On 7/23/2020 1:40 PM, John Larkin wrote:> On Thu, 23 Jul 2020 12:53:57 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote: > >> On 7/23/2020 12:31 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >>> On Thu, 23 Jul 2020 12:00:45 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote: >>> >>>> On 7/23/2020 11:37 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >>>>> On Thu, 23 Jul 2020 11:14:20 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On 7/23/2020 9:58 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >>>>>>> On Thu, 23 Jul 2020 00:37:09 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 7/22/2020 10:01 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >>>>>>>>> On Wed, 22 Jul 2020 19:18:54 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 7/22/2020 5:23 PM, John Larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 22 Jul 2020 12:24:10 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/22/2020 10:21 AM, George Herold wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, July 21, 2020 at 6:51:49 PM UTC-4, Matt B wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I need to make a 24V to 500-1000V, 20W adjustable power supply for a pulser. It needs to be a floating or negative converter. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> My specs are: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Input: 24-28V >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Output voltage: 500-1000V adjustable via control signal >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Output current: 10mA @ 500V (5W), 20mA @ 1000V (20W) >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've been reading through threads on different HV designs. So far the only one I've come across that is isolated is Figure 50 of LT Application Note 29 (https://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/application-notes/an29f.pdf). It is specified for 1000V, 5W so not beefy enough. The transformer is also obsolete, but this comment mentions potential replacements. https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.electronics.design/F120QpxWWkc/74ljdPZ_BQAJ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> There's also this design (https://www.edn.com/1-kv-power-supply-produces-a-continuous-arc/) that is 1kV, 20W. I just don't know enough about making it adjustable and isolated. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thoughts on how to proceed? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> If you are going to try building it yourself, then I'd start with the >>>>>>>>>>>>> 500V 5 mA one first. I built my first flyback with the LT3083, >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> (2018... thread here >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=&hl=en#!searchin/sci.electronics.design/my$20first$20flyback%7Csort:date/sci.electronics.design/FQAIY1VaYBY/mLvGKJC2AgAJ >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Good luck. Oh buying a ready made HV supply would be a good thing. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Gives you something to compare to if/when you have problems putting >>>>>>>>>>>>> to whole system together. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> George H. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Yep. OP did not like that I disparaged/was skeptical of his plan to >>>>>>>>>>>> build a 20 watt 1000 volt converter out of the gate but it strikes me as >>>>>>>>>>>> a certain kind of madness as a first project if OP has not designed and >>>>>>>>>>>> built a flyback of any type before. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Just different numbers. Shouldn't be really hard. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The Thor rocket was just sort of a scaled-up kerosene burning V2: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYrrVHPur2Y> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> OK, my bad. It would be really hard for you. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Mooom, Mr. Larkin's trying to peer pressure me again. He say he's bad! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Peer? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Sometimes I find the best way to, say, get a friend a second opinion on >>>>>> her car accident situation on the social media for example. Look at the >>>>>> pictures. Say "Sigh, yep, looks like $6000 worth of damage to me. Maybe >>>>>> $7000. I think they're probably going to rule that a total loss.." >>>>>> >>>>>> then you wait a little bit. And another man (almost always a man) will >>>>>> come around and say "Nah idiot. That's no more than $3000 in damage. >>>>>> Actually I worked for the insurance industry for 8 years and DO know >>>>>> what I'm talking about, unlike you." >>>>>> >>>>>> "No way that's not a total loss." >>>>>> >>>>>> "Oh I beg to differ!" >>>>>> >>>>>> "There is definitely, no way, that you could provide an itemized >>>>>> assessment of all the damage to that car and what you believe the repair >>>>>> costs should be and have that on my friend's desk by tomorrow morning." >>>>>> >>>>>> "PFft! I could do it in my sleep." "Oh yeah?" "Yeah, punk." "OK. Well >>>>>> get on it." "Right. I'll show you." >>>>>> >>>>>> I am studying managerial techniques >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> If your contribution to an electronic design forum is to tell >>>>> obviously intelligent people that they shouldn't try to design >>>>> electronics, management is your destiny. You can write long memos just >>>>> like the blather above. >>>>> >>>>> A 1KV, 20 watt flyback wouldn't be difficult, except to people who are >>>>> afraid to do it. