On 7 Oct 2019 18:05:44 -0700, Winfield Hill <winfieldhill@yahoo.com> wrote:>Phil Allison wrote... >> >> Winfield Hill wrote: >> >>> Electrolytic leakage currents must create >>> small carbon pathways, that's not good. >> >> Leakage current with high voltage electros is normal, >> adding " balancing " Rs to a series pair only increase >> it by forcing one cap to a higher voltage. > > Excuse me! Where do you think those currents through > an insulator are coming from? Any forming processes > aside, high-voltage leakage,** over-voltage, or over > anodization, which we're talking about, involves series > current pathways, carbon formation, corrosion, oxygen > loss, and eventually, failure. The currents increase > exponentially with modest over-voltage.That is precisely the charm of wet aluminum caps. The series string optimizes itself for minimum possible leakage current. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc lunatic fringe electronics
Film capacitor as power-supply filter
Started by ●October 7, 2019
Reply by ●October 7, 20192019-10-07
Reply by ●October 9, 20192019-10-09
On Tuesday, 8 October 2019 01:13:35 UTC+1, Phil Allison wrote:> bloggs.fre...@gmail.com wrote: > > ------------------------------- > > > > > Look at the ripple voltage and verify that your film can take the > > ripple current. > > ** Absurd advice. > > Then there is the turn-on time of the circuit. Does this Heath Kit have a lot of tubes in it, or what kind of electronic does it have. The old tube circuit DC supplies would overshoot at turn-on until the tube filaments warmed up and the tubes started conducting, drawing down the rail voltage. > > ** Funny how rectifier tubes have long warm up times too. > > > Until then, the applied DC voltage rail would be way high, like 150% nominal. > > > ** Whata pile of fucking crap !!! > > Even with silicon diodes in the PSU, the voltage excess is never more than 15% - something electros ARE rated for FFS. > > > And this could last for tens of seconds. > > ** No it wouldn't. > > > The electrolytics are designed to handle this temporary overvoltage, usually spec'd for 30 seconds, the film definitely are not. > > ** More complete bullshit . > > Film caps have plenty of overvoltage capacity, most do not break down until double or triple DC voltage is applied. > > Go away you alarmist IDIOT !!! > > > .... PhilSecondary power lines in valve gear are often effectively dividers, using a series R to drop a lot of the main PSU voltage. Caps filtering those often see way more V during warm up if the rectifier conducts before the other valves, often more than +50%. NT
Reply by ●October 9, 20192019-10-09
On Tuesday, 8 October 2019 02:05:56 UTC+1, Winfield Hill wrote:> Phil Allison wrote... > > Winfield Hill wrote: > > > >> Electrolytic leakage currents must create > >> small carbon pathways, that's not good. > > > > Leakage current with high voltage electros is normal, > > adding " balancing " Rs to a series pair only increase > > it by forcing one cap to a higher voltage. > > Excuse me! Where do you think those currents through > an insulator are coming from? Any forming processes > aside, high-voltage leakage,** over-voltage, or over > anodization, which we're talking about, involves series > current pathways, carbon formation, corrosion, oxygen > loss, and eventually, failure. The currents increase > exponentially with modest over-voltage. Proper usage > is spelled out in the Guideline for use of aluminium > electrolytic capacitors, DIN 45811, and elsewhere. > > ** Low-voltage applications don't use series capacitors.Leakage is a normal part of electrolytic operation. NT
Reply by ●October 9, 20192019-10-09
tabbypurr@gmail.com wrote...> > On 8 October 2019, Winfield Hill wrote: >> Phil Allison wrote... >>> Winfield Hill wrote: >>> >>>> Electrolytic leakage currents must create >>>> small carbon pathways, that's not good. >>> >>> Leakage current with high voltage electros is normal, >>> adding " balancing " Rs to a series pair only increase >>> it by forcing one cap to a higher voltage. >> >> Excuse me! Where do you think those currents through >> an insulator are coming from? Any forming processes >> aside, high-voltage leakage,** over-voltage, or over >> anodization, which we're talking about, involves series >> current pathways, carbon formation, corrosion, oxygen >> loss, and eventually, failure. The currents increase >> exponentially with modest over-voltage. Proper usage >> is spelled out in the Guideline for use of aluminium >> electrolytic capacitors, DIN 45811, and elsewhere. >> >> ** Low-voltage applications don't use series capacitors. > > Leakage is a normal part of electrolytic operation.I understand the normal leakage. But excess leakage one sees after over anodization, etc., high leakage that only gets worse with time, that's got to be part of a failure process. Once the formed oxide layer has been thoroughly penetrated, new processes can take place ... -- Thanks, - Win
