >>>>>> >>>>>> Since it is set in America I had assumed they were common >>>>>> there too. Evidently it is not a metallic pipe. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You do not insert the card, they say you "tap" it on the >>>>>>> machine. >>>>>> >>>>>> Wave it close enough and the thing powers up from near >>>>>> field radiation >>>>> >>>>> It's not tapping, it's the card being close to the machine? >>>>> That was a technical detail I was curious about. >>>>> >>>>> Must you wave it? :D >>>> >>>> No need to tap or wave, just place it close enough for the >>>> build-in coil for detection and power. >>> >>> So the card has electronic components that are powered similar to >>> a contactless electric toothbrush resting in a charger. >> >> Combined transmit/receive antenna that delivers just enough power >> to the chip at close range for it to work. >> >> If you have an Xray machine or strike an electric arc behind a >> nice clean white one you can see the internals for yourself. >> >> Some paranoid people who object to contactless on principle have >> determined where to drill into them to disable the antenna. Others >> of the same tin foil hat brigade put them in overpriced shielded >> wallets. >> >> https://hackaday.com/2014/08/23/disabling-tap-to-pay-debit-cards/ > > I, OTOH, would want to combine several antennas into one. The EV > charging companies all want us to carry (or advertise) their cards, > and the only purpose is to tie to the credit card info already on > file. Hopefully, they can just accept the RFID from the credit > card. > >> BTW note the date on this URL are the US really 6 years behind on >> this banking technology compared to the ROW? ISTR you still use >> magnetic stripes or has that now changed? > > Yes, we, the US, are defenders of old technologies. Many readers > still use magnetic stripes. >IIRC the banks got the consumer protection legislation loosened for chip cards, so although chip cards help them, they're a net minus for me, except for being able to use them in the rest of the world. Cheers Phil Hobbs -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 http://electrooptical.net http://hobbs-eo.com
Reply by ●August 13, 20202020-08-13
On 13/08/2020 19:43, Phil Hobbs wrote:> On 2020-08-13 12:58, edward.ming.lee@gmail.com wrote:>> Yes, we, the US, are defenders of old technologies. Many readers >> still use magnetic stripes. > > IIRC the banks got the consumer protection legislation loosened for chip > cards, so although chip cards help them, they're a net minus for me, > except for being able to use them in the rest of the world.How so? They are intrinsically more secure devices. There are a couple of very technical hacks possible but if they actually should happen to you there is an excellent UK expert witness available to demolish anything the banks might try on. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-19559124 -- Regards, Martin Brown
Reply by ●August 13, 20202020-08-13
On 2020-08-13 16:24, Martin Brown wrote:> On 13/08/2020 19:43, Phil Hobbs wrote: >> On 2020-08-13 12:58, edward.ming.lee@gmail.com wrote: > >>> Yes, we, the US, are defenders of old technologies. Many readers >>> still use magnetic stripes. >> >> IIRC the banks got the consumer protection legislation loosened for >> chip cards, so although chip cards help them, they're a net minus for >> me, except for being able to use them in the rest of the world. > > How so? They are intrinsically more secure devices. > > There are a couple of very technical hacks possible but if they actually > should happen to you there is an excellent UK expert witness available > to demolish anything the banks might try on. > > https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-19559124 > >I know they're more secure, but the insecurity of the mag stripes is the banks' worry, not the cardholders', whose liability is limited to $50 no matter what. I forget the details, but that legal protection has been significantly eroded for users of chip cards. So it's entirely rational for US cardholders to prefer mag stripe cards unless they need to buy gas in Europe. Cheers Phil Hobbs -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 http://electrooptical.net http://hobbs-eo.com