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> Pfft. No way you could design him a circuit like that by the weekend. >>>> You ain't got the guts! >>> >>> I do HV flybacks all the time. I've posted several here. I'll sim and >>> build another one this week if my customer can decide what he really >>> needs. >> >> I'm not entirely convinced OP knows what he needs either, charging up a >> 5uF cap bank to 1kV for a piezo driver? sure love to know what the >> application is. >> >>> Any decent analog designer could Spice this in an houror two; I could >>> do it in 20 minutes, but I'm familiar with the part. All of the LT3083 >>> boosts and flybacks that I've simulated have worked as expected. My >>> only problem has been inductor heating, which won't be an issue here >>> with the recommended transformer. >>> >>> If he wants to scribble or Spice a circuit, I offered to help. I'm >>> sure MPS would help too. >>> >>> You wouldn't try it, would you? Do it. Post it. >>> >>> >> >> Not particularly, as you say you're the man for the job. I'm just >> providing suitable encouragement. Can't wait to see it up and running on >> a sheet of copper clad and your measurements on it - it's going to be great! > > OK, you're not MAN enough to approach a thousand volts. Even in > simulation. You might get shocked and frightened and stuff. Post > Traumatic Spice Disorder.Lol> If I do the HV pulser for this customer, I will certainly post pics. > I've posted lots of such things before. > > https://www.dropbox.com/sh/xvpt3fe4plq26nf/AADeGU747QNvKbcQVxU6a0vTa?dl=0 > > (The best are proprietary) > >Well I hope you get compensated for your labor fairly. GL
24V to 500-1000V, 20W floating DC-DC converter
Started by ●July 21, 2020
Reply by ●July 23, 20202020-07-23
Reply by ●July 23, 20202020-07-23
This is the only company we have approved for high quality copper wire, specifically for SELV rated systems: https://www.elektrisola.com/home.html
Reply by ●July 23, 20202020-07-23
On Thursday, July 23, 2020 at 1:14:32 PM UTC-4, Matt B wrote:> On Thursday, July 23, 2020 at 11:31:26 AM UTC-5, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: > > Any decent analog designer could Spice this in an houror two; I could > > do it in 20 minutes, but I'm familiar with the part. All of the LT3083 > > boosts and flybacks that I've simulated have worked as expected. My > > only problem has been inductor heating, which won't be an issue here > > with the recommended transformer. > > > > If he wants to scribble or Spice a circuit, I offered to help. I'm > > sure MPS would help too. > > I'll be taking you up on that offer. Hopefully I can get around to the design this weekend.Awesome! I hope you'll share whatever pieces of the design here that you can. A few milliamps at 1kV can be used for lots of things. (I'm a flyback tadpole.. so just lurking. :^) George H.> > > On Thursday, July 23, 2020 at 11:54:02 AM UTC-5, bitrex wrote: > > I'm not entirely convinced OP knows what he needs either, charging up a > > 5uF cap bank to 1kV for a piezo driver? sure love to know what the > > application is. > > Fortunately I do know what I need. Your assumptions, insinuations and trolling throughout this thread is unwarranted. You are focused entirely too much on the bypass capacitors. The necessary information is that I have a load that needs 20W at 1000V.
Reply by ●July 23, 20202020-07-23
On Thu, 23 Jul 2020 15:19:28 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:>On 7/23/2020 1:14 PM, Matt B wrote: >> On Thursday, July 23, 2020 at 11:31:26 AM UTC-5, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >>> Any decent analog designer could Spice this in an houror two; I could >>> do it in 20 minutes, but I'm familiar with the part. All of the LT3083 >>> boosts and flybacks that I've simulated have worked as expected. My >>> only problem has been inductor heating, which won't be an issue here >>> with the recommended transformer. >>> >>> If he wants to scribble or Spice a circuit, I offered to help. I'm >>> sure MPS would help too. >> >> I'll be taking you up on that offer. Hopefully I can get around to the design this weekend. >> >> >> On Thursday, July 23, 2020 at 11:54:02 AM UTC-5, bitrex wrote: >>> I'm not entirely convinced OP knows what he needs either, charging up a >>> 5uF cap bank to 1kV for a piezo driver? sure love to know what the >>> application is. >> >> Fortunately I do know what I need. Your assumptions, insinuations and trolling throughout this thread is unwarranted. You are focused entirely too much on the bypass capacitors. The necessary information is that I have a load that needs 20W at 1000V. >> > >Look pal, if you want to learn about flyback converters, fine. If you >know exactly what you need and want it designed and built to your >precise spec consider hiring an engineer to do it. Or go to a Burger >King if you just want to give orders. > >Screening out arrogant asses who don't even understand the (hazardous!) >circuits they're posting but want to play with even bigger toys is 100% >good policy. If someone else wants to take you on for free I'm 100% >happy for them to do that. > >He's sure not going to hire you. You are afraid of electricity. That's OK. Lots of people are afraid of electricity.