Reply by ●October 9, 20192019-10-09
On Wednesday, 9 October 2019 19:25:08 UTC+1, Winfield Hill wrote:> tabbypurr wrote... > > On 8 October 2019, Winfield Hill wrote: > >> Phil Allison wrote... > >>> Winfield Hill wrote: > >>> > >>>> Electrolytic leakage currents must create > >>>> small carbon pathways, that's not good. > >>> > >>> Leakage current with high voltage electros is normal, > >>> adding " balancing " Rs to a series pair only increase > >>> it by forcing one cap to a higher voltage. > >> > >> Excuse me! Where do you think those currents through > >> an insulator are coming from? Any forming processes > >> aside, high-voltage leakage,** over-voltage, or over > >> anodization, which we're talking about, involves series > >> current pathways, carbon formation, corrosion, oxygen > >> loss, and eventually, failure. The currents increase > >> exponentially with modest over-voltage. Proper usage > >> is spelled out in the Guideline for use of aluminium > >> electrolytic capacitors, DIN 45811, and elsewhere. > >> > >> ** Low-voltage applications don't use series capacitors. > > > > Leakage is a normal part of electrolytic operation. > > I understand the normal leakage. But excess leakage one > sees after over anodization, etc., high leakage that only > gets worse with time, that's got to be part of a failure > process. Once the formed oxide layer has been thoroughly > penetrated, new processes can take place ...Leakage current going high & the cap reforming at power-on is not always failure or imminent failure. NT
Reply by ●October 9, 20192019-10-09
tabb...@gmail.com wrote: -----------------------> > > Secondary power lines in valve gear are often effectively dividers, using a series R to drop a lot of the main PSU voltage. Caps filtering those often see way more V during warm up if the rectifier conducts before the other valves, often more than +50%. >** The alarmist, idiot OP posted " way high, like 150% nominal" . In any case, tube devices must be OK to run with some or all tubes removed. In 50 years of working on such gear, I have never seen or heard of one that was not. Eg Fender instrument amps have all electros after the main PSU filter rated for 500V continuous. .... Phil
Reply by ●October 9, 20192019-10-09
On Wednesday, 9 October 2019 21:29:12 UTC+1, Phil Allison wrote:> tabbypurr wrote: > ----------------------- > > > > > > Secondary power lines in valve gear are often effectively dividers, using a series R to drop a lot of the main PSU voltage. Caps filtering those often see way more V during warm up if the rectifier conducts before the other valves, often more than +50%. > > > > ** The alarmist, idiot OP posted " way high, like 150% nominal" . > > In any case, tube devices must be OK to run with some or all tubes removed. > > In 50 years of working on such gear, I have never seen or heard of one that was not. > > Eg > > Fender instrument amps have all electros after the main PSU filter rated for 500V continuous. > > > .... PhilYes. Your point?
Reply by ●October 9, 20192019-10-09
Winfield Hill the Desperate Bullshitter wrote:> > > > > > > Leakage is a normal part of electrolytic operation. > > I understand the normal leakage. But excess leakage one > sees after over anodization, etc., >** That sudden crashing sound you just heard was Win throwing the context right out the door - so he could bring in a new and improved one. Gotta admire his blatant subterfuge. ..... Phil
Reply by ●October 9, 20192019-10-09
Some Criminal Nut case called tabb...@gmail.com wrote: ----------------------------------------------------> > Yes. Your point?** Obvious to anyone who is not a trolling mental defective. FOAD .... Phil
Reply by ●October 9, 20192019-10-09
On Wednesday, 9 October 2019 22:46:25 UTC+1, Phil Allison wrote:> Some Criminal Nut case called tabby wrote: > ---------------------------------------------------- > > > > > Yes. Your point? > > > ** Obvious to anyone who is not a trolling mental defective. > > FOADIt's obvious you had nothing to add.