Reply by ●July 23, 20202020-07-23
On Thu, 23 Jul 2020 15:21:27 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:>On 7/23/2020 1:40 PM, John Larkin wrote: >> On Thu, 23 Jul 2020 12:53:57 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote: >> >>> On 7/23/2020 12:31 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >>>> On Thu, 23 Jul 2020 12:00:45 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 7/23/2020 11:37 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >>>>>> On Thu, 23 Jul 2020 11:14:20 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 7/23/2020 9:58 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >>>>>>>> On Thu, 23 Jul 2020 00:37:09 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 7/22/2020 10:01 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 22 Jul 2020 19:18:54 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 7/22/2020 5:23 PM, John Larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 22 Jul 2020 12:24:10 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/22/2020 10:21 AM, George Herold wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, July 21, 2020 at 6:51:49 PM UTC-4, Matt B wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I need to make a 24V to 500-1000V, 20W adjustable power supply for a pulser. It needs to be a floating or negative converter. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My specs are: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Input: 24-28V >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Output voltage: 500-1000V adjustable via control signal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Output current: 10mA @ 500V (5W), 20mA @ 1000V (20W) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've been reading through threads on different HV designs. So far the only one I've come across that is isolated is Figure 50 of LT Application Note 29 (https://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/application-notes/an29f.pdf). It is specified for 1000V, 5W so not beefy enough. The transformer is also obsolete, but this comment mentions potential replacements. https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.electronics.design/F120QpxWWkc/74ljdPZ_BQAJ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There's also this design (https://www.edn.com/1-kv-power-supply-produces-a-continuous-arc/) that is 1kV, 20W. I just don't know enough about making it adjustable and isolated. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thoughts on how to proceed? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you are going to try building it yourself, then I'd start with the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 500V 5 mA one first. I built my first flyback with the LT3083, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> (2018... thread here >>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=&hl=en#!searchin/sci.electronics.design/my$20first$20flyback%7Csort:date/sci.electronics.design/FQAIY1VaYBY/mLvGKJC2AgAJ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good luck. Oh buying a ready made HV supply would be a good thing. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gives you something to compare to if/when you have problems putting >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to whole system together. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> George H. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Yep. OP did not like that I disparaged/was skeptical of his plan to >>>>>>>>>>>>> build a 20 watt 1000 volt converter out of the gate but it strikes me as >>>>>>>>>>>>> a certain kind of madness as a first project if OP has not designed and >>>>>>>>>>>>> built a flyback of any type before. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Just different numbers. Shouldn't be really hard. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The Thor rocket was just sort of a scaled-up kerosene burning V2: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYrrVHPur2Y> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> OK, my bad. It would be really hard for you. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Mooom, Mr. Larkin's trying to peer pressure me again. He say he's bad! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Peer? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sometimes I find the best way to, say, get a friend a second opinion on >>>>>>> her car accident situation on the social media for example. Look at the >>>>>>> pictures. Say "Sigh, yep, looks like $6000 worth of damage to me. Maybe >>>>>>> $7000. I think they're probably going to rule that a total loss.." >>>>>>> >>>>>>> then you wait a little bit. And another man (almost always a man) will >>>>>>> come around and say "Nah idiot. That's no more than $3000 in damage. >>>>>>> Actually I worked for the insurance industry for 8 years and DO know >>>>>>> what I'm talking about, unlike you." >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "No way that's not a total loss." >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "Oh I beg to differ!" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "There is definitely, no way, that you could provide an itemized >>>>>>> assessment of all the damage to that car and what you believe the repair >>>>>>> costs should be and have that on my friend's desk by tomorrow morning." >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "PFft! I could do it in my sleep." "Oh yeah?" "Yeah, punk." "OK. Well >>>>>>> get on it." "Right. I'll show you." >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I am studying managerial techniques >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> If your contribution to an electronic design forum is to tell >>>>>> obviously intelligent people that they shouldn't try to design >>>>>> electronics, management is your destiny. You can write long memos just >>>>>> like the blather above. >>>>>> >>>>>> A 1KV, 20 watt flyback wouldn't be difficult, except to people who are >>>>>> afraid to do it. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Pfft. No way you could design him a circuit like that by the weekend. >>>>> You ain't got the guts! >>>> >>>> I do HV flybacks all the time. I've posted several here. I'll sim and >>>> build another one this week if my customer can decide what he really >>>> needs. >>> >>> I'm not entirely convinced OP knows what he needs either, charging up a >>> 5uF cap bank to 1kV for a piezo driver? sure love to know what the >>> application is. >>> >>>> Any decent analog designer could Spice this in an houror two; I could >>>> do it in 20 minutes, but I'm familiar with the part. All of the LT3083 >>>> boosts and flybacks that I've simulated have worked as expected. My >>>> only problem has been inductor heating, which won't be an issue here >>>> with the recommended transformer. >>>> >>>> If he wants to scribble or Spice a circuit, I offered to help. I'm >>>> sure MPS would help too. >>>> >>>> You wouldn't try it, would you? Do it. Post it. >>>> >>>> >>> >>> Not particularly, as you say you're the man for the job. I'm just >>> providing suitable encouragement. Can't wait to see it up and running on >>> a sheet of copper clad and your measurements on it - it's going to be great! >> >> OK, you're not MAN enough to approach a thousand volts. Even in >> simulation. You might get shocked and frightened and stuff. Post >> Traumatic Spice Disorder. > >Lol > >> If I do the HV pulser for this customer, I will certainly post pics. >> I've posted lots of such things before. >> >> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/xvpt3fe4plq26nf/AADeGU747QNvKbcQVxU6a0vTa?dl=0 >> >> (The best are proprietary) >> >> > >Well I hope you get compensated for your labor fairly. GLLess than half the things that we design and build turn out to be profitable. We bet too often on the success of our customers. And sometimes on their honesty. A minority of the projects pay the bills. Almost all are fun and educational. So the trick to survival is to design a lot of stuff fast. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc Science teaches us to doubt. Claude Bernard
Reply by ●July 23, 20202020-07-23
On Friday, July 24, 2020 at 11:55:04 AM UTC+10, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:> On Thu, 23 Jul 2020 15:21:27 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote: > > >On 7/23/2020 1:40 PM, John Larkin wrote: > >> On Thu, 23 Jul 2020 12:53:57 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote: > >> > >>> On 7/23/2020 12:31 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: > >>>> On Thu, 23 Jul 2020 12:00:45 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> On 7/23/2020 11:37 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: > >>>>>> On Thu, 23 Jul 2020 11:14:20 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> On 7/23/2020 9:58 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: > >>>>>>>> On Thu, 23 Jul 2020 00:37:09 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> On 7/22/2020 10:01 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 22 Jul 2020 19:18:54 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> On 7/22/2020 5:23 PM, John Larkin wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 22 Jul 2020 12:24:10 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/22/2020 10:21 AM, George Herold wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, July 21, 2020 at 6:51:49 PM UTC-4, Matt B wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I need to make a 24V to 500-1000V, 20W adjustable power supply for a pulser. It needs to be a floating or negative converter. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My specs are: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Input: 24-28V > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Output voltage: 500-1000V adjustable via control signal > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Output current: 10mA @ 500V (5W), 20mA @ 1000V (20W) > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've been reading through threads on different HV designs. So far the only one I've come across that is isolated is Figure 50 of LT Application Note 29 (https://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/application-notes/an29f.pdf). It is specified for 1000V, 5W so not beefy enough. The transformer is also obsolete, but this comment mentions potential replacements. https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.electronics.design/F120QpxWWkc/74ljdPZ_BQAJ > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There's also this design (https://www.edn.com/1-kv-power-supply-produces-a-continuous-arc/) that is 1kV, 20W. I just don't know enough about making it adjustable and isolated. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thoughts on how to proceed? > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you are going to try building it yourself, then I'd start with the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 500V 5 mA one first. I built my first flyback with the LT3083, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> (2018... thread here > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=&hl=en#!searchin/sci.electronics.design/my$20first$20flyback%7Csort:date/sci.electronics.design/FQAIY1VaYBY/mLvGKJC2AgAJ > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good luck. Oh buying a ready made HV supply would be a good thing. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gives you something to compare to if/when you have problems putting > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to whole system together. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> George H. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Yep. OP did not like that I disparaged/was skeptical of his plan to > >>>>>>>>>>>>> build a 20 watt 1000 volt converter out of the gate but it strikes me as > >>>>>>>>>>>>> a certain kind of madness as a first project if OP has not designed and > >>>>>>>>>>>>> built a flyback of any type before. > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Just different numbers. Shouldn't be really hard. > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> The Thor rocket was just sort of a scaled-up kerosene burning V2: > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYrrVHPur2Y> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> OK, my bad. It would be really hard for you. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Mooom, Mr. Larkin's trying to peer pressure me again. He say he's bad! > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Peer? > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Sometimes I find the best way to, say, get a friend a second opinion on > >>>>>>> her car accident situation on the social media for example. Look at the > >>>>>>> pictures. Say "Sigh, yep, looks like $6000 worth of damage to me. Maybe > >>>>>>> $7000. I think they're probably going to rule that a total loss.." > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> then you wait a little bit. And another man (almost always a man) will > >>>>>>> come around and say "Nah idiot. That's no more than $3000 in damage. > >>>>>>> Actually I worked for the insurance industry for 8 years and DO know > >>>>>>> what I'm talking about, unlike you." > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> "No way that's not a total loss." > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> "Oh I beg to differ!" > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> "There is definitely, no way, that you could provide an itemized > >>>>>>> assessment of all the damage to that car and what you believe the repair > >>>>>>> costs should be and have that on my friend's desk by tomorrow morning." > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> "PFft! I could do it in my sleep." "Oh yeah?" "Yeah, punk." "OK. Well > >>>>>>> get on it." "Right. I'll show you." > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I am studying managerial techniques > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> If your contribution to an electronic design forum is to tell > >>>>>> obviously intelligent people that they shouldn't try to design > >>>>>> electronics, management is your destiny. You can write long memos just > >>>>>> like the blather above. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> A 1KV, 20 watt flyback wouldn't be difficult, except to people who are > >>>>>> afraid to do it. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Pfft. No way you could design him a circuit like that by the weekend. > >>>>> You ain't got the guts! > >>>> > >>>> I do HV flybacks all the time. I've posted several here. I'll sim and > >>>> build another one this week if my customer can decide what he really > >>>> needs. > >>> > >>> I'm not entirely convinced OP knows what he needs either, charging up a > >>> 5uF cap bank to 1kV for a piezo driver? sure love to know what the > >>> application is. > >>> > >>>> Any decent analog designer could Spice this in an houror two; I could > >>>> do it in 20 minutes, but I'm familiar with the part. All of the LT3083 > >>>> boosts and flybacks that I've simulated have worked as expected. My > >>>> only problem has been inductor heating, which won't be an issue here > >>>> with the recommended transformer. > >>>> > >>>> If he wants to scribble or Spice a circuit, I offered to help. I'm > >>>> sure MPS would help too. > >>>> > >>>> You wouldn't try it, would you? Do it. Post it. > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> Not particularly, as you say you're the man for the job. I'm just > >>> providing suitable encouragement. Can't wait to see it up and running on > >>> a sheet of copper clad and your measurements on it - it's going to be great! > >> > >> OK, you're not MAN enough to approach a thousand volts. Even in > >> simulation. You might get shocked and frightened and stuff. Post > >> Traumatic Spice Disorder. > > > >Lol > > > >> If I do the HV pulser for this customer, I will certainly post pics. > >> I've posted lots of such things before. > >> > >> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/xvpt3fe4plq26nf/AADeGU747QNvKbcQVxU6a0vTa?dl=0 > >> > >> (The best are proprietary) > >> > >> > > > >Well I hope you get compensated for your labor fairly. GL > > Less than half the things that we design and build turn out to be > profitable. We bet too often on the success of our customers. And > sometimes on their honesty. > > A minority of the projects pay the bills. Almost all are fun and > educational. So the trick to survival is to design a lot of stuff > fast.It's one approach. In evolution, it is called the low investment, high volume, strategy. If you design less stuff, and take long enough over it to do it well, you can survive on a different basis. The people I worked were selling complicated solutions to difficult problem, and if you didn't do it well, the product didn't work and couldn't be sold. -- Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply by ●July 23, 20202020-07-23
On 7/23/2020 9:54 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:> On Thu, 23 Jul 2020 15:21:27 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote: > >> On 7/23/2020 1:40 PM, John Larkin wrote: >>> On Thu, 23 Jul 2020 12:53:57 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote: >>> >>>> On 7/23/2020 12:31 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >>>>> On Thu, 23 Jul 2020 12:00:45 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On 7/23/2020 11:37 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >>>>>>> On Thu, 23 Jul 2020 11:14:20 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 7/23/2020 9:58 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >>>>>>>>> On Thu, 23 Jul 2020 00:37:09 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 7/22/2020 10:01 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 22 Jul 2020 19:18:54 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/22/2020 5:23 PM, John Larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 22 Jul 2020 12:24:10 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/22/2020 10:21 AM, George Herold wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, July 21, 2020 at 6:51:49 PM UTC-4, Matt B wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I need to make a 24V to 500-1000V, 20W adjustable power supply for a pulser. It needs to be a floating or negative converter. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My specs are: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Input: 24-28V >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Output voltage: 500-1000V adjustable via control signal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Output current: 10mA @ 500V (5W), 20mA @ 1000V (20W) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've been reading through threads on different HV designs. So far the only one I've come across that is isolated is Figure 50 of LT Application Note 29 (https://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/application-notes/an29f.pdf). It is specified for 1000V, 5W so not beefy enough. The transformer is also obsolete, but this comment mentions potential replacements. https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.electronics.design/F120QpxWWkc/74ljdPZ_BQAJ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There's also this design (https://www.edn.com/1-kv-power-supply-produces-a-continuous-arc/) that is 1kV, 20W. I just don't know enough about making it adjustable and isolated. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thoughts on how to proceed? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you are going to try building it yourself, then I'd start with the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 500V 5 mA one first. I built my first flyback with the LT3083, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (2018... thread here >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=&hl=en#!searchin/sci.electronics.design/my$20first$20flyback%7Csort:date/sci.electronics.design/FQAIY1VaYBY/mLvGKJC2AgAJ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good luck. Oh buying a ready made HV supply would be a good thing. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gives you something to compare to if/when you have problems putting >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to whole system together. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George H. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yep. OP did not like that I disparaged/was skeptical of his plan to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> build a 20 watt 1000 volt converter out of the gate but it strikes me as >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a certain kind of madness as a first project if OP has not designed and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> built a flyback of any type before. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Just different numbers. Shouldn't be really hard. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> The Thor rocket was just sort of a scaled-up kerosene burning V2: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYrrVHPur2Y> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> OK, my bad. It would be really hard for you. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Mooom, Mr. Larkin's trying to peer pressure me again. He say he's bad! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Peer? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sometimes I find the best way to, say, get a friend a second opinion on >>>>>>>> her car accident situation on the social media for example. Look at the >>>>>>>> pictures. Say "Sigh, yep, looks like $6000 worth of damage to me. Maybe >>>>>>>> $7000. I think they're probably going to rule that a total loss.." >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> then you wait a little bit. And another man (almost always a man) will >>>>>>>> come around and say "Nah idiot. That's no more than $3000 in damage. >>>>>>>> Actually I worked for the insurance industry for 8 years and DO know >>>>>>>> what I'm talking about, unlike you." >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> "No way that's not a total loss." >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> "Oh I beg to differ!" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> "There is definitely, no way, that you could provide an itemized >>>>>>>> assessment of all the damage to that car and what you believe the repair >>>>>>>> costs should be and have that on my friend's desk by tomorrow morning." >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> "PFft! I could do it in my sleep." "Oh yeah?" "Yeah, punk." "OK. Well >>>>>>>> get on it." "Right. I'll show you." >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I am studying managerial techniques >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If your contribution to an electronic design forum is to tell >>>>>>> obviously intelligent people that they shouldn't try to design >>>>>>> electronics, management is your destiny. You can write long memos just >>>>>>> like the blather above. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> A 1KV, 20 watt flyback wouldn't be difficult, except to people who are >>>>>>> afraid to do it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Pfft. No way you could design him a circuit like that by the weekend. >>>>>> You ain't got the guts! >>>>> >>>>> I do HV flybacks all the time. I've posted several here. I'll sim and >>>>> build another one this week if my customer can decide what he really >>>>> needs. >>>> >>>> I'm not entirely convinced OP knows what he needs either, charging up a >>>> 5uF cap bank to 1kV for a piezo driver? sure love to know what the >>>> application is. >>>> >>>>> Any decent analog designer could Spice this in an houror two; I could >>>>> do it in 20 minutes, but I'm familiar with the part. All of the LT3083 >>>>> boosts and flybacks that I've simulated have worked as expected. My >>>>> only problem has been inductor heating, which won't be an issue here >>>>> with the recommended transformer. >>>>> >>>>> If he wants to scribble or Spice a circuit, I offered to help. I'm >>>>> sure MPS would help too. >>>>> >>>>> You wouldn't try it, would you? Do it. Post it. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> Not particularly, as you say you're the man for the job. I'm just >>>> providing suitable encouragement. Can't wait to see it up and running on >>>> a sheet of copper clad and your measurements on it - it's going to be great! >>> >>> OK, you're not MAN enough to approach a thousand volts. Even in >>> simulation. You might get shocked and frightened and stuff. Post >>> Traumatic Spice Disorder. >> >> Lol >> >>> If I do the HV pulser for this customer, I will certainly post pics. >>> I've posted lots of such things before. >>> >>> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/xvpt3fe4plq26nf/AADeGU747QNvKbcQVxU6a0vTa?dl=0 >>> >>> (The best are proprietary) >>> >>> >> >> Well I hope you get compensated for your labor fairly. GL > > Less than half the things that we design and build turn out to be > profitable. We bet too often on the success of our customers. And > sometimes on their honesty.When my gut tells me a potential client isn't being straight up with me I push back on them, as above, and ask questions. If and when they get pissy at my skepticism that tends to tells me all I need to know, which is that at minimum, I don't want them as my client. From experience it also tends to mean they don't pay their bills on time. You've watched "Shark Tank" and actually read Trump's book, right? There actually is a bit of decent advice in there.> A minority of the projects pay the bills. Almost all are fun and > educational. So the trick to survival is to design a lot of stuff > fast. > >
Reply by ●July 24, 20202020-07-24
On a sunny day (Thu, 23 Jul 2020 08:37:36 -0700) it happened jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in <37bjhftbjdbtlm8uelm5jqlci6p5jrht7u@4ax.com>:>A 1KV, 20 watt flyback wouldn't be difficult, except to people who are >afraid to do it.You could probably re-purpose an old CRT transistor color TV or monitor: 1.5 mA at 25kV is 37.5 W. Remove HV coil from EI transformer. Remove scan coils, those are about 440Vpp IIRC?? Use that winding, 1 x voltage doubling, 2 diodes. Designing and building from junk box is fun I once triggered a BU208 from an UJT to generate H scan and HV. Play around a bit.
Reply by ●July 24, 20202020-07-24
On a sunny day (Thu, 23 Jul 2020 11:38:47 -0700) it happened John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in <53mjhflf6tdbcmff4ctlcts6tdsoqh93t2@4ax.com>:>On Thu, 23 Jul 2020 10:14:28 -0700 (PDT), Matt B ><matt.blessinger@gmail.com> wrote: > >>On Thursday, July 23, 2020 at 11:31:26 AM UTC-5, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >>> Any decent analog designer could Spice this in an houror two; I could >>> do it in 20 minutes, but I'm familiar with the part. All of the LT3083 >>> boosts and flybacks that I've simulated have worked as expected. My >>> only problem has been inductor heating, which won't be an issue here >>> with the recommended transformer. >>> >>> If he wants to scribble or Spice a circuit, I offered to help. I'm >>> sure MPS would help too. >> >>I'll be taking you up on that offer. Hopefully I can get around to the design this weekend. > > >Cool. Group designs are fun. We rarely do that here. > >You'll need a model of the transformer, magnetizing and leakage >inductance and maybe some capacitances. Those are easy to approximate. >Yes 1 volt per turn For 24V DC in 24 turns primary Flyback voltage about 5 x 24 say 100V for simple-city. So secundary for 1000V is 10 x 24 = 240 turns. Look up wire diameter for currents. Look up EI core for 30 W or so. Use 16 kHz or a bit higher for switching frequency. Transistor, flyback diode, MVB? pulse witdth feedback for stabilization for example. Spice? I use lost of Chili :-)
Reply by ●July 24, 20202020-07-24
I made this some time ago, https://www.seventransistorlabs.com/Images/DCDC_800V.jpg UC3843 based flyback, very much a stock circuit, with an RCD snubber added to the transistor I think. 12V input, but 24V is fine too, with a UC3842 and a couple component values changed. Interesting part is the transformer, which has this windup, https://www.seventransistorlabs.com/Images/DCDC_800V_FoilWindup.jpg 3 layers of copper foil tape primary, with the secondary interleaved between layers 1-2 and 2-3. Each secondary is 15 turns 28AWG. They are wired in series, with the CT used as a ground point, and the rectifiers being complementary. Thus, effectively the output is (up to) +/-400V. Core is EE33, slightly gapped. (Hmm, weird, I thought those cores were closer to 1uH/t^2 ungapped. Did that particular one just happen to overperform?..) Way overkill for this power level (under 50W) but I have a bunch of them on hand. :) This module grounds the negative, so a positive output is obtained and a feedback divider can be used to regulate. (The divider is adjustable for a 100-800V range.) For isolated application, the feedback divider has to be secondary side only and a TL431 used for error amp, into an opto, in the usual way. It should probably be powered by an aux winding, say 10V (about one turn?) so you don't have to draw several mA from the full HV to run it. The balanced secondary design is essentially mandatory for an isolated converter. This cancels out most of the EMI; rather than 400V of delta V across the isolation barrier, there's only ~40V due to the primary's still unbalanced voltage. This could be improved further by adding shields, at some expense to leakage inductance. I don't know where you would find such a transformer off-the-shelf. They're not hard to wind if you just need a few, or you could ask someone like Xfmrs to make them. The interleaving, and balanced design where possible, are critical to performance, and having sane EMI. And by "sane" I mean, if the secondary is unbalanced, you'll literally be running a low amplitude EFT generator or some bullshit like that. Futile to filter. And you probably don't want too much filtering impedance so as to keep it reasonably well isolated at AC too..? Tim -- Seven Transistor Labs, LLC Electrical Engineering Consultation and Design Website: https://www.seventransistorlabs.com/ "Matt B" <matt.blessinger@gmail.com> wrote in message news:ce1d66d4-3a89-45f2-b03e-d45f5fd00d39o@googlegroups.com... I need to make a 24V to 500-1000V, 20W adjustable power supply for a pulser. It needs to be a floating or negative converter. My specs are: Input: 24-28V Output voltage: 500-1000V adjustable via control signal Output current: 10mA @ 500V (5W), 20mA @ 1000V (20W) I've been reading through threads on different HV designs. So far the only one I've come across that is isolated is Figure 50 of LT Application Note 29 (https://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/application-notes/an29f.pdf). It is specified for 1000V, 5W so not beefy enough. The transformer is also obsolete, but this comment mentions potential replacements. https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.electronics.design/F120QpxWWkc/74ljdPZ_BQAJ There's also this design (https://www.edn.com/1-kv-power-supply-produces-a-continuous-arc/) that is 1kV, 20W. I just don't know enough about making it adjustable and isolated. Thoughts on how to proceed?
